Classified Forum Rules Discussion Thread

[MMB]

How can you tell when someone make money or not ? Let say that I paid 500 for a filco am I going to be punished because I am looking for 500usd (this is an example).? What is going to happen is that people wont buy it and I will be force to reduce the price

if you paid $500 for a filco... you're using silly non-real situations to compare to what is actually happening on this board.

And MMB - integrity is a major part of any strong community. sorta bums me out that you'd rather ignorant people get burned and reward ******* behavior than just make things right. unchecked capitalism (what I assume you mean by free market) does not exist in a vacuum removed from human behavior or communities, and what it does to both of those things is destroy them.

Again, if someone is willing to pay that much, especially in an auction situation, then it's what personal value they hold it at. It doesn't mean the seller lacks integrity just because you personally feel they are charging too much. How are they being an ******* because they put an item up for bid, and someone happens to want to drop way more than what it's worth on it? I have done that myself even with the knowledge that it wasn't worth that much, but I had to have it. You need to go in with those things in mind before making judgement calls, which you seem to be doing an awful lot of. Bottom line is, until GH says "NO AUCTIONS ALLOWED", you have no basis to complain, or at the very least, no business complaining in that particular thread. Those are the rules, I didn't make them. And until they change, you are going on and on about nothing right now.

[sth]

Again, if someone is willing to pay that much, especially in an auction situation, then it's what personal value they hold it at. It doesn't mean the seller lacks integrity just because you personally feel they are charging too much. How are they being an ******* because they put an item up for bid, and someone happens to want to drop way more than what it's worth on it? I have done that myself even with the knowledge that it wasn't worth that much, but I had to have it. You need to go in with those things in mind before making judgement calls, which you seem to be doing an awful lot of.

That's really not what I'm talking about here. You can tell because what you're saying is reasonable, and I'm not talking about reasonable behavior But really, yeah, if a buyer wants to pay more for something that's their deal. That says nothing of people running shady auctions or people getting too caught up in the moment and making a ****ty decision. I'm not saying we need to police sellers for nubs' sake, but there is certain ****ty behavior that can be banned without ruining the fun for everyone.

Bottom line is, until GH says "NO AUCTIONS ALLOWED", you have no basis to complain, or at the very least, no business complaining in that particular thread. Those are the rules, I didn't make them. And until they change, you are going on and on about nothing right now.

Rules change when people start talking, so that's what I'm doing. I have plenty of basis to complain when I see something I view as unjust being perpetuated by sellers who have more respect for money than people.

[alaricljs]

**** Taking off the moderator hat *****

So... how would you feel if I started selling PCB mount MX blue switches for $.50/ea +shipping (say $5.50) in the classifieds?

Let's preface this with the fact that most people in this thread know that there's a source selling at ~$.23

Am I taking advantage of anyone?  I personally don't think so.

try 2:

I start a GB for the same switches, we have to make it to 3200 switches and it's $.32 per switch plus the split shipping to me and the $5.50 to you.  If demik kept his fat mouth shut I could have done this and made myself ~$285.  In fact, I'd bet money I could have offered them for $.45 and made ~$700.

Here's the thing... I would never do it at cost like demik, my time is money.  I like GH and you guys, so I'd never do it at $.45/ea because that's just plain gouging.


How do you know the diff and moderate it?

[sth]

**** Taking off the moderator hat *****

So... how would you feel if I started selling PCB mount MX blue switches for $.50/ea +shipping (say $5.50) in the classifieds?

Let's preface this with the fact that most people in this thread know that there's a source selling at ~$.23

Am I taking advantage of anyone?  I personally don't think so.

Get a vendor forum.

try 2:

I start a GB for the same switches, we have to make it to 3200 switches and it's $.32 per switch plus the split shipping to me and the $5.50 to you.  If demik kept his fat mouth shut I could have done this and made myself ~$285.  In fact, I'd bet money I could have offered them for $.45 and made ~$700.

Here's the thing... I would never do it at cost like demik, my time is money.  I like GH and you guys, so I'd never do it at $.45/ea because that's just plain gouging.

How do you know the diff and moderate it?

