WTF??? Moderator gone wild???? What is this???

[Input Nirvana]

This is from a thread Mkawa started and closed in the classifieds subforum....

Hold on to your hat and read #2a, #2b, and #3:

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My responses to Mkawa...I'm obviously unhappy with the lack of responsibility and excuses from a mod....

#2a - I've got news for you, GH is the total collective community of forum members, and you obviously don't comprehend that. Where possible you would like to serve the community, BUT you're an agent of iMav??? IMav enlisted you so you can SERVE the COMMUNITY. Really, why did you become a mod in the first place? For a couple free key caps?? Get your head on straight because you have the wrong perspective. It sounds like you are on a power trip and want to be the bad guy martyr. I'm unimpressed with this. GH has taken a large step backward with this.

#2b - So you are basically saying you are unwilling/unable to do the job and all it entails, so you will just shut out open discussion, which is what a forum is. Shut out what you don't want to hear. That's a small-minded and lazy unimpressive Gestapo tactic. Another big step backwards.

#3 - Is this your excuse for being an ass? If you can't do the job well, then back down and don't do it at all. It's not our problem you can't deal with people, that's YOUR issue Mkawa...so work on it and stop making excuses for your inadequate behavior. I may consider constructive comments of course, but so should you, even more so as a mod. If you're not ready to be one because you need training on how to be human, step aside and let others that are better at it do the job correctly. No bs excuses. A HUGE step in the wrong direction with this.

iMav....maybe a re-evaluation of some of people you would like to have represent the best interests of the entire GH community. Fix the problem or replace it.

Mkawa...feel free to pm me to work out your issues if you want, because at this point, it's a fail. Strive to be better.

[Malphas]

Aha, comes across as very douchey, but I've yet to see any actual problems here from the moderation at least.

[sth]

Oof. Take a break. Walk around the park or something.

[Input Nirvana]

Oof. Take a break. Walk around the park or something.

No doubt! lol

It's just stupid and avoidable. I couldn't let it go.

[itlnstln]

I'm watching this thread.  I would like to see some constructive criticism here that we as mods can learn from, so I am going to leave this open. When taken constructively, Input Nirvana has some great points. If this turns into "attack mkawa," however, I will close (but not delete) the thread.

[Roguemaster8]

#2b is the only one I really take issue with.

It'a not like all of Geekhack must agree before a mod makes a decision, but at least be open about it. The excuse "...invites non-productive argument more then productive argument..."  is an assumption that everyone but the moderators are children who need to be scolded and put in line.

I'm watching this thread.  I would like to see some constructive criticism here that we as mods can learn from, so I am going to leave this open. When taken constructively, Input Nirvana has some great points. If this turns into "attack mkawa," however, I will close (but not delete) the thread.

This is excellent, observation is key to good moderation in my opinion.

[keyboardlover]

So far there are two mods I'm very unimpressed by. One is cactux (c'mon 'penis' is NOT offensive). The other is mkawa.

Regarding mkawa's post:

1) Threadcrapping: We are going to be taking a solid, consistent stand on threadcrapping. For the time being, if you aren't interested in buying an item, simply stay out of the seller's thread, live and let live, and so on.

Proposal: If you aren't interested in buying from a seller, STAY OUT OF HIS/HER THREAD. Repeat offenders put themselves in danger of moderator action.

If this means that saying things like "GLWS" or "GLWA" are going to be banned, I disagree with it. You need to make it VERY clear exactly what threadcrapping is. To me, threadcrapping consists of negative discussion about the sale which could dissuade potential buyers.

2) Bumping: We are going to highly discourage bumping, as many are starting to feel that there has been an excessive level of self-bumps in some threads recently. Although this activity may not be explicitly malicious, it makes it more difficult for those that are more polite to sell items, and we would like to keep the forum fair for all users.

Proposal: You must wait a minimum of (somewhere between 24-)48 hours between bumps.

I think daily bumps should be fine.

3) Thread Closure: We would like sellers to close their threads after a sale is complete. This may allow some window for discussion, but again, to be fair to other sellers, we would like to avoid having "chat" threads develop post-sale that crowd out legitimate new advertisements.

Proposal: Close the thread once both users leave iTrader feedback.

Fine with me, but I think this should be, for the most part, at the OP's discretion and if mods close they should provide a clear and legitimate reason.

4) Pricing: We would like sellers to a) explicitly name their asking prices and b) not edit those prices out post-sale. this would allow the forum archives to be a useful price discovery mechanism.

Fine by me.

5) Auctions: Many auction threads have been highly contentious among the userbase, and are the most oft-reported threads in classifieds. Some of us are of the opinions that auctions should be either moved to a separate subforum, made public bid only (ie, no silent auctions), and/or banned entirely.

