Author Topic: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one  (Read 12365 times)

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Offline vbrenny

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Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« on: Thu, 11 October 2012, 15:00:25 »
After I used a friend's vertical mouse, I thought 'I need one of those'.
It was the most pleasant, comfortable experience I've ever had with a mouse.
I don't even remember the model, just that it was a Logitech.
But when I was looking for it, I found out it was **crazy** expensive.

2 years ago, on a supermarket clearance, I found this copy:










Paid like 15BRL (or 7USD), well worth it.
But this guy now is starting to show the effects of its hard work.

Can you guys indicate me some substitutes?
Needs to be under 40USD including shipping and obviously ship to Brazil.

Personal experiences are welcome.
Even if they point out I'm nuts and should get different gear.

Edit: corrected the pics URL
« Last Edit: Fri, 12 October 2012, 11:03:22 by vbrenny »
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 11 October 2012, 20:24:48 »
What the heck?

I never even knew these existed. It seems like something that would be very hard to manipulate with the hand and wrist rotated 90 degrees.

The "wax on / wax off" motion of flat mousing seems a lot more natural and effortless.

I used a trackball for a couple of years, a long time ago, but gave it up.

Since I don't game, it doesn't matter to me, but do people game with these?
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline vbrenny

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 11 October 2012, 20:34:05 »
What the heck?

I never even knew these existed. It seems like something that would be very hard to manipulate with the hand and wrist rotated 90 degrees.

The "wax on / wax off" motion of flat mousing seems a lot more natural and effortless.

I used a trackball for a couple of years, a long time ago, but gave it up.

Since I don't game, it doesn't matter to me, but do people game with these?


Do you know when people ask why you have such an expensive and 'simple' keyboard up until they test it?

Rest your hand on the table. I doubt it naturally happens to rest with the palm down; hand's natural resting position is with the side touching the surface.
And that's why this mouse is so awesome: you are, all the time, using it in a natural resting position.
You can have move/clicking intensive tasks all day long, and you still end the workday without that feeling of having used the mouse too much.

And I don't game with it; actually, I don't do PC gaming at all. It is not really quick (although has an incredible precision) so I don't think this could be a good use for it.

Well, I really hope somebody out there might know a similar mouse that fits my needs. Otherwise, I'll have to go back to the old days :(
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 12 October 2012, 07:36:27 »
I would certainly be willing to try it, but for me palm-down is the natural way that my hands rest. And moving back and forth off the keyboard reinforces that.

Somehow, it seems like the vertical forearm would require more involvement of upper arm and shoulder.

Your point about precision is easy to understand,however, and that would be a thing that might get me hooked.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline jeroplane

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 12 October 2012, 07:46:12 »
Oh cool, I hadn't seen a vertical mouse before. On a few days when I've been on the computer a long time and my wrists are starting to hurt, I've found myself placing my hand on top of the mouse in that position to move it more comfortably. I can definitely see this being better for the wrists; akin to ergonomic keyboards that slope outwards.

My signature hasn't changed since 2012. I should really update it.

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 12 October 2012, 07:51:24 »
Can't see your pictures but if that is an evoluent vertical mouse, I agree that they are absolutely awesome.  They gave it to me at work to easy my wrist pain.  Best thing ever.  I still use an mx518 at home for gaming but I've long wanted to replace it with a VM4

Offline vbrenny

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 12 October 2012, 11:07:49 »
I would certainly be willing to try it, but for me palm-down is the natural way that my hands rest. And moving back and forth off the keyboard reinforces that.

Somehow, it seems like the vertical forearm would require more involvement of upper arm and shoulder.

Your point about precision is easy to understand,however, and that would be a thing that might get me hooked.

Kinda weird, specially because the natural position of your hands resting, when you're up, is parallel to the bodyline. So, just moving them up creates the resting position for a surface. Anyway, I do respect the differences :)

Oh cool, I hadn't seen a vertical mouse before. On a few days when I've been on the computer a long time and my wrists are starting to hurt, I've found myself placing my hand on top of the mouse in that position to move it more comfortably. I can definitely see this being better for the wrists; akin to ergonomic keyboards that slope outwards.

I did not feel pain before I started using it, it just felt right; after I started to use it and went back to another mouse, I felt the difference.