Repeat behavior is a good indicator. Also, we are a fairly resourceful community. If you tried to sell them at that high a profit, somebody would very likely point out that they are priced much lower than you are selling them for. Of course, the seller could ***** about that being threadcrapping but it's no less relevant to the sale than mentioning that the source the GB operator is working with is shady and might rip off the GB operator.

I'm not saying people should never charge more than cost for things. I'm saying it should be transparent, and if it's discovered that you are intentionally misleading people to make a buck you are an ******* who has no place in a community-supported forum. Of course black and white rules will have exceptions. Thats why judgement calls should be made on a case-by-case basis.

[demik]

**** Taking off the moderator hat *****

So... how would you feel if I started selling PCB mount MX blue switches for $.50/ea +shipping (say $5.50) in the classifieds?

Let's preface this with the fact that most people in this thread know that there's a source selling at ~$.23

Am I taking advantage of anyone?  I personally don't think so.

try 2:

I start a GB for the same switches, we have to make it to 3200 switches and it's $.32 per switch plus the split shipping to me and the $5.50 to you.  If demik kept his fat mouth shut I could have done this and made myself ~$285.  In fact, I'd bet money I could have offered them for $.45 and made ~$700.

Here's the thing... I would never do it at cost like demik, my time is money.  I like GH and you guys, so I'd never do it at $.45/ea because that's just plain gouging.


How do you know the diff and moderate it?

[jcrouse]

and if it's discovered that you are intentionally misleading people to make a buck ....

That is a completely different situation and was not really what was being discussed. I don't like speaking for other people, but am guessing NOBODY is going to argue that intentionally misleading is acceptable. What you were arguing, I thought, was price gouging and invisible auctions. I realize you could equate intentionally misleading to invisible auctions, but remember, there are some honest and good people out there.

Suppose you post something and say you want $50. By the time you check your PMs the first guy offered you $50, but someone else offered $80 and someone else $90. Just something to think about ...

Also, suppose you had something that you paid $30 for but know you could sell it for $60 to $80. What do you do? Sell it for $30 because your part of a community? How about $40, just to cover a little time and effort (maybe shipping), how about the full $80. Where does it end. Short on the seller lying and being caught doing so, almost impossible, this is not regulatable. Even open bids, maybe he has a friend run the price up.

[sth]

and if it's discovered that you are intentionally misleading people to make a buck ....

That is a completely different situation and was not really what was being discussed. I don't like speaking for other people, but am guessing NOBODY is going to argue that intentionally misleading is acceptable. What you were arguing, I thought, was price gouging and invisible auctions. I realize you could equate intentionally misleading to invisible auctions, but remember, there are some honest and good people out there.

It's what I have been discussing this whole time, and it has happened. I am not looking to stir up more **** but this exact scenario came up last week for a current group buy.

Its the sellers choice whether to honor their original selling price or turn their straight-sale into a bidding war.
As far as my personal answer to your last paragraph, I trade as much as possible especially when it comes to items of questionable / relative value (like click clacks, cherry doubleshots, whatever it is). Prices for some things reflect their rarity but that doesn't mean that they are really worth that dollar amount -- just that somebody is willing to pay for it because they have the privilege of spending stupid amounts of money on plastic toys.

[DanGWanG]

Enforce rules about hidden bidding.  Keep everything free market and visible to the public.  Shame the sellers who rip people off (wall of shame/blacklist).  Educate buyers while still protecting sellers.

Edit:  Oh, and also constructive criticism (delivered in a non-offensive tone) about the price and availability should NOT be considered threadcrapping.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33033.0

[demik]

Enforce rules about hidden bidding.  Keep everything free market and visible to the public.  Shame the sellers who rip people off (wall of shame/blacklist).  Educate buyers while still protecting sellers.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33033.0

do this to traders too.

[sth]

Enforce rules about hidden bidding.  Keep everything free market and visible to the public.  Shame the sellers who rip people off (wall of shame/blacklist).  Educate buyers while still protecting sellers.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33033.0

do this to traders too.

What, and run the risk of getting a nickname like Mr. Dop? The danger is too great.

[DanGWanG]

I added this part to my post too, but you guys quoted me before my edit =/

Added:  Oh, and also constructive criticism (delivered in a non-offensive tone) about the price and availability should NOT be considered threadcrapping.

