Author Topic: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana  (Read 25549 times)

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Offline sth

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[Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 20 June 2012, 19:54:02 »
Swing by oakland, we can... talk about... keyboards. Right.
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Offline WRXChris

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[Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 20 June 2012, 20:07:06 »
yes. keyboards. lol!

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 53513[/ATTACH] [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 53514[/ATTACH]

Offline DanGWanG

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[Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 20 June 2012, 20:18:32 »
Hey!  Those aren't keyboards!!

Offline TexasFlood

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[Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #53 on: Wed, 20 June 2012, 20:25:05 »
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Offline WRXChris

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[Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #54 on: Wed, 20 June 2012, 20:25:21 »
haha you got me!  this one's for your sth: [ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 53517[/ATTACH]

Offline sth

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[Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #55 on: Wed, 20 June 2012, 20:28:59 »
Oh honey. You just come out here and I'll roll you something nice like you never seen.

JK looks tasty. Enjoy :)
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Offline DanGWanG

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #56 on: Wed, 25 July 2012, 18:49:01 »


I hope Rip sees this...

Offline demik

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #57 on: Wed, 25 July 2012, 22:37:52 »
corny
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Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #58 on: Thu, 02 August 2012, 10:42:25 »
I wasn't aware there were other pot smokers on Geekhack until I started reading this thread...
tp thread is tp thread
Sometimes it's like he accidentally makes a thread instead of a google search.

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Offline DanGWanG

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #59 on: Thu, 02 August 2012, 10:43:32 »
I wasn't aware there were other pot smokers on Geekhack until I started reading this thread...

Welcome to my subforum =)

Offline DanGWanG

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #60 on: Thu, 02 August 2012, 10:45:49 »
Another good find on r/trees...


Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #61 on: Thu, 02 August 2012, 10:53:18 »
Another good find on r/trees...

Show Image


I know first-hand that numbers 1, 7, and 10 are 100% accurate.  I get the occasional headache/migraine, and the pot helps with that a lot. I also have severe ADHD, and I have noticed it does help me keep motivated and on task. And I do have some mild OCD, and it has pretty much disappeared since I've been smoking.

I think I will be spending a lot more time in this subforum. =)
tp thread is tp thread
Sometimes it's like he accidentally makes a thread instead of a google search.

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Offline DanGWanG

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #62 on: Thu, 02 August 2012, 10:56:01 »
No personal experience with #9? hahaha

Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #63 on: Thu, 02 August 2012, 10:57:33 »
Lmao...
tp thread is tp thread
Sometimes it's like he accidentally makes a thread instead of a google search.

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Offline DanGWanG

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #64 on: Thu, 02 August 2012, 17:03:27 »
Thought I'd post this here, as I saw it was somewhat relevant...

From the creators of "The Union," the same team is out to document something from a culture perspective.  Right now they're on Kick Starter trying to raise any revenue they can in order to move forward with the video, and it looks like they've achieved their goal, which is awesome.  Please show your support and donate (or buy a dvd, it's a good deal):

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/scorgie/the-culture-high

Offline demik

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #65 on: Thu, 02 August 2012, 18:20:56 »
only reason i need
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Offline DanGWanG

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #66 on: Sat, 20 October 2012, 11:08:39 »
This year Colorado, Washington (state) and Oregon are voting for full legalization of Marijuana.  That is to say, they will be treated and enforced by state government in the same manner as alcohol.  Prohibition just doesn't work, and I for one, can't wait for one of these states to fully legalize.  This is a great opportunity to present some new entrepreneurial ventures as well =)

Offline kurplop

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #67 on: Sat, 20 October 2012, 13:13:02 »
Having somehow managed to remain drug and alcohol free for my 58 years of life, many of my friends are surprised that I take a somewhat relaxed position on the legalization of marijuana.

- I agree with those who think we spend too much on the prosecution and incarceration of non-violent drug users.
- A stay in a prison could possibly turn a non-violent pothead into a more destructive member of society.
- Like prohibition, the War on Drugs never advanced past it's beachhead invasion. The  violence and financial cost is reason enough for a retreat.
- Even if pot is a gateway drug to more harmful substances, I doubt that those with a predisposition toward drug abuse or overuse have been waiting for it's legal status before lighting up.
- While I hate more taxes, I dislike even more that drug users seem to be in a protected class because they seem to be able to skirt paying taxes on there purchases.
- It does seem irrational for society to have outlawed prescription marijuana, assuming it's miraculous healing properties, but allow much more dangerous prescription drugs.

