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Author Topic: Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility  (Read 3126 times)

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Offline mr626

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Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility
« on: Mon, 30 April 2012, 21:19:32 »
Hi all,

Hopefully some Model M guru will be able to help.

I purchase via ebay a White label 1391401 for parts. I was able to salvage:

-The full outer casing
-All of the keycaps / stems
-The rubber mat
-The metal plate
-Most of the springs/hammers (I have some spares to cover the short-fall though).
-The controller (can provide more details if needed)
-The detachable cable
-The num/caps/scroll lock light cluster with intact cable

The barrel plate and circuit sheets were beyond saving- the sheets were badly damaged and the barrel plate was cracked in many places and completely warped out of shape (looked like heat damage).

So, I figure (assuming that the controller works) that all I need to create a working keyboard from this mess is a barrel plate and circuit sheets to suit.

Some questions:

  • Can I basically use the circuit sheets from any Model M, or are there specific ones for specific controllers?
  • What do you think is the best (cheapest!) way to get the parts I need?

Thanks
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Offline mr626

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Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 30 April 2012, 21:40:40 »
Another crazy thought- Could I swap the controller from this board with a similar model / spec terminal board, and then have a working Model M? Because I think I can get a good condition, working terminal version of this exact board rather cheaply...

Feel free to slap me around the head with some wiki links if the information is already there.
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Offline mkawa

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Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 30 April 2012, 22:02:37 »
you should be able to get the parts you need new from unicomp
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Offline mr626

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Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 30 April 2012, 22:35:59 »
Agreed- Unicomp is always an option. Would prefer second hand if possible though.
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Offline 486

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Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 01 May 2012, 01:08:49 »
Was this Model M from grubb3r5 on ebay? If so i was watching that M because I needed some parts to fix another M I have.
AS for controller compatiblility, I own very early to very late 1391401's and all have interchangable membrane traces. However if you are getting parts from Blue label Lexmarks, the LED and bottom trace are combined but to utilise this kind of trace, get a exacto knife and cut where the two traces join but carefully. Controllers are all compatible in the 1391401 range. Where to get parts, try clickykeyboards.com. Brandon has lots of unlisted parts, ask him if he has any. If you are in Sydney, try going to Reverse Garbage. I have not personally been there but from the photo of the ewaste they collect, it may be a good place to look for Model M's.
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Offline mr626

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Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 01 May 2012, 11:03:44 »
Quote from: 486;587059
Was this Model M from grubb3r5 on ebay? If so i was watching that M because I needed some parts to fix another M I have.
AS for controller compatiblility, I own very early to very late 1391401's and all have interchangable membrane traces. However if you are getting parts from Blue label Lexmarks, the LED and bottom trace are combined but to utilise this kind of trace, get a exacto knife and cut where the two traces join but carefully. Controllers are all compatible in the 1391401 range. Where to get parts, try clickykeyboards.com. Brandon has lots of unlisted parts, ask him if he has any. If you are in Sydney, try going to Reverse Garbage. I have not personally been there but from the photo of the ewaste they collect, it may be a good place to look for Model M's.

It was the very same. Sorry I beat you to it!

He did a very poor job packing it. The listing mentioned it was in parts- fair enough. But his idea of 'packing' was to put everything in single plastic shopping bag, and then put that inside one of those large tough cardboard pouches. No padding/protection of any kind- keys, keystems and even hammer/springs were floating around loose inside. Annoys me a bit- whenever I package something to be sent I always package it the way I'd like to hope other people would if they were sending something to me: plenty of padding, multiple layers of plastic in case of exposure to water etc.

Oh, but on the plus side the detachable cable is one of the really long ones (which I don't have any of) so that's a plus.

Thanks for the thoughts about the parts. What I'd really like to confirm is if I can use the controller from this board in a similar era terminal board (such as the silver label and white label terminal boards that have the standard ansi 101 key layout.
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Offline 486

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Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 01 May 2012, 16:59:16 »
Don't worry, after reading what you described, I feel sorry for you. Packing is a very important thing. When I usually pack M's for shipping, I use two methods. I either get a cardboard box big enough to fit or make my own. A simple cardboard tough bag is not gonna do it. Did he affix a fragile stamp? hammers are quite fragile with old age. Yes you could use from what I have read from kishy, certain Term M's are compatible but do you have a terminal board? You may have recently seen trievalot's XT term go for about $168 dollars. I personally have not sighted any terminal M's on Ebay australia but I guess they would go for about $100. I don't know why but there seems to be this thing in Australia where Terminal keyboards are rarer than IBM compatible keyboards of equivilent design. In the US, it's the opposite. I think that getting a standard M would be easier and cheaper than a Terminal. On a different note, how much was postage for the Unicomp Wildcat keyboard?
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Offline mr626

