Logitech G710+ first impressions

[VoDivineDark]

So... There I was. Standing in the middle of my local electronics store with the urge to buy something to play with for the week. I've read all about this keyboard and written it off as another possibly iOne POS. My day to day keyboard is a Das Silent or a Ducky DK9008G2 Pro with reds, but I have a considerable mechanical keyboard collection.

At first, I though I'd pick up a keyboard with blues and a number pad. Please note that this really was a "money burning a hole in my pocket" situation... Just saying before I'm judged here. I thought I'd give the 2013 Blackwidow a shot. I hoped that they'd stepped up their game and that my previous bad experiences with the Blackwidow would be wiped away in a moment of typing joy... This did not happen... I took it back and my last choice for a mech keyboard that I don't own was this. I figured that I would at least give it a go. I could always return it, and in the end it couldn't be worse than the Razer.

Color me surprised. This is actually a solid piece of equipment. Great weight, the keys are responsive and have o-rings on them, so it is actually quite quiet, and it's not nearly as big as I'd thought it would be from the pictures. I don't really use backlighting, so I've been keeping it off for the majority of my time with the keyboard, but it is BRIGHT!!! Unfortunately, I've heard that it's the biggest failing of this board. The backlighting supposedly fails within a couple of days/weeks. I'll give it a solid test and see if my luck is any better.

The orange accents don't really do it for me, but it doesn't really bother me as much as it seems to bother some. As opposed to the Blackwidow and the Quickfire Trigger, the macro keys are separated a bit more from the rest of the keys, so when doing my injects in SC2 I haven't accidentally pushed one. Big bonus there.

Anyways, the 710+ thread kinda died off here, so I thought I'd chime in with my thoughts for those that come here looking for information. In conclusion (for a short time with the board) I really like the board. My last mx brown board was the Zowie Celeritas and it's weird layout and shabby keycaps really turned me off. This board is comfortable, sturdy, quiet, and most importantly functional. If things change or anyone has any questions, I'll follow up, but outside of that. I'm really impressed with the board.

Cheers!

[davkol]

Welcome to GH.

I guess I'm not the only one who would be interested in pictures of this keyboard naked...?

[VoDivineDark]

Thank you for the welcome. Long time lurker, here.

[Hyde]

The quality is good?  That's good to know.  Initially people was worrying that this will be an iOne board.

But I suspect this is probably made at the same mysterious OEM as CM Storm TK.  So if the quality is good that's a good sign 

Although lately I'm trying to investigate if iOne is really as bad people claimed.  So if you can put some input on the Blackwidow 2013 in this thead: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37861.0 that would be great.

As for opening up the G701+ it's understandable if you don't want to pop open your brand new board, though if you do please post some pictures 

[VoDivineDark]

The quality seems to be great... Obviously it still has some of the same bugaboos of backlit mech keyboards. The keycaps aren't that great, but that can be fixed, and they're not nearly as bad as the caps on the CM Storm Trigger. I just really didn't like those at all, and they had severe light bleed on the bottom row on mine. The o-rings on the switches are really different for me. I've never had a board with them, and I have to say... They're great. I don't get nearly the stare from the wife as I do with some of my other boards. The Celeritas is DAMN loud. I keep expecting my little lady to step up behind me and snap my neck when I'm spamming in Starcraft.

As for iOne. I have a 2011 Blackwidow and a 2012 Blackwidow, as well as a CM Storm Quickfire Pro. There is a certain hollow quality that is really hard to explain. The boards are plenty heavy, but they sound and feel hollow or flimsy. I can set my Quickfire Rapid right next to my Blackwidow and there is a definite feeling of heft or density with the Rapid compared to the BWU and the rapid is a tkl board.

[Hyde]

Ahhh so aside from the build quality, there is a noticeable difference on the construction/feel too eh?

Thanks for the feedback !

[Polymer]

My impressions of the G710+ were that it felt very well made and it was definitely very solid.  The O-rings make a difference but on that board, even without them it would make less noise than other mechanical keyboards.  I almost got the impression they did something besides the o-ring modification.  Overall build quality was definitely good..