[fartq]

so, i think what's going to happen to the classifieds section is a couple of things will concretely change:

1) post bumping will be strictly controlled by the software. basically, no matter how many times you post "ttt, bump", etc. the post will simply not pop to the top of the page for anyone for 8-12 hours.

2) there will be an explicit way to mark your item "sold/traded/bought/w/e" that closes the thread automagically

we'll just start with that. as the current sticky says, actual active human moderation will be at a minimum for the time being. too many other fires at the moment. i do agree that if criticism is constructive, it should be allowed, in general, on the forum. that said, it really depends on what the entire userbase thinks. i do feel like, so far, we've done pretty well at being cohesive and constructive since the reboot, but i also know that this will change somewhat as we start growing rapidly again.

so in summary: good to debate this constructively, but nothing's going to change from its current wild-west state for a little while.

[Cindori]

Why can I not post in Classifieds? Need post count? How much?

[IPT]

so does talking about prices in the thread count as thread crapping now?

[boost]

so does talking about prices in the thread count as thread crapping now?

x2

[mztriz]

Is it okay to post a thread offering services for keycaps?

[clickclack123]

Can we please have a rule that sellers can't edit posts to remove the price when an item is sold? Then people can search and use previous sales as a gauge what a certain item usually goes for.

[SpAmRaY]

Can we please have a rule that sellers can't edit posts to remove the price when an item is sold? Then people can search and use previous sales as a gauge what a certain item usually goes for.

Well if they are decent people and you PM them I'm sure they will help you.

Also I was disappointed I thought this was a new thread at first

[IPT]

Can we please have a rule that sellers can't edit posts to remove the price when an item is sold? Then people can search and use previous sales as a gauge what a certain item usually goes for.

i'll be honest, its just a lot easier to delete the items you've sold when you're cleaning up a selling thread.

[jdcarpe]

Can we please have a rule that sellers can't edit posts to remove the price when an item is sold? Then people can search and use previous sales as a gauge what a certain item usually goes for.

i'll be honest, its just a lot easier to delete the items you've sold when you're cleaning up a selling thread.

Right, but then we lose the price history for future sales valuations. That's why I don't think the "one consolidated sales thread" idea is a good one. If each item, or group of items, that is sold are in one [FS] thread, and that thread is updated to say "SOLD" and then locked once that sale is complete, then the price history stays archived.

[SpAmRaY]

Can we please have a rule that sellers can't edit posts to remove the price when an item is sold? Then people can search and use previous sales as a gauge what a certain item usually goes for.

i'll be honest, its just a lot easier to delete the items you've sold when you're cleaning up a selling thread.

Right, but then we lose the price history for future sales valuations. That's why I don't think the "one consolidated sales thread" idea is a good one. If each item, or group of items, that is sold are in one [FS] thread, and that thread is updated to say "SOLD" and then locked once that sale is complete, then the price history stays archived.

Seems like I have much better luck selling things when the thread is for only one item and with as little other information as possible.

[IPT]

yeah but then you get people *****ing about having multiple sale threads
i agree, 1 sale thread per item is the easiest way to do it, then when items sold they get locked and moved to an archive forum perhaps.

But again, people complain if you have like 2 threads in classified.

[SpAmRaY]

yeah but then you get people *****ing about having multiple sale threads
i agree, 1 sale thread per item is the easiest way to do it, then when items sold they get locked and moved to an archive forum perhaps.

But again, people complain if you have like 2 threads in classified.

Well when people get carried away with 3 threads at once with multiple items in each thread and even linking the threads to one another....that I'm not so sure about.

[IPT]

yeah but then you get people *****ing about having multiple sale threads
i agree, 1 sale thread per item is the easiest way to do it, then when items sold they get locked and moved to an archive forum perhaps.

But again, people complain if you have like 2 threads in classified.

Well when people get carried away with 3 threads at once with multiple items in each thread and even linking the threads to one another....that I'm not so sure about.

so let me ask you this then.  Would it have been better when I'm selling 2 keyboards, keycap sets, novelty keys, and 3DS (lol) to have them all in 1 thread or make like 6 threads.  I'd prefer 6 threads instead of 1, but if i did that i'd have been *****ed at for all of eternity

[jdcarpe]

I think if you have multiple items for sale at one time, you should combine them into one thread. Then either mark or move the sold stuff to the bottom of the OP, or a *RESERVED* post in your thread. Then once everything has sold (or you give up), then lock it and start a new one for the next items you sell later.

