ideal: silent buckling spring. what switch?

[eisenhower]

I've used a unicomp 104 before, and I loved the feel, and the sound. But the latter is an issue, since I usually listen to music and type around others.
So what I really want is a switch that feels like a buckling spring, but quieter.

From what I gather, cherry mx clears are the best. Nobody sells keyboards with these switches though, so my next choice are the cherry mx browns (namely the Leopold tenkeyless).
How tactile exactly is this switch? The seemingly most candid people say that they actually aren't very tactile at all.

Some complain that they are too light, which is bad for typing since that would result in accidentals. A rubber dome keyboard is about as light as I would really want it.

So, are the cherry mx browns a good choice? Or should I just learn to live with buckling springs?

[keyboardlover]

Welcome to Geekhack!

There ARE keyboards you can currently buy with clear switches. More info in the Worldwide Shopping wiki.

[Lanx]

bs is my fav switch, but it has many flaws, it takes a lot of force(unergonomic) and that clack.

if you want the best of "both worlds" you can create a switch that has the force and high resistance (cherry black) and have tactile feel (cherry white) by replacing the cherry black stem with a white stem, (it sounds like you want a lot of force, and tactility), search the modification section on this, it should be something like
ergo clears (this doesn't sound like the one for you)
panda whites

something like that

of course if you do not want to mod your own solution, i guess browns fit the bill, with less force and less tactility than a mod.

[mkawa]

check out the deck legend frost. mx clears backlit with a 104-key layout. you could also post a wtb on our classified forum for a leopold with mx clears -- there are some floating around

[Autolyze]

Clears and browns really don't feel very much like buckling springs in my opinion. You really shouldn't be experiencing accidental keypresses with either one, but they're very different animals.

Have you tried dental floss modding a BS board? I have no experience with the mod, but it should help with the sound a little.

If money isn't an issue, you may want to consider a 55g RealForce keyboard. They're very different from BS as well, but I think that they feel more satisfyingly tactile than clears and are quieter.

[Findecanor]

The dental floss mod will not work completely, though.  You get rid of the "twang" but not the "click" sound.
The sound actually comes from the spring itself as it reaches "catastrophic buckling". You can not remove the click sound without removing click feel.

I have been thinking that perhaps BS boards could be dampened a lot with sheets of sound-dampening foam in-between the barrels and under it inside the case, but I have not tried it and I don't know of anyone who has.

[eisenhower]

Are the browns actually tactile feeling? I've read a few posts about people who switched from BS to cherry browns and were disappointed.

I wouldn't want to spend over $150 on a keyboard, which precludes every option for a new keyboard with cherry clear switches I've seen.

check out the deck legend frost. mx clears backlit with a 104-key layout. you could also post a wtb on our classified forum for a leopold with mx clears -- there are some floating around

It doesn't need to have the same force v.s. position as a buckling spring (although I do enjoy it), but just solid tactile feedback of the switch engaging.

[mkawa]

browns do not have much of a tactile bump; imo they have less tactility than cherry blues, which are themselves worlds away from BS.

the clears are probably the most tactile of the cherry switches

the leopolds with clears went for about 110. a wtb ad in classifieds may be your best bet.

another option is to purchase a cherry board with pcb mounted keys and do the stem and spring swap to clears yourself.

[TexasFlood]

The brown bump is very subtile, some won't notice it at all. Of course I've only ever typed on well used brown boards so a new one might be better, someone else will have to comment on that. Either way I don't think it's going to approach the tactile or audible feedback of a BS.

[mkawa]

i've typed on new and used browns and blues. there's a pretty big gulf between BS and the tactility of either cherry switch. further, unless you're a light typer, you the brown tactile bump will feel very very subtle

[fohat.digs]

I have done a number of mods to buckling springs.

The floss mod works great, it cuts down perhaps 1/3 (maybe almost half) of the noise in actual decibels, but takes away the "ringing" component that carries. So, while it may not seem all that different to someone in the same room, to someone in the next room it makes all the difference in the world.

Padding inside the case is difficult, because the clearance at the bottom (spacebar) is very tight and you can't get much in. Felt is probably your best bet down there. It does help some.

Setting the board on a nice pad on the desk can be a big help, I use the cheap "waffle" rubber drawer liner from Wal-Mart.

My primary board today is a big ole Model F 122-key terminal with floss, felt, and some extra pillow stuffing packed loosely inside, and set on a drawer liner rectangle on the desk.

The feel is good, and the family does not complain because the sound does not carry nearly as far. When I get out my nearly identical, but not flossed and padded F-122, the difference is striking.

I have not tried the grease mod, it is supposed to work, but sounds gross and difficult. Also, the floss can be pulled out quickly if you don't like it.

[TacticalCoder]

Felt is probably your best bet down there. It does help some.

I've floss modded a long time ago and love it but what's "felt"?  Do you have a picture of that or a link?  (not native english speaker here)

[jwaz]

I've floss modded a long time ago and love it but what's "felt"?  Do you have a picture of that or a link?  (not native english speaker here)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felt

[funxion]

Before making a decision, I think it would be best to consider your options.

You seem open-minded to either buckling spring or Cherry MX switches, but you prefer buckling spring from past experience.

If I were you, I'd take a trip to your nearest electronics store (Best Buy preferably; they carry the Razer BlackWidow) solely to test out any board with Cherry MX switches if you have absolutely no experience with them.

It seems to me you haven't tried Cherry MX switches, which is fine, but just remember that with buckling spring, the tactility exists as a result of the spring buckling horizontal and it's more of a direct tactile feel. In Cherry MX switches, the spring isn't buckling, but rather two pieces of plastic overcoming a manufactured bump.

