what keyboard should i check out?

[HapticBovinator]

Hi all,
I ended up here after a 5 minute experience with a kbc poker. I really liked it. I have a macbook pro, and i've started to notice the keys feel mushy. So i was hoping someone could reccomend a make and model i should look into based on preferences:

1. I work in a 'nixy environment, and need escape, tilde, and friends to behave as normal in linux with a pc keyboard.
2. I dont care about the layout other than that all keys reachable from home row hand position should be available and behave normally as in a standard us keyboard layout.
3. That means e.g. i need a left and right alt and control.
4. I dont play games.
5. I am open to ergonomic designs if i dont need to relearn key locations.
6. Linux and mac compatibility is a must.
7. I would love to pimp it out with key cap mods, but if possible would like those caps to match the ones on the keyboard already.
8. Portability is a plus.

If i am correct, there is no kbc poker model that will meet my needs. I was thinking about trying another entry-level cherry mx keyboard; possibly with blue switches.

[Aranair]

If you're looking for a 60% like poker, there is another model (KBT Pure) that is very similar to it (except you get escape and tilde and some others) but I'm not sure if it will be easy to find at all
if you go to this link (kbtalking), you'll be able to find the first/second layer keys of that.

Slightly larger with dedicated pgup/pgdown/home/end/arrows, you have KBT Race... (its really only 1 row + 1 column of keys larger than the poker/pure)
(I'm not sure if this model is compatible with mac though, I think it is)

Or like many others, myself included, you could look at HHKB pro 2, super portable but is really an expensive beast lol

[HapticBovinator]

Hmm... i dont know if i have the cheese for a hhkb, i am still in university after all.
Besides, it doesnt have the left and right alt and control keys.
I noticed the poker esc key is a fn key combo, but the tilde / backtick seem to be used as normal. That seems workable (i dont use esc for much).

How do most key caps compare to the poker stock key caps? (In shape)
Does it really feel cheap compared to alternatives?
How is it nkro-wise?

[Aranair]

Don't know much about keys myself (pretty new here) but from reading other's experience, it seems that the stock poker ones are ABS plastic..

My filco TKL is using ABS as well. I think they feel totally fine to me. But supposedly, they get shiny quickly, perhaps in a few weeks of normal use. I won't find that too bothersome though since you can find replacement keys really easily for the poker.. The PBT sets for poker have a rough surface that doesn't wear off so quickly. Its probably down to personal preference eventually and you can always just use this set till it wears off and switch to a set of PBTs?

(I think PBT is more popular here in GH though )
 
No idea about nkro.

[vurt]

Honestly, I would say a Leopold Tenkeyless model with your switch of choice might fit your need. It's not as portable as the Poker, but I think its the smallest you can get w/o buying a HHKB or something that is really hard to track down [i.e. the Pure/Race], or a Noppoo Choc Mini. Additionally, the price is right at $89 right now over on EliteKeyboards.com over a Filco TKL [which probably runs about $140+ retail]. This keyboard uses the same Cherry-style stabilizers as the Poker, so they keyfeel should be relatively similar one would think. The Leo does come with ABS caps...but ABS caps aren't that terrible. WASDKeyboards.com sells full sets of either blank or laser-etched keys which should stand the test of time better than a Filco or Leo key, and they are reasonably priced to boot. I guess it really comes down to how much money you want to spend. Also...check the classifieds frequently! There are always plenty of deals happening there as well! Good luck in your search!!

Edit - Upon further investigation [as now I'm considering the Choc Mini] I guess it doesn't work under MacOS, according to this thread:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:13825&page=10&do=comments
However, they seem to work fine under UNIX. Also, I'm fairly certain that the Poker keycaps are about the same size as any typical Cherry MX keycap.

[HapticBovinator]

Hmm,

Thanks for the advice, I have some things to think about. I may spring for the white Leopold tenkeyless with cherry blues; from what I can tell it would suit my needs pretty well; there are only two problems:

1. Which keycaps to get? I would love to go all out hipster pixel punk... but the main concern is I *need* real nibs on F and J, which apparently the Leopolds don't have. (Not a concern for the keyboard itself--whatever make I buy, I'd want to change the caps anyways)

2. How to convince my wife I need a $89 keyboard =) After all, I am in university right now and she is the breadwinner lol

[vurt]

As far as keycaps are concerned, I would tell you to not waste your money, unless you were to invest in a simple set of engraved PBT caps. If you feel like being Korean, spend the money I guess lol. You can buy nubs for the keys, go check ripsters wiki entry in the "All about keys" wiki. As far as your wife goes...now that you're browsing geekhack...an $89 keyboard is probably the least of her worries.

