Author Topic: Keyboard for a programmer (Read 4730 times)

Rafen · « **on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 08:23:49 »

I am currently a student working on a bachelors degree in computer programming. I have tried many different keyboards over the years and right now I am using a Leopold FC500 w/ browns. I was wondering what would be a good keyboard for programming? I would like to hear from people who are currently in this occupational field. I am open to any suggestions.

Thanks,
Rafen

Autolyze · « **Reply #1 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 09:54:30 »

I do most of my coding at work, where I generally use a 55g Realforce, since it's both quiet and fun to type on. At home I mix things up a bit more, but the clicky switches like MX blues are usually my preference. In the end it's all a matter of whatever is most comfortable, but I think tenkeyless boards are a little better for people learning to program since they force you to get more used to touch typing the number row.

jpc · « **Reply #2 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 10:02:48 »

Kinesis Advantage. It's an excellent design. This board WILL teach you to touch type using correct finger-to-key assignments; there is no other way to use it.

I am a programmer with 12 years of industry experience. I wish that I'd used a Kinesis from the outset.

mcc · « **Reply #3 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 10:07:20 »

Hi Rafen,

I am using Linux only, so your mileage may vary when you are on another operating system. Furthermore I am using vim (a improved version of the vi) as my only editor so your mileage may vary also when it comes to this point. But...
As a programmer I only posessed two keyboards -- a Cherry MX 1000 of the pre-PS2-era and a IBM model M (1987 QWERTY), which I currently use.
If you ask me: IBM model M is king!

Best regards,
mcc

Icarium · « **Reply #4 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 10:20:22 »

Geekhack needs a keyboard oracle and a FAQ.

To answer the question:
I think layout is much more important than switch, especially for programming where you are constantly using characters that are very far of the homerow AND require a modifier with a regular layout.

To actually answer the question:
The Kinesis Advantage is amazing I really love that. Even though some of the common programming shortcuts are a bit tedious to press. (Layout again...)

I also very much favor clicky switches, Model F is the best one imho but the layout is a bit weird (Layout again...)
If you're going to be working in an office with other people you won't get much love for using a clicky switch, though.

I think my final recommendation will therefor be a Kinesis with browns. If you don't mind bottoming out reds may be a fine choice as well.

Djuzuh · « **Reply #5 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 10:21:36 »

Quote from: jpc on Sat, 21 July 2012, 10:02:48

Kinesis Advantage. It's an excellent design. This board WILL teach you to touch type using correct finger-to-key assignments; there is no other way to use it.

I am a programmer with 12 years of industry experience. I wish that I'd used a Kinesis from the outset.

You can touch type on another keyboard too !

But what is important if you programm, is that you have access to all the symbols you need, and that it's nice to type on. So just use whatever you like !

Ergo solutions can be something to look into since you'll type your whole life, but a lot of people have typped their whole life without getting any RSI.

whiskerBox · « **Reply #6 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 10:36:45 »

I use an hhkb at work. It's the layout that made me fall in love. Although I also like tkl as well. Personal preference really.

Rafen · « **Reply #7 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 10:44:18 »

Thanks a lot guys.

I think I might start looking into layouts now. I really like the qwert layout since this is what I'm accustom too. I think I might stick with this but might go with a board like the Happy hacker or the Kbt Pure. I'm not really a fan of the ego boards. I used one in the past and really didn't like the feel of it.

Icarium · « **Reply #8 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 10:45:36 »

RSI is a real problem if you do get it so I suggest looking into it before that happens. We should probably collect tips and stories somewhere...

alaricljs · « **Reply #9 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 10:47:44 »

RSI is a real problem but it is not definite that you 'get it' by typing a ton on a QWERTY KB or one that's not 'ergo'. I've been hammering away for 20+ years and have absolutely no problems or indication of any. Personally I attribute it to my never having taken a typing class and not using the 'home row' since it is very obvious that it's not my genetics (dad and mom both have massive RSI issues).