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Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 01 May 2012, 17:48:50 »
Quote from: 486;587584
Don't worry, after reading what you described, I feel sorry for you. Packing is a very important thing. When I usually pack M's for shipping, I use two methods. I either get a cardboard box big enough to fit or make my own. A simple cardboard tough bag is not gonna do it. Did he affix a fragile stamp? hammers are quite fragile with old age. Yes you could use from what I have read from kishy, certain Term M's are compatible but do you have a terminal board? You may have recently seen trievalot's XT term go for about $168 dollars. I personally have not sighted any terminal M's on Ebay australia but I guess they would go for about $100. I don't know why but there seems to be this thing in Australia where Terminal keyboards are rarer than IBM compatible keyboards of equivilent design. In the US, it's the opposite. I think that getting a standard M would be easier and cheaper than a Terminal. On a different note, how much was postage for the Unicomp Wildcat keyboard?

Nope, no fragile stamp or anything. There were quite a few hammers that were badly damaged.

Yes, I've read kishy's posts regarding this, but I'm still not 100% sure. As far as terminal board pricing- lets just say I've got a source where I can get them fairly cheaply :-) The XT price is not really a good indicator of the overall market price I think, since they tend to go for a lot more regardless.

Postage for the Wildcat was $60USD via FedEx. Took 5 business days to arrive.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 01 May 2012, 18:56:41 »
Very interesting.

I took a lighter keyboard than a Model M to a FedEx office here in the US, and they told me that the only option to Australia was "priority" shipping (presumably 2-3 days) for something well over $200.

Unicomp must do enough shipping to have an inside deal for a more reasonable rate than a lay customer ever sees.
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That's the message. That's the whole message. Say that every day, not just to reach America's frustrated young white men, but people of every age, race, and gender.
Late-stage capitalism is a wealth-concentration engine, focused on vacuuming up every dollar and putting it in as few hands as possible. Republicans are helping that vacuum suck.
How does a tiny fraction of the population get away with this? They do it by dividing the other 99% of Americans against themselves."
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Offline mr626

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Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 01 May 2012, 19:20:02 »
That's rubbish- not sure why they would tell you that. The keyboard was shipped via 'FedEx International Economy' which doesn't sound like anything special.

Very happy with the whole process- tracking was great and regularly updated, and the box arrived in good condition.
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Offline 486

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Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 02 May 2012, 03:59:38 »
Quote
As far as terminal board pricing- lets just say I've got a source where I can get them fairly cheaply :-)

A1 used computers?
$60 is pretty cheap for postage from the US. I usually find it to be about $80-$90. USPS usually gets most of their profit from Ebay purchases.
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Offline ch_123

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Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 02 May 2012, 08:40:21 »
Unicomps, and late production IBM Model Ms (Lexmark or Greenock made 42H1292s) have different membranes and controller types to the 'classic' variety. See here

Quote
Could I swap the controller from this board with a similar model / spec terminal board, and then have a working Model M?


If you're talking about the 102/103-key terminal keyboards, then sure, I've even tried this myself. Not the 122-key ones though, the controllers and membranes are incompatible with the regular sized boards.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 02 May 2012, 15:47:09 »
Quote from: 486;587925
$60 is pretty cheap for postage from the US. I usually find it to be about $80-$90. USPS usually gets most of their profit from Ebay purchases.

The USPS offers "flat rate" game board boxes that go anywhere for $58. (or $16 domestic)

It took me a while to discover them, but anybody in the US who ships many keyboards will do themselves and their customers a service by using them.
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"However, even though I was born in the Mesozoic, I do know what anyone who wants to reach out to young people should say: Billionaires took your money. They took your chance to buy a home. They took your chance at a good education. They stole your opportunities. Billionaires took the things you want in life. If you really want those things, you have to take them back.
That's the message. That's the whole message. Say that every day, not just to reach America's frustrated young white men, but people of every age, race, and gender.
Late-stage capitalism is a wealth-concentration engine, focused on vacuuming up every dollar and putting it in as few hands as possible. Republicans are helping that vacuum suck.
How does a tiny fraction of the population get away with this? They do it by dividing the other 99% of Americans against themselves."
- Marc Sumner 2025-05-30

Offline mr626

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Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 02 May 2012, 18:01:41 »
Quote from: 486;587925
A1 used computers?

Sigh, you seem to know all my secrets!

