Author Topic: Apple friendly keyboards (Read 7026 times)

Netdewt · « **on:** Thu, 08 March 2012, 11:34:55 »

At the risk of getting run out of town... what options to the Mac users have for real mechanical keyboards? I know you can use anything interchangeably, but I appreciate having the keys labeled properly. Ideally I'd like a black or white and Cherry MX Brown (Blue might be a little loud).

What I see:
Unicomp Spacesaver M
Matias Tactile Pro 3
Das Keyboard S Pro Mac

I might end up just getting a Leopold Tactile Touch and putting blank RGB keys on Shift Ctl and Alt (I'm a retoucher) and blank Windows keys. That would at least get me half way. If I could blank out the print screen, scroll lock and pause, that's be nice too.

sth · « **Reply #1 on:** Thu, 08 March 2012, 11:42:37 »

I have a Leopold TKL. The only thing that didn't seem to work was the USB cable included but that was sorted out very quickly. I got the blank one. If you really want to emulate a mac board, you can get custom caps from WASD printed with whatever (although your command key will only have st johns arms, no apple).

Also don't forget to swap Command and Option in keyboard.prefPane

One more edit- there are probably more Mac users around here than you might think... although we don't always like to talk about it.

Netdewt · « **Reply #2 on:** Thu, 08 March 2012, 12:01:46 »

Cool! Thanks for the WASD tip!

sth · « **Reply #3 on:** Thu, 08 March 2012, 12:03:25 »

Keep in mind that it's not going to be CHEAP to get custom keys, but for the number you need it wouldn't be outrageous.

Netdewt · « **Reply #4 on:** Thu, 08 March 2012, 12:08:58 »

If nothing else, I could get a set of blanks for $35 and swap out the ones I don't like. WASD also has premade Saint John's Arms keys. I like the simplicity, no need for an Apple logo. My aluminum slim keyboard doesn't have the Apple either (which died, hence why I am looking for something new and more durable).

Did Filco change names? To Leopold? I can't find Filco for sale anywhere.

Fuzzy Dunlop · « **Reply #5 on:** Thu, 08 March 2012, 13:40:39 »

I'm a Mac owner like you, I know there aren't a whole lot of great options. Off the top of my head a few I can think of are:

Deck Legend
WASD keyboards (you can customize proper Apple key caps)
Matias Tactile Pro

Those 3 keyboards have proper Apple key legends. Keep in mind however you can easily remap the Control, Option and Command (Apple) keys by going under System Preferences > Keyboard Modifier Keys. Beyond that, there is a paid ($20) software program called ControllerMate, which is immensely powerful. It will drive pretty well any input device you can plug into your Mac, and remap any key you want for literally any function, both overall and on a per-application basis. I use a Realforce 86UB with my MacBook Pro, and I use ControllerMate to remap the Ctrl/Option/CMD keys, as well as remap print screen/scroll lock/pause to control the volume (pretty well matches the Apple Aluminum keyboard layout). Basically, if you're willing to learn to use ControllerMate, and can live without Mac key legends, you can use any keyboard you want.

sth · « **Reply #6 on:** Thu, 08 March 2012, 13:44:36 »

Thanks for the tip on ControllerMate, I'll have to check that out.

As far as boards that are DEFINITELY not compatible, I know the Choc Mini certainly is not. I forget about the Key Cool but I don't think it is.

Netdewt · « **Reply #7 on:** Thu, 08 March 2012, 13:55:55 »

Does scroll lock even do anything on PCs anymore?

alaricljs · « **Reply #8 on:** Thu, 08 March 2012, 13:59:12 »

In Excel it causes arrow keys to scroll the sheet instead of changing cell selection.

Some KVMs also use it to pull up a menu although that's not really the PC.

That's all I can think of.

sordna · « **Reply #9 on:** Thu, 08 March 2012, 21:40:29 »

Apple friendly? Kinesis Advantage; it has actually 3 OS settings to choose from (PC Windows, PC non-windows, Mac). I use PC non-windows.

