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Offline dnLL

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asasasas instead of assssss
« on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 12:57:13 »
hi there,

just a quick question, I've seen in a review (don't remember which one, it was on the Steelseries 7G I think) that when pressing two letters at the same time in Windows (for example A and S), it would register ASASASASAS instead of the habitual ASSSSSSS. is this possible? is it hardware or software dependant? if it's OS dependant, can we change that behavior?

when I'm gaming, if I'm pressing two keys like A and S, both keys register simultaneously and both will stay activated until I release the keys. however in Windows, only the last stroke seems to be used.
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Offline asdf

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 13:42:15 »
it's asasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasas*, you're just not pressing them at the same time
*pressed with a $12 rubber dome keyboard (windows 7)
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Offline Soarer

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 13:42:20 »
Sounds like a keyboard with a dodgy NKRO implementation, which may only screw up on certain OS (usually Macs).
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Offline Soarer

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 13:45:12 »
Quote from: asdf;533260
it's asasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasas*, you're just not pressing them at the same time
*pressed with a $12 rubber dome keyboard (windows 7)

Really? I can't be asasased right now to boot into Win7 and try stuff out, but that sounds like a Win7 HID bug :-/
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Offline dnLL

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 13:47:05 »
so it isn't normal and not supposed to be "asasasas". my Leopold does (as all keyboard i've ever tried) "asssss"
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Offline Soarer

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 13:48:50 »
Quote from: Soarer;533263
Really? I can't be asasased right now to boot into Win7 and try stuff out, but that sounds like a Win7 HID bug :-/

He's right ya know, and it happens on XP too. Dunno how I hadn't noticed that before!
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Offline laffindude

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 13:50:27 »
asdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfh < 6 keys pressed at the same time
asdgfasdgfasdgfasdgfasdgfasdgfasdgfasdgfasdgfasdgfasdgfasdgfasdgfasdgfasdgfasdgfasdgfasdgfasdgfasdgfasdgf <5
asdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdf <4
asdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasd <3
asasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasas <2

Win7 Filco. Odd that f and g is swapped. Seems like rt and vb is both swapped too. However, 45 is not swapped.
« Last Edit: Fri, 02 March 2012, 13:57:21 by laffindude »
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Offline ryan92084

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 14:06:05 »
adsgfhadsgfhadsgfhadsgfhadsgfhadsgfhadsgfhadsgfhadsgfhadsgfhadsgfhadsgfhadsgfhadsgfhadsgfhadsgfh

6key hah
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Offline Soarer

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 15:03:54 »
Quote from: ripster;533273
saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

assssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

assssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
asasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasas

Lol.

ahhhhhhhh hahahahaha
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Offline reaper

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 15:04:54 »
That's a lot of asses there.
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 16:03:29 »
asasasasasasasasasasasasas
wdwdwdwdwdwdwdwdwdwd
klklklklklklklklklklklklklklklklklkl
opopopopopopopopopopop
fgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfgfg
vbvbvbvbvbvbvbvbvbvb
4545454545454545454545
< result on Poker Windows 7.
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Offline Awful

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 16:50:02 »
assssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
asssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
asssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
afdsssssssssssssssssssssssssss

I can't get alternating keys to happen Filco on win7
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Offline Soarer

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 17:13:10 »
Quote from: Awful;533402
I can't get alternating keys to happen Filco on win7

Awwwwwww!

Well, it could be prevented by the controller firmware... I'm not sure how they structure the dual mode (PS/2 and USB) stuff... if they queue changes as they would for PS/2, even when outputting to USB, I guess this effect wouldn't happen.

A keyboard might do that anyway, even if not dual mode, but it's unlikely unless they see this as a problem and are specifically trying to fix it.
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Offline alaricljs

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 17:19:17 »
Quote from: Awful;533402
I can't get alternating keys to happen Filco on win7


87 or 104key?  PS/2 or USB... cuz I think you're doing it wrong...

asdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasd   <--- Filco 87key, win7
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Offline Bry

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 18:42:48 »
lolololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololo
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Offline dnLL

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 20:15:46 »
Tkl Leopold for me, ps/2. What's better and why? How can we change that? And why isn't it standard for all keyboards? lol
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Offline kdash4

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 20:49:00 »
asasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasas
assssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
asasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasas
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Offline dnLL

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 22:08:57 »
not really helpful...
how can we get alternate keys??
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Offline alaricljs

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 02 March 2012, 22:44:41 »
Quote from: dnLL;533528
Tkl Leopold for me, ps/2. What's better and why? How can we change that? And why isn't it standard for all keyboards? lol

You need to ask a more complete question.  Personally Filco is better than Leopold, I don't like cherry stabilizers all that much.  I prefer USB because I can hot-plug it and it does everything else I need for a keyboard.