Going back to the thread title, I think that legalizing Medical Marijuana and properly taxing and regulating it's use would have a positive economic cash flow on the gov't coffers.

I am curious however, and this is not a rhetorical question, how many of you want to see pot legalized for medical reasons, and how many for recreational convenience?

Offline Goliath

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #68 on: Tue, 23 October 2012, 00:10:04 »
I do not smoke and never have, but I do feel it should be legalized. It does not cause any harm and I do not see the harm in cannabis being illegal. It causes more harm and costs more money trying to stop it. The choice seems pretty clear Imo. lol :cool:
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Offline kurplop

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #69 on: Tue, 23 October 2012, 08:02:54 »
Abuse, or overuse of almost anything (e.g. the young woman who died of drinking too much water a few years ago) is possible and the more pleasurable the act, the greater the risk of addiction.

My overall opinion of my fellow Geekhack contributors is that they are intelligent and productive and are probably not underachievers. However, by necessity, anyone who can spend so much time dwelling on something as trivial (blasphemy) as the subtle nuances between the sound of key switches has an obsessive personality.  Those of us with such a personality could go overboard with any of our passions.

 I've had too many friends who have passed the tipping point with drugs to believe that there isn't a risk of harmful drug use, whether medical or recreational.

Offline DanGWanG

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 24 October 2012, 09:22:52 »
I am curious however, and this is not a rhetorical question, how many of you want to see pot legalized for medical reasons, and how many for recreational convenience?

I'd say a little of both, but leaning towards the recreational side.  I don't have any major illnesses so I can't really speak on that aspect without experience.  But from what I've seen and testimonials I've read/heard, the people who believe in it's medicinal effects really do appreciate this organic medicine.

From a recreational perspective, the argument I most commonly see is, "why is alcohol legal and pot isn't?"  It's a good question.  Alcohol can potentially cause a much more dangerous situation.  Do you want a teenager drunk as hell driving on the road?  Or a paranoid teenager stoner, driving under the speed limit?

Offline kurplop

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #71 on: Wed, 24 October 2012, 20:06:54 »
I am curious however, and this is not a rhetorical question, how many of you want to see pot legalized for medical reasons, and how many for recreational convenience?


From a recreational perspective, the argument I most commonly see is, "why is alcohol legal and pot isn't?"  It's a good question.  Alcohol can potentially cause a much more dangerous situation.  Do you want a teenager drunk as hell driving on the road?  Or a paranoid teenager stoner, driving under the speed limit?

You make a good point although where I live, in California, alcohol is not legal for teens but the reasoning is sound.

Being ignorant about such things, could you answer this. Do you think a person under the influence of alcohol, would be more or less likely to decide to drive in that state than someone equally impaired by pot?

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #72 on: Wed, 24 October 2012, 20:28:05 »
In theory, I am in favor of legalizing just about anything, however, driving under the influence of just about anything is inherently more dangerous than driving without the influence of anything.

As I am now in the process of teaching my 15 year old daughter to drive, I am more acutely aware than ever of just how deadly and treacherous going out onto the highways and byways in a moving vehicle can be.

In the comfort and safety of your own home - knock yourself out!

On the roads where you are a deadly weapon careening directly towards dozens or thousands of innocent people - look out!
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Offline alaricljs

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #73 on: Wed, 24 October 2012, 20:31:46 »
The worst is when you are under the influence and you THINK you are just fine.  Like when you're drinking coffee (or soda or whatever), or eating that Big Mac, or texting, or having a serious conversation  (even with people in the same car). 