[sth]

As far as your wife goes...now that you're browsing geekhack...an $89 keyboard is probably the least of her worries.

QFT. I've probably spent $400 on keyboard **** in the last few weeks. It's disgusting. I may pick up a poker too if the RACE GB takes too long to ship out, just because.  I could have just bought a hhkb type S by now...

[vurt]

This forum probably deserves an entry in the Physicians Desk Reference...lol

Edit: GET THE POKER!!!!!

[AeneaS]

You might wanna look into the CM Storm Quickfire Rapid w/MX Blues.
Tankeyless, same quality as filco, + I think it is cheaper than any of the suggested boards

[sth]

Oh and OP: Leopold if you have aesthetic sensibilities. CMStorm QF Rapid if you like the uglier things in life, but the white Leopold tenkeyless is only like $10 more.

[HapticBovinator]

As far as keycaps are concerned, I would tell you to not waste your money, unless you were to invest in a simple set of engraved PBT caps. If you feel like being Korean, spend the money I guess lol. You can buy nubs for the keys, go check ripsters wiki entry in the "All about keys" wiki. As far as your wife goes...now that you're browsing geekhack...an $89 keyboard is probably the least of her worries.

Korean, heh! My wife *is* Korean btw. (Recently my sister in law got married to a guy who was a real Korean gamer in a past life, and she was shocked to discover how much time he put into it after the honeymoon, lol.)

I checked out Elite Keyboards and was shocked with ~$36 extra for shipping upon checkout--EGAD!

I know there are a couple of computer stores here in Toronto with cherry mx blue keyboards; I'm not sure about a tenkeyless (or thereabouts) though. At least on the bright side if I like the switches I might as well buy something I really like rather than try to save money. I do have an iPad to sell this week...

[Kamikaze K]

Oh and OP: Leopold if you have aesthetic sensibilities. CMStorm QF Rapid if you like the uglier things in life, but the white Leopold tenkeyless is only like $10 more.

You might also want to add: Leopold=Cherry stabiliser; CM's=Costar.

The CM's are not baaaad.  

[HapticBovinator]

You might also want to add: Leopold=Cherry stabiliser; CM's=Costar.

The CM's are not baaaad.  

Thanks for the heads up. I notice the CM quickkie is $73 at ncix in store in Toronto...but maybe i'll wait to find something used

[HapticBovinator]

Nice cow.

Heh, thanks. I was looking for a nice "touch"

[Kamikaze K]

Thanks for the heads up. I notice the CM quickkie is $73 at ncix in store in Toronto...but maybe i'll wait to find something used

Thats a great price for the CM's!  If you're like me and can get over the branding, it's a fantastic lil'costar stabilised board!  Grab one if you can.

[HapticBovinator]

Thats a great price for the CM's!  If you're like me and can get over the branding, it's a fantastic lil'costar stabilised board!  Grab one if you can.

I was at NCIX in Mississauga today, and Andrew opened the box so I could try it out. I don't know if it was just the unit I tried out, but it seemed the trajectory up the ctrl-shift-caps lock-tab-~-esc keys looked weird, as in not a continuous curve or straight, but crooked, and didn't even seem to match that of the other side from the right control. The left shift looked too high. It looked like the result of choosing keys from different sources that weren't engineered to go together in that configuration.

I could probably get over it, but for a keyboard over $70 it might bother me a little.

[HapticBovinator]

....As far as your wife goes...now that you're browsing geekhack...an $89 keyboard is probably the least of her worries.

Heh, I just took the wife and the little one to check out the feel of the cherry blues on the CM Storm Quickfire (sounds like a male condition which can be addressed with medication lol). Within about 30 seconds, she was completely won over by the mechanical keys. I think she wants a mechanical now, but is torn between the audible click of the blues and the switch without it but still with tactile feedback (I forget the color).

[Kamikaze K]

I could probably get over it, but for a keyboard over $70 it might bother me a little.

Mech's aren't priced the same as rubberdomes... $73 is already fantastic for a mech'board. You're going to be paying around about that at the very least when it comes to mechs.  Of course your wife would love it... What not to love about mech'boards?!  Am I right?? huh? Am I right??

[HapticBovinator]

Mech's aren't priced the same as rubberdomes... $73 is already fantastic for a mech'board. You're going to be paying around about that at the very least when it comes to mechs.  Of course your wife would love it... What not to love about mech'boards?!  Am I right?? huh? Am I right??