[SpAmRaY]

I think if you have multiple items for sale at one time, you should combine them into one thread. Then either mark or move the sold stuff to the bottom of the OP, or a *RESERVED* post in your thread. Then once everything has sold (or you give up), then lock it and start a new one for the next items you sell later.

yeah but then you get people *****ing about having multiple sale threads
i agree, 1 sale thread per item is the easiest way to do it, then when items sold they get locked and moved to an archive forum perhaps.

But again, people complain if you have like 2 threads in classified.

Well when people get carried away with 3 threads at once with multiple items in each thread and even linking the threads to one another....that I'm not so sure about.

so let me ask you this then.  Would it have been better when I'm selling 2 keyboards, keycap sets, novelty keys, and 3DS (lol) to have them all in 1 thread or make like 6 threads.  I'd prefer 6 threads instead of 1, but if i did that i'd have been *****ed at for all of eternity

Well the only reason I see most people have for 6 threads is so you can post them 4 hours apart, then you can bump them at the same time everyday and link them all to one another and you get to stay exposed on the first page every 4 hours.

I think if you have multiple items for sale at one time, you should combine them into one thread. Then either mark or move the sold stuff to the bottom of the OP, or a *RESERVED* post in your thread. Then once everything has sold (or you give up), then lock it and start a new one for the next items you sell later.

^^ Yes I've done this in the past. Lately my selling has been somewhat spur of the moment where I just look at stuff I've got sitting around and ask myself how much I really wanted that item to begin with, which usually ends up in it getting put up for sale.

[regack]

I'm not saying I'm all for this, just tossing it out as a concept.  A lot of times people have multiple things to sell at once, like ProjectD said.  Would it at all make sense to have subsections of classifieds?

Keyboards - complete boards & directly related (wrist rests, cases, custom services)
Caps - singletons, sets, storage cases, I can't think of anything else, but maybe there is...
Other (the off-topic of classifieds) - shoes, microwave ovens, mice, external drives, sexy santa suits...

the 3DS - that's other, completely unrelated.   A FS thread titled....

               [FS] 2 keyboards, keycap sets, novelty keys, and 3DS

...is kind of crappy.  I would much rather see 3 subjects in targeted areas...

[FS] 1988 IBM Model M, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL, ErgoDox Acrylic Case (Unused)
[FS] (2x) R4 Spherical Set, Various Novelty Caps, purposely-melted candy corn Clack
[FS] Nintendo 3DS + Zelda

That said, I'm not much of a shopper, I don't go browsing the classifieds looking for anything and everything, I'm usually targeting something, so having things split out is easier for me. 

The other idea I had would be to offer tagging of posts (from predetermined lists) so the classifieds area could have filters applied to, but that's a lot more work (so somebody better get started tomorrow). 

[SpAmRaY]

Do we no longer have to post proper time stamps?

I notice more threads without them.

Of course I  report but maybe nobody is around to enforce the rules?



Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[xondat]

Do we no longer have to post proper time stamps?

I notice more threads without them.

Of course I  report but maybe nobody is around to enforce the rules?

I don't think some threads require them, as the actual product is one-off (I'm thinking ETF recently).

I have noticed a general increase, it's usually off-site members trying to sell on another platform, hence the lack of care.

It's the same with people running group buys off-site, but posting links in their IC instead of making a GB post, but that's another topic.

[SpAmRaY]

So is it fair game now to simply link to an r/mechmarket thread for a classifieds posting here?

Some reason I thought this was against the rules.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[hapakey]

This post should be in Suggestions subforum.

[HoffmanMyster]

So is it fair game now to simply link to an r/mechmarket thread for a classifieds posting here?

Some reason I thought this was against the rules.

Not necessarily against the rules, as it's effectively similar to posting all your items in a google sheet and linking that in the body of the post.  As long as the needed info is present, there shouldn't be any issues per the rules. 

That said, it's always easier/nicer if the content is directly in the body of the thread here on GH, just for ease of use.