cherry black owners - have *you* experienced typing fatigue?

[derek trousers]

I am quite a heavy typist (yes, overweight, but not what I meant) and wondered whether a Cherry MX black would cause fatigue. Often mentioned as being great for gamers, but also quite tiring to keyboard reviewers, I wonder if my typing "technique" makes me more suited for MX blacks. I am much more a typist than gamer.

Of course, everyone's different (and, having tried a blue for the first time I struggle to see how, over time, I won't ever stop bottoming out) but I still thought I'd ask: all ye cherry black users, have you experienced typing fatigue? Would be interesting to get an idea from forumites to establish if there really could be an issue with prolonged typing sessions with an MX black.

Thanks


--DT--

[1839cc]

Yes I have.

I have a Triad Hardgoods (WYSE OEM) terminal board, and just playing around with it unattached has fatigued my fingers. I don't know why. The clears use the same springs, and they are my favorites.

[Viets]

LOL, don't ever get a black for typing, they are absoutely the worst for typing and ur fingers will get fatigued, though they are great for FPS games! I've had a Steelseries 7G and Thermal Meka G1.(less fatigue by a lot, maybe due to the keycaps or materials used, they really suit the blacks) The Steelseries 7G is absoutely terrible, I don't know what oem made it, but this is the worst fatiguing keyboard I used in my life... Go with the reds(45g), they're like the blacks(60g) in terms of being non-linear and non-clicky without the heavy force required to press down the keys.
If for typing IMO:

Blues
Reds
Browns(You are to prone to make mistakes if you're a quick typist)
Blacks(to heavy, otherwise would be pretty good for typing)

Since you didn't like blues because you bottom out to much and blacks for sure will fatigue your fingers, go with either reds or browns.

[Autolyze]

If you're looking for something firmer than blues and better suited for typing than blacks, you should try out clears or greens. It's easier to avoid bottoming out when you have the tactile/clicky point to indicate that a key has been pressed.

[IvanIvanovich]

My first MX board had black, and coming from a bad rubber dome that was really stiff they felt light. But now I find I like reds and use them primarily. If I use a blacks board for a few hours I can feel it. I get same fatigue gaming as typing, so I don't see how it's better for one and terrible the other. You are typing keys either way after all. If you're someone that works with their hands, or a pianist or something they would probably be fine. Some people do quite like blacks and don't find them tiring. It depends on what you prefer or are used to.

[anselben]

I messed around with the black switches for a week or so and didn't mind them too much. I did notice the difference between them and my blues but I can't really say my hands got really fatigued while typing on it.
I recently also got a kbc poker with reds and even though these are the 'lighter' switches, it feels like they are a little heavier than my blues. or just a completely different feeling in general.

[Parabellum]

I used an access board with blacks for about a year and my fingers were fine!

[win]

Definitely, not, and coming from my unicomp, the linear aspect is also new and interesting. That's also something to consider as much as the weight of the switch. You might not like that. I've also tried blue switches, and I don't like their light feel too.

But I find this particular reputation that black switches have to be unfair, and it includes the general perception of heavy switches versus light switches from certain owners of mechanical keyboards. It's almost like a false consensus bias, but a more accessible term might be a circlejerk. A vocal majority has decided that lighter switches are better and more cloud of booby; therefore, lighter switches are better and if you disagree you're wrong because lighter switches are better. (Sarcasm below:)

And didn't you know black switches cause finger fatigue? It is known. For in Deuteronomy 25:11-12, it clearly states: "And the baby Jesus said unto them, 'Don't type on black switches, noob. You're [sic] fingers will hurt.'" So let's all put that into our mechanical keyboard guides and tell everyone who comes asking about them because it's dogma. Put it somewhere next to how annoyingly loud buckling springs are because I don't like those too.

/EndOfRant

[OkGold]

it absolutely happened! I wouldn't say it happens often, but especially days where i've been working with my hands, it just puts me over the edge. That said I didn't buy this thing for  typing, I bought it for vidya gaems. When it does happen, it feels more like joint pain than anything else, just uncomfortable, never like i'm straining anything. I have a 7G, and the idea that the material they use somehow changes the switch is a little silly

i'm buying a red RACE soon for longer typing sessions

also, Win, dat KStew, so good

[ChaoticKinesis]

After using browns for a few months (I hated them), I tried blacks and it was love at first type. I have continued to enjoy typing on my blacks and am doing so right now. I've typed several papers on them and generally do not experience any sort of fatigue. I prefer their linearity over the slight tactility of the browns, which just feels mushy to me. I enjoy typing on blues as well, but do not prefer them over blacks.

[reaper]

all ye cherry black users, have you experienced typing fatigue? Would be interesting to get an idea from forumites to establish if there really could be an issue with prolonged typing sessions with an MX black.