It wasn't so much about $70 being too much for a keyboard; it was more that if I am going to commit that much, I might as well make sure I will be truly happy with the decision. E.g. when I got "sponsored" for a macbook pro purchase, I could have had a base model 13 or 15", but went with the 15" antiglare (1650x1080) upgrade, upgraded processor (2.3 ghz core i7 quad), and ditched the optical drive for a second hard drive and picked up a 8gb ram kit. I probably would have bought an ASUS g53 series or something instead, except I have had 2 ASUS psu's crap out on me. I might have got better value for a lenovo or something around christmas, but i didn't want to wait the 10 months. I'm overall happy with the decision, I got a laptop with good build quality (survived a 3' drop to concrete, not too bent decent power and with a gorgeous panel for the price point. There are lots of replacement parts floating around ebay, and I can walk into the store and get e.g. a key changed or something for free in 10 minutes.

So I would be willing to pay more, if it means the product I receive will be higher quality and or more easily serviced.

[HapticBovinator]

One thing holding me back from the Leopold is the reported problems (due to stabilizers?) finding compatible spacebars and such. Some of the doubleshot keys on the latest gb round look cool, but I would hate to buy a board and find out it would be harder to pimp out.

I love the look of the Poker, but the lack of a right Alt is going to kill me. The race looks nice, but I probably couldn't get nice keys for it. The pure isn't ready (right?) and the choc mini isn't mac-friendly. So AFAICT, if I want portability I'll have to stick with a TKL.

If I want to play with keys, e.g. doubleshots, I should pretty much get a filco over a leopold, no? I'd rather not be stuck with stock anything, even the spacebar.

I don't suppose anyone sells TKLs without keys to save a buck or two...

[vurt]

The Cherry stabilizers aren't a "problem", it's just that some people don't like how they feel. You are right about having to stick with a TKL Leopold, Filco, or a HHKB [lol] for portability reasons, but my point is the stabilizer is personal preference. If you buy the keyboard and don't like it, sell it in the classifieds on this site. I'm sure you would have no trouble selling it. Additionally, most people report that it is easier to swap key caps on a board with Cherry stabilizers, and that the Costars are a bit tricky, especially for the novice. My advice...just go with your gut, and if you wind up not liking it, sell it in GH Classifieds. You might have to take a $20 loss, but that's less than having an $80 keyboard you hate.

[HapticBovinator]

Thanks to all those who offered tips and advice. Well I bit the bullet and pulled the trigger on my first mech board.

I found the CM quickie at Canada Computers for $70, and decided to give it a shot. Usually I am either cautious or all in. I wasn't sure how much I'd like the cherry blues long term. I really like them, and although my wife was really satisfied typing on them, she really didn't enjoy it when I was typing on them while conversing with her (yes honey,

My impression of the board is it is pretty good. It is plays well with OS X so far. The play/pause button seems to work with VLC but not Quicktime. The case has a tacky feel to it, the same kind that my Logitech MX518 mouse had before it started peeling off like sunburned skin. (Of course I peeled every molecule of the stuff off my mouse like an old OCD man picking himself on the subway.) I don't mind the logos that much; its more the keys (mostly the multimedia keys) that are a bit garish. Also, the multimedia keys are accessed by pressing and holding the 'Fn' button, then pressing the appropriate Function key (e.g. F5). The problem is that the Fn button is on the right side of the space bar, and the multimedia keys start at F5 going up--both keys in the chord are easily accessed by the right hand, but this arrangement requires reaching over with the left. It came with an USB to PS/2 adapter, a key puller with spare (ugly) wasd keys, and a couple of keys that say "COOLER MASTER"--whatever. The USB cable has (woot.) gold plated connectors. I know this probably does nothing, but at least the cable is thick enough to actually adhere to the USB spec, with the D+/- lines twisted together and all wires shielded from EMF.

Well, I have 14 days to put this puppy through hell before I can't take it back, we'll see how it goes. At $79 taxes in, it deserves a chance, especially when a Leopold tkl from elite keyboards would cost me $135 (thats the $89 white one on sale) after shipping, and the cheapest I could find a Filco tkl was $180 shipped. (CAD is on par with USD.) The Poker or the Race would have been cheaper, but as I have said the Poker doesn't meet my requirement of a right ALT key, and the Race isn't a full size, so I'm not sure my wrists would be happy typing on it all day. Other than that I didn't find anything close to what I wanted (a more or less portable full size keyboard layout) at anything near this price.

But as it stands, my wife wants one, and my son should learn to type soon too, so it may be time to get another...

[Quarzac]

Having been typing on a Cherry G80-3000 for the day, I would definitely recommend you take a look for one of them if you're looking for an affordable board. While they're not terribly portable size-wise, they are quite light in comparison to other mechanical boards, since they don't have the metal mounting plate. You may want to invest in a doubleshot set for it though; I found the laser infilled keys completely unbearable. I snagged mine for around $40. Given, I sunk $75 into green switches so I could throw them in here, but it will probably be totally worth it.

