hhkb pro 2 or realforce 87u? gonna try topre!

[NYC]

well this site officially drained me. lol anyways after really getting into mech keyboards in the last month, ive already own 2 filcos a brown switch and blue. but now i already want to try topre so im not sure if the realforce or hhkb? pros, cons whatever also do realforce keycaps fit hhkb also or its different also?and whats difference with 55g,45g,silent,variable? keycaps seem so expensive for even standard color keycaps all like $100 and +. why is that also. thanks

[Omerta]

The keys are reversible (somewhat). I got a deck legend mx clear and decided to just dive right into topres and avoid trying buying switch(i probably will anyway since i have GH fever) and i fell in love with topre switches.

To me 45g feels alot lighter then clears, but when i took my fiance and had her try out both boards she told me my deck mx clears felt too light (she types on laptop scissor switches all day) in other words, going from browns/blues you'd probably like the 45g better.

Keycaps are expensive because they are exclusive and have their own cap signature. Difference between the G's is just that, the weight. When you use ripsters weight guide with nickles as 5g each the 55 weighs 2 nickles more. The problem with the weight system 'In my opinion' is that it's hard to take in account the tactile bumps that the fingers feel but the ripometer doesn't. My feel for mx blacks vs mx clears is that the blacks felt 10x lighter then the clears due to the blacks linear nature.

The good thing about topre is although it doesn't have a tactile bump, it doesn't completely sacrifice the tactile nature. It's just so hard to explain what typing on a topre is like. The tactile feel is not really there, but it's not really gone. It's like typing on a fluffy raincloud, and every keystroke you make is you creating a drop of rain with your loud ass spacebar being the thunder.

I haven't personally had the opportunity to type on an 87u but what made me get the HHKP2 over the 87u was the opinions of others saying that it just feels better to type on the HHKP2 due to it's small form and IIRC the 87u has some sort of plate in the board that just seems to over all alter how it feels compared to the HHKP2

It's up to you which board you want, small form or TKL. From a user who is just like you who has been lurking and learning before diving headfirst into this community and learning about the world of topre switches. No matter which board you get, no matter what switches you used to use in the past, topre just has that feel that most keyboard enthusiasts fall in love with or learn to love, with a small amount who just don't like it at all. It's a switch that just makes you WANT to type, and im more then positive you'll like whichever board you get. Although, if you have a hard time touch typing then i suggest you get the 87u.

[urbanus]

The good thing about topre is although it doesn't have a tactile bump, it doesn't completely sacrifice the tactile nature. It's just so hard to explain what typing on a topre is like. The tactile feel is not really there, but it's not really gone. It's like typing on a fluffy raincloud, and every keystroke you make is you creating a drop of rain with your loud ass spacebar being the thunder.

Love your analogy!  I would describe Topre switches as having more of a tactile "hump" or curve.  The keys have the smooth movement of a linear switch, but with a subtle variation in force that lets your fingers feel the keystrokes clearly.  On a variable Topre board the heavier keys feel more bouncy and snappy, while the lighter ones feel softer and more linear.

[NYC]

Love your analogy!  I would describe Topre switches as having more of a tactile "hump" or curve.  The keys have the smooth movement of a linear switch, but with a subtle variation in force that lets your fingers feel the keystrokes clearly.  On a variable Topre board the heavier keys feel more bouncy and snappy, while the lighter ones feel softer and more linear.

Strangely I feel like I know how topre feels already lol

The keys are reversible (somewhat). I got a deck legend mx clear and decided to just dive right into topres and avoid trying buying switch(i probably will anyway since i have GH fever) and i fell in love with topre switches.

To me 45g feels alot lighter then clears, but when i took my fiance and had her try out both boards she told me my deck mx clears felt too light (she types on laptop scissor switches all day) in other words, going from browns/blues you'd probably like the 45g better.