Djuzuh · « **Reply #10 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 10:55:39 »

Quote from: alaricljs on Sat, 21 July 2012, 10:47:44

RSI is a real problem but it is not definite that you 'get it' by typing a ton on a QWERTY KB or one that's not 'ergo'. I've been hammering away for 20+ years and have absolutely no problems or indication of any. Personally I attribute it to my never having taken a typing class and not using the 'home row' since it is very obvious that it's not my genetics (dad and mom both have massive RSI issues).

I agree with alaricljs.

Prevent RSI by taking a good position, making pauses and whatever, but do not think that a ergo keyboard or a nicer layout will prevent everything.

jpc · « **Reply #11 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 11:40:23 »

If someone smokes for 20 years and doesn't have cancer yet, was it a good idea?

Sure, a lot of things must add up to create RSI. Stress, no breaks, no stretching, age, bad desk/chair/monitor placement, the genetic lottery, the QWERTY layout, mice and reliance on GUIs, and heavy keys, multiplied by years of use will just about do it. Young programmers: you are not immune. Fix those risk factors.

I used Model Ms for years. The high force switches were painful. It took too long to recognize this because I loved the Model M. It looks great, it's well made, it sounds badass, and it kills hands.

The Kinesis does everything well. It makes you a more efficient typist, by forcing you to touch-type and putting return and backspace at your thumbs. Your hands never need to find their place on the Kinesis, they only fit in one place. It's TKL, NKRO, firmware-programmable with macros and stuff. It's a great design that just happens to be ergo.

boost · « **Reply #12 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 11:46:12 »

I use blues at work for programming.

SaiZn · « **Reply #13 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 12:54:58 »

I have a KBT Pure and I use the arrow keys a lot for navigating code and selecting things. The arrow keys on the Pure are easy to access since they're above the Fn key. The only thing I don't like about it is that I can't use left shift to select things while using those arrow keys since Fn + left shift is Ctrl + Alt + Del and using right shift feels a little awkward to me.

Rafen · « **Reply #14 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 13:55:08 »

Yeah that does sound like a pain. I should have bought a Poker when I had the chance too, now they are so hard to come by with brown switches.

Findecanor · « **Reply #15 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 14:06:47 »

For me, as a programmer, I am really dependent on the PgUp/PgDn/Home/End keys.
I usually spend more time browsing through and editing existing code than writing new code, so the keys get a lot of use.

Use light switches to avoid RSI. Use some sharply tactile switches like the Cherry MX Blue (if the sound is OK with your workplace), Cherry MX Clear or maybe Topre for typing. Browns are not optimal.

Djuzuh · « **Reply #16 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 14:11:05 »

Quote from: Findecanor on Sat, 21 July 2012, 14:06:47

For me, as a programmer, I am really dependent on the PgUp/PgDn/Home/End keys.
I usually spend more time browsing through and editing existing code than writing new code, so the keys get a lot of use.

Use light switches to avoid RSI. Use some sharply tactile switches like the Cherry MX Blue (if the sound is OK with your workplace), Cherry MX Clear or maybe Topre for typing. Browns are not optimal.

Vim, and probably emacs has superior movement keys. Moving your hands around is meh.

Pixel_Outlaw · « **Reply #17 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 15:40:49 »

The model M of course.

If you are a programmer you are an important person.
People need to hear that with the thunder of keys and a flash of beige.
It will frighten them like startled horses during a thunderstorm.

Beige and noise are not something seen and heard today.
I find the Model M well suited for Emacs.

That said, I do like blue Cherry switches too...
Good luck brother in code.

theultrazord · « **Reply #18 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 15:47:04 »

If you have a significant other or roommate please go with a topre board like the realforce. Some of my friends are programmers and I notice that their offices and computer areas are always as far away from the bedroom as possible.

cinch · « **Reply #19 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 17:45:05 »

programming involves alot of random keystrokes, and not typing long texts.
i've tried browns at work for programming but don't like them.
i'd recommend cherry reds or blues. (havent tried ergo clears or topre yet though).

kgleeson · « **Reply #20 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 17:50:20 »

Quote from: Djuzuh on Sat, 21 July 2012, 14:11:05

Vim, and probably emacs has superior movement keys. Moving your hands around is meh.

