Typing finger positioning

[okyup]

Spent a few hours on GNU typist today. I haven't taken typing lessons since I was in elementary school so it was interesting. I've sort of hacked together my own system of typing over the years which gets about 80 wpm, but unfortunately suffers from some problems:

1. Occasional glances at the keyboard for symbols, numbers, and rare letters, or when I've completely lost my position.
2. Using the wrong side modifiers, requiring large stretches of a single hand instead of using both hands.
3. Low accuracy and frequent backspacing.

After going through all the alphabet and symbols touch typing qwerty lessons I've just realized how painfully hard it is to type the "proper" way and accepted that I will never be able to do it, nor do I think I'd want to.

Main complaints:
- Left pinky to hit 'Z' is impossible. I currently use my left index finger to hit anything from 'Z' to 'B'.
- Similarly impossible to use right pinky to type 'P'. I've been using my right middle finger to hit any of 'I', 'O,' or 'P', but I'm considering switching to my 4th finger on my right hand for 'O' and 'P' as it seems more elegant.
- It's impossible for my middle finger to press '8', it just naturally hits '9' instead. I'm currently using my right index finger for '7' and '8'.

Once I properly memorize where all the keys are my typing experience will be improved. I plan to get unlabeled keys to completely break any habit of looking at them.

I have to wonder how many people follow the "proper" hands layout and how it's even possible to type on such a slant (all fingers moving from left top to right bottom).

[Djuzuh]

I have no problem hitting z with my lift pinky, and p with my right pinkie. :s

And I have none again to hit 8 with my middle finger :x

But I remember having those when I started using the homerow a lot more. I guess you kind of learn it if you force it.

[rowdy]

I can touch type if I have to (learnt at high school), but generally don't unless I am doing lots of documentation.  When I do, I rest my index fingers no the home keys, and have no problems reaching Z or P.

In fact I touch-typed that last sentence, and found the keys quite naturally.  I also have slightly larger hands, which helps on a normal size keyboard, but which makes typing on like an Asus EEE PC keyboard (or probably any small netbook keyboard) almost impossible.

But in general practice, doing a lot of programming, I tend to use the first two fingers on each hand and thumbs for Ctrl, Alt and Shift.  Lots of programming involves lots of symbols, and I have worked on a lot of different computers over the years, and each one had the symbol keys in a different position, so I kinda evolved my own typing style.

[stingrae]

Dunno something seems to be wrong with your hands? XD

have no issues hitting any keys with specific fingers although I am terribly bad with the number row (As I haven't practiced that much).

Sometimes I end up doing old habits paticularly when it comes to {}|\ which I tend to still end up using right shift for...

Anyway hopefully it's not a physical limitation using the entire hand definately relieves the fingers.

[Djuzuh]

Dunno something seems to be wrong with your hands? XD

have no issues hitting any keys with specific fingers although I am terribly bad with the number row (As I haven't practiced that much).

Sometimes I end up doing old habits paticularly when it comes to {}|\ which I tend to still end up using right shift for...

Anyway hopefully it's not a physical limitation using the entire hand definately relieves the fingers.

I think it's more because as you start learning proper home row typing, you are very tense, and your muscles are very cramped up. The more you type, the more your muscle will relax themselfs. And you won't end up in just trying to move your pinkie will keeping the hand on the homerow for example, but move your whole hand with it in order to go faster and to not fatigate your pinkie that much.

But that's just some sort of guess, there is no scientific value behind my words.

[okyup]

May be worth mentioning that I have big hands and broad shoulders.

This guy seems to have made similar observations: http://www.onehandkeyboard.org/standard-qwerty-finger-placement/

His finger chart:

[Djuzuh]

Somebody on this forum already said he typed like this. by shifting the bottom row by one. He said it worked great for him .

[PointyFox]

I use my right index finger for the B, my left middle finger for the Z, and my right index finger for P..  I can tell where my hands are due to feeling the shift keys with my pinkies and the nubs on the F and J.  I sort of just float above the keys instead of "touch typing" and I manage a WPM of about 62.

[dorkvader]

May be worth mentioning that I have big hands and broad shoulders.

This guy seems to have made similar observations: http://www.onehandkeyboard.org/standard-qwerty-finger-placement/

His finger chart:

Show Image

Hmm, that makes a lot of sense. At first I said: How can he hit Z with his ring finger? I realize that by turning my hands outwards a little, it is pretty simple. I do Dvorak, but I think I'll adopt this when I finally start learning to touch type properly.

[F u r u y á]

move your whole hand with it in order to go faster and to not fatigate your pinkie that much.

That's an important point!


@okyup: Instead of doing crazy bendings with your fingers (which can lead to discomfort or even pain), just move your hands/arms slightly, and try to not activate the key solely with your finger flexors; instead, try to utilize your arms/hands own weight to activate the keys while maintaining your fingers more relaxed. It's similar to playing a piano

Try to type as relaxed as you can, using a lot of your arms/hands own weight and freedom of movement to achieve that. Typing with hands in a fixed position does not work! (at least for me).

That way it's more easy and natural to "proper" type. I wouldn't abandone "proper" typing unless you're getting strain/pain issues.