[HapticBovinator]

The only place I lined up a place to purchase a Cherry is Ashlin Electronics. They have the g80-3000 in the warehouse not far from me in Mississauga. The part number they are showing is G80-3000LSCEU-2, the same one from the Cherry datasheet, but the datasheet shows 2 layouts, one ISO and one ANSI!

The color Ashlin has is white, but I'm not sure if this is still a board with MX blues. The datasheet is here.

I'm trying to get a definitive model number from Cherry for the keyboard I want, then I'll try to source it from Ashlin or whoever.

[HapticBovinator]

That is the correct one.

Ordered. I'll pick it up from the warehouse after today, I have graph theory all day.

Sad that I have memorized it.

I have memorized worse, although by accident. Like the Lion King: "Life's not fair, is it? You see I--I shall never be king..."
Or E.T.: "Michael: 'Whats the matter Mom?' Mom: 'He hates Mexico!'"

Did she tip the cow over after she stuck her hand into it?

I believe the cow fell over as it convulsed with pleasure (I would).

I thought they stuck cow magnets into the cow to get the nails and crap out?

Actually, before the practice of fistulating cows (uh, that's *making* the hole, not, er, well you know) veterinarians had to climb in head and shoulders to do a proper prostate exam. Now they can simply insert the arm up to the shoulder to find the prostate.

Makes you wonder if we have created a kind of ecological niche where anteaters or something could live around farms of fistulated cows, and subsist entirely off the gruel they could suck out of the cow fistulas. Like hummingbirds drinking nectar. Maybe a kind of rodent could live inside them. "Get out of my house! Find your own fistula, you freeloaders!"

[HapticBovinator]

I guess this thread is over. However, I commented on a couple of boards I tried out, so I thought it would be nice to sum things up:

I. The Cooler Master Storm Quickfire Rapid

A. What I liked:
1. Tenkeyless size
2. Good build quality
3. Cheap ($79 after taxes on sale)
4. Key puller, good USB cable

B. What I didn't like:
1. Weird branding, logos, and key glyphs, and there seemed to be 3 or 4 different colors/kinds of paint for media key glyphs, normal key glyphs, logos, etc.
2. Heavy
3. Didn't work in OS X Snow Leopard EFI firmware, or in OS after reboot without unplugging and replugging (weird!)
4. Goofy (for me) media key location. Someone I met preferred having both the Fn key on the right, with the Media keys it modified also on the right 8 or so Function keys because it allowed one to press and hold Fn with the thumb and then strike the Media key with the index or middle finger.
5. Related to 4, I didn't like the modifier key layout (I believe it is the same as the Cherry's with the Right Menu swapped for Fn)

II. Cherry G80-3000

A. What I liked:
1. No nonsense operation--worked everywhere, EFI firmware, OS X, Windows, and Linux, all plug and play
2. Nice, light weight--it didn't slide around, but was quite a bit lighter than the CM board above
3. The modifier key layout was standard--LCTRL,LWIN,LALT,SPACE,RALT,RWIN,RMENU,RCTRL

B. What I didn't like:
1. Pricey--cost me ~$120 I believe through Ashlin Electronics
2. Its a 104 key board, which I realize I don't need. It is really difficult to carry in most bags/backpacks, and I couldn't find a suitable bag for a reasonable price. I don't like the increased size since I started using my mouse more.
3. Ugly keys!!!
4. Fugly keys (yes this one deserves 2 mentions) !!
5. Case plastic doesn't have consistent color/sheen and seems low quality (ABS?)
6. Weird construction--soldering looked a little below standard on the board, and jumpers were installed that were longer than required; one had an unhealthy looking kink

Out of the 2 boards above, the Cherry was a closer fit for my needs. Filco boards weren't available from any Canadian retailers when I began this journey. I had simply chalked that up to Canadians doing less gaming than Americans; after all, an igloo is too cold to game in in the winter, and in the summer our hands are cramped and arthritic from all the animal skinning and pelt curing work.

But do to global warming, it seems, NCIX is now stocking Filco! I have one on the way, which will replace my Cherry (which will become my wife's; she loves it and needs a number pad for her animal pelt order tracking spreadsheets). So what did I discover?

1. I love Cherry MX Blue switches but they are too loud to use anywhere but home...my next board will have Browns
2. I don't like 104 key boards...my next board will be a TKL
3. Board size is more important than weight for portability
4. I tried staying away from the Filco price point, but my list of required features brought me there anyway (portable i.e. ~TKL, "normal" modifiers, ANSI, Mac Linux & Windows compatible)

I am glad I tried out a couple of other boards first. Thanks for all the help and recommendations. Whether or not my new Filco TKL will scratch this itch, time will tell...