People don't take driving seriously enough.
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Offline sth

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #74 on: Wed, 24 October 2012, 20:52:43 »
i would say (completely unscientifically) that it's plausible that people drive better under the influence of cannabis than under the influence of alcohol. that said, your attention span is easily realigned under the influence of cannabis, so what could start as a very resolved 'i'm going to drive super safe because i know i'm stoned' can quickly become 'whoaaaa the sky looks amazing right now.'

i am 100% for complete decriminalization for both medicinal and recreational use. 100% against taxation. seriously. we need to spend the money we're already using from taxation a hell of a lot better before we infuse the government with a new vice cash cow.... let alone the fact that vice taxes effectively make a government more reliant on "x' vice than the users/participants of the vice itself. we pretty much ****ed ourselves on cigarettes - do you think the US will ever outlaw tobacco products based on the level of taxation at this point?

this is not the first post by me advocating decrim+no taxes but i think i forgot my position on vice taxation and how that affects my view, so that's what's up with the department of redundancy department.
« Last Edit: Wed, 24 October 2012, 20:55:04 by sth »
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Offline kurplop

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #75 on: Wed, 24 October 2012, 21:08:25 »
So are you suggesting that there be no gov't oversight in the growing, processing, distribution and selling of pot? Because if there is, wouldn't it be reasonable to at least recoup the cost of regulating it?

Offline sth

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #76 on: Wed, 24 October 2012, 21:10:15 »
taxation for regulation perhaps, i hadn't given that much thought to it. but states could easily add further taxes to it like they do with cigarettes.
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Offline kurplop

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #77 on: Wed, 24 October 2012, 21:12:48 »
I don't think California would do that. Do you?

Offline sth

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #78 on: Wed, 24 October 2012, 21:14:54 »
california needs all the tax money it can get. i wouldn't be surprised.
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Offline Goliath

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #79 on: Wed, 24 October 2012, 23:12:44 »
california needs all the tax money it can get. i wouldn't be surprised.

True dat! lol
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Offline DanGWanG

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #80 on: Tue, 30 October 2012, 00:42:10 »

Offline WRXChris

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #81 on: Tue, 30 October 2012, 01:21:13 »
All i gotta say is life is good right now in CO.  The town I live in legalized up to an ounce for 21-year-olds a couple of years ago, but that makes total sense since I live in forward-thinking freedom land! 

It sure is nice to know that if I get pulled over my stinky bag of weed is akin to a 6-pack of beer; as long as I'm not partaking while driving it's all good!

Now with the Amendment 64 vote a week away, CO may become the first state to legalize for recreational use for anyone 21, even non-CO-residents...  Sure will be a boon for tourism if it passes! 

Offline DarkShot

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #82 on: Fri, 02 November 2012, 21:09:25 »
This thread is very relative to my interests and I'll read through it and edit this post should it be needed.

I watched this documentary on Marijuana last night, and it was surprising how much there is to everything.

Before I go any further, I am passively-for the legalization of MJ, and have never seen a reason to be against. I'm speaking distribute it as a controlled substance in the same method that cigarettes and alcohol is done.

Unfortunately, we're relatively far off from that in this day and age. Up here in Canada things are looking much better, but for the most part there's still a long way to go.

My thing is how long it's been drilled into our heads that weed is worse than cigarettes and booze for us. I had a talk with my mother who found out my 15 year old brother has been smoking cigs. She doesn't want him to do it and of course he gets punished, but the comment about him possibly lighting up a joint came up and she said she'd kick him out of the house. I've heard that there are others who think in a very similar mindset, and I believe that one of the key factors in bringing this forward is to re-educate those who think in this mindset. People can still have their preferences, but they should at least understand that having a drink after work every day or smoking a pack a week does far more damage than what weed ever could.

Offline JoeC

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #83 on: Fri, 02 November 2012, 23:15:23 »
All i gotta say is life is good right now in CO.  The town I live in legalized up to an ounce for 21-year-olds a couple of years ago, but that makes total sense since I live in forward-thinking freedom land! 

It sure is nice to know that if I get pulled over my stinky bag of weed is akin to a 6-pack of beer; as long as I'm not partaking while driving it's all good!

