more symmetrical (split) keyboard layout

[geekabit]

For a while I have been thinking about a more symmetrical keyboard layout. The layout is obviously inspired by the humble hacker layout. I tried not to move the letters, only the other keys. The keyboard (here displayed as qwerty) is split, with the arrow keys in the empty section between the letters. All modifiers have moved into a column on both the left-hand and right-hand side. For a while I have been running analysis software to figure out which keys I use most. Those turned out to be space, enter, backspace, tab, delete and escape. I tried to put those in easy-to-reach positions. All missing symbols and F-keys are on a second layer, activated by the Fn key. The F-keys are on the number keys. I'm currently working on placing the symbols. I will post an update when it is finished.
I will be trying this layout as soon as I get my Tipro matrix keyboard which is currently stuck in our postal system.
What are your thoughts on this? Do you share my idea that this could be more convenient? Do you have suggestions?

[hoggy]

Nice!

Are you planing on using layers?  I'm a big fan of embedding the arrow keys on jikl.

Hope the Tipro turns up soon.

[Djuzuh]

There is the typematrix 2030 who looks a bit like this, but he isn't mechanical.

[geekabit]

Are you planing on using layers?  I'm a big fan of embedding the arrow keys on jikl.

Sounds like a good idea. I've been thinking about a way to make the arrows more accessible. On the downside, you will have to push 2 buttons instead of one. On the plus side, jikl can be arrows, sedf can be home/up/down/end. I'll have to sleep on this... Oh, well, the keyboard isn't here yet anyway.

There is the typematrix 2030 who looks a bit like this.

I'll look into that one. There are so many keyboard to look at for inspiration. The humble hacker influence is obvious, but I also like the thumb keys, like the Kinesis or key64.

[dorkvader]

That's a great layout! I'm sad my matrix 'board is only 12 units wide Maybe I'll just glue some paper together and grab a teensy for a locost 'paper-plate' implementation.

[bogboar]

While I'm a fan of keeping the keyboard short, I find a middle column silly – you should expand the middle column into two columns, one for each hand. Either that, or remove it altogether.


PS: I see now, that I spoke out of turn. Your middle is not intended to be operated from the home positions, but as a cluster of its own, so that makes the design justified.


Mechanical keyboards that might suit your design include the X-Keys 84 ( http://www.piengineering.com/xkeys/xk12884.php ) and various Access-IS keyboards ( http://www.access-is.com/custom-keyboard-base-layout.php#Custom_Matrix ).

They, PrehKeyTec and other point-of-sale keyboards all have removable keys in favour of custom blank areas - for instance you could take a 8-row keyboard and blank-out most of the lowest-2 rows, making it effectively a 6-row keyboard.


PPS: I'd like to add that you really should try to give the keyboard three keys per thumb. It's quite possible: as proof, keyboards where the spacebar begins precisely below F or J, like yours, tend to have very easy-to-hit Alt-keys. Bonus if the Alt-key in question is much wider than a normal Alt-key.

[geekabit]

Thanks for all the great ideas. By now the arrows and home/end/page up/page down have moved to jikl and sedf, which cleans up the centre section. It's easier (I hope) to keep your hand in the same place and press Fn to get arrows, instead of moving all the way to the centre of the keyboard.

That's a great layout! I'm sad my matrix 'board is only 12 units wide

Thanks. Are you using your matrix keyboard as primary keyboard or as additional keys? Which layout are you using?

Mechanical keyboards that might suit your design include the X-Keys 84 and various Access-IS keyboards.

I just bought a Tipro 16x8 matrix unit from kbdfr. I have been looking at Access-IS keyboards, but this was the first one I could lay my hands on. This will be my first matrix layout. I'm currently using an ancient Model M keyboard. Maybe I can try some other pos keyboards sometime and compare them. I'm not sure if Tipro has blanks, like Access-IS. Afaik I get some unlabelled keys, but that's not the same.

PPS: I'd like to add that you really should try to give the keyboard three keys per thumb.

The more I read on geekhack and deskthority, the more I like the idea of thumb keys. The enter/space keys in my layout are more of a split spacebar. This was the best I could come up with... I'll give the extra thumb keys a try.

[boli]

The more I read on geekhack and deskthority, the more I like the idea of thumb keys. The enter/space keys in my layout are more of a split spacebar. This was the best I could come up with... I'll give the extra thumb keys a try.

Thumb keys are awesome for modifier keys (Ctrl/Alt/Option/Command/Win/Shift), because you use them together with other keys (duh). They're also great for keys which can precede or follow (m)any other keys, such as Backspace or Enter.

I use my thumbs for these keys:


For more inspiration you can check out Maltron:

Maltron 89:


Maltron 90:


Personally I prefer using other fingers for arrows, but for other navigational stuff like page up/down they're OK.

Recently I used a TrulyErgonomic keyboard for a few weeks and really liked the central Tab key position, to be used with either index finger. Especially when combined with thumb modifiers application switching with Command + Tab (or Alt + Tab) is awesome.

