Comptekw2k Continues To Roll Out the IBM M Minis

[bigpook]

no doubt. its a '92 also. I should email him and see if he would tell me what other years he has. He's probably got a shipping container full of them in his back yard : )

[watduzhkstand4]

damn what a lucky guy. I wish i had a stock of Model M in my closet

[bigpook]

I wonder where the sellers get their cache from. Especially the NIB's.

[wellington1869]

I wonder where the sellers get their cache from. Especially the NIB's.

it had to be a really lucky find, or maybe he's an ex-engineer at some company and realized their value. In many cases 20-year old extra keyboards might have just been chucked or donated away, it takes someone with a little bit of specialized knowledge to know to sell these one at a time on ebay.

And if he really has a crate of them (50? 25?) at $200 a pop he's going to have some serious vacation money on hand soon

[itlnstln]

I wonder where the sellers get their cache from. Especially the NIB's.

Counterfeiters.

[watduzhkstand4]

Counterfeiters.

lmao.

[wellington1869]

Counterfeiters.

I often wish I were rich enough to make my own production line.  There are so many products I'd produce off it, profitable or not.

And here's what I dont get -- so Unicomp knows these minis go for $200 -- and still they dont want to produce an updated version?

As I keep saying - when they run out of business, its going to be their own damn fault.

[itlnstln]

so Unicomp knows these minis go for $200

Do they?  I know they lurk from time-to-time, but I wonder if they truly realize what kind of market they're missing out on.
 
 

As I keep saying - when they run out of business, its going to be their own damn fault.

QFT.

[wellington1869]

Do they?  I know they lurk from time-to-time, but I wonder if they truly realize what kind of market they're missing out on.

well, put it this way -- if they dont even do this kind of most rudimentary market research which would tell them all this, then once again not only do they deserve to fail, but when they do it'll be their own damn fault!

I truly dont get their seeming apathy (from their website to their rapidly aging product line).  Is it from lack of competition? Or the owner is just getting old and ready to retire and doesnt care what happens to the product?

[bigpook]

I think ripster hit it on the head. The cost of the machines to create these boards is probably astronomical. Even if Unicomp WANTED to produce model m mini's they probably could not get the financing to do it.

[wellington1869]

I think ripster hit it on the head. The cost of the machines to create these boards is probably astronomical. Even if Unicomp WANTED to produce model m mini's they probably could not get the financing to do it.

even with the market sustaining a $200/unit retail price?

[itlnstln]

As I keep saying - when they run out of business, its going to be their own damn fault.

Not to drag this thread too far off course, but it really seems that Unicomp is company of assembly line workers with no R&D, Marketing or Engineering departments.  I know they are somewhat limited in their production due to machinery, parts, etc., but as the old business credo goes, if you're not growing, you're dieing.  Since they don't seem to be adding any new products to the lineup, it looks like they are doing the latter.  
 
I think they are limiting themselves in this mindset that they don't get many repeat buyers since their product lasts forever.  Well, pretty much everyone here as multiple, ever-lasting keyboards even if if they're the same switch type and even the same exact model.  The only reason people buy one or two 'boards from them is that they don't really offer anything new.  If they came out with new product lines, colors, accessories, etc., I think they could make a killing.  Hell, if they offered the Spacesaver (the one they currently sell) in, say, 4 or 5 different (good) colors, they would get people that would collect the whole set (especially if you got mix-and-match the key colors).

[itlnstln]

even with the market sustaining a $200/unit retail price?

I don't think Unicomp could sell them at $200.  $125-$150 probably.  The reason they're getting $200 on eBay, apart from scarcity, is because they are original IBMs.  If Unicomp were to start reproducing them, the scarcity factor would not exist, and they certainly aren't original IBMs.

[wellington1869]

 if they offered the Spacesaver (the one they currently sell) in, say, 4 or 5 different (good) colors

can you imagine? It would be like some dawn of an amazing new keyboard era.

And this is an example of their not having to do a damn thing to the assembly line, just pour in some FD&C #5 into the plastic mixing vat.

[itlnstln]

can you imagine? It would like some dawn of an amazing new keyboard era.

 
I mean, they wouldn't have to do anything new, just add dye to their current plastic mixture (or source the different colors of plastic if it comes pre-dyed). I'm thinking like selling a red case with black keys, blue case with cream keys, etc. I would kill for a chocolate brown 'board with cream keys, and it would be a 'board they already manufacture.
 
Oh, and they would have to do something about that logo on the lock lights.

[wellington1869]

I don't think Unicomp could sell them at $200.  $125-$150 probably.  The reason they're getting $200 on eBay, apart from scarcity, is because they are original IBMs.  If Unicomp were to start reproducing them, the scarcity factor would not exist, and they certainly aren't original IBMs.

sure but I think there's an argument to be made that they could market them as having the classic buckling technology core in a radically updated package, which might make them quite valuable, maybe more so than the original.

