Colemak caps lock recommendation (backspace)

[Netdewt]

Does everyone do this with Colemak? I decided to learn it and got everything set up this morning. I'm a little bothered by the fact that the two backspaces are not in the same row. Should I go forward with learning the caps lock as backspace?

[stingrae]

caps lock as backspace very quickly becomes second nature, also the left pinky only has A as a key hit regularly Q and Z are not awfully common, I think it's personal preference as to what it becomes, I think for those using shortcuts a lot (adobe products?) control may be a better option. The one problem is you will switch caps lock on on another computer (did it today). I don't find myself using the real backspace much at all perhaps I should but I think im more likely to try make it something else.

[boli]

I used to love caps lock as backspace and can recommend doing it with any layout, not just Colemak. Its new position close to the home row felt really comfortable. Of course if you don't use it much and/or have a better use for the prime position of caps lock: go for it.

Nowadays backspace is actually on the home row for me, which is even more comfortable.

[miscreation]

I type with the Dvorak layout, but I use Caps Lock as an extra Backspace as well.  I quickly learned to ignore the normal Backspace and since I don't need Caps Lock anyway, it didn't move it to where the normal Backspace exists.

[Netdewt]

I assume any 1x1.75 Backspace key would have to be totally custom?

[boli]

I guess. You could replace the caps lock key with a custom R2 1x1.75 from WASDkeyboards if you care for the label on the key... or get a blank one.

Or if you actually meant a replacement for the original backspace position: WASD at least doesn't have any R4 1x1.75.

[Tony]

Yes.

Using AutoHotkey, I map Ctrl-Capslock to Capslock, so that I can still use Capslock when necessary.

[Netdewt]

Hm, nice idea. Has anyone used Spark for Mac? Can it be used along with KeyRemap4MacBook?

[boli]

Hm, nice idea. Has anyone used Spark for Mac? Can it be used along with KeyRemap4MacBook?

Haven't tried. Is Spark even needed nowadays? You can set custom shortcuts for anything available in a menu using just OS X built-in capabilities... I assume Spark can do a little more than that, but it looks like it's dying (last update 2008).

[Netdewt]

I'll need to look more into the customization abilities of Mac OSX. I am ashamed to say I don't do much customization usually because I hate re-setting all the stuff up when I switch computers or get a new one.

I went ahead and put PCKeyboardHack on all my machines. It works well and the Caps Lock light does not come on, however it will not repeat when held down unless KeyRemap4MacBook is installed.

[boli]

Hmm, I used DoubleCommand to convert CapsLock to Backspace, and it worked quite well. That was years ago though, so not sure how well it works today. Maybe not so well, since they refer to KeyRemap4MacBook.

[jpc]

Get a Kinesis. The Kinesis puts the backspace key by your left thumb where god intended. No need to hijack the caps lock.

[Input Nirvana]

Get a Kinesis. The Kinesis puts the backspace key by your left thumb where god intended. No need to hijack the caps lock.

Heh heh. Thumb keys change everything. I have figured out that the most common keys should be put in the thumb clusters, without exception. Interesting alternative layouts ensue!

[fossala]

My thought is that If you don't make mistakes you don't need the backspace. But I think for layout the Kinesis is the best board made (That I have used).

[sordna]

Thumb keys are so good, they should be considered as home row keys! Guess what, palm keys are awesome too. Here's the keyboard I'm typing this message with:

[Input Nirvana]

Thumb keys are so good, they should be considered as home row keys! Guess what, palm keys are awesome too.

Using the technical definition, the ENTER and DELETE thumb keys are "home row", and on the Sordna-board, the 2 arcade palm buttons as well.

I can't wait to add Sordnas arcade palm buttons!

Note: Datahand shares using the thumbs/thumb cluster feature.

[Netdewt]

I ganked the capslock on all my computers last week and haven't looked back. Good riddance!