Quote from: ch_123;588038
Unicomps, and late production IBM Model Ms (Lexmark or Greenock made 42H1292s) have different membranes and controller types to the 'classic' variety. See here

If you're talking about the 102/103-key terminal keyboards, then sure, I've even tried this myself. Not the 122-key ones though, the controllers and membranes are incompatible with the regular sized boards.

Yes, I was aware of the differences with the late production membranes. The terminal boards I'm thinking of using are on of these:

http://www.a1usedcomputers.com.au/shop/prodView.asp?idproduct=2489
http://www.a1usedcomputers.com.au/shop/prodView.asp?idproduct=2530

So, you're saying that I can purchase one of these, and just swap controllers?

Quote from: fohat.digs;588365
The USPS offers "flat rate" game board boxes that go anywhere for $58. (or $16 domestic)

It took me a while to discover them, but anybody in the US who ships many keyboards will do themselves and their customers a service by using them.

Yes, this seems to be the common method that gets used. Apparently it will cost $58 for my 122 key Lexmark too.
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Offline 486

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Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 03 May 2012, 01:34:49 »
Well since trievalot posted that he found IBM At's for $10, this site has been well known. I may have newly joined but I know what goes on here. Don't worry, I won't buy those keyboards off you. :evil:
But I would recommend that you get this one instead.
http://www.a1usedcomputers.com.au/shop/prodView.asp?idproduct=2482
It is the same period in which the 1391401 is made so I would use this just to be sure.
And it has sweet keycaps.
« Last Edit: Thu, 03 May 2012, 01:37:20 by 486 »
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Offline mr626

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Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 03 May 2012, 05:39:15 »
Quote from: 486;588811
Well since trievalot posted that he found IBM At's for $10, this site has been well known. I may have newly joined but I know what goes on here. Don't worry, I won't buy those keyboards off you. :evil:
But I would recommend that you get this one instead.
http://www.a1usedcomputers.com.au/shop/prodView.asp?idproduct=2482
It is the same period in which the 1391401 is made so I would use this just to be sure.
And it has sweet keycaps.

The frustrating thing from my point of view is that I found a1usedcomputers on my own (before joining here)...but I was about 2 months too late.

Yeah, I saw that keyboard too. The others are cheaper though :-)
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Offline ch_123

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Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 03 May 2012, 05:48:03 »
Quote from: mr626;588497
Yes, I was aware of the differences with the late production membranes. The terminal boards I'm thinking of using are on of these:

http://www.a1usedcomputers.com.au/shop/prodView.asp?idproduct=2489
http://www.a1usedcomputers.com.au/shop/prodView.asp?idproduct=2530

So, you're saying that I can purchase one of these, and just swap controllers?


First one, yes. Second one is a non standard terminal keyboard which cannot be easily converted to PC usage. Generally, you should look out for 3161/3151 keyboards, as these are the most common 102-key terminal keyboards.
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Offline 486

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Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 03 May 2012, 06:21:27 »
Problem is that they only accept Credit card and on the front page it says something about it being insecure. I asked the guy about postage for and item and if he accepted Paypal. That was two weeks ago and still no response.
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Offline mr626

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Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 03 May 2012, 17:36:42 »
Quote from: ch_123;588887
First one, yes. Second one is a non standard terminal keyboard which cannot be easily converted to PC usage. Generally, you should look out for 3161/3151 keyboards, as these are the most common 102-key terminal keyboards.

Thanks for the confirmation. I'll see if I can order that one. Will be a great way to get my friend a 'cheap' Model M.

Quote from: 486;588896
Problem is that they only accept Credit card and on the front page it says something about it being insecure. I asked the guy about postage for and item and if he accepted Paypal. That was two weeks ago and still no response.

Yeah, the website is a bit of a shocker. I've just emailed them with a similar query to yours- if I don't hear back I'll call them. Phone calls are harder to ignore than emails :-)

Thanks everyone. If I do eventually get this board and manage to do a controller swap I'll post the results on here.
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Offline dorkvader

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Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 06 May 2012, 23:48:48 »
I've emailed A1 in the past. Be wary of their stock listings. Last time I checked, despite listing 1 available online, they actually had no 1392980's
http://www.a1usedcomputers.com.au/shop/prodView.asp?idproduct=2525

Best bet is to email them.

What's up with the green and gold keycaps? I suspect they are official IBM, but what is the significance?
http://www.a1usedcomputers.com.au/shop/prodView.asp?idproduct=2491
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Offline REVENGE

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Model M circuit sheet / controller compatibility
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 12 May 2012, 14:56:16 »
Man, they always have the best stuff. But shipping to the US is just too expensive. :(
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