I don't know what it is you want to change, and don't know what it is that isn't standard for all keyboards.

Quote from: dnLL;533604
how can we get alternate keys??

I thought that was already explained.  If you have a USB keyboard plugged into a Windows system you press a combination of keys simultaneously: asdasdasdasdasdasdasdasd  If I hold 1 key and then add another key to it you get: assssss

So um... now that you invoked my pedantry, can we get back to entertaining ourselves with lolololololololololololololo and derpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderp
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Offline Soarer

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 03 March 2012, 06:17:05 »
trolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
trolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
trololololololololololololololololololololololololol
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Offline captain

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 03 March 2012, 06:36:08 »
Well, I was out with Rebecca yesterday on my mobile device (ruinig fora for ripster all across the Interwebz) just Kickin’ in the front seat
Sittin’ in the back seat, when I held down six keys and got:

FRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAYFRIDAY
« Last Edit: Sun, 04 March 2012, 09:27:02 by captain »
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Offline captain

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 03 March 2012, 07:05:35 »
But seriously, isn't this related to the OS's keyboard settings, not the keyboard?  I recall there being a "repeat rate" that can be set in the OS to decipher a held key as a series of key strokes.  What exactly are the semaphores sent down the USB cable?  Is it like MIDI, where you have "note on" and "note off"?  

I may be confused now, as I was under the impression that Cherry MX switches were SPST NO, so as long as you hold the switch down it is in Closed state.  Then the matrix is polled at a certain rate by the controller, and the controller determines whether or not the key is "bouncing" or in a certain state, and "corrects" for that.  Then the controller sends some kind of keycode signal out the USB cable.  We should have teensy manuals.  What does the Teensy do?
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Offline Soarer

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 03 March 2012, 07:49:55 »
A USB keyboard sends the current state of all keys (ignoring the 6KRO limitation, it's not relevant to this) in each packet it sends to the host.

So the host can get a packet with no keys pressed, and the next can have two (or more) pressed.

Then, yes, it's the OS doing the key repeat. I don't think it's part of the HID spec, so I guess there's no real documentation on how it should behave. Clearly though, the intention is to act like a PS/2 keyboard, and repeat the last key pressed.

I'd call it a bug, however minor and irrelevant. The OS has already made a (completely arbitrary) choice of which key to present first, so that choice should also be applied to the key repeat. (After all, PS/2 keyboards make that choice internally, and stick with it for the repeat).

Teensy doesn't do anything - it's all down to the software. My converter has an output queue, mainly to support playing back macros, which means that it will only output one change at a time (except for modifiers, it can change all of them at once in macros). Anyway, different USB keyboards may behave differently in this regard.
« Last Edit: Sat, 03 March 2012, 07:54:10 by Soarer »
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Offline Surly73

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 03 March 2012, 09:46:24 »
Quote from: dnLL;533265
so it isn't normal and not supposed to be "asasasas". my Leopold does (as all keyboard i've ever tried) "asssss"

My NKRO model Filco connected to Win7 via USB (results in 6KRO): asasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasasas
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Offline dnLL

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 03 March 2012, 12:07:54 »
Quote from: Soarer;533839
A USB keyboard sends the current state of all keys (ignoring the 6KRO limitation, it's not relevant to this) in each packet it sends to the host.

So the host can get a packet with no keys pressed, and the next can have two (or more) pressed.

Then, yes, it's the OS doing the key repeat. I don't think it's part of the HID spec, so I guess there's no real documentation on how it should behave. Clearly though, the intention is to act like a PS/2 keyboard, and repeat the last key pressed.

I'd call it a bug, however minor and irrelevant. The OS has already made a (completely arbitrary) choice of which key to present first, so that choice should also be applied to the key repeat. (After all, PS/2 keyboards make that choice internally, and stick with it for the repeat).