Try to master touch typing with the whole layout, including number rows/brackets/punctuation. Also, always press Shift with your other hand (it's not hard to learn that). Some people can even press Space Bar with the other hand!

I can type around 100wpm on average (140wpm is my best) with that technique, with Qwerty layout.

[sth]

I've used 6 fingers for a while with the occasional pinky (enter mostly). I usually stick to the left side for modifiers too.

[squarebox]

Wait till you see me type...

PS. I no longer use my index finger for the spacebar after some online typing class but I didn't improve in my typing speed of 50~

[Djuzuh]

Your cherry keyboard is very good looking :x

[elef]

Somebody on this forum already said he typed like this. by shifting the bottom row by one. He said it worked great for him .

That was probably me. The colour chart above is exactly how I type. I never quite understood why it was decided that the "right" way to type is to hit Z with your pinky and X with your ring finger. To my mind, it is absurd. It's asymmetrical and contorted for no discernible reason.

[elef]

...you won't end up in just trying to move your pinkie will keeping the hand on the homerow for example, but move your whole hand with it in order to go faster and to not fatigate your pinkie that much.

The thing is, the home&bottom row is physically perfectly symmetrical, and so are your hands. With your right hand, using the "classical" technique, you can comfortably hit any key on the bottom row without moving the rest of your fingers from their home position. Why wouldn't you do the same thing on the left side? Why use a technique that requires you to move your whole hand?

[All The Fire]

I do something a little similar to Squarebox there. I can use all my fingers on my left hand but generally just use the index and middle on the right, with the 4th finger for all the symbols, maybe some 'P' and 'L' action. I use my left hand similar to the diagram a few posts up, but I can shift it left or right one row depending on how often I have to use the shift or 'T', 'G' and 'B'. I think this is mostly due to me having always used the right shift for all capitalisations but I switched to the left when I got my pure so I can use the right modifiers as arrows.

[Djuzuh]

The thing is, the home&bottom row is physically perfectly symmetrical, and so are your hands. With your right hand, using the "classical" technique, you can comfortably hit any key on the bottom row without moving the rest of your fingers from their home position. Why wouldn't you do the same thing on the left side? Why use a technique that requires you to move your whole hand?

Because it works xD.

I mean, either way you're gonna end up moving your hands around. So it doesn't matter.

Also, I think it's important to say that I type in bépo, and that on bépo, the bottom row is almost not used, EXPECIALLY the pinkie keys.

[geekabit]

I have (more or less) touch-typed for years and  managed to hit all the keys with a reasonable accuracy, without too much peeking. Then I switched to a matrix layout on my primary keyboard. This was a huge improvement in ergonomics and accuracy for the everything but the bottom row. Apparently I also shifted the bottom row by one. It took a while to re-learn the bottom row, but now my typing has improved on both matrix and staggered layout.

[Tony]

The fastest typist in the world, Sean Wrona, has his own way of typing positions, where he is using different fingers to type a key depends on the word he is typing.

Quote from http://seanwrona.com/typing.html
------------------------------------------------

I am also frequently asked for tips on typing faster. I believe my biggest advantage in typing is that I do not necessarily use the same finger to type the same key. I use whichever finger is most comfortable, which can vary based on the context of the letters in the word. I cannot completely explain what I'm doing since I have been doing it since my childhood and it comes naturally, but I do tend to use whichever finger is closest based on the positioning of my hands typing the other letters in the word.

Additionally, if you want to increase your speed, do not type each word at uniform speed. Speed through the easier words and take a little more time on the harder words to ensure accuracy. Always focus on the word after the word you are currently typing so there are no unnatural pauses in your typing. I recommend using caps lock instead of shift to type capital letters to allow more flexibility in the hand that you would normally use shift with.

Finally, with regard to online typing games, for whatever reason my scores seem to register higher in Google Chrome. Although this won't actually improve your speed, it could improve your nominal scores on certain typing sites.

[TacticalCoder]

Spent a few hours on GNU typist today

15 years ago or so I spent three months forcing me to touch-type every single keypress before I could reach the typing speed I was at before I decided to learn to touch-type (and I was already typing since 10+ years so it was quite difficult for me to switch).  It's only after that period that I began to benefit from spending the time learning that (and now I'm really glad I did learn to touch-type back then).

Three months.  If in a few hours you've decided you can't do it, I'd say you may need to try to persevere a bit more.  It would be like trying to play piano (or guitar) and deciding after a few hours that you can't do this or that because "your fingers are too distorted"  and that you'll never be able to do so :-/

But then before going further you may want to try a real ergonomic keyboard.  It goes something like that:

ergo  >  split + matrix layout  >  split + staggered  >  staggered.

Staggered layouts do not make any sense (and this comes from a staggered keyboard collector spending 10+ hours a day typing on a (staggered) IBM Model M).  

I wish I could switch to a Kinesis Advantage or some Maltron but sadly I'm way too much into buckling springs so I'm "stuck" with my Model Ms.