EXCEPT

The keys.  They're quite slick out of the box and for whatever reason my finger kept wanting to hit the capslock key..at least for a bit..maybe it was the macro row of keys getting into my mind..sometimes it seemed like my finger was sliding off the A key and hitting it.  It also felt slightly smaller A - ; but maybe it was just they keys...maybe it was the spacing from A to caps lock....but either way, it was a big turn off.  Some of the keys weren't painted perfectly either which meant light was leaking out of them in funny places. 

Given the other choices out there for a full on gaming keyboard with macros, LEDs, etc..it is probably one of the better ones.. Given the choices you have at the same price point though, I'm not sure it is the way to go either. 

[daerid]

Good to hear, although I can't say that I'm surprised. Even though it may have declined over the last couple of years, Logitech quality is still fairly high.

[pitashen]

The Logitech mech board discussion died off for a reason lol, but thank you for sharing.

[VoDivineDark]

Just a quick update. After a few days segments of the backlighting started flickering and then died. I have since returned the board to add a cm storm trigger to the collection.

[FoxWolf1]

Seems like a very significant portion of buyers are experiencing backlight death...

[Hyde]

Let see if this happens to CM Storm TK also, I suspect the two are made in the same place due to something Carter hinted at.

[VoDivineDark]

Yeah. It was very sad... I was liking the board for the time it worked. But life is too short to mess with poorly built mechanical keyboards. haha!

[nar]

Someone needs to open one up and take some pictures of the PCB. Maybe we can figure out the OEM then, thought it doesn't seem to be that good if there are lots of backlight failures.

[Polymer]

Think someone already did that..and there weren't any markings that would identify where it was made...

[alaricljs]

Like so?

[laffindude]

Let see if this happens to CM Storm TK also, I suspect the two are made in the same place due to something Carter hinted at.

Confirmed by the helpful Taiwanese CM Rep. TK feels more plasticky and flimsier than the Pro. Pro is plasticky but better built than Razer 2013. New(er?) QFR's case is less flexible in front of the spacebar than my launch batch board.

[awx]

My first (and last) impressions:
* The design is a fail IMHO, especially the WASD keys - they even feel different from the other keys.
* Keys felt much better than on the iOne I had tried before, not exactly sure why (both had MX-browns). The O-rings are nice and I actually prefer the Cherry stabilizers in the Logitech. Build quality seemed good (not saying anything about the backlighting).
* Doesn't work correctly on Linux as of yet, beware!

[wetto]

Let see if this happens to CM Storm TK also, I suspect the two are made in the same place due to something Carter hinted at.

Confirmed by the helpful Taiwanese CM Rep. TK feels more plasticky and flimsier than the Pro. Pro is plasticky but better built than Razer 2013. New(er?) QFR's case is less flexible in front of the spacebar than my launch batch board.

Maybe it has to do with it being about half the weight. I mean, it's not normal for an almost fullsize mechanical keyboard to weight only 540 grams, when it's not even PCB mounted... 

[FoxWolf1]

Let see if this happens to CM Storm TK also, I suspect the two are made in the same place due to something Carter hinted at.

Confirmed by the helpful Taiwanese CM Rep. TK feels more plasticky and flimsier than the Pro. Pro is plasticky but better built than Razer 2013. New(er?) QFR's case is less flexible in front of the spacebar than my launch batch board.

Maybe it has to do with it being about half the weight. I mean, it's not normal for an almost fullsize mechanical keyboard to weight only 540 grams, when it's not even PCB mounted... 

I read somewhere that that weight figure was an error, and that the true weight had been measured by a reviewer as 940g...which still isn't super-solid, but not as terrible.

[VoDivineDark]

It definitely felt like it had some weight to it. Not light at all. Again, it didn't feel flimsy. The lighting just seemed to be questionable. I hope they sort it out in the future and put out a board that's worthy of the Logitech name. I still have mad respect for their mice, but this board was an honest disappointment.

[wetto]

It definitely felt like it had some weight to it. Not light at all. Again, it didn't feel flimsy. The lighting just seemed to be questionable. I hope they sort it out in the future and put out a board that's worthy of the Logitech name. I still have mad respect for their mice, but this board was an honest disappointment.