Teensy doesn't do anything - it's all down to the software. My converter has an output queue, mainly to support playing back macros, which means that it will only output one change at a time (except for modifiers, it can change all of them at once in macros). Anyway, different USB keyboards may behave differently in this regard.
thank you, finally a constructive input on the subject. so there isn't anything wrong with my Leopold doing "sdddddddddddd", whether pluggued via USB or PS/2.

I just think that most of the time, when typing and pressing two keys, it would be more useful to get alternate keys (or there is no reason to press 2 keys at the same time). still, ingame, you can press 2 keys and it will alternate (well, both keys remain activated). but not when typing in Windows (the 2 keys are probably still activated but Windows just take the last stroke for some reason).
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Offline Soarer

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 03 March 2012, 13:09:07 »
Quote from: dnLL;534001
thank you, finally a constructive input on the subject. so there isn't anything wrong with my Leopold doing "sdddddddddddd", whether pluggued via USB or PS/2.

I just think that most of the time, when typing and pressing two keys, it would be more useful to get alternate keys (or there is no reason to press 2 keys at the same time). still, ingame, you can press 2 keys and it will alternate (well, both keys remain activated). but not when typing in Windows (the 2 keys are probably still activated but Windows just take the last stroke for some reason).

I can be quite useful in between [strike]trolling[/strike] trying to keep ripster honest!

For gaming, I guess it's a plus point to be able to send two changes simultaneously. (There is no key repeat to worry about in that case, anyway). Probably doesn't make a lot of difference though, since 'simultaneously' for a game would be 'in the same frame', which is relatively speaking quite a long time.
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Offline Nunez

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 03 March 2012, 17:45:08 »
lol@thread.
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Offline dnLL

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 04 March 2012, 09:22:36 »
Soarer, if it's OS-dependant, why isn't it the same behavior for everyone using W7? not sure to understand, or it might be my English (I'm French Canadian, just trying to do my best with my English as a 2nd language hehe).
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Offline Soarer

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 04 March 2012, 09:26:50 »
Because it depends on the keyboard as well - if it doesn't ever send two changes at the same time, the quirk in the OS handling won't be revealed.
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Offline dnLL

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #29 on: Sun, 04 March 2012, 13:21:58 »
but some people with the same keyboard/OS are reporting different results. that's a bit weird.
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Offline isp

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 04 March 2012, 18:06:58 »
[video=youtube;oa5z77EI8y0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa5z77EI8y0[/video]
asasassas to asssssssssss
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Offline ryan92084

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 04 March 2012, 19:18:26 »
That movie was ... special
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Offline Soarer

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 04 March 2012, 21:17:25 »
Quote from: ripster;535105
And it's not easy to replicate if you look at my posts.


Not looking at your posts: asasasasasasasasasasasasasas

Looking at your posts: asssssssssssssssssssss

Hey, you're right!
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Offline dnLL

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 04 March 2012, 21:57:06 »
Quote from: ripster;535105
So anyway the McRip effect means that it's not a big deal.  And it's not easy to replicate if you look at my posts.
finally found the right paragraph in that whole thread. wow.
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Offline dnLL

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 04 March 2012, 22:02:02 »
Quote from: ripster;535105
So anyway the McRip effect means that it's not a big deal.  And it's not easy to replicate if you look at my posts.
finally figured out what you were saying after reading the whole thread (just stopped after the first video the first time I saw your thread because tl:dr). that might be my English too, I'm French Canadian and just trying to improve it. in the long run if I keep on posting some threads and answering others on those forums, I will get better ;p
« Last Edit: Sun, 04 March 2012, 22:20:39 by dnLL »
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Offline laffindude

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 05 March 2012, 09:12:01 »
Vertically, they scan bottom to top and has precedence over horizontal. Horizontal is scanned left to right for the most part, but rt/fg/vb are all swapped on my Ninja.
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Offline laffindude

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #36 on: Mon, 05 March 2012, 09:34:49 »
Your timing isn't as good as you claim, you guitar player you. /bassist

The polling rate for USB is claimed to be 1000hz, but I think you're right. There seem to be a separate scanning rate for keys. Perhaps related to debouncing code?
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Offline Lotsofgoats

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 05 March 2012, 11:34:05 »
Interesting... and it works with other keys being used as modifiers, as well. Alternating through autohotkey:

(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)щ(ºДºщ)(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)(س‎ ಥ⌂ಥ)س‎щ(ºДºщ)

As you can see, I like to optimize my work experience.
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Offline eth0s