Pyrolistical · « **Reply #10 on:** Fri, 09 March 2012, 00:49:42 »

Yeah there was no tenkeyless Mac keyboards out there so I built my own http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=26845

sordna · « **Reply #11 on:** Fri, 09 March 2012, 00:51:48 »

Could you add palm keys to it? Or is the case solid in the palm rest area?

Netdewt · « **Reply #12 on:** Fri, 09 March 2012, 07:26:36 »

How do the buckling spring switches in the Unicomp compare to the Cherry switches? Are they most like Blues? Are they slower? I have been thinking of doing Browns because they are quieter. I enjoy the quick snap and soft landing of the slim mac keyboards, aside from their other design flaws.

What kind of keys would be needed to customize the Unicomp? I kind of want RGB modifiers.

Daniel Beardsmore · « **Reply #13 on:** Fri, 09 March 2012, 15:58:46 »

Don't forget the DSI Modular Mac, Cherry MX brown or blue in a compact tenkeyless. Razer do a Mac BlackWidow, but then you'd get blues.

If you want quiet, the Tactile Pro 3 is not for you, as simplified ALPS type II "Fukka" switches are particularly noisy and really kick up a din, much more so than blues. Buckling spring is even worse, but the retro typewriter clatter is a lot more satisfiying than cheap ALPS ping. Cherry MX brown and buckling spring are pretty much opposite ends of the keystroke force scale, and MX brown and Fukka ALPS pretty much opposite ends of the tactility scale – browns have a gentle background tactile feel, while ALPS can be best described as "jarring", as can Cherry MX blue. The only switch that has the smooth tactile feel of browns and BS but a nice medium weight is Topre (which I must confess I've really come to love now), but I've never seen a Mac Topre keyboard.

Fentek still have blank 1× keycaps for IBM/Lexmark/Unicomp keyboards, but these are the upper half of two part keycaps, and Unicomp keyboards use one-part caps, so you need one two-part keycap stem for each coloured key. Of course, this won't help you if you want coloured modifiers, but you could at least redo some of the 1× keys (maybe things like scroll lock, which is as useless in Windows as it would be on your Macintosh).

The best option of course is to buy an ADB to USB converter and snag an Apple Extended/Extended II – unlike the Tactile Pro 3, they're tactile not clicky and thus significantly quieter. (The Tactile Pro should be called the Clicky Pro, as it was Apple's keyboards that used the tactile switches.)

Netdewt · « **Reply #14 on:** Fri, 09 March 2012, 20:12:09 »

Oh man, I like the old Apple keyboards, but they are so gross and yellowed. If I could find one in black I'd get that! Any recommendation on a ADB/USB converter? Looks like the "iMate" is also a vintage piece.

Netdewt · « **Reply #15 on:** Sat, 10 March 2012, 09:52:04 »

After re reading Daniel's dense post (in a good way), I think Cherry browns are most likely for me. I'd love an old Apple, but I think I'm too vain for one.

The DSI is super nice looking, but it's on the pricey end for me.

If I just swap the Alt and Windows keys on a PC keyboard, will they work right? Or is it the wiring that's swapped?

I still have my eye on the $90 white Leopold TKL, but I really need a full size at home, which is why I started this search. Now I want 2 new keyboards. Also, can lighted keys be pulled out easily?

Or... KBC Poker would be so great for retouching where desk space is at a premium.

Daniel Beardsmore · « **Reply #16 on:** Sat, 10 March 2012, 19:32:48 »

One of the very few mechanicals with an aluminium case, that would (almost) match a Mac, is the WiNDy AlFeel HG. It's cheaper than the DSI Modular Mac and the numpad isn't optional. They do have one with white keys on a silver body the same as the Apple Wired Aluminium but in their photo the metal is too bright and you don't get the nice silver/white contrast; hopefully it's just a bad photograph. I did notice that Apple put an interesting finish on the metal that I've never seen before that may darken it, as anodised aluminium *is* bright. You might need to carefully paint-strip their shameless self-promotion on the front of the AlFeel though.