Can't see your pictures but if that is an evoluent vertical mouse, I agree that they are absolutely awesome.  They gave it to me at work to easy my wrist pain.  Best thing ever.  I still use an mx518 at home for gaming but I've long wanted to replace it with a VM4

It's not an Evoluent, its brand is 'Goldship'. As I told you, I bought it off a clearance sale.

Also, I corrected the pic links, looks like imgbay did not like my pics.
Seems like everybody around uses imgur, any reasons for that?
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 12 October 2012, 11:11:15 »
My curiosity got the best of me, of course.

I ordered one of these things from Hong Kong. I just have to know ......

Really would prefer a left-handed one, but those are all name brands and crazy expensive.

"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline vbrenny

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 12 October 2012, 11:26:28 »
My curiosity got the best of me, of course.

I ordered one of these things from Hong Kong. I just have to know ......

Really would prefer a left-handed one, but those are all name brands and crazy expensive.



Haha, good luck! Hope you enjoy it, and if you just feel like the mouse is too cheap, I can maybe ship you a new one just like mine. Gotta do some research to find it, though.

About the price: I've searched for the VM4.. and it is priced around 90USD. Way over my price limit :(
Owns: Cherry G80-8113 w/ browns.
I'm looking for somebody to proxy a QFR for me. I'll pay. PM me!

Offline mikelanding

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 12 October 2012, 11:53:25 »
Hmm..A ebay search on "Vertical mouse" yield some many interesting result: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=vertical+mouse&_sacat=0&_from=R40

I am using Logitech Trackball moust (M570) and Kensington Slimblade trackball. Result is still not that good for my RSI. I willing to give this a try. :)
HHKB Type-S | Kinesis Advantage | Maltron 3D 2Hand | Ergodox (62g ErgoClear)

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 12 October 2012, 12:04:51 »
I got this one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vertical-Mouse-ABS-USB-2-0-800-DPI-Wired-Optical-PC-Mouse-for-Laptop-Notebook-/271049386621?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160

There were others that showed this picture in the main listing, but on the item itself the mouse was different.

I want a non-slip section for my front fingers, the others looked too slick.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 12 October 2012, 16:21:00 »
The other day, I saw a Evolution mouse for sale. It looked a lot like the one in the first post.

Not a true Evoluent, mind you. I've owned one and used one at my last workplace, so I can spot the difference.

I got this one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vertical-Mouse-ABS-USB-2-0-800-DPI-Wired-Optical-PC-Mouse-for-Laptop-Notebook-/271049386621?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:3160
The mouse in the picture looks precisely like my WowPen Joy, just without the logos.

Edit: Added URL to Evolution mouse.
« Last Edit: Tue, 16 October 2012, 14:20:12 by Findecanor »

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 25 October 2012, 20:55:04 »
OK, so I got my vertical mouse today.

This is something that I could really get into. I am very impressed with the concept, however, the ergonomics are all wrong for me.

Apparently, this is some sort of Chinese knock-off of the Joy mouse, and it must have been made for someone with much smaller hands than me. If I just flop my hand onto it naturally, my index finger fits perfectly onto the slick non-functioning top section, and my 2nd and 3rd fingers fall on the switches (this puts the wheel between my 2nd and 3rd fingers, and the only natural-feeling way to use it is to drop my 2nd finger down onto it) with my pinky dragging on the ground. My fingers are also too long and the fingertips hang off the end by a full cm and I am working with the second joints of my fingers, not my fingertips.

Maybe it would work better with a claw grip, but I could never do that.

So, while I would love for everything to move upwards by the width of one finger, with the dead zone at the bottom instead of the top, it may not be too hard to learn to use these other fingers after all.

This is intriguing and I may give it a week or more and see what it feels like.

Now where can I find a bigger, taller, left-handed one for less than $60?
« Last Edit: Fri, 26 October 2012, 06:50:54 by fohat.digs »
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 29 October 2012, 10:31:18 »
Now, I have been using this mouse for several days. I am liking it better, but it has taken a while to find a comfortable way to hold it.

At first, I tried to put my hand "onto" the mouse such that my hand was "off the ground" altogether. This made for a very awkward situation using the "wrong" fingers.