[hoggy]

The tipro style blanking plates are better than the access ones, but it depends why you've used them.  The access ones are very difficult to remove, making them a better choice for shops.  The tipro ones don't look as good, but are quite easy to remove, making them a better choice for people changing the layout.

[geekabit]

The keyboard finally arrived. Our postal system never lost anything (for me), but is a bit slow at times.

Thumb keys are awesome for modifier keys, because you use them together with other keys (duh). They're also great for keys which can precede or follow (m)any other keys, such as Backspace or Enter.

I tried to move the keys that are used a lot, but hard to reach into the thumb area. Currently that is on the left-hand side: escape (vim), enter, backspace and on the right-hand side: tab, space and delete. It takes some getting-used-to. The modifiers are on the pinky-side. This works if you use a single modifier, but combinations (ctrl+shift or fn+alt) are far from perfect. I would love to try the angled thumb-keys, but my (matrix) keyboard doesn't allow for that

Hoggy; the jikl for arrow keys is great. I mapped sedf for home/page up/page down/end, wich works great as well. Your fingers don't have to leave the home position! The only disadvantage is using modifiers, since I already have to press Fn to get the arrows. Fn+ctrl+shift is quite hard.

The Fn key on the home row is great, so is the row of modifiers on both sides of the keyboard. I'll keep you guys updated.

[hoggy]

Pretty clean looking board you got there - nice!

I'm glad you got an extra column between the hands.

One of the guys on deskthority (kbdfr) was selling a bundle of tipro keycaps, he might have some left...

[geekabit]

I'm actually looking for other keycaps, especially for the letter keys. The ones that came with the keyboard have a flat top. It's hard to keep your fingers in the middle of the keys. If I happen to find some, that'll free up some keycaps to go on the top-right corner. Funny thing is that I bought the board of kbdfr

[dorkvader]

I want some flat keycaps. I'll trade you. Is WYSE this doubleshot okay?

[geekabit]

I want some flat keycaps. I'll trade you. Is WYSE this doubleshot okay?

Sure! Do you know the Tipro keys? There is a white 'bottom' with coloured 'lids'. All the bottoms are identical, only the lids differ. The letter lids are flat (duh), green with white text and the label looks printed. Are you looking for specific keys, or relegendable ones? I'm looking for the letter keys, comma, period, slash, semicolon and maybe the number keys.

[dorkvader]

I'm after basically the same.
A-Z
some relegendables. (for the ',.;/=- keys)
maybe the number row.

Alternatively, how about the SP doubleshots from my access-IS 'board. They won't be yellowed, but I only have A-Z in profile (so no comma, period, slash, semicolon).

If you like chinese legends, I'd be happy to give you my CMstorm keys, or if you want to wait a bit, I'll have a non-chinese CMstorm coming in.
---
Really I have lots of options.

[geekabit]

Here is an image of the current setup. I traded the Tipro keycaps for dorkvaders CMstorm caps. The new caps are in profile, which I like more than the Tipro flat tops. Some of the non-letter keys have moved around a bit, but I still get confused sometimes and mix-up the modifiers. Switching to matrix layout only took a couple of days to get used to, but switching the some modifiers, tab, backspace, escape etc. takes some getting-used-to.

The 3 keys in the top left corner are for Qwerty, Dvorak or Colemak layout. The rest of the top row is empty because I ran out of keys

[Djuzuh]

That's a really really nice setup.

How much is such a tipro worth?

[geekabit]

For me it's priceless.
But seriously, I paid 40 Euro for the keyboard + shipping (found it at deskthority). It came with lots of printed keycaps and relegendables. I traded a handful of caps with dorkvader for the black letter caps. So you can get this kind of setup for under 50 Euro. It's quite affordable, and very flexible. The only disadvantage is that the programming software only runs on a Windows machine with PS/2 port. Since I run Linux on an USB-only machine, I have to plug it in my girlfriends computer when I want to change the layout. Fortunately you only need to do this when you're working on the layout.
I'm currently searching for a second Tipro keyboard to use at work.

[geekabit]

My current plan is to get a second Tipro keyboard and fit it with Cherry brown switches. While I do like the blacks, I would like lighter keys and a little tactile feedback. Maybe add some rubber dampening rings as well. I already contacted someone about the keyboard, but I'm still searching for a lot of Cherry brown switches. Maybe the cheapest source is a donor keyboard.
I'll keep you guys informed.

[geekabit]

I just received my new keyboard. It's another Tipro MID128. It took a little over an hour to disassemble it and desolder all the Cherry switches. Hopefully I get the Cherry brown switches soon. In the meantime I'll let you guys know what this keyboard looks from the inside.


Oh, btw I have a pile of second hand Cherry black switches for sale.

[damorgue]

Hmm, now I wish that the one I found was larger, mine is only 12 by 8 switches.