Keycaps are expensive because they are exclusive and have their own cap signature. Difference between the G's is just that, the weight. When you use ripsters weight guide with nickles as 5g each the 55 weighs 2 nickles more. The problem with the weight system 'In my opinion' is that it's hard to take in account the tactile bumps that the fingers feel but the ripometer doesn't. My feel for mx blacks vs mx clears is that the blacks felt 10x lighter then the clears due to the blacks linear nature.

The good thing about topre is although it doesn't have a tactile bump, it doesn't completely sacrifice the tactile nature. It's just so hard to explain what typing on a topre is like. The tactile feel is not really there, but it's not really gone. It's like typing on a fluffy raincloud, and every keystroke you make is you creating a drop of rain with your loud ass spacebar being the thunder.

I haven't personally had the opportunity to type on an 87u but what made me get the HHKP2 over the 87u was the opinions of others saying that it just feels better to type on the HHKP2 due to it's small form and IIRC the 87u has some sort of plate in the board that just seems to over all alter how it feels compared to the HHKP2

It's up to you which board you want, small form or TKL. From a user who is just like you who has been lurking and learning before diving headfirst into this community and learning about the world of topre switches. No matter which board you get, no matter what switches you used to use in the past, topre just has that feel that most keyboard enthusiasts fall in love with or learn to love, with a small amount who just don't like it at all. It's a switch that just makes you WANT to type, and im more then positive you'll like whichever board you get. Although, if you have a hard time touch typing then i suggest you get the 87u.

Icic you have seemed to help me a lot and I think I'm going to just go for hhkb appreciate the well done mini review

[trax]

Well, after trying a bunch of switches I got myself to get a topre one, I don't particularly like it  but its the best type of keyboard ive tried so far.

When I was trying to decide between the HHKB or a RealForce my decision was pretty quickly made as I'd have to carry the board around with my laptop to school and work.
The layout of the HHKB is also pretty epic if you ask me (it only sucks if you need to type in French or German).

[NYC]

Well, after trying a bunch of switches I got myself to get a topre one, I don't particularly like it  but its the best type of keyboard ive tried so far.

When I was trying to decide between the HHKB or a RealForce my decision was pretty quickly made as I'd have to carry the board around with my laptop to school and work.
The layout of the HHKB is also pretty epic if you ask me (it only sucks if you need to type in French or German).

I think it will be hard to get used to espically layout but the real force still appeals to me I'm still in no rush to decide
Keeps

[Omerta]

You say you 'know' how topre's feel already but trust me you really dont. I did tons of lurking and reading and read tons of analogies before finally saying "**** it" and got one. I kept picturing as i typed on my deck how they would feel, watching youtube videos of people typing on one. When it finally arrived it completely blew my mind away. I thought it was going to feel like my old bubbleboard with a subtle tactile bump or something.

As i said, when and if you do get topre switches. Prepare to be surprised.

If ANYTHING, they feel like cherry mx blacks with an extremely fluid pep in their step. Their actuation point is probably the fastest out of any switch you will find, including buckling springs and with their capacitance there is next to no room for mechanical error when double tapping, but i will say when it comes to double tapping cherry mx reds still takes the cake. Topre is great in every field i have thrown at it but when it comes to gaming mx reds are top unless you can get a universal 30g topre board. Not saying topre is bad for gaming, just that the mx reds are just slightly more flexible then topre for getting the job done, just because the topre likes to bounce back into position too quickly due to it's rubber.

So when you're sitting there with a topre board playing an FPS and you're holding down WASD or you're playing starcraft and you're holding the key just slightly above actuation point you can feel the rubber domes begging you to let them pop back into their original position. It's not over whelming or that big of a deal at all really it's just something that's there which mx reds don't have at all. At the same time though the reds dont have that slight and satisfying confirmation key press that topre has which is pretty much as fluid as a red as it is.