After considerable experimentation, I am now placing my first and second fingers where I want them on the "left" (top) and "right" (bottom) buttons. It is about equal which finger rolls the wheel, but I think I am leaning toward the second finger (I use my index finger on the conventional mouse).

This position moves the mouse well "out" from the palm of my hand, lets the thumb ride very low, and the last 2 fingers are "dragging on the ground" with the third finger usually resting against the bottom edge of the mouse.

The 2 fingers off the mouse is a little hard to get used to, but their friction on the flat ground surface does add to the accuracy of small movements. I am not sure what the settings are, I did not change them after the mouse installed itself, but it feels like far less movement is required than a conventional mouse.

Would anybody else be willing to weigh in on this? Thanks!
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline pli

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 12 November 2012, 16:36:36 »
I've tried a few of these. The Evoluent Vertical Mouse is the one that is most readily available over here, but it just does not fit my hand too well. I've tried both the regular and the small one. In addition to not quite getting a good grip on it, it feels a bit... awkwardly vertical for me.

The best vertical mouse in terms of posture and grip that I've tried is the WowPen Joy. It's some Korean product that felt perfect in my grip the second I laid my hand on it. Sadly, in reality it's a cheap wireless low-dpi mouse that's unusable since I've got a desktop surface of 4000x2560. If they'd make a model with a proper dpi figure I'd get one instantly.

So my answer is: ended up not getting one even though the idea seemed promising at first.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 12 November 2012, 16:58:20 »
After a few weeks I am really liking this mouse. It is a Chinese knock-off of the USB Joy, $13 brand-new, delivered!

I don't game and so accuracy is important while speed is not.

And I have come to appreciate having 2 fingers on the mouse and the other 2 dragging.

Now I really really want a left-hand one.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline orenbeck

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 16 December 2012, 23:01:24 »
Looks to me like time for meeting the local Hacker/Maker folks and 3D printing a shell for some suitable mouse undercarriage.

It's not a trivial Hack at first glance or is it?

We already have folks injection molding half cases so this may be a worthy moldmate.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 16:26:39 »
I suppose that the market is small, or somebody else would be doing it.

I switched to left-hand mousing a year or 2 ago, and love it.

The Joy mouse is great, and it has led me to keep mice on both sides now, which is also excellent, but I still want a left-hand Joy-style vertical mouse.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline islisis

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 03 June 2013, 01:21:53 »
because evoluent refuse any request for a small wireless VM, and DXT won't consider adding extra buttons to their molding, i was browsing the latest vertical mice offerings.

This Cosy looks pretty good, also sold as Anker. If only it had a ring finger button ><

The switches will need replacing, but has anyone compared this to the evoluent performance, in particular angle position and thumb relief?

« Last Edit: Mon, 03 June 2013, 09:27:28 by islisis »

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 03 June 2013, 07:35:09 »
because evoluent refuse any request for a small wireless VM, and DXT won't consider adding extra buttons to their molding, i was browsing the latest vertical mice offerings.

This Cosy looks pretty good, also sold as http://www.amazon.com/Anker-Wireless-Vertical-Ergonomic-Optical/dp/B00BIFNTMC. If only it had a ring finger button ><

The switches will need replacing, but has anyone compared this to the evoluent performance, in particular angle position and thumb relief?



This looks a lot like the Joy Pen, position-wise. The thumb buttons at the top will make them harder to hit accidentally, a good thing.

I don't like its looks, personally, and it looks bulkier and more awkward than the Joy, but pretty similar.

Anything is better than the horrible Evoluent.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline islisis

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 03 June 2013, 09:24:38 »
a wowpen with higher placed finger buttons, and hopefully better build quality. looks ok for a successor. i always ending up shifting through grip positions, since placing the middle finger on right click seemed better height wise as you describe above, and gave far less thumb stress. the thumb well still looks a bit wide in the photo.
an extra finger button and it would be a great gaming mouse i think

Anything is better than the horrible Evoluent.
i know, but to me true vertical is better, they just need deeper thumb indenting and a low force switch option
« Last Edit: Mon, 03 June 2013, 09:59:58 by islisis »

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 03 June 2013, 10:22:28 »

i know, but to me true vertical is better, they just need deeper thumb indenting and a low force switch option



I just can't see it.

A true vertical position forces you to resist the finger press with an equal and opposite horizontal pinching action of the thumb.

