Topre Realforce 103UB Malfunctioning 'S' key

[Razultull]

Hey guys so just today i noticed that my "S" key is really playing up and im having to press down on it rather hard for it to register. I have sent an email to elite keyboards, but i was wondering if there was anything i could do on my end?

Of course, i took off the key cap and inspected the base, and could see nothing obstructing its action. It appears to be present underneath the actual piston, probably something wrong with the dome. It also feels slightly more "dull" than my other keys, if that makes any sense.

If there's anyone who could help, i would greatly appreciate it.

TIA

[kalrykh]

If you dont have any luck with EK and don't mind a bit of a destructive mod, I have a suggestion.  On the 103's, the S should be part of one of the main sheets of domes.  If the rubber itself is bad, you can cut out that dome and replace it with the dome from a key you dont use or don't use often.  Otherwise, you shouldn't have to press hard at all, unless the capacitive spring got distorted.  That shouldn't happen unless you took it apart and were a bit careless with the reassembly.  If you don't get any help from EK and want to actually try to mod it to fix it, send me a PM.  I'd give EK a few days to respond though.  He seems to have selective reading skills. 

[Razultull]

I am awaiting their next reply after i explained to them i may have dropped a rather heavy book on the keyboard, but i am not sure, because that could have only happened a few day ago and the keyboard was fine till now.

Thank for your reply, I don't mind opening the keyboard and snooping about since the warranty has expired.

[limmy]

Maybe spring is misplaced hence screwing up with electrostatic capacitive action of Topre switch? I think your best bet is to open up the board with screwdriver and examine it.

I would recommend you use proper screwdriver(use PH1 size; the screws are pretty tightly screwed down so if you crappy screwdriver you may damage the screw heads) and pay attention not to loose any springs when you unscrew them.

[Razultull]

To be perfectly honest, im not that sure of how exactly to open it up. On the back there are 4 horizontal clip kind of mechanisms that i think i need to prop open, i guess the screwdrivers would come in after? Anyone have a good link or something i can refer to before diving in?

[limmy]

Ripster's guide would have been useful but all the images from previous posts are lost..

Here is one link that has some photos how to disassemble Realforce. http://www.geocities.co.jp/kousaku_situ/silent_realforce/srf-pata1.html
You open the four clips with your finger nails and unscrew the screws. But it feels like you are not at all comfortable opening them up and I don't know how helpful this would be...

[002]

You can open a Realforce without any tools at all actually.
Just gently push the tabs underneath the keyboard towards the front edge and the top should pop right off.

There are a ****load of screws holding the PCB to the plate though. When you've removed all the screws, just lift the PCB off and observe the rubber sheeting. From my experience the sheeting is usually stuck to the PCB which is good.

Carefully adjust the problematic key by ensuring that the spring sits nicely under the dome. Worst case scenario is the rubber sheeting falls away from the PCB and springs go everywhere, so do it in a high visibility environment

If problem is with the switch itself then let me know. You can also remove these from the metal plate without tools if you have decent dexterity.

Let me know if you need any specific details.

[Razultull]

thanks a lot for your feedback guys i will try doing it tomorrow and post back here with images/results.

[Razultull]

Update

So i managed to open up the keyboard and but at this point was still unawares as to the full complexity of what i was about to face.


No idea what was about to befall me.




So upon seeing the myriad of screws and since they were placed slightly differently from the link given above, i decided to take them all off anyway.

Complication 1:

As i neared the last of the screws i was determined to fix my keyboard and for some reason i sped up, on the very last screw i completely stripped it before i knew what was happening. This meant i wouldn't be able to remove the entire PCB or the domes that were beneath the very key i needed to access without breaking the PCB.


Complication 2:

One of the benefits of living in a tropical country is the constant reminder that there are billions of insects that exist in close proximity to you and your house regardless of your personal inclinations.

As a result i found hundreds of ants that had crawled into my keyboard and died around the rubber domes. Along with them were all kinds of little food items they had gathered for some kind of morbid after life feast.



after i had cleaned most of them, but you can still see what im kind of talking about.

Complication 3:

As i slid the top part back over the domes after cleaning, i knocked out the springs of number 1, 2 and the shift key as well the escape key. I was able to replace the escape key and the shift key but not the 1 and 2 keys.



Final result:


I managed to get the S back to normal and it works great. However it is extremely difficult for me to press down on the shift key and it requires a great deal of strength to actuate it, also the one and two keys simply do not work because of the missing springs.