Now with the Amendment 64 vote a week away, CO may become the first state to legalize for recreational use for anyone 21, even non-CO-residents...  Sure will be a boon for tourism if it passes! 
I used to live in 'Somewhat County' CO.  I remember when the medicinal law first became active, (I did vote yes, btw).  My question to you is, do the Breck cops still drive those dark blue Land Cruisers?
Oh, and going through Blue River (northbound Hwy9)  are those people still throwing shoes on the powerlines?  Seems like every 2 weeks it was a different pair of shoes/boots.... 3 years since I've moved away.
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Offline WRXChris

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #84 on: Sat, 03 November 2012, 00:27:58 »
I used to live in 'Somewhat County' CO.  I remember when the medicinal law first became active, (I did vote yes, btw).  My question to you is, do the Breck cops still drive those dark blue Land Cruisers?
Oh, and going through Blue River (northbound Hwy9)  are those people still throwing shoes on the powerlines?  Seems like every 2 weeks it was a different pair of shoes/boots.... 3 years since I've moved away.

Thank you for your yes vote, although I don't have a red card and have no intention of getting one, it was a necessary step toward full legalization (Americans are incapable of coping with drastic change, I think).

I just moved here a week and a half ago so my answers probably wont be fully accurate!  The Breck police do drive dark colored SUVs, but I've only seen them at night and didn't pay attention to whether they were Land Cruisers or American SUVs.  I'm definitely intrigued though, so I'll try to confirm this tomorrow!

I live just south of Blue River between Mount Quandary and North Star, so I drive through Blue River every day and haven't noticed any shoes.  Maybe that group of jackasses moved, lol.

Offline JoeC

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #85 on: Sat, 03 November 2012, 02:33:01 »
Ok.
We all know that the footwear on the powerline is a signal for dealing... so it is a good thing they are gone now.
On the otherhand, I do know the addresses of a few growhouses out there, on the ridge above Dillon Valley.  But they were the suppliers for the store next to the 7/11, upstairs from Blue River Liquors.  IDK if BRL is still there?  Across the street from the 7/11.   Does Brother Nathaneal still dance on the median/corner there? 
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Offline Malphas

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #86 on: Sat, 03 November 2012, 10:47:17 »
Can someone tell Malphas about this thread? He seems to think income tax is more viable for some strange reason.
Probably because it's vastly easier to calculate, much fairer, and is actually capable of generating the revenue required to run a first world country. Unlike the backward medieval idea of "sin taxes" you're such a proponent of, which we established basically boiled down to "I don't want to pay income tax for the protection and services provided by my government, so why not apply a ton of tax on things like drugs instead and make them pay for it, so I can have a free ride?" Which you tried to play off as being because income tax was somehow morally wrong, rather than the more obvious explanation of it just being selfishness and immaturity.

Offline Malphas

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #87 on: Sat, 03 November 2012, 10:48:23 »
My word, I just realised how ancient this thread is. What is this doing up near the top of the page?

Offline absyrd

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #88 on: Sat, 03 November 2012, 11:21:34 »
My word, I just realised how ancient this thread is. What is this doing up near the top of the page?

It was in DanGWanG's subforum, and since that was closed it became more public and gained a new, larger audience.

And as far as that health chart goes, among my very small immediate family we have 7/10 (combined) of the conditions it is said to benefit. Would be very interesting to actually have the ability to test it out!
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Offline DanGWanG

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #89 on: Sat, 03 November 2012, 11:43:12 »
My word, I just realised how ancient this thread is. What is this doing up near the top of the page?

It was in DanGWanG's subforum, and since that was closed it became more public and gained a new, larger audience.

And as far as that health chart goes, among my very small immediate family we have 7/10 (combined) of the conditions it is said to benefit. Would be very interesting to actually have the ability to test it out!

Under a controlled environment and moderated/healthy intake, a test would never hurt.  You'll never know unless you try!

Offline DanGWanG

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #90 on: Sat, 03 November 2012, 11:50:30 »
Can someone tell Malphas about this thread? He seems to think income tax is more viable for some strange reason.
Probably because it's vastly easier to calculate, much fairer, and is actually capable of generating the revenue required to run a first world country. Unlike the backward medieval idea of "sin taxes" you're such a proponent of, which we established basically boiled down to "I don't want to pay income tax for the protection and services provided by my government, so why not apply a ton of tax on things like drugs instead and make them pay for it, so I can have a free ride?" Which you tried to play off as being because income tax was somehow morally wrong, rather than the more obvious explanation of it just being selfishness and immaturity.