[snoopy]

I'm also thinking about a hhkb pro2.... But the price... But I think I can't resist :-)

As of now, I only got experiences with cherry mx blacks and browns

[fossala]

I'm thinking of getting another HHKB. Just to have one in black and non-silent. I love them.

EDIT: They keyboard in my pic is an old one, I sold it to buy a realforce. I found out that I preferred the feel of the HHKB topre switch. More bouncy.

[Omerta]

I'm thinking of getting another HHKB. Just to have one in black and non-silent. I love them.

EDIT: They keyboard in my pic is an old one, I sold it to buy a realforce. I found out that I preferred the feel of the HHKB topre switch. More bouncy.

Bouncy bouncy . Its great for typing but the bounce takes a bit to get used to for gaming.

[fossala]

I don't game (on a pc) so it doesn't affect me. If I did game I don't think I would use a HHKB for it, Would pick up a cheap leopold.

[Namkung]

^ you are playing games with your HHKB?
that just sounds awful.

[net2522]

HHKB doesn't have F key.

[fossala]

It does just on the function (fn) layer.

[fossala]

^ you are playing games with your HHKB?
that just sounds awful.

I said I don't play games.

[funxion]

You guys don't think a HHKB is suitable for games? I have no experience with Topre switches so it'd be nice to know what you guys think out of experience. Probably going to be looking to buy a RF 87u or HHKB like the OP at the end of the year.

[Omerta]

I dont play any games that require me to use F keys. I used to be a sponsored[vVv, steelseries, alienware] L4D player, i went to WCG in 2003 & 2004 for Wc3 TFT.

But back then i was using a razer lycosa & Sateik eclipse 2 keyboards.

The games i play with my HHKP2 are: Tribes Ascend, Dota 2, Minecraft, counter strike, Wakfu, TF2, Killing floor, Soldat, And soon to be diablo 3 & BF3 with my new rig. The HHKP2 is not bad for gaming AT ALL. The capactive switches have been the fastest actuation switches i've ever used while playing dota 2. It's just unreal how i can't even bat an eye with this board and i get a full spell combo off. A bigger upside is the alt/control spots are much better placed for FPS as well. On my old keyboards i always made my crouch my shift because it was easier to use then control. Now the HHKP2 lets you make the 2 keys next to the space bar ALTS, Control is right next to A, and shift right under with tab in easy access for cycling through units in RTS games. Although, The only RTS i really play anymore is Dota 2 which doesn't require a full array of keys like SC2/WoW demand. Which i still see no problem using this board at all with unless you need F keys.

In the time i was gaming with my deck mx clears, it felt so weird to play FPS games with the keys since you always bottom out, and once you get past the tac bump on the clears they get heavy as hell so i just started hovering over the tac bump. After switching to a small form factor keyboard i dont see any normal sized spaced keyboard being good for many games at all to be honest.

The small spacing of many keyboards like the poker, noppopo, pure, race, HHKP2 etc, all have a very solid design for the short space of keys and the ease of access to getting as many keys as possible. If you NEED f keys the best board for gaming would be a noppopo layout board with mx red, brown, or ergo clears.

Either way, i have no problem gaming with my HHKP2 and it's a huge pleasure gaming with it. Although, it would be 10x better for gaming if they made a HHKP2 with 30g weighted keys. Sooner then later i'm probably going to get a KBT Chase /w cherry mx red switches just for gaming, since it has a nopoppo design and it's pretty much perfect for all games. I'm on the fence about the pure though too. I figure if im going to want a cool looking board with a massive selection of switches and backlighting i'm gonna have to have at least one cherry board. It sucks sitting here not being able to customize my HHKB the way i want to.

[funxion]

Well, I'm on browns right now. I'm not big into customization, but I am a HUGE gamer. I'm familiar with vVv's CoD4 team, so that's pretty cool.

I primarily play CoD and other FPS's, but I occasionally venture into other genres as well. I don't need arrow keys, but why can't you game with the F key?

[wompwomp]

I want a topre board so bad, but I'm too scared to pull the trigger. :[ So much moneyz.

