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Author Topic: 45g or 55g 87u?  (Read 3576 times)

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Offline MKB

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  • Posts: 73
45g or 55g 87u?
« on: Sat, 18 February 2012, 00:12:36 »
I am considering the 87u.  I am wondering whether to go 45g or 55g.  Leaning towards the 55g currently.
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Leopold Tenkeyless (Cherry Clears)
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IBM Model F (Buckling Spring)
IBM Model M (Buckling Spring)
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Offline limmy

  • Posts: 352
45g or 55g 87u?
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 18 February 2012, 00:34:11 »
The rubber domes harden after some time and as a result increase force required to actuate keys.

My 5-year-old-used-daily HHKB requires 60g-70g in order to actuate, whereas like-new-2-year old HHKB requires 50g-55g to actuate. I swapped rubber domes between the two HHKB and confirmed that rubber dome is the reason for the increased actuation force.

45g may feel too light in the beginning, but I would recommend it due to the reason mentioned above.
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Offline kinkng

  • Posts: 54
45g or 55g 87u?
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 18 February 2012, 11:13:42 »
Coming from buckling springs. I initially thought that I would like the 55g better. Now that I have gotten used to Topres (I have 55g, 45g and variable versions), I think I now prefer the lighter weight one (45g uniform or variable). However, this probably comes down to individual perferences.  

Quote from: MKB;517594
I am considering the 87u.  I am wondering whether to go 45g or 55g.  Leaning towards the 55g currently.
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Offline RiGS

  • Posts: 1594
45g or 55g 87u?
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 18 February 2012, 15:15:03 »
I liked my variable better than the all 55g.
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Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline RiGS

  • Posts: 1594
45g or 55g 87u?
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 18 February 2012, 15:17:03 »
Quote from: limmy;517600
The rubber domes harden after some time and as a result increase force required to actuate keys.

My 5-year-old-used-daily HHKB requires 60g-70g in order to actuate, whereas like-new-2-year old HHKB requires 50g-55g to actuate. I swapped rubber domes between the two HHKB and confirmed that rubber dome is the reason for the increased actuation force.

45g may feel too light in the beginning, but I would recommend it due to the reason mentioned above.

That's weird. To me worn rubber domes feel lighter, and more linear as the domes lose their tactile properties.
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Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline MKB

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 73
45g or 55g 87u?
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 18 February 2012, 23:09:52 »
Buckling spring is by far my favorite but there is no 87 key.  That is why I was thinking 55g.  But now I am leaning towards 45g.
« Last Edit: Sun, 19 February 2012, 02:45:07 by MKB »
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________________________________
Current:

Leopold Tenkeyless (Cherry Clears)
Leopold Tenkeyless (Cherry Reds)
Filco Tenkeyless Zero (White Fukkas)
Unicomp SpaceSaver 104 (Buckling Spring)

Past:

IBM Model F (Buckling Spring)
IBM Model M (Buckling Spring)
Northgate (White Alps)
Fujitsu (peerless)
HHKB Pro 2 (Topre)
Deck Legend (Cherry Blacks)
Deck 82 (Cherry Blacks)
Unicomp Customizer 104 (Buckling Spring)

Offline keyboardlover

  • Posts: 4022
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45g or 55g 87u?
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 19 February 2012, 07:58:32 »
I think we need a new poll now that the all-45g's have been out for a while...

Just created one. Vote now!
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Offline limmy

  • Posts: 352
45g or 55g 87u?
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 19 February 2012, 10:06:52 »
Quote from: RiGS;518067
That's weird. To me worn rubber domes feel lighter, and more linear as the domes lose their tactile properties.

My old HHKB has more tactile feedback than my new one.

How much usage did the board get? I heard in KBDMania forum that Topre switches loose tactile feel when heavily used. Maybe five-years of daily use doesn't count as heavy use and maybe if I use it more I would end up with lighter feel.
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Offline RiGS

  • Posts: 1594
45g or 55g 87u?
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 19 February 2012, 11:34:28 »
This one is a more than 20 year old Topre keyboard.
Quote from: 002
They've lost a bit of the crispness that a modern Topre board has so it does feel more...linear in a sense; some keys were a bit mushy.
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Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline keyboardlover

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  • Hey Paul Walker, Click It or Ticket!
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45g or 55g 87u?
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 19 February 2012, 11:45:00 »
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Offline RiGS

  • Posts: 1594
45g or 55g 87u?
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 19 February 2012, 11:46:48 »
Using Nickels is an inaccurate way of measuring the actuation force. See how it's done properly.
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Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline limmy

  • Posts: 352
45g or 55g 87u?
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 19 February 2012, 12:18:07 »
Quote from: RiGS;518733
Using Nickels is an inaccurate way of measuring the actuation force. See how it's done properly.

Are you suggesting use of 8g, 9g coins? I see it may help, but not very convenient when adding subtracting. Or.. you are not serious.. I don't know.

I like to use pennies for more accuracy. They are easier to get and 2 pennies equal one nickel in weight. i.e. one penny = 2.500g http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/?action=coin_specifications

ripster's dithering method only reduces friction hence creates downward bias of the measurement. What you want to measure is force required for the keys to actuate and it should include friction. Any method that would reduce friction by slightly shaking / by measuring in a car with running engine(origin of dithering) / by hitting the desk three times with constant force is biased and not representative unless you type in those situation.
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Offline RiGS

  • Posts: 1594
45g or 55g 87u?
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 19 February 2012, 12:56:50 »
I'm serious. You can basically measure in 1g increments when combining 8g and 9g coins.
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Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline limmy

  • Posts: 352
45g or 55g 87u?
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 19 February 2012, 13:23:39 »
It is not so relevant, but how are you going to create x1g, or x6g? You would need two 8g right?

For accuracy, you may achieve what you want, but it doesn't seem easy to use, especially when you have to add and subtract weights to find out critical weight at which a switch actuates.

Also, instead of looking for 8g, 9g Hungarian coins, I think it would be better to buy a cheap jeweler's scale and make custom weights from whatever material. They only cost 5 bucks on ebay.
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Offline limmy

  • Posts: 352
45g or 55g 87u?
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 19 February 2012, 13:25:12 »
Quote from: RiGS;518796
I'm serious. You can basically measure in 1g increments when combining 8g and 9g coins.


It is not so relevant, but how are you going to create x1g, or x6g? You would need two 8g right?

For accuracy, you may achieve what you want, but it doesn't seem easy to use, especially when you have to add and subtract weights to find out critical weight at which a switch actuates.

Also, instead of looking for 8g, 9g Hungarian coins, I think it would be better to buy a cheap jeweler's scale and make custom weights from whatever material. They only cost 5 bucks on ebay.
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Offline RiGS

  • Posts: 1594
45g or 55g 87u?
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 20 February 2012, 15:15:37 »
Well, I'm in Hungary, so that's not problem for me.
You can create 56g by using seven 8g coins, but you can't create 46g(you need something that weights around 1g for that). 40g would be five 8g coins, so you obviously have to replace one of those with a 9g coin to create 41g. 51g would be 3-3 coins of each.
The whole idea is pretty basic: you need to know the multiplication table for 8 and 9 to find your target value, then just swap a few coins to increase, or decrease it.
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Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011
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