Nope, I haven't and still loving the black switches.  Even my imported ones have Cherry MX Black on them. lol

[mcgci5450]

Personally I haven't had any problems with fatigue when typing on blacks. I am a heavy typer though and almost always bottom out the keys when typing.

[zeDoktor]

I've gotten typing fatigue on my 6Gv2 before but that's usually after a whole day of working on computers. I can definitely say that the weight is noticeable but I can't confirm if it's just the weight that's fatiguing my hands as I've changed the ergonomics of my home desk somewhat (got rid of the keyboard tray because it wasn't allowing my legs to be bent at 90 degrees and moved kb and mouse up to the top level of the desk). Either way I'm not much of a typist and use it primarily for gaming. I haven't been coding in my off time due to the failure of some previous projects.

[iBro]

I never really experienced any typing fatigue when I used my Poker with black switches. The thing to remember about black switches is that they are really springy, and don't have to be pressed all the way to actuate. When you type on them for awhile you can get to the point where you not bottom out much, if at all. At this point it feels nice a fluid, just your fingers bouncing around one some springy keys you go.

With that being said I switched to red switches after blacks. I like the reds a bit more, not just because they are lighter, but because they are less springy. I bottom out a lot more with the red springs, but I often like bottoming out the reds, something that isn't very plausible when you use the black switches.

[jrockroll]

i sold it after typing for 3 sec.

[exousia7]

I'm using CM Storm Quick Fire Rapid with blacks and I feel fine typing on it, I don't feel any fatigue from typing nor gaming on this keyboard.

[Voyager]

Absolutely. I bought my Steelseries 6Gv2 just because my Dell AT101W was so huge. And since I have a heavy hand and always bottom out I thought that blacks would suit me fine, but that was not the case. I don't know what does it more for me - the linear feel where I'm never sure I actually pressed a key or the spring stiffness, but when I sat down to write for the first time I had to take a break after just one page.

[1839cc]

the linear feel where I'm never sure I actually pressed a key

This is what does it to me. Too much concentration and fine muscle control leads to fatigue.

I've even experienced this while using browns.

[win]

I'm never sure I actually pressed a key

This is what does it to me. Too much concentration and fine muscle control leads to fatigue.

I've even experienced this while using browns.

I suggest learning to touch type.

[1839cc]

I suggest learning to touch type.

The fatiguing concentration is in how deep to push the key, not which key to press.

[pitashen]

no fatigue, but that is because I don't bottom out. I got a pair of asian girly hands by the way. The force required to register the key stroke isn't that huge. Going further down toward the bottom is when things become tiresome.

[net2522]

^I love to see your hand.

[Viets]

Cherry Blacks on Tte Meka G1, Leopold FC200, WASD, Deck Ice 82 not stiff at all [to me]...

Poker and especially the Filco Maj 1 were the stiffest ones I've tried.

Steelseries 6gv2 somewhere in the middle.

its the keycaps, I've tried different keycaps(lower profile keycap) on Meka G1 and they feel stiff as hell and more fatiguing. It's because Meka G1 has hella tall keycaps, so you don't bottom out as often

[win]

The fatiguing concentration is in how deep to push the key, not which key to press.

Well, recall this thread is about typing. Generally speaking, what you type to your computer can be sent as output to a monitor in front of your face. From that point vision can take over.

[1839cc]

Well it didn't help with the browns because I was trying not to bottom out on such a light spring. It got better after a while, once I adjusted to them.

And as I stated earlier, my experience with the blacks is limited to a terminal board that I can't connect to anything. Makes it hard to see what I'm typing on the screen that way.

[derek trousers]

Browns(You are to prone to make mistakes if you're a quick typist)
Blacks(to heavy, otherwise would be pretty good for typing)

Since you didn't like blues because you bottom out to much and blacks for sure will fatigue your fingers, go with either reds or browns.

Well I'm not that fast a typist but am hoping the joy of using my first mechanical keyboard will make me want to improve.

As reds are hard to find in the UK, might well be browns I need to focus on. Thanks Viets.

[derek trousers]

If you're looking for something firmer than blues and better suited for typing than blacks, you should try out clears or greens. It's easier to avoid bottoming out when you have the tactile/clicky point to indicate that a key has been pressed.

Cheers Autolyze. Being in the UK I might have more luck finding rocking horse sh*t, but I'll do some hunting.

[dirge]

typing all day on a black board at work, no issues here.

model m at home as my main driver.

[davkol]

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[derek trousers]

After using browns for a few months (I hated them), I tried blacks and it was love at first type. I have continued to enjoy typing on my blacks and am doing so right now. I've typed several papers on them and generally do not experience any sort of fatigue. I prefer their linearity over the slight tactility of the browns, which just feels mushy to me. I enjoy typing on blues as well, but do not prefer them over blacks.

And do you bottom out or have trained your fingers to actuate without bottoming?

[All The Fire]

I really like the blacks. Bottoming out most of the time, a few odd presses I don't, but it's a very light bottom out compared to with brown switches. I can particularly hit the numpad keys quite hard and jar my fingers a bit on brown switches.