I guess i need someone to actually repair it properly now, unless someone knows a way of removing a completely stripped screw. Thanks to those who helped, it was my own fault that i completely messed it up. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[002]

I suppose that you're going to have to take it apart again to fix the Shift.

When you put it back together, if the sheeting has come away from the PCB, then you should just hold the mounting plate so the bottom of the switches are facing up, then lay the sheet in that.
Once you've laid it all out nicely, then you put the springs in and lay the PCB on top. Put screws in each corner and one or two in the middle, then test all the switches.

Remember that the rubber controls the weight of the switch, not the spring (only applies if you're using a variable board).

I've found that this methord is a lot easier than trying to drop the mounting plate down onto the rubber sheet and I had the same problem with the spacebar on my HHKB (Japan Layout) when I was putting it back together last week.

As for the stripped screw, it depends what you mean. If the screw still turns but is going nowhere, then get a razor blade or sharp knife and put it between the PCB and head of the screw (careful not to damage PCB), then lever it up as you unscrew.
If the head of the screw has been ground down then extraction will be more difficult. I would try a pair of needlenose pliers or vice grips for something like that.

[kalrykh]

Yeah sorry I should have warned you.  It's extremely important to use the right size screwdriver on these boards.  I rounded out two before someone pointed out to me what should have been obvious when I started.  When the tip of the screwdriver is in the head of the screw, there should be as little play as possible.  I ended up having to use some cutters to notch the outside of the screw head so I could get a grip on it with some bent head pliers that wouldn't mess up the pcb. 

[Razultull]

Update 2

My dad came to the rescue and taking a nail file and a pair of pliers he roughed up the edges of the stripped screw and slowly turned it round and round with the pliers. It eventually came out, and i was able to clean the entire thing and make sure all the keys were working correctly.




After i put it all back together i found the enter key had gone askew(hehe) and i had to unscrew EVERYTHING again(something close to 30 screws). ;-;

But now everything is spiffy and it feels almost like new. Thanks again 002 and limmy for your fantastic help.

[kalrykh]

Also, if one of the keys is hard to press, the dome probably got pinched or out of place during reassembly.  When I assemble mine, I use two blocks to hold the plate up and put all the domes in upside down, then all of the springs.  I use a small tool, looks like a dental scraper, to press lightly on the edges of the springs to make sure it's perfectly vertical.  Then I put the pcb over it and lower it, looking through the screw holes to line them up with the holes in the plate.  If you do this and don't get impatient, you shouldn't have any problems with anything not being seated correctly. 

[Razultull]

and thanks to you kalrykh as well!!

Everything is working like normal now

[kalrykh]

i was typing on my phone at work. you snuck in between my two posts

[MMB]

It's such a fancy rubber dome, isn't it?

[kalrykh]

meatball, them's fightin words! they sure as hell feel better than ergo clears

[MMB]

I was joking, but being serious at the same time They are technically rubber domes.

Also... I own topres...

[kalrykh]

Technically, sure.  Then again, I could compare buckling springs to domes too, since they both use a mechanism to push two membranes together to make contact, versus the awesomeness that is capacitive springs   I don't think many would appreciate my view of the similarities though

[limmy]

Ants in your Realforce?? Wow, I didn't expect that. I guess that was the reason why the S key didn't work. Good to hear you managed to fix your RF.

And I warned you about the screws being striped. Them screws are tight!

Also, there is one more comment I would like to make for future reference. Since there is a lot of force applied to the screws, it is recommended that you do not unscrew completely in the first try(i.e. loosen it partly by turning the screws by one or two turns first). If you are unscrewing part of the screws completely then even more force is applied to the rest of the screws. I knew about using correct sized screw driver but didn't know about the other fact and one of screws' head BROKE off while I was screwing back the screws. I guess one of them weakened or cracked while I was unscrewing.

I replaced the broken white screw with M2 screw and it works fine. (black screw doesn't seem to be standard size screw, but the white one is. White one is M2.)
The screw I purchased to replace the broken one is M2 5mm screw.

Here is my measurement of the black screw in case you stripped one of those:
diameter 2.20mm
length thread 7.84mm
length total 9.53mm
head diameter 3.83mm

[Razultull]

haha i noticed that the silver screws are so much softer than the black ones(not that those aren't soft either).

I was actually perplexed when i saw that they hadn't stuck any of the domes down at all, i don't get that, why wouldn't want them to stay in place? Is it so they can be easily replaced/moved?

[o2dazone]

ughhh ffs dude