[Djuzuh]

15 years ago or so I spent three months forcing me to touch-type every single keypress before I could reach the typing speed I was at before I decided to learn to touch-type (and I was already typing since 10+ years so it was quite difficult for me to switch).  It's only after that period that I began to benefit from spending the time learning that (and now I'm really glad I did learn to touch-type back then).

Three months.  If in a few hours you've decided you can't do it, I'd say you may need to try to persevere a bit more.  It would be like trying to play piano (or guitar) and deciding after a few hours that you can't do this or that because "your fingers are too distorted"  and that you'll never be able to do so :-/

But then before going further you may want to try a real ergonomic keyboard.  It goes something like that:

ergo  >  split + matrix layout  >  split + staggered  >  staggered.

Staggered layouts do not make any sense (and this comes from a staggered keyboard collector spending 10+ hours a day typing on a (staggered) IBM Model M).  

I wish I could switch to a Kinesis Advantage or some Maltron but sadly I'm way too much into buckling springs so I'm "stuck" with my Model Ms.

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3purz4/

xD (sorry).

EDIT: ****, I did a typo. Well, I'm too lazy to edit it :x.

[okyup]

15 years ago or so I spent three months forcing me to touch-type every single keypress before I could reach the typing speed I was at before I decided to learn to touch-type (and I was already typing since 10+ years so it was quite difficult for me to switch).  It's only after that period that I began to benefit from spending the time learning that (and now I'm really glad I did learn to touch-type back then).

Three months.  If in a few hours you've decided you can't do it, I'd say you may need to try to persevere a bit more.  It would be like trying to play piano (or guitar) and deciding after a few hours that you can't do this or that because "your fingers are too distorted"  and that you'll never be able to do so :-/

Luckily I learned to touch type in school when I was probably 10 years old (albeit not all the symbols) and mostly retained this knowledge over the years. My recent GNU typist session was with the intent of improving my finger positioning/usage, since I've been long aware that I don't using the standard finger positioning, and improving on some of the symbols and modifiers and generally areas which I felt I had difficulty with.

In those 3 hours I made a rational decision not to try to use the keys that the typing programs and school teachers say are "right" because they feel unnatural and uncomfortable to me (and clearly to several others too). This decision had nothing to do with laziness.

[xyril]

Hey , you can download the modified QWERTY @ carpalx "site" (search at google).  And you can also create your own layout with it!!

I understand your pain,

. I also cannot press "Z" (its like awkward and didnt used to). But I changed the "Z" and replace it on "X .

So I can easily press. Since Z and X are rare in typing alphabets . (well imo, i type alot)...



- sry for my manglish , im not a very good english person. Hope you  understand


===================================
http://youtube.com/xyrilvlog

[kgleeson]

TIL about GNU-Typist, didn't know this existed, its awesome.
Thanks!

[F u r u y á]

It would be like trying to play piano (or guitar) and deciding after a few hours that you can't do this or that because "your fingers are too distorted"  and that you'll never be able to do so :-/

QFT

very good analogy.

[neverlast74]

@okyup
Everybody's body is different, - I can reach my toes with my hands - some can, some dont. Flexibilty also can make a difference - dont be surprised when you have to adapt ... I think adapting is one step after failing; so this is generally good.

I also changed from the correct *cough* way of typing very early.
So my hands rest relaxed on my kb. Each finger does not have a vertical but an angled work area. Just to illustrate ....my left middle finger is covering r,d,x my left ring finger e.s.z.

[9-bit]

Yeah, I doubt any of the people here use homerow. That mostly worked with older people that first came into the computing scene. I completely touch type, and I kind of use homekeys, but I have huge fingers so I don't really have to position them anywhere. I get 70 WPM with no errors, and like 90 with 25345334534 errors ^_^ I do hit backspace a lot more than I would like to, but I don't have any real need to type that fast, so it works for me.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

My motor control is so out of wack … I find that, for one thing, my accuracy depends on the keyboard to some extent: I'm slightly more accurate with Topre variable than Cherry brown/blue as the keys require more effort and offer more positioning feedback and/or forcing an extra fraction of time to react and process. I prefer the clean feel of mechanical, but Topre is definitely easier to type on. (At the moment, my work PC has my FILCO MX brown, Topre variable, and Tactile Pro 3 all connected.)

I don't really understand my own method of typing, but what I do notice is that my speed and accuracy vary wildly without obvious reason, from being able to bang out paragraph after paragraph at speed with few if any errors, to having to backspace blocks of letters repeatedly in pretty much every single word (more annoying if I keep backspacing a different number of keystrokes to how many I entered).

I am not sure whether it generates a greater or lesser cognitive load than touch typing – my fingers have to move more, so there's lower stress from ultra fine movement and awkward motions, but there's also a lot less reason and order to my finger motions. In general I have to get into a "zone" where my mental processing is correctly devoted to typing – typically when I'm writing a long and fully pre-meditated e-mail I can type rapidly and reliably, but if I have to think too hard or my focus is compromised (i.e. 98% of the time) I can't type straight to save my life.

I can't think engrossing thoughts while descending stairs, either, as my brain switches off balance processing and I just enter free fall and have to grab the hand rails. Every layer of my brain is weird.

[Zykos]

Use whatever you think is comfortable.