[derek trousers]

i sold it after typing for 3 sec.

Lol

[derek trousers]

Absolutely. I bought my Steelseries 6Gv2 just because my Dell AT101W was so huge. And since I have a heavy hand and always bottom out I thought that blacks would suit me fine, but that was not the case. I don't know what does it more for me - the linear feel where I'm never sure I actually pressed a key or the spring stiffness, but when I sat down to write for the first time I had to take a break after just one page.

So what did you end up with?

[Voyager]

So what did you end up with?

I still use the 6Gv2. Maybe I'll get used to it eventually. The problem is that mech board selection is extremely limited in my country and the fact that mech boards are heavy as hell makes buying overseas a hard option to swallow.

[1839cc]

I still use the 6Gv2. Maybe I'll get used to it eventually. The problem is that mech board selection is extremely limited in my country and the fact that mech boards are heavy as hell makes buying overseas a hard option to swallow.

PCB mounted switches such as in Cherry keyboards and some others are  much lighter lighter than plate mounted ones. One of the downsides is  flex, but it might make them more accessible.

[ChaoticKinesis]

And do you bottom out or have trained your fingers to actuate without bottoming?

I'm a somewhat heavy typist. With the browns, I found it impossible to not bottom out when typing fast. The force applied to overcome the tactile bump always led me to bottom out hard and it wasn't a pleasant feeling. With the blacks, I usually bottom out as well but it's a much softer bottoming because they are so springy that my fingers just pop back up. I've only been using the blacks for a few weeks though, so right now I'm trying to learn not to bottom out with them.

[poxeclipse]

I have 7 Wyse keyboards with MX blacks, got them for free. I used some of their keycaps on the Filco, Cherry G80-3000 and CM, for I like the profile. One of my projects is to mod one of the Wyse60 boards with a Teensy controller and to see how the MX blacks feel.
My favourites now are MX clears, which I started to use by accident. I bought a G80-8113 for keycaps. It has MX clears and I ended up using them. Before I used blues on CM. Clears are nice for I never bottom on them and this increased my speed and accuracy. They are also silent. So, not bottoming is the solution to avoid fatigue, and for me I can do it on clears. With browns and blues I bottom all the time.
Now I'm using also a Samsung board with Futaba switches, to see why I like them so much. One reason for sure was the price, $5.99.

Favourites:
Clears
Blues
have to try Blacks
never tried Reds

[davkol]

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[1839cc]

So, not bottoming is the solution to avoid fatigue, and for me I can do it on clears. With browns and blues I bottom all the time.

This.

I wish Cherry imported the G80-3000LQCEU-0/-2 (Cherry Clear) board instead of keeping it mostly for Asia.  They run around $140 shipped on TaoBao; given the "deck of cards" case construction I keep reading about I'm not sure I could justify it.

PCB mounted Cherry switches make it so easy to change stems and springs. Just do this yourself. Also, the leaf springs are what wear in those POS donor boards. So putting old used stems into brand new switch bottoms results in brand new switch feel. Or maybe 'broken in' switch feel since the coil springs relax a little too.

[IvanIvanovich]

Yeah, no need to bust yourself on Cherry G80, though... some of the Asia versions have 6+KRO instead of the common 2KRO versions more readily available in US. So importing can be worth it depending. Should have bought KL's clear modded 3494.

[iodine131]

Yes......but the reason may not be the Black MX switches. It is the keyboard layout. I just hate to move my hands from left to right just to use the arrows/home/end/etc.
And I switched from Filco MJ Black to HHKB Pro2 :>

[modulor]

I've not experienced any sort of fatigue using my cherry black boards, but I also don't type for more than 30 minutes straight at any given time (typically).  It really depends on what you're using the board for in the end.  My other experience is with lighter switches like reds and browns; I'd say most should expect to bottom out on those unless they touch type very lightly (I'd recommend o-rings otherwise).  If you are a heavy typist, or are trying to learn to touch type, I'd recommend something heavy like blacks or clears.  The best course of action ultimately is to try a board out... if you experience fatigue, just throw it up on the classifieds and try another board. :tea:

[HWI]

I sold my board that had blacks, I hated the feel and they definitely fatigued my fingers.

[derek trousers]

I've not experienced any sort of fatigue using my cherry black boards, but I also don't type for more than 30 minutes straight at any given time (typically).  It really depends on what you're using the board for in the end.  My other experience is with lighter switches like reds and browns; I'd say most should expect to bottom out on those unless they touch type very lightly (I'd recommend o-rings otherwise).  If you are a heavy typist, or are trying to learn to touch type, I'd recommend something heavy like blacks or clears.  The best course of action ultimately is to try a board out... if you experience fatigue, just throw it up on the classifieds and try another board. :tea:

Cheers modulor. Am itching to try a black now. Would much rather get it right first time!