Maltron 3D for gaming (rollover)? Kinesis Contoured function Keys?

[treigle]

1. Has anyone gamed much on a Maltron 3d, and were there any rollover or other major issues? In particular, [Qwerty] IJKL as arrows combined with triggers on the left hand, like ZXCV or ASDF or whatever.

Jim66's pictures inside a Maltron (thanks!) do not seem to show diodes for the key-switches, and I assume current USB Maltron's have 2-KRO as well, though the matrix makes a huge difference.

I don't really intend to buy a $600 board for gaming, but I figure a Maltron modded to ghetto reds would be an excellent all around board if one can game reasonably on it.....

2. I consider the rubber function keys on the Kinesis a deal-breaker, as I use them quite frequently. Am I being too harsh/unreasonable?

Thanks!

[sordna]

1. Has anyone gamed much on a Maltron 3d, and were there any rollover or other major issues? In particular, [Qwerty] IJKL as arrows combined with triggers on the left hand, like ZXCV or ASDF or whatever.

I tried an old Maltron briefly, and found out that some keys sent multiple scan codes and couldn't be remapped. So the behavior of the keyboard was a bit weird for me.
 

2. I consider the rubber function keys on the Kinesis a deal-breaker, as I use them quite frequently. Am I being too harsh/unreasonable?

It depends. Are you ok with using the 2nd layer? What I'm doing on the Kinesis is I have mapped my "keypad layer" number row to function keys. So to push F5 I hold down my special keypad shift key (or footswitch) and hit number 5. Just like you do in the KBC Poker. This way I don't need to use the rubber function keys at all.

[boli]

2. I consider the rubber function keys on the Kinesis a deal-breaker, as I use them quite frequently. Am I being too harsh/unreasonable?

Hard to say as it's highly subjective. The rubber F# keys are easily the worst thing about a Kinesis Advantage. Personally I like the rest of the keyboard so much that I learned to live with the F# keys. I do use them occasionally: some F# keys for Exposé, F5/F6/... for debugging in Eclipse, F9 to F11 to change volume, and (Ctrl+)F12 to sleep/restart/shutdown the computer. They do work well enough, but are just not pleasant to use, unlike the other keys.

As for a Maltron keyboard: how intriguing! Ever since my first matrix keyboard (a TypeMatrix which I eventually returned and got a Kinesis instead) I'm fascinated by matrix keyboards, the Maltron in particular, because I feel it's the precursor of all others. The reason I went with an Advantage rather than a Maltron were price, no remappability in firmware, location of OS key (pinky, ugh), weird number row (in Q90 layout) (which is funny because I found out it's not weird at all, I actually prefer it once I remapped my Kinesis that way). Anyway, long story short: to this day I'd like to spend some time with a Maltron keyboard. It doesn't help that an e-friend who has both prefers the Maltron.

As for reds: I do love my Advantage with Cherry reds (and o-rings) for work (coding), everyday stuff like mails etc. as well as gaming, so I'd think a Maltron with reds would be very nice.

[Lanx]

f keys of kinesis are so nasty, if i had the time, modding my kinesis of those aweful rubber keys would be step one (i'd mod it on my spare kinesis since it's my daily driver).

[sordna]

Lanx, why don't you add a couple of keys like I did, to easily access the Keypad layer. Then you can map your number row to be F-keys in that layer. See my how to add keys to your Kinesis wiki.

[treigle]

Thanks everyone!

It depends. Are you ok with using the 2nd layer? What I'm doing on the Kinesis is I have mapped my "keypad layer" number row to function keys. So to push F5 I hold down my special keypad shift key (or footswitch) and hit number 5. Just like you do in the KBC Poker. This way I don't need to use the rubber function keys at all.

That's a pretty awesome mod you did to your Kinesis, Sordna!

I don't think I'd be happy relying on a footswitch, but a mod like yours might be an option....

As for a Maltron keyboard: how intriguing! Ever since my first matrix keyboard (a TypeMatrix which I eventually returned and got a Kinesis instead) I'm fascinated by matrix keyboards, the Maltron in particular, because I feel it's the precursor of all others. The reason I went with an Advantage rather than a Maltron were price, no remappability in firmware, location of OS key (pinky, ugh), weird number row (in Q90 layout) (which is funny because I found out it's not weird at all, I actually prefer it once I remapped my Kinesis that way). Anyway, long story short: to this day I'd like to spend some time with a Maltron keyboard. It doesn't help that an e-friend who has both prefers the Maltron.

As for reds: I do love my Advantage with Cherry reds (and o-rings) for work (coding), everyday stuff like mails etc. as well as gaming, so I'd think a Maltron with reds would be very nice.

My recent experience with a Sun tenkeyless board reminded me just how nice it is to have uniform profile, completely interchangeable keycaps, as well as dedicated media keys. These two features got me thinking more about the Maltron, which has both.....

Still, 375£ is way more than I really want to spend on a board, especially without NKRO and "requiring" a mod to ghetto reds. I love red switches.

f keys of kinesis are so nasty, if i had the time, modding my kinesis of those aweful rubber keys would be step one (i'd mod it on my spare kinesis since it's my daily driver).

If the Kinesis's function keys operate predictably with a light touch, and just lack that orgasmic feeling of Cherry switches, I'm OK with that, but it sounds like they're nastier than the Honey Badger.....