Quick question -- Do you know how much the marijuana industry currently yields yearly?  In the 3 states (Colorado, Oregon and Washington) voting to legalize marijuana for recreational use, the Mexican cartel ALONE generates approximately $4.5 billion.  That doesn't include dispensaries, private home grown sales, etc.

While I'd agree, on the large scale, income tax is likely easier to integrate especially since it's already in place.  Taxation on "drugs" is merely a method of complementing existing structures and foundations.  Why would it NOT be appealing to states with lots of debt? Sin taxes don't only have negative effects, but also attracts tourism.  Income tax and sales tax on "drugs" go hand in hand.

Offline WRXChris

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #91 on: Sat, 03 November 2012, 12:04:27 »
I feel like I should add to the medical end of the discussion.  I have had pretty severe ADHD my entire life.  In college I discovered adderall and it helped significantly, but the teeth gnashing, nervousness/sweating, and loss of appetite/weight loss all drove me crazy.  Let's be honest, Adderall is a milder form of crystal meth, and because it must be synthesized in a lab and can't be grown by anyone with water and soil, it is acceptable by our ****ed up profit-centric government.

Enter marijuana.  As soon as I started smoking daily, I was able to stop using adderall and my grades improved significantly; all of the sudden I was on the dean's list every semester up until graduation, and even had a couple 'straight A' semesters.  I felt healthier and happier, and haven't skipped a beat since.  I still smoke daily because I enjoy it, and because it is the absolute best thing I've found to help me cope with my ADHD.  I have no intention of stopping using it for any reason for the rest of my life, if I do it will have to be replaced with something more harmful and dangerous, and to me, that is ****ed up.  Opponents of medicinal or even full legalization are just brainwashed government patsys.

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #92 on: Sat, 03 November 2012, 12:22:28 »
I can offer this opinion:
I think that if there is a certain level of decriminalization, crime syndicates won't be able to make the huge amounts of money anymore and the related crime associated may be reduced. And the amount of people in jail cells seems to be counterproductive. The action of jailing people with small amounts certainly hasn't shown to improve anything.

In California the dispensaries are making huge amounts of money, much of it is not the little personal consumption indoor grown boutique material at the front counter, but instead the fields of outdoor grown laden trucks that pass through after hours. There are other 'hidden hands' involved with most of these operations. Don't be fooled and think otherwise, that's just naive. Take the profit out of it and you'll get to what the original law that was passed in California in the mid-90's was about. Providing medical marijuana to people that need it for medicinal purposes and the channel partners are doing it as a non-profit business model.

Possibly some decriminalization, massive regulation, taxation, and go from there.

I don't have a clear idea or answer, but I believe we can do better than what we're doing now.

FUN FACTS:
For 1 pound (as part of a 6 pound grow) $250 cost to grow indoor , if it's excellent, sell to bay area dispensary $2,500-$3,500 winter 2011-2012, wait 30-60 days to be paid. 5-6 months cycle start-to-payday. Oh yea, theres' risk.
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Offline keycapbrah

  • Posts: 1
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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #93 on: Sat, 03 November 2012, 12:36:53 »
I feel like I should add to the medical end of the discussion.  I have had pretty severe ADHD my entire life.  In college I discovered adderall and it helped significantly, but the teeth gnashing, nervousness/sweating, and loss of appetite/weight loss all drove me crazy.  Let's be honest, Adderall is a milder form of crystal meth, and because it must be synthesized in a lab and can't be grown by anyone with water and soil, it is acceptable by our ****ed up profit-centric government.

Enter marijuana.  As soon as I started smoking daily, I was able to stop using adderall and my grades improved significantly; all of the sudden I was on the dean's list every semester up until graduation, and even had a couple 'straight A' semesters.  I felt healthier and happier, and haven't skipped a beat since.  I still smoke daily because I enjoy it, and because it is the absolute best thing I've found to help me cope with my ADHD.  I have no intention of stopping using it for any reason for the rest of my life, if I do it will have to be replaced with something more harmful and dangerous, and to me, that is ****ed up.  Opponents of medicinal or even full legalization are just brainwashed government patsys.