[funxion]

It's crazy money, which is why I'm waiting until the end of the year.

Also, what is the actuation force on the HHKB's? I know RF's come in 45g, 55g, and variable (no idea what this means)?

[Namkung]

[WIKI][/WIKI]

I don't game (on a pc) so it doesn't affect me. If I did game I don't think I would use a HHKB for it, Would pick up a cheap leopold.

was refering to omarta above. you posted while I was typing up my reply.

In either case, I guess it depends on your game. If it doesn't require function keys or control key very much but playing SC2 on hhkb would be near impossible .

[funxion]

[WIKI][/WIKI]

was refering to omarta above. you posted while I was typing up my reply.

In either case, I guess it depends on your game. If it doesn't require function keys or control key very much but playing SC2 on hhkb would be near impossible .

Haha, you just made me realize I need a control key...great. The HHKB looks so much sleeker than the RF, but guess it's not going to work out.

[fossala]

It's crazy money, which is why I'm waiting until the end of the year.

Also, what is the actuation force on the HHKB's? I know RF's come in 45g, 55g, and variable (no idea what this means)?

HHKB's are supposed to be 45g but most people end up having around ~52g. Variable means that different keys weight different amounts. 35g on pinkies 45g on the rest except the esc that will be 55g.

[Omerta]

[WIKI][/WIKI]

was refering to omarta above. you posted while I was typing up my reply.

In either case, I guess it depends on your game. If it doesn't require function keys or control key very much but playing SC2 on hhkb would be near impossible .

I dont use F keys for my unit grouping. I used to play the original SC before i went into competitive Warcraft and all my groups were set at #1-5. I never understood why people use F keys for unit grouping when you can set your own grouping with Control + #. Very rarely did i use the F keys, and when i did it was for single hero micro, which in TFT F1 was for your first hero, F2, F3, etc. I don't get at what you're talking about control, control is just fine and you can still set waypoints with a HHKB.

The HHKP2 is all 45g

Edit: I actually just tested my boards G weighting using my g9x's included weighted metal pieces. 4x 4g x4 7g which was 44g it seems to just Barely not activate on some keys but others it has no problem pushing them down. On the keys that didn't go down before i could even put a nickle on it the key instantly dropped. So im pretty sure it's 45-50g more so or less toward 45g. It's about getting the bubble to start it's buckle.

Edit2: Lol first time i've taken the weights out of my mouse in a long time. There really is a big difference between the weight choices logitech gives you between the 4 4g and 4 7g that you can mix around. Heavier the weight the easier it is to draw a circle in paint. Kinda funny.

[fossala]

The HHKP2 is all 45g

Weigh the keys, they are not!

[Autolyze]

I don't have a HHKB, but my 45g RF seems to be more like 50g, give or take a couple grams. I can't feel the difference, but some of the keys consistently require more nickles to actuate than others.

[captain]

The keys are reversible (somewhat). I got a deck legend mx clear and decided to just dive right into topres and avoid trying buying switch(i probably will anyway since i have GH fever) and i fell in love with topre switches.

To me 45g feels alot lighter then clears, but when i took my fiance and had her try out both boards she told me my deck mx clears felt too light (she types on laptop scissor switches all day) in other words, going from browns/blues you'd probably like the 45g better.

Keycaps are expensive because they are exclusive and have their own cap signature. Difference between the G's is just that, the weight. When you use ripsters weight guide with nickles as 5g each the 55 weighs 2 nickles more. The problem with the weight system 'In my opinion' is that it's hard to take in account the tactile bumps that the fingers feel but the ripometer doesn't. My feel for mx blacks vs mx clears is that the blacks felt 10x lighter then the clears due to the blacks linear nature.

The good thing about topre is although it doesn't have a tactile bump, it doesn't completely sacrifice the tactile nature. It's just so hard to explain what typing on a topre is like. The tactile feel is not really there, but it's not really gone. It's like typing on a fluffy raincloud, and every keystroke you make is you creating a drop of rain with your loud ass spacebar being the thunder.