Proposal: No auctions at all. FS posts must include asking price. Highly suggested not to edit out asking price post-sale.

I disagree entirely. But even so, what about linking to ebay auctions? That wasn't disallowed before. Either way, I think both should be allowed.

6) Member Feedback Forum: We would like to deprecate this forum completely, closing it to new posts.

Fine by me.

[Soarer]

I think input nirvana weakens any case he has by making too many points. It reads more like a personal attack, than constructive criticism (no offense, buddy).

2a - GH has never been a democracy! Sure, it got a little Lord of the Flies at times, but it is essentially a benevolent dictatorship. For the mods to act as iMav directs seems perfectly appropriate to me. It's not like we pay a membership fee!

2b - likewise, transparency is irrelevant for the same reason.

3 - this comment seems perfectly frank, and just says he can be blunt. So can iMav.

I don't know what the prior communication was that sparked this all off, but I don't see anything in that post that deserves a new thread. If there's a perceived problem with a mod just tell iMav and let him sort it out privately.

[funxion]

Going to stay neutral on this one, but in all honesty, moderation of these forums needs to be approached very cautiously and in a gradual fashion.

I'm a newer member, but it seems to me like this is a new step in the right direction if the select mods can do their job correctly and efficiently.

With that being said, the mods are still members of the community and it would only make sense to be made aware of any thread closures, deletions, and other matters that affect the community collectively.

It's a community forum, so despite what one may think, moderation is intended for the community.

[Soarer]

I personally don't like auctions on forums, but appreciate that for some items, it's the only real way to value an item.

An auction subforum would be fine though, at least auction threads wouldn't be pushing all the regular sale threads down all the time (should help to reduce the desire to bump those, too), and it's easier to ignore.

Threadcrapping - this should include regular discussion threads. Sometimes it's clear that a poster only wishes to disrupt, rather than argue a point.

[Input Nirvana]

I'm watching this thread.  I would like to see some constructive criticism here that we as mods can learn from, so I am going to leave this open. When taken constructively, Input Nirvana has some great points. If this turns into "attack mkawa," however, I will close (but not delete) the thread.

Importantly, especially when in a position of guidance (ie; employer, mod, parent, etc,) you illicit the best most productive responses and actions together as a team with a common goal. Not separating, defining, and secretly acting behind the scenes, or making excuses. See the bigger picture, stand tall and have others stand tall with you.

You go to Las Vegas. You win and you lose, the key is to maximize your winnings and minimize your losses. There will inevitably be negatives so you move past them productively by using them as a building experience. Might as well get some long term positive out of a single negative. Done right, it serves as a positive reminder.

My issue here (as stated before) is for a change in perspective by Mkawa and no weird "it never happened deletions (with some obvious nasty exceptions)". I assume he means well, but I believe his implementation sucks (I have a number of fails in my portfolio as well, reference the Summer of Ping!). The very moment a mod fails to recognize what the strengths of GH are, they are doomed to drag GH into the bastion of ****ty internet forums. GH has a little piece of magic, it's delicate, so don't F it up. If you are hell bent on sanitizing GH rather than improving (note the difference), you'll sanitize the very real and flawed people that ARE the community and that help make GH magic.

Everyone (mods and non-mods) might start of being a lot more humble, never make excuses for your shortcomings, understand you're not special, remember that you are lucky, and most of all that being here is a privilege, not a right.

To clarify my perspective....

IMav is a facilitator, and he is aware of it. That completely explains his outlook on moderation the past years. The forum members are the community which in turn is 100% of what GH is. It's not the other way around. Thanks for being a great facilitator iMav! IMav needs to maximize his efforts, and that is the only reason anyone has the word 'mod' associated with their screen name. Don't forget that. I don't believe iMav wants to change GH, he just wants to tighten up a few loose ends and improve a couple aspects to make it stronger. And there is plenty of room for that, I've not said a single word to counter the improvements at GH.

Again....
No mystery deletes without explanations...(there's no long term learning from this, right?)
And an improved outlook from a mod....(maybe should team up with another mod to get better at the job, right?)

[boost]

I noticed a few of these thread popping up...looking to see how this plays out.

Input and kl yall got my support

[DanGWanG]

Did iMav handpick the moderators based on some requirements?  Or were people who signed up pretty much all accepted? lol...

[Reptile]

Wait who said we get free keycaps?

[boost]

Wait who said we get free keycaps?

That's the word in the hood...

[Quarzac]

2a- I agree, for the most part. Though I think the free key-cap comment was made as a jest, because I have not been informed of any such thing. I don't think mkawa phrased his original statement entirely correctly.  I doubt that he intended for it to be read as you did, yet your interpretation is understandable.