While I agree that our government and more so our society as a whole is generally centralized around increasing profit and revenue, it isn't everything. If this were true then the government would legalize and tax the sale of marijuana. The government, believe it or not, attempts to keep the general public from making poor decisions because people are stupid. Why do you think there are laws that enforce the use of seatbelts? And no, I don't necessarily agree with the government on a lot of decisions but you can't say that they solely operate for generating income.

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #94 on: Sat, 03 November 2012, 12:41:11 »
Remember, this country was founded by a group with very puritanical beliefs. Religious freedom....
That may explain why we don't have nude beaches, and don't legalize pot, and a few other things...

I dunno, just rambling this morning as I'm applying for jobs online before I starve to death.....
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Colemak
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
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Offline WRXChris

  • Posts: 487
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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #95 on: Sat, 03 November 2012, 13:07:48 »
If this were true then the government would legalize and tax the sale of marijuana.

I completely disagree.  The modern two-party government is funded entirely by large donations from corporations, not from individuals.  Most legislation these days are to appease the interests of those that keep the D's and R's in power (think pharmaceutical companies who want to protect their revenue streams from the synthetic drugs that could be replaced by marijuana, or printing companies who are heavily vested in pulp-based paper production who would be competed out of business if much cheaper (and environmentally friendly) hemp-based competitors were allowed to enter their markets, etc.).

Most of the policies we see today are to protect the interests of corporations who lobby with millions of dollars to prevent governmental reform in areas that would benefit society but hurt their bottom line.  If their interests were aligned with those of the general public, they wouldn't have to spend large sums money to sway politicians because there would already be unanimous support.

Sure the government is occasionally looking out for the safety of individuals with things like seatbelt laws and texting while driving laws, but I can't think of many legislations passed in recent years that aren't corporatist policies enacted purely to appease the interests of major political contributors. 

Read the first couple paragraphs of this webpage (most importantly the "Beliefs" section) and tell me that it isn't scary how well modern America fits the bill of fascism...
« Last Edit: Sat, 03 November 2012, 13:44:40 by WRXChris »

Offline WRXChris

  • Posts: 487
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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #96 on: Sat, 03 November 2012, 14:04:40 »
I guess I'm introducing a separate argument, you're right that the government isn't entirely about profit, and I suppose my point is that they are very selective about who is allowed to take the profit, and in the last decade in particular the 'rules' have been heavily manipulated by the ultra rich that control the big corporations and have pools of millions of dollars to accomplish their goals.  In 2008, Obama and McCain spent a record  $1 billion combined in the presidential race; in 2012, Obama and Romney have already spent $2 billion.  This money isn't coming from 'Joe the Plumber', and when you think about it, this money is being wrongly siphoned from shareholders and investors and written off as an operating expense..  This isn't capitalism, this is fascism.

Legislation that benefits corporations with deep pockets and hurts the average citizen only serve to weaken the country.  The ultra rich have bought their way into politics and found a way to do so without even spending their own money, and they are the reason we haven't seen reform sooner on issues such as marijuana.  They have been able to keep enough of the population brainwashed into thinking that smoking marijuana is the same thing as shooting up heroin, while at the same time convincing those same people to buy synthetic heroin for pain management...  They are also lobbying against immigration reform (and drug reform) because they are making money in the privatized prisons in some of our southern states (look into GEO group and CCA).  The internet is still free enough for the future generations to see the truth in these matters, but the ultra rich are lobbying hard to end that with legislations such as SOPA and PIPA.

Sorry to sound all Occupy, but I strongly believe in everything I've said.  If America continues down this path, I'm confident that even those who disagree with my views will eventually see that I was right, and by then it will be too late.
« Last Edit: Sat, 03 November 2012, 14:06:38 by WRXChris »

Offline Malphas

  • Posts: 247
Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #97 on: Sat, 03 November 2012, 19:06:29 »
Can someone tell Malphas about this thread? He seems to think income tax is more viable for some strange reason.
Probably because it's vastly easier to calculate, much fairer, and is actually capable of generating the revenue required to run a first world country. Unlike the backward medieval idea of "sin taxes" you're such a proponent of, which we established basically boiled down to "I don't want to pay income tax for the protection and services provided by my government, so why not apply a ton of tax on things like drugs instead and make them pay for it, so I can have a free ride?" Which you tried to play off as being because income tax was somehow morally wrong, rather than the more obvious explanation of it just being selfishness and immaturity.

