Worth switching from Blackwidow to Corsair K90 MMO?

[Mahyar Meshign]

Hi,

Is it true that Blackwidow is that crap compared to other mechanicals?
Is there too much difference between the Blackwidow and Corsair K90? Worth an upgrade? I have had the Blackwidow for just 2-3 days... I am thinking of asking for a refund considering people say that MX Blues are crap and Blackwidow is a joke compared to other mechanicals. Should I do it?

By the way, I only play World of Warcraft.

Thanks alot

[metafour]

I would suggest that before you worry about what other people think, you consider how you like your purchase.

[Mahyar Meshign]

I would suggest that before you worry about what other people think, you consider how you like your purchase.

Well I am to some extent satisfied, except where the loud clicking sometimes annoys me and I sometimes feel like it's a membrane type keyboard instead of mechanical however it may be because of myself since it is the first time for me to have a mechanical board.
To be honest, I know it sounds foolish but I typed on my HP laptop again after a while that has a low profile membrane keyboard and I very much preferred that because it didn't need as much as force, atleast not more than my likings. I was thinking that the K90 would require less force and feel more tactile. Still don't know whether it's only me or not that feels this keyboard is like a old Microsoft membrane one sometimes and makes my fingers feel tired...

[metafour]

Personally I prefer linear switches, red and black. It looks like the K90 has MX Red switches. However, you should keep in mind that the Corsair keyboards do not have a full set of mechanical switches. Some of the "lesser used" keys are not on Cherry switches.

[Mahyar Meshign]

Personally I prefer linear switches, red and black. It looks like the K90 has MX Red switches. However, you should keep in mind that the Corsair keyboards do not have a full set of mechanical switches. Some of the "lesser used" keys are not on Cherry switches.

Yep, I just read that.
Asides from that, are they noticeably more tactile/require less force to actuate than blues?
Also, are there any other keyboards similar to these that you would suggest?

[metafour]

To me there is definitely a noticeable difference between Blues and Reds. IIRC Blues, Browns and Reds actually have the same or very similar springs and the difference is in the stems. There is no bump on Reds and no real noise unless I bottom out. But even then you can experiment with different o-rings to change the feel and sound of the bottom out.

My personal preference is small form factor boards so I only have tenkeyless and Pokers. There are Pokers for sale in the Classifieds right now with every switch available except for Blues I believe. If you want a full size board people seem to like Filco which you should be able to easily acquire from keyboardco since I think they're in your next of the woods. There's also Cherry brand boards which I believe they sell as well or WASD which would ship from the US and same with Leopolds.

[Findecanor]

The Cherry MX Red is not considered a tactile switch. It is considered a "linear" switch because there is not tactile bump. The force to actuate it should be about the same as MX Blues, or slightly higher on the reds because typing on them tends to overshoot because there is not tactile feedback to tell you to stop.

The Razer Blackwidow is not a bad board. However, the blue switch is considered most suitable for typing and for only some games. For action-packed games such as first-person shooters, the linear switches (MX Red, MX Black) are considered to be more suitable.
The BlackWidow is optimized for gaming, but it does not have n-key rollover like some more expensive boards. Personally, I think that only very few gamers ever need n-key rollover.

[reLapse]

The BlackWidow is optimized for gaming.

You mean to say that it has a lot of useless bells and whistles.

[Findecanor]

You mean to say that it has a lot of useless bells and whistles.

I was thinking of the matrix, but I didn't want to have to explain what a matrix is.

[captain]

I like the Corsair for gaming. The cheapskate trick of using rubber domes annoys me though. If I hadn't got it from Fry's I would have returned it and got another Filco in red.

[Squelos]

MX Reds are lighter than blues btw ... 55g for the blues vs 45g for the reds i believe.

[Mahyar Meshign]

It seems that the Blackwidow has optimized matrix in the WASD cluster to make it seem like "Full anti-ghosting", but it still allows you to press any 4 keys of the WASD cluster together with 2 additional keys if I'm right?
So if I upgrade to the MX Reds, it wont be much easier to type than it is on the Blackwidow, yeah? Which switches require the least force to actuate?

[anselben]

I feel that if you are satisfied with the quality and build of the blackwidow who cares if other people think it's junk. It's all opinions really, and I haven't tried out mx reds so I can't offer help with that. But I have played a few MMO's (wow and swtor) with my mx blues and they were completely fine. I haven't noticed any kind of disadvantage I have with them in those games so there's no need for me to switch out for that particular reason. If you like your board and are satisfied with it playing world of warcraft, stick with it. Or if you want switches without the tactile bump then maybe the corsair might be a better choice.