[sordna]

This is how my keyboard looks like currently, with 6 extra keys:

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 40212[/ATTACH]

I am really happy with the way it turned out. The only problem is that my other Kinesises feel lacking now, I will have to mod them as well.
You can see from the label this is an LF (red switches), which I agree are awesome. The mod to put switches under the shifts is pretty easy and only took me 2 hours; converting a maltron to ghetto reds would take much longer.
BTW, the Kinesis Advantage uses diodes and is 6KRO.

[boli]

My recent experience with a Sun tenkeyless board reminded me just how nice it is to have uniform profile, completely interchangeable keycaps, as well as dedicated media keys. These two features got me thinking more about the Maltron, which has both.....

I understand that uniform profile key caps are nice for rearranging them to a different layout, but I can't help wondering if row-adjusted profiles aren't more comfortable? What do you think?

BTW the Kinesis allows you to configure for each F# key individually whether you want to use it as F# key or multimedia key (there's also F7 and F8 that can be used for Browser and Email keys; I have never used those).

• F3 Previous track
  
• F4 Play, Pause
  
• F5 Next track
  
• F9 Mute
  
• F10 Volume down
  
• F11 Volume up
  
• Pause Stop
  

At home I use all of the multimedia features rather than the F# keys; however at work I only use F9 to F11 for volume control, because the F# keys are needed when debugging in Eclipse.

If the Kinesis's function keys operate predictably with a light touch, and just lack that orgasmic feeling of Cherry switches, I'm OK with that, but it sounds like they're nastier than the Honey Badger.....

The F# keys aren't hard to press, the unpleasant thing about them is that they are wobbly and tilt if not pressed carefully. The key press registers even when they tilt, but it feels weird.

[sordna]

Cool, I never payed attention to that section in the manual. I just tried it, hit =F10 and =F11 and can now touch-type my volume control (got F10 mapped to the 0 and F11 to the - keys in my num row).

[treigle]

I understand that uniform profile key caps are nice for rearranging them to a different layout, but I can't help wondering if row-adjusted profiles aren't more comfortable? What do you think?

An overall curve is absolutely more comfortable than a flat board, but this is provided by the curved steel backplate of a Model M or Sun type 7. This is better than doing it with keycaps, as the keypress vectors are adjusted as well as the profile, with the aforementioned ability to rearrange keys nicely.

On the Maltron, it looks as though the keys may be spaced a bit further apart than is optimal, in order to accommodate the keys canting inward towards each other on the curved case. This may be what Kinesis was trying to address when they designed differing key profiles for their Contoured boards, or that may simply address limitations on flexure of the PCBs...

[PCDMaltron]

Hi all, we've actually had a brief discussion over here at Maltron HQ in the UK about gaming keyboards. It is very interesting to read your bloggs. Our assumption was that as the primary purpose of the Maltron range is to support disabled individuals or those suffereing with RSI, carpal tunnel etc, we assumed that using one for gaming needs wouldn't be necessary.

As we hand produce all our keyboards, we are always keen to hear suggestions and thoughts about improvements. Currently, a new model is being created which will be programable. Should it be of interest, we do offer rental trials on our keyboards, however, as stated, as of this moment, we have solely been looking at the disabled / SEN / anti-RSI or carpal tunnel recovery market.

Cheers,

Adam
Marketing chap at Maltron UK

[treigle]

First of all, it's awesome to have feedback directly from Maltron. Thanks Adam!

I feel that something like the Dual-Hand 3D keyboard that you guy pioneered should become the standard for keyboarding in general, thereby preventing many cases of RSI from even starting, and providing a more comfortable typing experience.

I ended up going for a Kinesis for it's 6 key rollover (for occasional gaming) and because I couldn't hire a Maltron to test (I'm in the US).

I would like to make 3 points for your consideration:

1. The programmability you mention is a huge benefit. Most of us keyboard enthusiasts are very particular about layout, and will remap with software or in hardware to get our preferred layout. Doing this in hardware is way better than in software, as the layout is retained while interacting with firmware, installing a new OS, or moving the keyboard between computers. I didn't realize how great this feature is until I tried it on the Kinesis.

2. For those of us into gaming, 6 key rollover is important.

3. Many of us ergo-enthusiasts are partial to Cherry brown/red switches, and find the black switches a bit too stiff. I suspect that the black switches used in Maltrons feel nicer mounted to the blow-molded chassis than the ones I've tried, but I still think that offering brown or red switches is probably critical to capturing the enthusiast market.

Thanks again!

[hoggy]

Hi all, we've actually had a brief discussion over here at Maltron HQ in the UK about gaming keyboards. It is very interesting to read your bloggs. Our assumption was that as the primary purpose of the Maltron range is to support disabled individuals or those suffereing with RSI, carpal tunnel etc, we assumed that using one for gaming needs wouldn't be necessary.

As we hand produce all our keyboards, we are always keen to hear suggestions and thoughts about improvements. Currently, a new model is being created which will be programable. Should it be of interest, we do offer rental trials on our keyboards, however, as stated, as of this moment, we have solely been looking at the disabled / SEN / anti-RSI or carpal tunnel recovery market.

Cheers,

Adam
Marketing chap at Maltron UK

Hi Adam,

Sweet!  Would the controller for this model be compatible with a J89?

[edit]
I'd be happy to test drive the new model when it's available.  I'd pay for the hire of course.