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #38 on: Mon, 05 March 2012, 12:49:08 »
eqrtwywywywywywywywywywywywywywywywywywywywywywywywywywywywywy

i tried 5.
« Last Edit: Mon, 05 March 2012, 12:57:17 by eth0s »
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Offline dnLL

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #39 on: Mon, 05 March 2012, 13:02:32 »
qwertyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
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Offline laffindude

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #40 on: Mon, 05 March 2012, 13:05:29 »
qwetryqwetryqwetryqwetryqwetryqwetryqwetryqwetryqwetryqwetryqwetryqwetryqwetryqwetryqwetry
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Offline laffindude

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #41 on: Mon, 05 March 2012, 13:10:54 »
nope.
qwetryqwetryqwetryqwetryqwetryqwetryqwetry
asdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfh
zxcbvnzxcbvnzxcbvnzxcbvnzxcbvnzxcbvnzxcbvnzxcbvn
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?28119-asasasas-instead-of-assssss&p=533271&viewfull=1#post533271
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Offline Lotsofgoats

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #42 on: Mon, 05 March 2012, 13:31:39 »
ddddddddddddddddddddreddddddddddddddddddderrrrrrrrrrrrrrrdedededededededededededededededededededededededededeeeeeeeeeeeeeedeeeeeeeeeeeeepeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedrdrdrdrdrdrdrdrdrdrdrdrdrdrdrdrdrdrdrdrdrdrdrdrdrededeerepepepepepepepepepepepepepepepepepepepepepepepepepepepepdeepdededededededededededededededededededededederprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprddedededededededededededededededededederprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprprpdedeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


._. derp
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Offline Soarer

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #43 on: Mon, 05 March 2012, 14:52:07 »
Quote from: Soarer;533839
A USB keyboard sends the current state of all keys (ignoring the 6KRO limitation, it's not relevant to this) in each packet it sends to the host.

So the host can get a packet with no keys pressed, and the next can have two (or more) pressed.

Then, yes, it's the OS doing the key repeat. I don't think it's part of the HID spec, so I guess there's no real documentation on how it should behave. Clearly though, the intention is to act like a PS/2 keyboard, and repeat the last key pressed.

I'd call it a bug, however minor and irrelevant. The OS has already made a (completely arbitrary) choice of which key to present first, so that choice should also be applied to the key repeat. (After all, PS/2 keyboards make that choice internally, and stick with it for the repeat).

Teensy doesn't do anything - it's all down to the software. My converter has an output queue, mainly to support playing back macros, which means that it will only output one change at a time (except for modifiers, it can change all of them at once in macros). Anyway, different USB keyboards may behave differently in this regard.


Quote from: ripster;535665
I wonder if Soarer has figured out yet that KEYBOARD SCIENCE requires experimentation!

Notice that I think the scan sequence and/or matrix location makes a difference here Soarer.

A and H are obviously scanned with different horizontal/vertical grids.  I BELIEVE the Filco controller goes Left to Right.

...

If you are impressed with my KEYBOARD SCIENCE skills...


Well, no. Science involves examining ALL possibilities, not simply espousing the first that appears plausible.

I'll grant you that your theory seems plausible. But only for 6KRO keyboards, or those using a similar HID report layout. NKRO over USB uses a bit per key, and the bit positions are fixed in the report, so matrix scan order will make no difference to the bit positions. Anyway, for 6KRO boot mode...

We know that one packet has no keys, and the next has two (or more) keys. That's a given for this behaviour to be at all feasible.

The HID specification [1] states that there is no defined order that the keys have to conform to. It's even legal to have gaps, e.g. slots 2 and 5 could be used from the 6 to send two codes.

We don't know how the OS examines each packet, i.e. what order it will present the events it finds there. It's a fair assumption that it reads the 6 key slots from beginning to end. But still, one should caution that it is an assumption at this point.

We don't know how each keyboard chooses to fill the packet. Some might well fill it starting from the beginning in matrix-scan order. Others could just as easily do something completely different - it's all down to the software.

As an idiot savant, you've mentioned key debounce. Yet you have no idea just how relevant that is!!