The DSI Modular Mac looks even more 80s 8-bit retro than FILCOs, and the elephantine Tactile Pro 3 is just a joke compared to Apple's slim metal styling. Trying to find a replacement keyboard that comes even close to Apple's aesthetic quality is virtually impossible now that they've gone all metal. (There are some nice alu scissor keyboards out there, but if you wanted that you'd buy Apple's.)

jellowiggler · « **Reply #17 on:** Sat, 10 March 2012, 19:42:30 »

The black widow boards have Mac versions too.

Netdewt · « **Reply #18 on:** Sat, 10 March 2012, 19:57:28 »

Quote from: Daniel Beardsmore;541736

One of the very few mechanicals with an aluminium case, that would (almost) match a Mac, is the WiNDy AlFeel HG. It's cheaper than the DSI Modular Mac and the numpad isn't optional. They do have one with white keys on a silver body the same as the Apple Wired Aluminium but in their photo the metal is too bright and you don't get the nice silver/white contrast; hopefully it's just a bad photograph. I did notice that Apple put an interesting finish on the metal that I've never seen before that may darken it, as anodised aluminium *is* bright. You might need to carefully paint-strip their shameless self-promotion on the front of the AlFeel though.

I like it! But alas, I cannot read Japanese. I like the alu + black keys. White keys get dirty faster.

Daniel Beardsmore · « **Reply #19 on:** Sat, 10 March 2012, 20:36:52 »

Another way to get a keyboard with the correct key legends (and for less money than the DSI ...)

Someone's borrowing my Apple Wired Alu and yes the white keys went a disgusting yellow in no time.

Oh wait ... WASD do blue, black and red Cherry but not brown? WTF?

Netdewt · « **Reply #20 on:** Sat, 10 March 2012, 20:46:15 »

Yeah, I think they are just out at the moment. But, how do I know which keys will end up where until I have the keyboard? That's my delemma with totally custom. I keep coming back to the Leopold for a full size. So simple looking and $110, and I can customize later.

Thanks for the Razer tip. A little too gamer-y for me. (I'm not a gamer, gasp.)

metafour · « **Reply #21 on:** Sun, 11 March 2012, 11:13:36 »

I use only Macs and have used Leopolds, Filcos and Pokers. Just get some novelty modifiers from the classifieds and swap the command and option keys in the Keyboard pref panel.

Also, check out keyremap4macbook before controllermate. Keyremap is free and you can do lots of stuff with the private.xml file if you don't like the available options.

noog · « **Reply #22 on:** Sun, 11 March 2012, 12:49:41 »

I am using keyremap on my filco and must say it works well.

Ursadon-n-Pals · « **Reply #23 on:** Sun, 11 March 2012, 17:31:38 »

I don't know about other keyboards but even though mac keyboards don't have a Delete, Home, Page Up, Page Down, End key, those keys on the Noppoo choc mini work on a mac as long as you so that daisy chain adapter thing. I tried a friend's Noppoo Choc Mini on a Mac and it seemed to be fine. Scroll Lock increased screen brightness for some reason though.. weird.

sth · « **Reply #24 on:** Sun, 11 March 2012, 19:37:30 »

Quote from: Ursadon-n-Pals;542659

mac keyboards don't have a Delete, Home, Page Up, Page Down, End key,

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 43602[/ATTACH]

Netdewt · « **Reply #25 on:** Sun, 11 March 2012, 21:33:36 »

They just don't have insert, scroll lock, pause, print screen, or num lock.

Netdewt · « **Reply #26 on:** Thu, 15 March 2012, 10:09:49 »

As much as I want a real Apple keyboard, nothing I can find is just what I want, so I am just about to put in an order for a full size Leopold for at home. I may do the TKL or a Poker later on for work if I like the switches, etc. If I don't like it at all, I'm sure I can resell it. I'd rather not do a bunch of software hacks, but it seems like there are options out there, and I am interested in learning Colemak, so I'll be doing that stuff anyways.

As much as I like the concept of WASD, I don't really like that their black keys have beige lettering, so I'll probably get blank Command keys, or get a whole new PBT keycap set at some point.