As much as I like the idea of the Kinesis, it looks really huge. It also doesn't look like it would be very good for retouching. I use key combinations constantly and my hands cross over to the wrong side all the time. I mostly use the left side modifiers, hence this board I was designing.

[sordna]

It's not huge, it always felt small in comparison to regular keyboards which push the mouse so far away. As you can see, it's almost the same length as my IBM SSK, but of course both look huge compared to the Poker:

[Netdewt]

That is definitely quite a bit smaller than it looks. I'm not sure if it would help me or not though, and they are $300!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sordna]

Well, $269 shipped for the standard version, but you can find used ones on ebay. They really last! My collection includes a couple 20-year old ones, on of them is on tour though:

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?26055-Kinesis-Contoured-Try-amp-Forward

[Input Nirvana]

Colemak...changing layouts...Kinesis Advantage...adding keys...Mac OSX...I was just thinking that with the extra keys, by using Controllermate or Ukelele some increased functionality can be achieved???

Boli, I know you've been down this path...at least somewhat. Thoughts? (Oops, maybe too far off topic and a new thread...)

[Netdewt]

Well, $269 shipped for the standard version, but you can find used ones on ebay. They really last! My collection includes a couple 20-year old ones, on of them is on tour though:

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?26055-Kinesis-Contoured-Try-amp-Forward

I'm not helping the off topic issue, but maybe I should think about trying a Kinesis. My Wacom cost more that $270, and if it would help my hands it's worth it. I'm noodling on that roller mouse too. I'd like to find a local retailer though so I can try them out. What's the difference between the pro and regular?

[Input Nirvana]

The Advantage Pro has over the Advantage:

1-A little concealed programming lock switch you can activate with a business card/credit card in the thumb cluster area below the level of the keys. It's to prevent someone that might be playing with your keyboard from messing up any keyboard programming you may have done.

2-An additional memory chip so you can have twice as many macros. NOTE: You can always buy the extra memory chip an add it to the standard Advantage.

3-Silver painted top case


I'm a huge fan of the RollerMouse! I <3 RollerMouse!

[Netdewt]

I emailed them to see if there is a dealer near here. What do people use the foot switches for?

Since I use my Wacom to the right of my keyboard, the roller mouse would actually be doubly nice if I like how it works. Free or pro?

[Input Nirvana]

Sorry, I thought you meant the Kinesis pro version....I currently use the Rollermouse Free 2.

The Free 2 seems to be their 'Flagship' model.

I have the Station, Free, and Free 2. Never had the Pro or Pro 2. The difference between the Station and Pro is the scroll and middle button swap positions. Jpc has a Pro 2...he has a review of it compared to a Free 2...use the search. There's a fair amount of Rollermouse info on GH...I know because I've contributed a bunch of it. lol

Where are you located?

Foot switches are programmable, so they can be anything. But they come defaulting to "shift", 'keypad enter', and 'keypad layer'.

[Netdewt]

I did mean the Kinesis pro vs regular the first time.

Located in MN.

I signed up for the rollermouse free trial!

[Input Nirvana]

I have news for you:

You may not even know it yet, but you BOUGHT the Rollermouse Free 2. There is NO WAY you are returning it after you've used it for a month. I live a couple blocks from the beach, so people come visit and stay at my house rather than a hotel. Several have gone home and bought a Rollermouse after using mine for only a week. I should ask the Rollermouse guys for a commission. lol

[Netdewt]

That's ok, still want to try it myself.

[Input Nirvana]

That's ok, still want to try it myself.

Did you get my previous post is a joke? That you won't be returning the Rollermouse? That you won't be able to live without it? lol

[Netdewt]

Yep, I get it! I hope it works for me too. Not for my wallet's sake, but for my hands'.

[boli]

Colemak...changing layouts...Kinesis Advantage...adding keys...Mac OSX...I was just thinking that with the extra keys, by using Controllermate or Ukelele some increased functionality can be achieved???

Boli, I know you've been down this path...at least somewhat. Thoughts? (Oops, maybe too far off topic and a new thread...)