Instead of a light tap with one finger, the whole hand has to be involved in a clamshell-like operation with every press, or the thumb has to remain permanently tensed.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline islisis

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 03 June 2013, 12:01:57 »
that is why a low force switch on a vertical mouse is actually equivalent to higher force on a horizontal mouse as you use double the muscle strength, but there is the argument it requires more skill and awareness to operate that way
well, better to train your users than to injure them, i would say
it's a good reason why the buttons should face more in towards the palm, 'trigger style', rather than opposite the thumb

thumb indenting is also its own issue, as the thumb can be stressed in odd positions on a mouse oriented any angle

i have some hope manufacturers will stop denying pinch force problems in the future. 3d printing will also be promising, but unfortunately even the community consciousness to collaborate on a design might not be there yet

i've found the best solution is probably to map dual role keys to mouse functions when using the computer with two hands anyhow. also it's important to have multiple ways of doing things, including the option of several mice
« Last Edit: Mon, 03 June 2013, 18:46:01 by islisis »

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 03 June 2013, 13:34:25 »
2 mice is my standard now.

I switched over to left-hand mousing a year or 2 ago and love it. When I got the Joy mouse I was very happy, especially after I replaced the primary button switches with lighter Omrons, but it is only right-hand.

A left-hand Joy Pen is at the top of my wish list, but apparently they are not made, so I am using an old conventional Microsoft Optical Mouse.

My Evoluent was left-hand, but I am sure that I would hate it either way. The way my hand drapes around the Joy seems perfect.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline SmallFry

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 03 June 2013, 13:44:14 »
Wait, you use two mice at once or just have one on either side? I'm interested to figure out how you do this.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 03 June 2013, 14:11:53 »
I have mice on both sides of the computer. They are both hot all the time and can be used interchangeably or together.

Whichever hand is more convenient is available, and simultaneous use can give extra precision sometimes.

And, being right-handed, I can be writing or using the phone or numpad with my right hand and still have a mouse easily available.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline fateswarm

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:33:12 »
I suspect you have to learn to claw your mouse if you think that's comfortable and regular mice not ergonomic.

I think clawing a mouse is the equivalent of hovering for touch typing. There are many "methods" but most are wrong. A lot of people rest their wrist but it's always wrong when in actual use.

In mice the equivalent is also resting your palm.
« Last Edit: Mon, 03 June 2013, 15:38:57 by fateswarm »

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #27 on: Mon, 03 June 2013, 16:53:06 »
I am a total palm grip.

I don't think I could ever learn the claw grip, even if I wanted to.

The Wow Pen has a "shoulder" that fits me perfectly at the top of palm/base of fingers.
"The Trump campaign announced in a letter that Republican candidates and committees are now expected to pay “a minimum of 5% of all fundraising solicitations to Trump National Committee JFC” for using his “name, image, and likeness in fundraising solicitations.”
“Any split that is higher than 5%,” the letter states, “will be seen favorably by the RNC and President Trump's campaign and is routinely reported to the highest levels of leadership within both organizations.”"

Offline islisis

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 03 June 2013, 18:57:34 »
(system double post)
« Last Edit: Mon, 03 June 2013, 19:29:10 by islisis »

Offline islisis

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 03 June 2013, 19:27:07 »
i use the keyboard to do this mostly, but clicking with left hand on a second mouse allows your right hand to be 'zero tension'  :) the shape of the mouse itself can still lead to thumb stress however... :/
i also have an small extra mouse on the right to alternate with

I suspect you have to learn to claw your mouse if you think that's comfortable and regular mice not ergonomic.

the shape of both the wowpen and cosy is totally finger/claw grippable, and great for gaming (not for wowpen's laggy sensor)

the dxt is like the definition of a fingertip grip mouse

it is though the exception, and because most ergo mice tailor their button activation points for palm usage desktop work does become tiring to claw

Quote
In mice the equivalent is also resting your palm.

this is circumvented in a true vertical position
« Last Edit: Sun, 09 March 2014, 20:09:48 by islisis »

Offline fateswarm

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #30 on: Tue, 04 June 2013, 01:26:50 »
I am a total palm grip.

I don't think I could ever learn the claw grip, even if I wanted to.