Netdewt · « **Reply #27 on:** Thu, 15 March 2012, 11:40:14 »

I'd like mine still if a different key didn't stop working every day. I don't dislike them. I am typing on one right now.

flags · « **Reply #28 on:** Thu, 15 March 2012, 11:53:06 »

I was using a Macbook the other day and asked the owner where the home key was. Is there seriously no home key? I feel like it's some kind of cruel joke and that it's hidden under some kind of function layer.

sth · « **Reply #29 on:** Thu, 15 March 2012, 11:58:28 »

fn-Down arrow. It's probably the funniest joke I've ever heard. Haw haw haw.

sth · « **Reply #30 on:** Thu, 15 March 2012, 13:27:15 »

Quote from: ripster;546825

My FN key on my Apple Aluminum on W7.

IT DOESSS NOTHEEEEEEEEENNNN!

Do you have the boot camp drivers? Maybe it is just gone now. I don't have an AAK to try with, or anything running windows 7 except my work machine.

Daniel Beardsmore · « **Reply #31 on:** Thu, 15 March 2012, 18:46:47 »

Quote from: ripster;546687

You can use a driver under windows.

Which one? Matias provides a "driver" for the TP3 to swap Win and Alt but it's a pathetic AutoHotkey script that doesn't work properly (and doesn't work at all on remote sessions) (I don't know AutoHotkey enough to know whether it should work, it's great albeit a tad erratic). Otherwise, my TP3 seems to work OK, with F15 behaving as Pause/Break as it should for example. I seem to recall that Apple's Wired Aluminium wasn't as co-operative over F13–F15. And they botched the ISO enter – I end up hitting the case where the key should be.

Quote from: sth;546760

fn-Down arrow. It's probably the funniest joke I've ever heard. Haw haw haw.

Depends what you want. On a Mac, you use opt-arrows and cmd-arrows to move the insertion point, so "home" is either cmd-opt-up (move insertion point to beginning of the document) or cmd-left (move to start of line). The home/end/pg up/down keys move the viewport independently of the insertion point, i.e. they control the scrollbars only. The pg up key on a Mac is the same as clicking the scroll bar above the thumb, i.e. the viewport is moved, and typing anything will scroll back to where you were.

(There are only two things wrong with the HHKB/Poker etc – the Web is a nightmare to use with the keyboard, as is half of Windows 7 (Microsoft have pretty much given up on keyboard accessibility now with 7 being far worse than XP with all of 7's rubbish webby control panels and dialogs), and keyboard-only scrolling is a nuisance, as you can only scroll by one line or one page; you need a little roller at the front of keyboard for controlled scrolling, maybe with "go slow", "go fast", and "switch to x axis" meta buttons to give you the degree of control you'd have with the mouse.)

sebooth · « **Reply #32 on:** Mon, 16 April 2012, 18:29:38 »

I'm loving my Filco majestouch ninja 2 accompanied by keyremap4macbook and a bunch of blank keycaps on some keys. It arrived earlier today and I'm awake far too late playing with it :-) Keyremap was a super discovery - it'll stop my husband complaining about the keyboard he's had to attach to his mac (after he poured red wine all over the mac keyboard he had before).

Nates13 · « **Reply #33 on:** Mon, 23 April 2012, 09:51:51 »

I just recently got a black widow stealth, PC version even though I almost always use mac OS. tweaked the keys withbkeyremap4macbook, works great. I mention this because it seems to meet your criteria, and as razor does make a mac version, you might be able to just contact them and get them to send you a couple of the mac legend key caps.

feteru · « **Reply #34 on:** Mon, 23 April 2012, 19:38:15 »

I am getting the standard Das S Professional, so I will let you guys know how it works.

Netdewt · « **Reply #35 on:** Wed, 02 May 2012, 21:16:18 »

What's out there more powerful the keyremap4macbook? I don't know what to do with the Application key and insert key. Print screen, scroll lock and pause are sorta annoying sitting there doing nothing, and F12 is both eject and dashboard. Now using a Leopold TKL. I'm getting obsessive... maybe that's why I wanted a Poker...

sth · « **Reply #36 on:** Wed, 02 May 2012, 22:08:30 »

I remapped the application key to cmd space, which I have mapped to Quicksilver (because... **** spotlight).