Quick question -- Do you know how much the marijuana industry currently yields yearly?  In the 3 states (Colorado, Oregon and Washington) voting to legalize marijuana for recreational use, the Mexican cartel ALONE generates approximately $4.5 billion.  That doesn't include dispensaries, private home grown sales, etc.

While I'd agree, on the large scale, income tax is likely easier to integrate especially since it's already in place.  Taxation on "drugs" is merely a method of complementing existing structures and foundations.  Why would it NOT be appealing to states with lots of debt? Sin taxes don't only have negative effects, but also attracts tourism.  Income tax and sales tax on "drugs" go hand in hand.

I'm not anti-legalisation. But taxes on a particular industry should be limited to paying for the costs associated with that industry, i.e. revenue from road tax should be used for road building/maintenance, not for general revenue, which is ethically dubious in my opinion. Things like recreational drugs, polluting industries, etc. are all easy targets for "sin tax" because they're supposedly intrinsically "bad" and therefore the tax can be seen as a punitive measure, when it's simply an excuse to generate revenue dishonestly.  This goes back to another thread from ages back where keyboardlover was suggesting income tax was morally wrong and hypocritically suggesting that governments should just tax weed and prostitution etc. instead, as if that's remotely fairer or even plausible.

Offline funkymeeba

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #98 on: Mon, 05 November 2012, 16:37:41 »
I guess I'm introducing a separate argument, you're right that the government isn't entirely about profit, and I suppose my point is that they are very selective about who is allowed to take the profit, and in the last decade in particular the 'rules' have been heavily manipulated by the ultra rich that control the big corporations and have pools of millions of dollars to accomplish their goals.  In 2008, Obama and McCain spent a record  $1 billion combined in the presidential race; in 2012, Obama and Romney have already spent $2 billion.  This money isn't coming from 'Joe the Plumber', and when you think about it, this money is being wrongly siphoned from shareholders and investors and written off as an operating expense..  This isn't capitalism, this is fascism.

Legislation that benefits corporations with deep pockets and hurts the average citizen only serve to weaken the country.  The ultra rich have bought their way into politics and found a way to do so without even spending their own money, and they are the reason we haven't seen reform sooner on issues such as marijuana.  They have been able to keep enough of the population brainwashed into thinking that smoking marijuana is the same thing as shooting up heroin, while at the same time convincing those same people to buy synthetic heroin for pain management...  They are also lobbying against immigration reform (and drug reform) because they are making money in the privatized prisons in some of our southern states (look into GEO group and CCA).  The internet is still free enough for the future generations to see the truth in these matters, but the ultra rich are lobbying hard to end that with legislations such as SOPA and PIPA.

Sorry to sound all Occupy, but I strongly believe in everything I've said.  If America continues down this path, I'm confident that even those who disagree with my views will eventually see that I was right, and by then it will be too late.

Amen, brother.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: [Discussion] Economic effects of legalizing Medical Marijuana
« Reply #99 on: Mon, 05 November 2012, 20:29:17 »
To veer off on another bit of a tangent, the 1886 Supreme Court ruling that established the precedent that a corporation is a person with all the 14th Amendment privileges of personhood opened Pandora's Box to what we see today.

I am afraid that nothing short of a constitutional amendment defining personhood is going to solve any of these problems, if even that would be sufficient at this late date.

This is, obviously, a minefield, since we all intuitively understand that real human society would best be served by the narrowest possible definition of personhood, yet forces from all sides are pulling mightily to change the age-old and universal understanding that a "person" is a natural-born member of the homo sapiens species who has not yet (permanently) died.

Personally (no pun intended), I am currently far more worried about non-meat entities being persons than I am about which sub-set of homo sapiens ectoplasm falls into the definition de jour (but, obviously, I am 100% pro-choice and pro-hemlock). However, rapid advances in laboratory technique makes meat intelligence a looming threat of monumental proportions, as well. 

Within my children's lifetimes, if not in mine, these issues will become monstrous, and we would be well served to start addressing them now, as a national or planetary society.
From the US Constitution, Article 1, Section 8 :

The   Congress   shall have Power
To declare War,  grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To provide for calling forth the Militia  to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;