[wellington1869]

I mean, they wouldn't have to do anything new, just add dye to their current plastic mixture

ya, exactly. Here's a case where all it'd take is imagination which is free and they seem to be lacking even that

[wellington1869]

At the Kentucky CHASE bank.   Mr B (banker) and Mr U (Unicomp).

B:   Long time no see, what brings you here?
U:   New product idea, need some money.  You see, a bunch of these old mechanical keyboards from 25 years ago are selling like hotcakes.
B:   I've heard of Ebay.  My husband buys Cupie dolls there.
U:   No, this is going to make us MILLIONs.
B:   OK, how many you  gonna sell.
U:   I dunno.  This guy sells one a week.  There's this website named Geekhack with over 500 members.
B:  How much to retool?
U:  $40,000
B:  (Clicks on the calculator a bit.)  Boy, the weather here has sure turned hot......

lol, this isnt quite accurate tho. FOr instance, a (very inexpensive) color upgrade would affect all of unicomp's models, not just one.  If they retool to produce minis they can again produce a range (for instance, with trackpoint and without). The 40k isnt going into just one model but into revamping their whole (already existing and already selling) product line.  

And if they're smart they'll allocate a part of that to a more targeted marketing campaign too.

I mean look, the Das company and matias basically have one model which is their big seller, and they're not only in business but seem to be thriving. Unicomp has more than just one model and it seems perpetually on the verge of bankruptcy.  

The difference is in ambition and imagination, not finance capital. If you have the former, and with a proven product and technology with a long history, no less, the latter will follow.   If that isnt true, then all of american capitalism is in trouble.

(yea, i know its in trouble but that had to do with the housing bubble, not the fundamentals of the capitalist system which is what i'm talking about, and whcih has been remarkably resilient as a system for two centuries, outlasting all other economic systems, so dont tell me the basic principles of capitalism are bad - i'm talking about the most basic concepts here: good product and imaginative marketing = finance capital follows).  Its in this fundamental economic concept that unicomp failed -- they had a good product and they couldnt find a way to market and diversify it - thats a management failure, not a failure of the product itself.

[wellington1869]

lol, lamenting unicomp is one of my fav pastimes

[itlnstln]

lol, lamenting unicomp is one of my fav pastimes

Says the curator of the Model M Museum.

[bigpook]

Someone should contact Jim Owens and have him post the real skinny here on geekhack.
I  would like to hear what unicomp actually has to say on the subject.

[o2dazone]

Says the curator of the Model M Museum.

haha

[wellington1869]

Someone should contact Jim Owens and have him post the real skinny here on geekhack.
I  would like to hear what unicomp actually has to say on the subject.

one time on a previous unicomp-lamentation thread, I forwarded the url to it to jim owens, hoping he would take a look and comment.  He basically totally ignored it, lol.

[o2dazone]

He's busy swimming in a pool of NIB M15's

[itlnstln]

He's busy swimming in a pool of NIB M15's

That pool of M15s is his retirement fund.  That would be like hitting the lottery.

[itlnstln]

Someone should contact Jim Owens and have him post the real skinny here on geekhack.
I would like to hear what unicomp actually has to say on the subject.

This would be great.  We do a lot of Unicomp-bashing around here, but we never get to hear their side of the story.  I am very much interested in understanding the issues they deal with and what they are trying to achieve as a company.

[wellington1869]

 I am very much interested in understanding the issues they deal with and what they are trying to achieve as a company.

I'd give my left arm to have someone from unicomp articulate this. I often wonder if anyone in the company has even thought about it in a systematic way.

[itlnstln]

Das, but that only supports a couple of people

I agree with everything you said, but this stands out.  With the exception of manufacturing their own products, doesn't this describe Unicomp?  At least Das puts out a new (Costar-made) model every year or so generating repeat buys.  Unicomp doesn't even do this.  They have pretty much sold their same offerings for years.  They may not want or need to be a keyboard giant, but I would think they would want to do something in the name of self-preservation.

[bigpook]

I think the guys at unicomp are either retired or getting close to it. They are still in business so they must be making enough to at least be making payroll. I am thinking there is not a whole lot left over to do anything else.

[wellington1869]

At least Das puts out a new (Costar-made) model every year or so generating repeat buys.  Unicomp doesn't even do this.  They have pretty much sold their same offerings for years.  They may not want or need to be a keyboard giant, but I would think they would want to do something in the name of self-preservation.

qft

I'd also add DSI and Matias to the names of specialty board makers who seem to be doing more than surviving. Also kinesis. Small niche markets but apparently profitable enough to continue to innovate each year.