2b- Transparency has been discussed. The current policy sits at essentially, if a mod makes a change, they must inform the user of why they were moderated, so that no one is left in the dark. This strikes me as effective, as the user will then know who was responsible for the moderation, and should they need to call attention to it, they have the necessary resources.

3- I agree with you. I am a technical person. I am a straightforward chap as well. I've been described as brutally honest, sometimes a little too brutal, and that's accurate. However, that does not prevent me from tactfully dealing with other people. Using social ineptitude as an excuse for failing to appropriately deal with people does not sit well with me, as, especially in a friendly environment such as GH, adjustments to the way you conduct yourself for the sake of others should not be terribly difficult.

[sth]

3- I agree with you. I am a technical person. I am a straightforward chap as well. I've been described as brutally honest, sometimes a little too brutal, and that's accurate. However, that does not prevent me from tactfully dealing with other people. Using social ineptitude as an excuse for failing to appropriately deal with people does not sit well with me, as, especially in a friendly environment such as GH, adjustments to the way you conduct yourself for the sake of others should not be terribly difficult.

By George, I  think he's got it!

[keyboardlover]

I'm a Technical Lead where I work. If I couldn't work well with people, I probably wouldn't have a job.

From what I've found, technical folks who don't have people skills are typically not good at what they do.

[Input Nirvana]

You guys, I'm just a macho, geeky idiot that wanted to cut his ****ing keyboard into 2 pieces. That's all, nothing more. Anything else I've done here is flak. (unless I helped anyone with anything they might have needed)

For your own sakes, DON'T let GH take a wrong turn by biting of your nose to spite your face. It's easy to do, I know this. Improve the tools being put in place to improve YOUR community. It's about people, always has been, always will be. The rules are to serve the people, not the other way around.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll do a great job

[keyboardlover]

If only "moderators gone wild" was as enticing as it sounded.



Hey, is that ItlnStln on the box cover?

[keyboardlover]

I think we should listen to this guy fossala.

We should ban auctions.

Because we are such an enthusastic group we get carried away and auctions for 2 keycaps end at $200.

Wait a minute...

Do you regret purchasing it?

Nah.

I do hope auctions are here to stay. My haters are my motivators.

And what about linking to ebay auctions?

IMO the TRUE problem is threadcrapping! If we moderate TRUE threadcrapping, more than half of the problems in the classifieds will be solved.

[sth]

What about... threadcrapping ONLY allowed in auctions?

[cactux]

So far there are two mods I'm very unimpressed by. One is cactux (c'mon 'penis' is NOT offensive). The other is mkawa.

Regarding mkawa's post:



If this means that saying things like "GLWS" or "GLWA" are going to be banned, I disagree with it. You need to make it VERY clear exactly what threadcrapping is. To me, threadcrapping consists of negative discussion about the sale which could dissuade potential buyers.



I think daily bumps should be fine.



Fine with me, but I think this should be, for the most part, at the OP's discretion and if mods close they should provide a clear and legitimate reason.



Fine by me.



I disagree entirely. But even so, what about linking to ebay auctions? That wasn't disallowed before. Either way, I think both should be allowed.



Fine by me.

I had some complains from users regarding this issue and I talk to ripster regarding this. I know GH is  not a church, but some users are susceptible to this.

I would love to here any of your "constructive" comments in the mods forum.

[net2522]

What's wrong with auction?  Then put the price on and sell it straight away.
Do you think it'll make different.

[keyboardlover]

I would love to here any of your "constructive" comments in the mods forum.

Where is that?

[captain]

If this means that saying things like "GLWS" or "GLWA" are going to be banned, I disagree with it. You need to make it VERY clear exactly what threadcrapping is. To me, threadcrapping consists of negative discussion about the sale which could dissuade potential buyers.
.

It seems that all KL cares about is usurious selling of stuff to his financial benefit. The term "threadcrapping" should be thrown out entirely, IMHO. If something is OFF TOPIC, then it doesn't belong. If a comment in a usurious sales thread is educating poor suckers that they are being ripped off, that is ON TOPIC. GH is not here to be your shill. It's here to further the hobby of keyboard lovers, not just KL.

We already have a **** **** damn piss hell auto word blocker, so let vulgarity sensitivity go already. We are all big kids here and words aren't going to burn our little ears.

Things that should be "moderated":

Hateful posts: libel/slander, etc.
Language that comes across as melodramatic, if it seems to be raising emotions in others too.
Bad grammar and spelling.
Off topic, if it is requested that the thread be a one topic thread.