I haven't personally had the opportunity to type on an 87u but what made me get the HHKP2 over the 87u was the opinions of others saying that it just feels better to type on the HHKP2 due to it's small form and IIRC the 87u has some sort of plate in the board that just seems to over all alter how it feels compared to the HHKP2

It's up to you which board you want, small form or TKL. From a user who is just like you who has been lurking and learning before diving headfirst into this community and learning about the world of topre switches. No matter which board you get, no matter what switches you used to use in the past, topre just has that feel that most keyboard enthusiasts fall in love with or learn to love, with a small amount who just don't like it at all. It's a switch that just makes you WANT to type, and im more then positive you'll like whichever board you get. Although, if you have a hard time touch typing then i suggest you get the 87u.

Aaaargh!  THAN, not then. Once is a forgivable mistake. Three times is bad education. Go back to grade school and kick your English teacher's ass. Then say, "I would rather kick your ass than continue misusing then and than, then I'll punch you in the face and then I'll shove a dictionary in your bloody face and maybe THEN I'll leave!"

[limmy]

Here are measurements of my Realforce silent version that I traded with my like new HHKB. Previous owner said he bought it last December. Variable RF feels a lot mushier than my HHKB, i.e. HHKB gives more tactile feedback even when like-new. In my case, my 5-year old HHKB has tons of tactile feedback and has average actuation force close to 60g. Judging from measurements from other owners of HHKB, I am guessing HHKBs are significantly heavier than 45g even when new. Measurements of 6 HHKBs are here


Measurement date : 4/12/2012 Thr

Esc - 56.03

F1 - 44.43
F2 - 45.22
F3 - 46.80
F4 - 45.23
F5 - 46.82
F6 - 46.80
F7 - 47.22
F8 - 42.73
F9 - 44.71
F10 - 43.92
F11 - 42.34
F12 - 42.73

PrtScr - 43.13
NumLock - 43.13
Pause - 43.13

~ - 46.04
1 - 32.56
2 - 39.92
3 - 46.47
4 - 47.26
5 - 50.43
6 - 49.50
7 - 50.29
8 - 51.09
9 - 44.49
0 - 35.43
- - 35.82
= - 35.03
Backspace - 37.95

tab - 45.45
q - 32.15
w - 41.73
e - 48.48
r - 46.90
t - 46.91
y - 47.70
u - 49.04
i - 49.83
o - 44.46
p - 35.06
[ - 36.23
] - 36.23
\ - 46.52

CapsLock - 46.48
a - 32.55
s - 40.06
d - 49.27
f - 48.88
g - 49.27
h - 45.72
j - 47.72
k - 49.71
l - 45.74
; - 36.00
' - 36.78
Enter - 45.26

L shift - 46.06
z - 32.96
x - 40.71
c - 46.78
v - 48.77
b - 47.58
n - 48.38
m - 49.17
, - 49.55
. - 43.23
/ - 34.91
R shift - 44.87

L ctrl - 46.07
L win - 44.09
L alt - 47.26
space - 58.93
R alt - 44.33
R win - 53.94
context - 49.70
R ctrl - 45.64


Ins - 46.28
Home - 47.49
PgUp - 46.42
Del - 47.61
End - 45.63
PgDn - 44.45

Up - 45.65
Left - 47.61
Down - 46.46
Right - 47.61


Measured using this. Unit of increment is about 0.4g.
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 48518[/ATTACH]

[Namkung]

I dont use F keys for my unit grouping. I used to play the original SC before i went into competitive Warcraft and all my groups were set at #1-5. I never understood why people use F keys for unit grouping when you can set your own grouping with Control + #. Very rarely did i use the F keys, and when i did it was for single hero micro, which in TFT F1 was for your first hero, F2, F3, etc. I don't get at what you're talking about control, control is just fine and you can still set waypoints with a HHKB.