Netdewt · « **Reply #37 on:** Wed, 02 May 2012, 22:25:47 »

Yeah I turn off all that stuff within the regular keyboard pref pane.

I can't get the insert key to do anything whatsoever (none of the FN functions work, which may be normal, and I cannot map it to anything else). But, I am getting a key code from insert with "Full Key Codes".

sth · « **Reply #38 on:** Wed, 02 May 2012, 22:27:07 »

Quote from: Netdewt;588718

Yeah I turn off all that stuff within the regular keyboard pref pane.

I can't get the insert key to do anything whatsoever (none of the FN functions work, which may be normal, and I cannot map it to anything else). But, I am getting a key code from insert with "Full Key Codes".

KR4M supports custom XML but I have never looked into it.

JMK · « **Reply #39 on:** Sun, 06 May 2012, 21:07:28 »

i use m0110, m0110a, aek I, matias pro, and mx8000 (that i installed a1048 controller and rewired the pcb)
my favorite is the first three.
to use m0110 and m0110a, you need teensy and also need to program it. the source code is developed by hasu, a member here.

wooger · « **Reply #40 on:** Sun, 13 May 2012, 13:26:44 »

1)
I don't much care about appearance, key cap legends etc. but what I do care about is the actual layout and position of the command keys (or alt keys). On a Mac keyboard, the right of the command key is in line with the right of the x key. This is IMO better for ergonomics all around. I haven't been able to find any mechanical that copies this from the Mac keyboards, and it sucks.

To honest, if I could I'd make the spacebar even shorter than it is on the Mac 'board and move the command, option and Carl keys further towards the centre.

I wonder if anyone will ever actually match the Mac command key position with a mechanical. Maybe a group buy custom order would work...?

2)
Are there any Bluetooth mechanical keyboards of any sort, with a Mac layout or not? I really want to get one to use with my iPad, but I just can't find anything better than the apple Bluetooth keyboard at the moment. Help.

Netdewt · « **Reply #41 on:** Sun, 13 May 2012, 13:57:40 »

You can swap the keys in the keyboard pref pane. Done.

Or get a JP layout?

Netdewt · « **Reply #42 on:** Sun, 13 May 2012, 14:38:10 »

Also, as ripster posted before the rollback, here is the JP layout HHKB:

I don't really like that the HHKB has those blank spots on the front side of the board, but at the moment I kinda want one for reasons I do not understand.

sth · « **Reply #43 on:** Sun, 13 May 2012, 16:52:50 »

Quote from: Netdewt;591732

You can swap the keys in the keyboard pref pane. Done.

Almost. Doesn't change the right modifier layout, just the left side.

Netdewt · « **Reply #44 on:** Sun, 13 May 2012, 18:20:29 »

You can change both sides. No you can't make it 3 keys instead of 4, of course. Use keyremap4macbook to change the application key. I don't use the right side anyways.

sth · « **Reply #45 on:** Sun, 13 May 2012, 18:33:12 »

Quote from: Netdewt;591931

You can change both sides. No you can't make it 3 keys instead of 4, of course. Use keyremap4macbook to change the application key. I don't use the right side anyways.

Doesn't work on my Mac. Only the left modifiers are affected by the built in remap option.

Netdewt · « **Reply #46 on:** Sun, 13 May 2012, 20:20:37 »

That's weird! I even remapped them with the OS then re-remapped them with kr4m.

feteru · « **Reply #47 on:** Tue, 15 May 2012, 16:08:06 »

Well, I am sure that someone has already mentioned this, but as promised, my Das Professional S (printed) works great on my macbook pro. The only thing is that the scroll and num lock obviously don't do anything (they aren't possible functions in OS X) but other than that, it is fine. 6KRO over USB

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Author Topic: Apple friendly keyboards (Read 7026 times)