Tell whoever it is that the noise would bother to shut up if it bothers them and as far as music goes, turn the volume up!

[eisenhower]

Before making a decision, I think it would be best to consider your options.

You seem open-minded to either buckling spring or Cherry MX switches, but you prefer buckling spring from past experience.

If I were you, I'd take a trip to your nearest electronics store (Best Buy preferably; they carry the Razer BlackWidow) solely to test out any board with Cherry MX switches if you have absolutely no experience with them.

It seems to me you haven't tried Cherry MX switches, which is fine, but just remember that with buckling spring, the tactility exists as a result of the spring buckling horizontal and it's more of a direct tactile feel. In Cherry MX switches, the spring isn't buckling, but rather two pieces of plastic overcoming a manufactured bump.

Tell whoever it is that the noise would bother to shut up if it bothers them and as far as music goes, turn the volume up!

I used a das keyboard many years ago with cherry blues, but I don't remember it all that well. I definitely dislike the sound of the cherry blues. It sounds cheap and plastic-y. I like the "chunky" sound of buckling springs (but would prefer no sound)

I don't really understand why the cherry browns are so popular when they seem to lack what makes mechanical keyboards great? Unless they actually feel better than rubber domes (I can't imagine what that even means with little to no tactileness).

[funxion]

Browns are the only switch type I've had the chance to try thus far, but I can honestly tell you (especially coming from rubber-domes) that they're significantly better.

There is a noticeable tactile bump, but it's nothing that would initiate at "holy crap, was that a bump?" sort of thought.

I won't be trying any other switch personally. I can't stand the description of linear switches (total turn off) and blues seem cheap, as you've stated. Above all else, I am really content with my Filco with browns. It's a pleasure to type on.

My next board will either be a Model M SSK or a RealForce 87U 55g Uniform. Have you given any thought to a Topre board?

Sorry if I'm straying from the issue at hand, I just wasn't too sure if you had your heart set on a BS board or something of the like, or if you were in the market to try something else.

[keyboardlover]

I still think he should get a board with Clears.

[funxion]

I completely forgot about clears, but that actually might not be a bad idea if the browns tactility is too subtle for a BS user (which it most likely is).

I'd go for a Filco MJ2 with clears, but I have yet to find one!

[urbanus]

I don't really understand why the cherry browns are so popular when they seem to lack what makes mechanical keyboards great? Unless they actually feel better than rubber domes (I can't imagine what that even means with little to no tactileness).

What is it they lack, that makes mechanical keyboards great?  You mean tactility?  It's true that browns don't have much tactility, but that's not what makes mechanical keyboards great.

Actually, rubber domes are tactile!  Typically the pressure is near the top of the key movement. The dome buckles and mashes a membrane underneath.  Not pleasant, but technically tactile, since there is a pressure difference that lets you feel that each keystroke has actuated.

The main attraction of mechanical keyboards is that they have a switching mechanism that is more durable and reliable and that doesn't require bottoming out.  This is true of both tactile and linear mechanical switches.

The other attraction of mechanicals is that they are designed to offer various keystroke feels, so you can pick a style of switch that suits you.

I have a theory as to why browns are so popular.  A lot of people like the idea of tactile key switches, but actually they like the feel of linear and just don't know it yet.  :smile:

[mkawa]

another theory: different strokes for different folks!

[eisenhower]

What is it they lack, that makes mechanical keyboards great?  You mean tactility?  It's true that browns don't have much tactility, but that's not what makes mechanical keyboards great.

Actually, rubber domes are tactile!  Typically the pressure is near the top of the key movement. The dome buckles and mashes a membrane underneath.  Not pleasant, but technically tactile, since there is a pressure difference that lets you feel that each keystroke has actuated.

The main attraction of mechanical keyboards is that they have a switching mechanism that is more durable and reliable and that doesn't require bottoming out.  This is true of both tactile and linear mechanical switches.

The other attraction of mechanicals is that they are designed to offer various keystroke feels, so you can pick a style of switch that suits you.

I have a theory as to why browns are so popular.  A lot of people like the idea of tactile key switches, but actually they like the feel of linear and just don't know it yet.  :smile:

I've never heard of a rubber dome keyboard failing under normal conditions. You are much more likely to spill coffee on your keyboard before 10 million strokes. and even then, rubber domes will be more reliable because they are sealed. They are also much easier to manufacture consistently, and are easily replaced because of their low price.

I've noticed no tactility on any rubber dome keyboard. nothing even close to bs. but, suppose a linear mech switch might feel smoother than a rubber dome

[N8N]

I completely forgot about clears, but that actually might not be a bad idea if the browns tactility is too subtle for a BS user (which it most likely is).

I'd go for a Filco MJ2 with clears, but I have yet to find one!

I have one . Honestly it's still my favorite board but I'm honestly starting to warm up to blacks.  Haven't tried reds yet.

[mkawa]

I've never heard of a rubber dome keyboard failing under normal conditions. You are much more likely to spill coffee on your keyboard before 10 million strokes. and even then, rubber domes will be more reliable because they are sealed. They are also much easier to manufacture consistently, and are easily replaced because of their low price.

I've noticed no tactility on any rubber dome keyboard. nothing even close to bs. but, suppose a linear mech switch might feel smoother than a rubber dome

my ibm SSII TP boards and the M4-1s i've tried have tactile domes, but the bump is not nearly as smooth as a topre, and of course engagement is only at the bottom of the stroke.

[Internetlad]

From experience, if you're looking for a silent buckling spring experience, you'll have to go with Clear cherries. It's not the same but it's the closest you can get. Browns are like BS Jr. as far as the force goes. Browns are very light compared to BS.

I also personally like white alps, you get the click but it's not nearly so prominent.