It's part of gh's charm that we have lively discussions. Quenching that will kill the community and the site.


Also, look up the word moderate. I don't think it equates to censor. ;-). Moderators should contact the "offender" privately, and politely offer an opinion on the post in question. Done tactfully, any editing could be done by the poster, thereby enabling everyone to be responsible for himself. Maybe I have too much faith in y'all's maturity. I've been guilty of expecting too much from people before.

[funxion]

I got the shot as well...I was sore for two days and then I was back to normal.

Definitely advise anyone who is in the age range to get this vaccine. It prevents you from carrying HPV as well as transferring it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[net2522]

(-_- ")

[Awful]

Anyone else afraid the forums are going to go down the ****ter? I don't want to post on Overclocked I'm afraid of the bearded ladies on Deskthority.

[demik]

eh, i've mentioned to mkawa that he's getting too into this forum police deal.

this whole we're agents of imav is too much. at the end of the day, we delete and edit posts. not saving the world one troll at a time.

[net2522]

^

[Input Nirvana]

eh, i've mentioned to mkawa that he's getting too into this forum police deal.

this whole we're agents of imav is too much. at the end of the day, we delete and edit posts. not saving the world one troll at a time.

Exactly.

Thanks.

[Input Nirvana]

Back to the safety and security of Dangwangs subforum....

[Lanx]

if you're a mod, can you ignore users? i wonder how that works.

[fossala]

if you're a mod, can you ignore users? i wonder how that works.

You can, but  I wouldn't advise it.

[captain]

What are we modding today?  Is that like pimping?

[metafour]

Things that should be "moderated":

Bad grammar and spelling.

I think this should be their top priority. Then they will literally have no time to moderate anything else.

Problem solved!

[keyboardlover]

Anyone else afraid the forums are going to go down the ****ter? I don't want to post on Overclocked I'm afraid of the bearded ladies on Deskthority.

Church!

(Gangsta talk for "QFT!")

And btw, anyone who's crying about auctions or click clack sales should've been here a couple years ago when SSKs were getting hawked in the forums for ginormous profits! You should have seen all the threadcrapping then! And you know what ripster's response always was?

[kps]

I've moderated on web forums, and mailing lists back before there were web forums. It is a thankless task, as it is impossible to make everyone happy, and the people who benefit from moderation generally don't even know it's happening.

My advice for site owners and moderators: Make guidelines for moderators that are as clear as possible. Moderators should indicate why a post is deleted, but moderators and owners should not engage in discussion with the poster, as this leads to an endless drain of wasted time and effort.

My advice for posters: Nothing on the intertubes is worth getting upset about.

[Gawkbasher]

It sure as hell seems like the whole damned forum has lost its ****ing mind with this moderation and the reactions to it the last few days.

The situation is ugly right now and I may just start solely reading the classifieds from here on...

[keyboardlover]

It sure as hell seems like the whole damned forum has lost its ****ing mind with this moderation and the reactions to it the last few days.

Don't forget to vote!

The situation is ugly right now and I may just start solely reading the classifieds from here on...

See the "only here for the potatoes" poll option.

[Reptile]

For real I think it will blow over. I have honestly moved like 2 threads with my mod powers because it was something that needed to be fixed. I disagree with the classifieds rules sticky how it was just left and closed like that. I will try to talk to mkawa and see what we will come up with.

I was thinking of having a moderator only poll (don't know if this is possible?) and picking some general rules for classifieds. Nothing too crazy but to just have some organization.

[Malphas]

A moderator censored the word "penis"?  What the hell, ha ha.  That's not profanity, it's an anatomical word.

[Daniel Beaver]

You guys need to chill. The forums are fine.


...

penis

[keyboardlover]

You guys need to chill. The forums are fine.


...

penis

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFfffffffffff

[net2522]

Relax!!

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[eth0s]

Peniz?

[o2dazone]

boy you ****in nerds take keyboards seriously

[MyNameIsFinn]

Balls, that is all.

If that is offensive that you shouldn't be on the forum.

By overly moderating you are taking the fun out of geekhack, stop ****ing this website over and let us chill.

We don't need babysitters

[Zamorph]

I agree with keyboardlover, that somethings need to be specific like thread crapping.  I know everyone's opinion of what a mod should be is different but I think mods should just be a member of the community and step in when something clearly is out of line.  I feel warnings should be given out, but again its hard to judge sometimes when someone is being insulting or just joking around ( Because its online duh ).  But again, this goes back to needing firm guidelines.  That's why as of now, I think being cautious is the way to go.  I was looking to try to clean up some of the member's poll section, but it is hard for me to judge what I should keep in there or not, thus why I am making baby steps, if any.