Once you have vim movement down, its pretty hard to edit text in anything else.

andrewpsy · « **Reply #21 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 22:19:36 »

Try HHKB, the only problem is you can't stand the rest of the keyboards.f

Rafen · « **Reply #22 on:** Sat, 21 July 2012, 22:26:43 »

Quote from: cinch on Sat, 21 July 2012, 17:45:05

programming involves alot of random keystrokes, and not typing long texts.
i've tried browns at work for programming but don't like them.
i'd recommend cherry reds or blues. (havent tried ergo clears or topre yet though).

You think it would be the reds and browns that you like not the blues. I love the feel of browns and don't have a problem with them when coding. Not really a fan of the blues when coding.

stingrae · « **Reply #23 on:** Sun, 22 July 2012, 03:53:57 »

Quote from: cinch on Sat, 21 July 2012, 17:45:05

programming involves alot of random keystrokes, and not typing long texts.
i've tried browns at work for programming but don't like them.
i'd recommend cherry reds or blues. (havent tried ergo clears or topre yet though).

Random keystrokes Oo...what are you writing? Almost all my programming has reuse of the basic concepts and my used variables/classes. Nothing random at all about my keystrokes, linear congruential prng is more random than my programming keystrokes.

I haven't used browns in a long time but I remember being dissapointed when moving to reds. Blues are nicer for me for now.

I think the kinesis would be worth a try but maybe once I have decided where and what exactly I want to do as a programmer.

Edit: Given IDEs shortcuts I don't think the HHKB is that great purchase although it is perfectly usable not having function keys is not useful in a windows environment.

cinch · « **Reply #24 on:** Sun, 22 July 2012, 06:15:38 »

Quote from: stingrae on Sun, 22 July 2012, 03:53:57

Quote from: cinch on Sat, 21 July 2012, 17:45:05
programming involves alot of random keystrokes, and not typing long texts.
i've tried browns at work for programming but don't like them.
i'd recommend cherry reds or blues. (havent tried ergo clears or topre yet though).

Random keystrokes Oo...what are you writing? Almost all my programming has reuse of the basic concepts and my used variables/classes. Nothing random at all about my keystrokes, linear congruential prng is more random than my programming keystrokes.

well in my case i'm doing alot of things on a unix cli with bash and vim, so ton's of shortcut keys.
in an ide it's more regular typing, although still alot of shortcuts while making short edits and heavy use of special characters in the programming language.
so in the end, i'm rarely "hammering away" as in writing a long text but more like: brief bursts of "hacks".

@rafen: true, browns or blues: too subjective to say which is better. two of my coworkers swear by blue's, but it's too loud for me.

Rafen · « **Reply #25 on:** Sun, 22 July 2012, 07:34:08 »

Quote from: cinch

@rafen: true, browns or blues: too subjective to say which is better. two of my coworkers swear by blue's, but it's too loud for me.

I have used the blues on many different occasions and I owned a board with blues and they were too loud and stiff for my tastes. I know for sure no matter what cherry board I get it will have browns. As far as topre not really sure. I would probably get uniform 45 if I decided to get a realforce.

This upcoming semester I have a programming class and some writing intensive classes. So, I think I will buy a topre board and another keyboard with a small form factor and see which on I like the best when coding.

iMav · « **Reply #26 on:** Sun, 22 July 2012, 07:39:15 »

I absolutely LOVE the HHKB layout. That being said, I also type primarily on my Kinesis.

Rafen · « **Reply #27 on:** Sun, 22 July 2012, 07:44:15 »

Quote from: iMav on Sun, 22 July 2012, 07:39:15

I absolutely LOVE the HHKB layout. That being said, I also type primarily on my Kinesis.

Haha that's a huge help there iMav.

daerid · « **Reply #28 on:** Sun, 22 July 2012, 22:28:14 »

I have a RF 87ub 45g at home, and I love that thing so much (I can't imagine what a 55g would feel like, ugh), that I'm thinking of buying a second one for the office and offloading all my cherry boards.

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Author Topic: Keyboard for a programmer (Read 4730 times)