[1] Universal Serial Bus (USB) Device Class Definition for Human Interface Devices (HID), Version 1.11. Appendix F, Section 3, Boot Keyboard Requirements.
« Last Edit: Mon, 05 March 2012, 17:40:59 by Soarer »
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Offline Soarer

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #44 on: Mon, 05 March 2012, 15:02:09 »
Quote from: ripster;536001
Quote from: Soarer
As an idiot savant, you've mentioned key debounce. Yet you have no idea just how relevant that is!!

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
ufffffffffffff
fufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufufu


QFT before you edit.
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Offline laffindude

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #45 on: Mon, 05 March 2012, 15:34:42 »
Quote from: ripster;536003
Gimme some specifics here.....Not able to replicate on my Filco.  And KEYBOARD SCIENCE requires confirmation of results.


rt/fg/vb are all swapped in auto repeat. It's a Filco Ninja 87k built in Aug11. Connected on USB directly to mobo.

I just pulled out my R and it exhibit the same behavior.
qwetryqwetryqwetryqwetryqwetryqwetry
asdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfhasdgfh
zxcbvnzxcbvnzxcbvnzxcbvnzxcbvnzxcbvn
etryetryetryetryetryetryetry
dgfhdgfhdgfhdgfhdgfhdgfh
cbvncbvncbvncbvncbvncbvn
trytrytrytrytrytrytrytrytrytry
gfhgfhgfhgfhgfhgfhgfhgfhgfh
bvnbvnbvnbvnbvnbvnbvnbvn
trtrtrtrtrtrtrtr
gfgfgfgfgfgfgfgf
bvbvbvbvbvbvbv

^From the R 87k. Except this is connected through hub on my monitor.
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 05 March 2012, 17:16:33 »
qwerqwerqwerqwerqwerqwerqwerqwerqwerqwerqwerqwerqwerqwerqwerqwerqwerqwerqwerqwerqwerqwer
asdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdf
jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;jkl;
$%&^$%&^$%&^$%&^$%&^$%&^$%&^$%&^$%&^$%&^$%&^$%&^$%&^$%&^$%&^$%&^
xcvbxcvbcvbcxvbxcvbxcvbxcvbxcvbxcvbxcvbxcvbxcvbxcvbxcvbxcvbxcvbxcvbxcvbxcvbxcvb

I conclude Poker is superior as it consistently behaves as I would expect it to. Well the shifted was out of order for some reason...
Edit: spaces were not there prior to posting.
« Last Edit: Mon, 05 March 2012, 17:19:19 by lysol »
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Offline Awful

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« Reply #47 on: Mon, 05 March 2012, 17:26:12 »
qwefffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

teehee quief.
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I hate everything.

Offline dnLL

  • Thread Starter
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asasasas instead of assssss
« Reply #48 on: Mon, 05 March 2012, 19:59:47 »
why can't I do it? lol
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Offline laffindude

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« Reply #49 on: Tue, 06 March 2012, 07:43:30 »
Quote from: Soarer;535998
Well, no. Science involves examining ALL possibilities, not simply espousing the first that appears plausible.

I'll grant you that your theory seems plausible. But only for 6KRO keyboards, or those using a similar HID report layout. NKRO over USB uses a bit per key, and the bit positions are fixed in the report, so matrix scan order will make no difference to the bit positions. Anyway, for 6KRO boot mode...

We know that one packet has no keys, and the next has two (or more) keys. That's a given for this behaviour to be at all feasible.

The HID specification [1] states that there is no defined order that the keys have to conform to. It's even legal to have gaps, e.g. slots 2 and 5 could be used from the 6 to send two codes.

We don't know how the OS examines each packet, i.e. what order it will present the events it finds there. It's a fair assumption that it reads the 6 key slots from beginning to end. But still, one should caution that it is an assumption at this point.

We don't know how each keyboard chooses to fill the packet. Some might well fill it starting from the beginning in matrix-scan order. Others could just as easily do something completely different - it's all down to the software.

As an idiot savant, you've mentioned key debounce. Yet you have no idea just how relevant that is!!


I think there are 2 separate issue here. 1: what exactly is the keyboard spitting out, 2: how is the OS interpreting it. 1 should be easy to test. USB sniffer should be able to read what's being outputted by the keyboard. May be that'll help better decipher the behavior of the controller. I think we need to figure that out before testing behavior of the OS.
I do agree this is McRip effect territory. Unless you're soarer and other people who have written firmware for controllers, it has almost zero tangible effect on computing.
PS, I am the idiot who mentioned debounce. Just how relevant is it?
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