[Human]

If you are happy with it and insensitive enough to detect its flaws, then I will suggest you to keep it.

[Squelos]

The keycaps on the BW are pretty bad. You could change them for like 35$. But you could also keep it . Its still better than a rubber dome, and the feel isnt that bad

[metafour]

So if I upgrade to the MX Reds, it wont be much easier to type than it is on the Blackwidow, yeah? Which switches require the least force to actuate?

From my experience Reds have a much lower actuation force than Blues.

[Tallon]

I was thinking of the matrix, but I didn't want to have to explain what a matrix is.

No one can be told what the Matrix is...

[Tallon]

Personally, if you don't like the sound of the blues I'd get a new keyboard no matter what. It's not going to become any better as time goes on.

However, would I get the Corsair K90? No. I would not buy a keyboard that has some keys as mechanical, and some as rubber dome. IT may have lots of macro keys and such, but there are decent keyboards out there that at least have solid mechanical keys, and do not have blues.

Did you look at the coolermaster quickfire? I know it has a lot of branding, but if you can get past that it looks like a great board. I believe it has reds. If you want stiffer keys and backlighting, you could check out the zibal 60 (blacks).

Or you could go get one of those Ducky's and choose almost any switch and color you want...

-Tallon

[Mahyar Meshign]

Personally, if you don't like the sound of the blues I'd get a new keyboard no matter what. It's not going to become any better as time goes on.

However, would I get the Corsair K90? No. I would not buy a keyboard that has some keys as mechanical, and some as rubber dome. IT may have lots of macro keys and such, but there are decent keyboards out there that at least have solid mechanical keys, and do not have blues.

Did you look at the coolermaster quickfire? I know it has a lot of branding, but if you can get past that it looks like a great board. I believe it has reds. If you want stiffer keys and backlighting, you could check out the zibal 60 (blacks).

Or you could go get one of those Ducky's and choose almost any switch and color you want...

-Tallon

I am seriously considering a new keyboard now, because the noise is annoying for other people even miles away in the house... I was going to consider the Stealth edition, but they only have the US layout at the moment which I don't like.
I like the Zibal 60, but aren't blacks noisy? I read somewhere that their click noise is even worse than the blues, and also that browns seem to be the most tactile between all. Are there any browns that you would recommend?
In addition to this, there is one thing that I am confused about. The "UK Filco Majestouch-2, NKR, Tactile Action Keyboard" uses browns and requires 55g force to actuate whereas the Blackwidow with blues need 50. And they are both the same 2.0mm!? I thought the browns are more tactile and need less force?
By the way, I would really appreciate one with a nice wrist rest, as I type alot and I have a glass desk which make me wrists feel bad.

[Autolyze]

Please have a look at the Cherry switch wiki here, it will hopefully clear some things up for you. You want to pay attention to the *peak* force before actuation, not just the actuation force. http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Cherry+Corporation+Switch+Wiki

I like the Zibal 60, but aren't blacks noisy? I read somewhere that their click noise is even worse than the blues, and also that browns seem to be the most tactile between all.

Blacks are not noisy as far as MX switches go. Blacks use a heavier spring than blues and are linear (read: non-tactile), so I do not think they are what you are looking for here. Not counting uncommon switches like greens and clicky whites, the blue switch is the only standard Cherry MX switch that has the clicky sound at actuation. All of the switches will sound the same when bottoming out, although if you use a higher force switch (like clears) you can avoid bottoming out more easily. Using a board with PCB-mounted switches or adding o-rings to the switches will quiet the bottoming out sound a little.

In addition to this, there is one thing that I am confused about. The "UK Filco Majestouch-2, NKR, Tactile Action Keyboard" uses browns and requires 55g force to actuate whereas the Blackwidow with blues need 50.  I thought the browns are more tactile and need less force?

Blues require approximately 5g more force to actuate than browns, which is just enough to be noticeable when typing. While the force *at* actuation for blues just needs to be about 50g, they must pass the peak force of about 60g to get to that point. See the force diagrams in the wiki.

And they are both the same 2.0mm!?

All Cherry MX switches have 4mm of travel and actuate at roughly 2mm.

I thought the browns are more tactile and need less force?

There is no Cherry MX switch that is both more tactile and lighter than blues. You are probably best off going with browns or reds. Browns are a little lighter than blues and are noticeably less tactile. Reds are even lighter, but are linear (non-tactile).