The HHKP2 is all 45g

Edit: I actually just tested my boards G weighting using my g9x's included weighted metal pieces. 4x 4g x4 7g which was 44g it seems to just Barely not activate on some keys but others it has no problem pushing them down. On the keys that didn't go down before i could even put a nickle on it the key instantly dropped. So im pretty sure it's 45-50g more so or less toward 45g. It's about getting the bubble to start it's buckle.

Edit2: Lol first time i've taken the weights out of my mouse in a long time. There really is a big difference between the weight choices logitech gives you between the 4 4g and 4 7g that you can mix around. Heavier the weight the easier it is to draw a circle in paint. Kinda funny.

lol what?
are you telling me you seriously "rarely" used the F keys for selecting your heroes?
If so, I am sorry but you were at best a below average player (not that there is anything wrong with that)
I am not saying you CAN'T play sc2 or wc3 with a HHKB but rather what I meant was that you aren't going to play it at even a mediocre level and that isn't even a discussion for anyone that knows how to play the game

[NYC]

i think i might just go for the realforce 87u 45g now....cuz i game a bit like cs but will be playing diablo 3 and i think a fuller keyboard would be better, i dunno?

[NYC]

also is 45g like cherry blues or browns? and whats 55g like ?

[Omerta]

lol what?
are you telling me you seriously "rarely" used the F keys for selecting your heroes?
If so, I am sorry but you were at best a below average player (not that there is anything wrong with that)
I am not saying you CAN'T play sc2 or wc3 with a HHKB but rather what I meant was that you aren't going to play it at even a mediocre level and that isn't even a discussion for anyone that knows how to play the game

Are you joking? AdventFury was my alias in WCG for 2003[lost to MyM.Lucifer in finals im sure you can find the replay on war3replays.com] and 2004. NE 1v1 top 10 ladder USE, rank 2 2v2 AT USE, Rank 1 FFA USE. It's not hard to group your heros in groups that don't belong. In fact most UD players have their DK cued with fiends in 1, then 2 is some of the same army with a lich. It's not uncommon to constantly bind and rebind groupings every 60 seconds, and just because i never used the F keys due to playing RTS games all my life dating back to as far as red alert and grouping without F keys doesn't make me a mediocre player. It's a play style that one gets used to, my APM hovered at 190-210 which is low because of NE. I mean it's like teaching a person who types over 200 WPM without homerow, you're not going to get anything better out of the person by changing the way he does things if they already work. In fact, most of us only used the F keys on heroes for potions and dont stay on a single hero grouping longer then a second. Tabing and holding alt lets you single out a unit from a group 10x faster. WC3 is different, yeah you do surround and whole army focus fire but not as heavily as SC. They really are two completely different RTS games. WC when it comes to base groupings had letters for each of their groupings. So when im macroing bears to harrass someone's expo, killing a camp to level my DH, and microing AoWs, a ToL, and 2 archers on a red camp to 10m push an expo all at the same time it doesn't absolutely require Fkeys more then good grouping.

I dont play SC2, and probably don't really plan on playing it. The style of that game was never really my forte. It's literally double the food count than wc3. If you REALLY want to play against someone who uses the same style i normally go at, look up a good friend of mine who i used to wc3 with, he was on our old vVv HoN team, and current Dota 2 team. I literally taught the kid how to play RTS games when he came to hon, had to reteach him dota 2, now he's diamond in SC2.

On Topic: 55g is just 10g heavier, hard to really explain you're going to need someone who has both boards.

[Typhaeon]

Complete domination

Remember, kids: Just because you have a Korean username doesn't mean you can talk **** about Starcraft without getting called out on it.

I don't know, I don't see the point of the uniform weightings.  It gets rid of one of the unique things about Realforce keyboards that makes their price range seem even approximately justified.  If you're going with a uniform keyboard, why not just go with a higher-end Cherry switch one?