[wellington1869]

Das doesn't have to invest in machines. They don't make stuff. They can dump one manufacturer for the other. In fact, they seem to do that every Das version. Unicomp cannot do that. Still, the best example for your argument would be the HHKB, which is a Topre production sold by PFU, and very successful for a quality keyboard. Asian market though.

true. So what this should tell unicomp is:

1) make an effort to address the global market;

2) see if can outsource at least some parts of manufacturing to taiwan (it cant be entirely impossible; after all wasnt there a chinese rip off buckling board that appeared on gh forums a while back? if they can make a cheap ripoff then it isnt outside the realm of possiblity that someone over there can make a decent one and address the local asian market while they're at it).

3) innovate, for the love of the gods, innovate. bring out new models or freshen old ones atleast once every 18 to 24 months.  Innovate in style and looks; innovate with the core BS technology (sound, materials, tension, size, etc); innovate with layout and features.

And presto - a fighting chance at surviving profitably in a global niche market - rather than limp along pathetically and perpetually on the verge of bankruptcy with a model line that is 20 years too old.

[itlnstln]

3) innovate, for the love of the gods, innovate. bring out new models or freshen old ones atleast once every 18 to 24 months.

Really, they could just use the Spacesaver or Customizer guts and throw a new case around it.  That's all Costar really does; even less, in some cases.  Hell, ABS, Filco, Phaethon and others basically sell the same 'board with minor tweaks.  One of the only things that sets one keyboard off from another is the case, anyway.  It's not like they really have to retool much, just the way the case looks.  They already have the guts perfected.

[wellington1869]

Really, they could just use the Spacesaver or Customizer guts and throw a new case around it.  That's all Costar really does; even less, in some cases.  Hell, ABS, Filco, Phaethon and others basically sell the same 'board with minor tweaks.  One of the only things that sets one keyboard off from another is the case, anyway.  It's not like they really have to retool much, just the way the case looks.  They already have the guts perfected.

they could do a gazillion things with the basic technology as it is. Why not a unicomp version of the M15? And the space saver? And separate BS numpad? And how hard would it be for FD&C "glossy black" to be poured into the plastic vat?  Even just that would generate excitement and buzz, never mind actual effort at engineering.

Laziness pure and simple, it seems to me. American management at its worst. And such a shame since they have a basic product which definitely has an inherent appeal and an established consumer niche from which to build upon.

[MANISH7]

there will be less people who want BS keyboards as the nerds who remember them and used them grow older. The future of quality switches is light and silent like Cherry Browns and Topres

Very true.

[wellington1869]

If anyone can read japanese, I think the link below points to Topre's 3 months earnings in 2009:
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.topre.co.jp%2Findex.html&sl=ja&tl=en&history_state0=

[itlnstln]

i'd post a pic but you would not want to see it.

10-4.

[wellington1869]

I checked year to year sometime ago and they looked very good. Especially in the midst of a worldwide recession.

it just tells me this is mainly a management and imagination failure at unicomp.

(guess i'm not done whipping them yet

[itlnstln]

it just tells me this is mainly a management and imagination failure at unicomp.
 
(guess i'm not done whipping them yet

Topre is into many more endeavors than just keyboards, though.  If I remember correctly, they produce a wide variety of commercial machinery.

[wellington1869]

Topre is into many more endeavors than just keyboards, though.  If I remember correctly, they produce a wide variety of commercial machinery.

can anyone read the annual report and see how much the keyboard division made? Its probably in japanese tho...

[wellington1869]

We're not letting you anywhere near the "Praise of Unicomp" thread.  

No LINKY for you!!

lol. no critique sandwich for unicomp.

[chimera15]

How hard is it to chop the numpad off an already existing product for tooling, and make a board that already is tried and true in the market. I could see maybe if they went the extra step and made it a full compact, that might actually take some original design, but they're producing the fulls, and I heard even the version with the trackball?  It seems really dumb not to produce the mini that everyone really wants.

I was really pissed at them for a long time for not remaking it.  But even now, if they came out with it, I think I'd pass since I'm pretty happy with modifying siig minitouch's.  Getting another one I'm going to put real complicated switches in.  It'll way beat any buckling spring mini.

[Hak Foo]

I think ripster hit it on the head. The cost of the machines to create these boards is probably astronomical. Even if Unicomp WANTED to produce model m mini's they probably could not get the financing to do it.

To me, the big question is "what can they no longer make?" and "can it be replaced?"

If it's a case mould, they could probably order a truckload of cases from Costar or a similar firm instead of making it in-house.

[bigpook]

160 for a NIB mini is lower then I thought it would go for. Maybe the hysteria is dying down and prices are going back to normal.

[ch_123]

For the love of god.. Unicomp should not try to design anything.

Here's my argument:

Show Image

So in fact they managed to turn the Classic, timeless look of an M into something ugly.

That wasn't their design...