[Mahyar Meshign]

Please have a look at the Cherry switch wiki here, it will hopefully clear some things up for you. You want to pay attention to the *peak* force before actuation, not just the actuation force. http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Cherry+Corporation+Switch+Wiki


Blacks are not noisy as far as MX switches go. Blacks use a heavier spring than blues and are linear (read: non-tactile), so I do not think they are what you are looking for here. Not counting uncommon switches like greens and clicky whites, the blue switch is the only standard Cherry MX switch that has the clicky sound at actuation. All of the switches will sound the same when bottoming out, although if you use a higher force switch (like clears) you can avoid bottoming out more easily. Using a board with PCB-mounted switches or adding o-rings to the switches will quiet the bottoming out sound a little.


Blues require approximately 5g more force to actuate than browns, which is just enough to be noticeable when typing. While the force *at* actuation for blues just needs to be about 50g, they must pass the peak force of about 60g to get to that point. See the force diagrams in the wiki.


All Cherry MX switches have 4mm of travel and actuate at roughly 2mm.


There is no Cherry MX switch that is both more tactile and lighter than blues. You are probably best off going with browns or reds. Browns are a little lighter than blues and are noticeably less tactile. Reds are even lighter, but are linear (non-tactile).

Thanks for the info, it was very helpful.

I really don't know how to explain how I like a keyboard in the best way, but I'll try my best: I want something easy to press like laptop keyboards, not sure whether it is called actuation force or peak force or anything else. I tried the Steelseries 6Gv2 today and it was fine in my opinion, but they were a bit "stiff" which I think may make me fingers feel tired after a while of typing. I believe that the 6gv2 uses blacks, so would you still recommend browns/reds if I want something like the 6gv2 but a bit less "stiffer"? Does that kind of switch even exist?

[Autolyze]

Reds are your switch then. They're the lightest of the Cherry MX switches and are really just blacks with a lighter spring.

[Mahyar Meshign]

Reds are your switch then. They're the lightest of the Cherry MX switches and are really just blacks with a lighter spring.

Okay, then which keyboard would you recommend that has a wrist rest + N key rollover like the Filcos? Backlit would be great too.

[Autolyze]

You're going to have to get a separate wrist rest, since they're generally not found with mechanical keyboards.

As far as I know, the Ducky Shine is the only decent backlit board that currently is available with red switches. If you're cool with ditching the backlighting requirement, I would suggest checking out the Rosewill RK-9000, the CMStorm QuickFire Rapid, and the tenkeyless Leopold (the full-size has a non-standard spacebar that's hard to replace). If you're okay with something a bit smaller, the KBT Race and KBT Pure are both backlit and I believe can come with reds. You probably won't be able to find them online as easily, but I think there are group buys on Geekhack for them.

[Mahyar Meshign]

You're going to have to get a separate wrist rest, since they're generally not found with mechanical keyboards.

As far as I know, the Ducky Shine is the only decent backlit board that currently is available with red switches. If you're cool with ditching the backlighting requirement, I would suggest checking out the Rosewill RK-9000, the CMStorm QuickFire Rapid, and the tenkeyless Leopold (the full-size has a non-standard spacebar that's hard to replace). If you're okay with something a bit smaller, the KBT Race and KBT Pure are both backlit and I believe can come with reds. You probably won't be able to find them online as easily, but I think there are group buys on Geekhack for them.

The Ducky Shine: "- Available in Blue, Brown and Black Cherry MX switches", no red?!
And I can't find any stock in the UK for the QuickFire, plus that the Elitekeyboards don't have any UK layouts.
How is the 7G or 6gv2 compared to these? What about the 7G, do you think it is to my liking or not?

[Droflen]

No, the 7G is a 6gv2 with another case around it. They both have black switches.

[Mahyar Meshign]

No, the 7G is a 6gv2 with another case around it. They both have black switches.

Ok then what would you recommend for a red with UK layout that can be found here in websites that ship from around the UK? Like the K90 is available in UK stocks, I don't want to wait 2 weeks for it to be delivered, so that's why I don't want to order from outside the UK.

[davkol]

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum

[Mahyar Meshign]

CM QFR should be hitting the European market in few weeks. There is a thread about it.

Can't really wait a few weeks.... :-s

[Squelos]

Well you do have your blackwidow no ? Isnt it working ok ?

[metafour]

Check WASD and keyboardco

[Mahyar Meshign]

I just went for the Corsair K90, let's see how that goes... I don't care much about the rubber keys because I am not gonna use them much or maybe at all anyway, except some of the macro keys which I'm fine with as long as it has the real anti-ghosting capability.