[fossala]

Because topre feel completely different to a cherry switch. It is like saying why buy a porche when you could get a jaguar (don't know much about cars but I think these are good no?).

[Omerta]

Another advantage to the HHKB vs. Topre is if you like the White or White/Blank HHKB you can get replacement keycaps in that color.

If  you buy a 103/87 and want replacement white keycaps with grey modifiers you're screwed.

Why is that? I have an otaku dark grey HHKP2, are the replacment keys on the website a darker color? I was wondering that before i bought the board, if they are indeed darker i might actually just buy them for their darker color lol.

[Namkung]

That's cool.
I actually have quite a bit of WC3 games under myself as well though I never played to a competitive level. (ShowTime.KoreA / Lei- / WATCANLEIDO4U)
I am not sure what you are trying to prove but if you honestly think that a HHKB is better (or even good at all for that matter) in comparison to a regular board, then you must be out of your mind.
Something about you mentioning your own APM just makes me feel like you are a complete joke but I will ignore that.
If you want to go back as far as 2003, I was level 42 solo when the cap was 50 and ranked top 20 in US ladder on ShowTime.KoreA.
Oh by the way.. someone in diamond league in SC2 is no where even close to say being ranked 1000th in WC3.
Also I looked up your supposed account "Adventfury" and to my surprise, I was not able to find anything including wcreplays.com
Lastly, I also looked up the 2003 WCG results for WC3 and it turns out the first place was the human player SK_Insomnia with second place being named "Chinahuman"
Do you care to elaborate?  (http://www.wcg.com/6th/tournament/2003/tm_match_medalist.asp?sort=G041109100)
I don't know why this is even a discussion really. I feel like no sane man (though I have clearly been proven wrong by you) would ever argue that HHKB is a good keyboard for playing WC3 or SC2.

P.S.
PM me if you want to play me in WC3 "2003 WCG Runner Up" because I will reinstall that game and play you. Playing with your HHKB should give me enough edge for me to win ^^

Edit:

Remember, kids: Just because you have a Korean username doesn't mean you can talk **** about Starcraft without getting called out on it.

I don't know, I don't see the point of the uniform weightings.  It gets rid of one of the unique things about Realforce keyboards that makes their price range seem even approximately justified.  If you're going with a uniform keyboard, why not just go with a higher-end Cherry switch one?

Please keep your ignorant comment out of here. Thanks

[Reptile]

Sorry but a hhkb would be the worst thing in the world for WC3. Namkung is spot on

[Typhaeon]

Please keep your ignorant comment out of here. Thanks

PM was more appropriate for what came next.  Please ignore the posturing poseur in the quote above, much less anyone else in the armchair general category that tries to further derail this thread with pointless e-penis waggling.

Because topre feel completely different to a cherry switch. It is like saying why buy a porche when you could get a jaguar (don't know much about cars but I think these are good no?).

The reason they feel different is diminished when you remove one of the key unique features that make them feel different.

[Reptile]

The reason they feel different is diminished when you remove one of the key unique features that make them feel different.

Please explain

[Typhaeon]

Variable weight.  Part of the total package that is cheapened if you buy a uniform keyweight model.

[insilica]

also is 45g like cherry blues or browns? and whats 55g like ?

55g is too stiff if you find 45 comfy, my ESC is 55 on my variable just trying that with all my fingers convinced me it would be too heavy for my liking

[tsangan]

Is a HHKB that bad for SC2? Is it because theres no function keys to set camera hotkeys?

[dreamingftw]

I mainly use f1 to go to the idle workers in SC2 and rarely use them for camera hotkeys. I always wanted to get a Poker to play SC2 on because of its small form factor but playing without f keys wouldn't work for me.

[limmy]

Variable weight is comfortable for typing, but I understand why people do not like variable weighted.

If you are playing games or doing anything other than typing, variable weighted RF could feel a little weird.