The Wow Pen has a "shoulder" that fits me perfectly at the top of palm/base of fingers.
Well exceptional cases of tall backs that reach the palm in any case are excluded, but for most common mice, I find clawing to be so beneficial that it has to be exceptionally pronounced and in those cases, unless the hand it too small, it will be still clawing.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 04 June 2013, 06:54:47 »
I am a total palm grip.

I don't think I could ever learn the claw grip, even if I wanted to.

The Wow Pen has a "shoulder" that fits me perfectly at the top of palm/base of fingers.
Well exceptional cases of tall backs that reach the palm in any case are excluded, but for most common mice, I find clawing to be so beneficial that it has to be exceptionally pronounced and in those cases, unless the hand it too small, it will be still clawing.

The older I get, the more uncomfortable it is to close my hand. Curling the fingers unnecessarily gets tiring and uncomfortable very quickly.

I like mice that allow me to drape my hands across them in the most relaxed and open position possible.
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Offline islisis

  • Posts: 120
  • Location: Tokyo, Japan
Re: Vertical Mouse: Looking for a new one
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 19 February 2014, 08:38:15 »
just thought i'd update that evoluent did release a wireless small mouse (VM4SW), and i bought one off ebay.

pros:

compared to my VM3W, the thumb well is indeed more aggressive, and combined with smaller size quite inducive to fingertip/claw gripping.

i find that a wrist rest to elevate the hand and thumb is helping since the top part of the thumbwell has been the most reduced (while the bottom inexplicable widened), and a low-friction mousepad is also useful here. single cell battery bay makes it much lighter (especially with an aaa->aa adapter, still plenty of runtime).

the thumb buttons are useful as dual role buttons for left and right click, dragging and a plethora of rocker/chord combinations, though i wish they were larger and more accessible.


cons:

in windows it requires the manufacturer drivers which have issues with separately registering down/up clicks as well as window focusing for xbutton1, 2 and keyboard maps [edit: down/up registering fixed in V5.5, but window focusing issue remains].

the shiny thumbwell is too slippery when gaming but can be alleviated by pressing on a small sheet of silicon.

in this version the sensor is closer to the center point of the mouse compared to the forward point of the VM3W. i'm beginning to think placing it even further to the rear would allow fingertip grip users like me to swivel the mouse for horizontal tracking and reduce wrist strain. no matter what mouse i have have used though, i find if you are unwilling to palm grip and use the whole arm to move the mouse then switching hands/input devices is the only way to relieve fatigue, unless you are willing to be creative with button and keyboard mapping


my current recommendations for updating this line of mice are:

- lightest possible switch force. the omrons are nice and standard but it goes without saying that if you are going to rely on 'pinch grip' for the bulk of your button activations you are doubling the required muscle strength. compared to horizontal mice you can halve the button force without inducing accidental activations.

- two changes to the finger buttons: angle it further in towards the palm to allow easier activation against the palm and not thumb. imagine a truly relaxed hand where fingers naturally curl in, and mold within that. buttons presses should feel more like 'triggers'. this would avoid extension of the fingers where the muscles are at their weakest. also, apply a scoop design similar to the ring/little finger button, hinged at the top (towards the ceiling) or diagonally instead of the side, so that the user has the option to press downwards (towards the mat) to activate them as an alternative to inward trigger-style clicking mentioned above. these options would allieviate a lot of pinch stress on the thumb, especially during click and dragging.

- more aggressive thumbwell, allow the thumb to sit lower and closer to the fingers. again, allow for the natural curl of the thumb when relaxed - the thumb should slide into an indent which would allow movement of the mouse by thumb contact alone. this way the thumb could prevent the mouse from moving backwards during inward trigger-style finger clicking without the need for contact with the base of the palm. thumb buttons should be closer to the central position, consider the bottom button as a good alternative primary click since it can be activated by pressing downwards too. there could be room in the front of the mouse for a third thumb button also.

- make it as light as possible to reduce movement force


also tried a wireless anker clone also very good for claw gripping, nice texture and light weight but i returned it after having some problems with the scroll wheel. of course it was also 45-degree angle with less buttons. so at least the VM4SW came as an unexpected surprise after this =)
« Last Edit: Thu, 25 December 2014, 21:41:13 by islisis »