Hmm, not sure what you're goal is. Anyway: you don't need ControllerMate with the Kinesis, as it can be remapped in firmware anyway (you can use it for advanced stuff like say a key that toggles an auto-repeat function, like I used for WoW crafting).

If you'd like to change some characters (say on the shifted layer, or an Alt layer) then the layout editor Ukelele is the way to go.

I'm not helping the off topic issue, but maybe I should think about trying a Kinesis. My Wacom cost more that $270, and if it would help my hands it's worth it. I'm noodling on that roller mouse too.

A good keyboard to reduce health issues is definitely worth its cost. The Kinesis aren't even that expensive compared to their role model, the Maltron. Personally I never saw the need for the Pro model, I don't use macros and think the regular finish is fine.

Rollermouse is awesome, I've been trying one for the last 3 weeks (borrowed from work buddy). It's not the best fit with a Kinesis though, because of the keyboard's height and resulting long distance to the rollermouse. I'll probably switch to a trackball instead. If I had a normal flat keyboard I'd probably get a Rollermouse of my own.

[Netdewt]

The Kinesis looks awesome, and I may get one at some point, but the more I've thought about it, I don't type traditionally that much. I point and peck and use key commands constantly, mostly with my left hand (left hand never hurts). I should take a video of me retouching and post it in my other thread so people can see what I mean. The RSI I get is from mousing. I think I will probably continue to use my Apple aluminum keyboard at work for retouching, and try the Rollermouse with that.

Mods can move off topic discussion if they want. Doesn't matter to me.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?29029-Reducing-RSI-for-visual-artists

[Input Nirvana]

Netdewt:
Mousing is a big RSI culprit Good you recognize where your issues are.
Regarding the peck typing...Kinesis will stop that. It separates and defines. It sort of fits your hands like a glove, sooo....not much moving of your hands.
Rollermouse is dramatic for changing the way your hands move with mousing. You don't grip, you don't pinch, you don't need to use fingers as much as the weight of your hand. I use Kinesis and Rollermouse, not a perfect match at all, but still awesome, and I may make a mod someday to try and integrate.

Boli:
I don't have a specific goal at this time, just the concept with the added keys/alt layer as you mentioned. One or two functions could really tailor the keyboard for someone that uses specific trade applications at work, less so for general usage.

[Netdewt]

Netdewt:
Regarding the peck typing...Kinesis will stop that. It separates and defines. It sort of fits your hands like a glove, sooo....not much moving of your hands.
Rollermouse is dramatic for changing the way your hands move with mousing. You don't grip, you don't pinch, you don't need to use fingers as much as the weight of your hand.

I get that the Kinesis would help me type properly, but when I'm retouching, I don't need or want to type properly. I use my right hand for mousing/Wacom and my left for the keyboard. A one-handed keyboard would be sweet if there was a decent one out there, but then I can't switch back and forth. Back to the original topic, the capslock/backspace swap is actually very nice for my usage. I use backspace a lot (never use capslock) and it puts it over where my left hand already is.

Rollermouse is set to be delivered Monday. I'm a little nervous about their talk about 2 handed mousing. I'll need a foot keyboard if I really need 2 hands for this thing. I'm skeptical that it will be as accurate as a regular mouse. Maybe mind control? When will that be on the market?

[boli]

Mind control mice are on the market, and IIRC they suck donkey balls.

I only used my right hand with the Rollermouse during my 3+ weeks trial, and it works very well. I'm easily accurate enough for general computer tasks already (note I'm a software developer not a graphics artist, so YMMV). I wouldn't trust myself gaming with it just yet, though.

[Input Nirvana]

Mind control mice are on the market, and IIRC they suck donkey balls.

LOL

You don't NEED to use both hands with Rollermouse, but you can if you want. I have done it here and there for whatever reason, by choice, not because it's required.

I love this, you hooked on Rollermouse, and you have no idea how in love you will be with it. I'm gloating.