I played SC2 casually about a year ago using HHKB and had no issues. But I agree that HHKB may be a little bothersome in tasks that require frequent use of function keys. (in many cases, you can remap shortcuts and not use function keys, but again it is combinations of keys rather than a single press) In most of cases, single key press is faster and less tiring than combinations of keys.

However, HHKB layout or any other compact keyboard layout that uses Fn layer is beneficial in some tasks because your fingers are not far away from home row. This feature is extremely useful if you have to type at the same time use arrow keys and such. But Fn layer can be emulated using autohotkey or other similar software, so you don't really need HHKB to have that feature if your working environment supports such software.

[ChaoticKinesis]

55g is too stiff if you find 45 comfy, my ESC is 55 on my variable just trying that with all my fingers convinced me it would be too heavy for my liking

What about for those who find Blacks more comfortable to type on than Browns or Blues?

[Namkung]

Is a HHKB that bad for SC2? Is it because theres no function keys to set camera hotkeys?

It is because of that + being unable to select idle workers with F1.
It sounds like a no big deal which is why I said you could still play with a HHKB, just not at a high level.
For WC3 however, the function keys are used ALL THE TIME to select your heroes, so HHKB is THAT bad for WC3.
+ getting used to HHKB layout would be a nightmare . At least for me..

[guilleguillaume]

Is a HHKB that bad for SC2? Is it because theres no function keys to set camera hotkeys?

Seriously I don't know who are they to tell people that a HHKB is not a good keyboard to play online games. Then I may be a genious because I play games with both of my Happy Hacking Keyboard and also do that with my KBC Poker without any problem :ranger:

It is because of that + being unable to select idle workers with F1.
It sounds like a no big deal which is why I said you could still play with a HHKB, just not at a high level.
For WC3 however, the function keys are used ALL THE TIME to select your heroes, so HHKB is THAT bad for WC3.
+ getting used to HHKB layout would be a nightmare . At least for me..

Just because you wouldn't be able to get used it doesn't mean that everyone would have the same problems as you. I don't have any problems using F1-F12 while playing with those keyboards:

- HHKB Pro 2
- HHHKB JP
- KBC Poker

And all of them have those keys in second layer.

[tsangan]

It is because of that + being unable to select idle workers with F1.
It sounds like a no big deal which is why I said you could still play with a HHKB, just not at a high level.
For WC3 however, the function keys are used ALL THE TIME to select your heroes, so HHKB is THAT bad for WC3.
+ getting used to HHKB layout would be a nightmare . At least for me..

Ahhh gotcha, I never played WC3 besides DotA :rofl:

I can never get used to camera hotkeys on SC2 I can imagine how useful it can be I guess I should try to use that more, I don't really use F1 either for idle workers, guess I really need to get on that also ._.

Seriously I don't know who are they to tell people that a HHKB is not a good keyboard to play online games. Then I may be a genious because I play games with both of my Happy Hacking Keyboard and also do that with my KBC Poker without any problem:confused:

I play games on all my boards also besides the SSK, I didn't have much problem with all the games I played but if the function keys were required to do little tasks then of course it would be bothersome on the HHKB/Poker, thats why I still think the choc mini/race is really good for gaming due to the small factor and all the keys being there, but they just have too odd of keycap sizes for me to use them

[keyboardlover]

87U has better build quality and a more normal layout. I personally prefer the 87U.

[Namkung]

@guilleguillaume

I never said you can't play with it.
I also said that it would be a nightmare FOR ME to get used to the layout . Obviously I realize there are ways around this and that someone could get used to the new layout.
If you find yourself needing to press F1/F2 at least a couple of times a minute, can you really say that HHKB is suitable for that? Sure you can rebind those keys and what not, but then you go through the hassle of needing to get used to the new layout..
I do not for a second want to say you CANT'T play games with HHKB. Only that it's MUCH easier to just play on a regular layout board.