They're newcomers into the Mechanical market. Yes, they're indeed dumb for taking soo long to get into it, but maybe the G910+ (if it does gets released) will be better.

But now, will they put an LCD screen just to give in to what gamers think they need? Damn, that'd be ridiculous 

[gameaholic]

Does anyone know what spec o-rings they use?  I didn't really like thin 40a but I do like thick 70a. 

[wetto]

This is a picture of it:



I don't know, 50 A-R?

[gameaholic]

Might not be.  My 70a are also black.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FMYR48/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00

[Polymer]

My first (and last) impressions:
* The design is a fail IMHO, especially the WASD keys - they even feel different from the other keys.
* Keys felt much better than on the iOne I had tried before, not exactly sure why (both had MX-browns). The O-rings are nice and I actually prefer the Cherry stabilizers in the Logitech. Build quality seemed good (not saying anything about the backlighting).
* Doesn't work correctly on Linux as of yet, beware!

I agree...the WASD keys feel slightly different and that is bothersome...it doesn't help that the keys are all slightly slick.

They have done a good job with the o-rings and the build overall is solid so the keyboard is actually fairly quiet compared to most....

It really isn't that bad of a keyboard...if the keycaps don't bother you then really the only thing "bad" about the keyboard seems to be the LEDs are failing (which is pretty bad).

[rootwyrm]

It definitely felt like it had some weight to it. Not light at all. Again, it didn't feel flimsy. The lighting just seemed to be questionable. I hope they sort it out in the future and put out a board that's worthy of the Logitech name. I still have mad respect for their mice, but this board was an honest disappointment.

They're newcomers into the Mechanical market. Yes, they're indeed dumb for taking soo long to get into it, but maybe the G910+ (if it does gets released) will be better.

But now, will they put an LCD screen just to give in to what gamers think they need? Damn, that'd be ridiculous 

You mean possibly like this?

[wetto]

It definitely felt like it had some weight to it. Not light at all. Again, it didn't feel flimsy. The lighting just seemed to be questionable. I hope they sort it out in the future and put out a board that's worthy of the Logitech name. I still have mad respect for their mice, but this board was an honest disappointment.

They're newcomers into the Mechanical market. Yes, they're indeed dumb for taking soo long to get into it, but maybe the G910+ (if it does gets released) will be better.

But now, will they put an LCD screen just to give in to what gamers think they need? Damn, that'd be ridiculous 

You mean possibly like this?

Yeah, but just imagine, a mechanical keyboard with an LCD Screen...  )

[FoxWolf1]

I don't see why it'd be any more ridiculous than putting a small screen in a non-mechanical keyboard...

Anyway, people have been putting small screens in keyboards, even mechanicals, since long before Logitech thought it'd be a nice "gamer" feature...and usually for reasons that have nothing to do with gaming.

[rootwyrm]

Yeah, but just imagine, a mechanical keyboard with an LCD Screen...  )

Here's the thing though:
I actually like the LCD as implemented on the G13. And as implemented on the G19. Trash talk it all you like, but provided I can make it show what I want instead of 'ammo, health, blah blah' it actually can be a useful feature for some folks. I don't want to have to switch over to my MUA or minimize a window to see that somebody just sent me an email saying 'ok got it.' I don't want to fire up another 4GB VM if I've only got 2GB free. You get the idea. There used to be a few keyboards that added LED indicators for 'new mail' - sadly, low quality junk but still. Visual indicators are not inherently 'gamer' things or bad.

So if they actually built a mechanical keyboard of good quality with that kind of LCD display, I would probably consider buying it. But I would also agree with others that the G710+ is very low quality based on the backlighting failures. Logitech's quality has really gotten terrible across the board.

[davkol]

The question is: why should we have LCD built in keyboard? Why not separate (cheaper, replaceable,...) one?

[rootwyrm]

The question is: why should we have LCD built in keyboard? Why not separate (cheaper, replaceable,...) one?

The short answer is: cost. A Logitech G15 was what, $120 new? $150? A standalone 20x4 external LCD from Matrix Orbital is $93 and a 7" non-touch screen USB display costs $100. So, simply put, the economies of scale are why you would make it part of the keyboard. I won't disagree, a more easily removable and repairable method (like a sliding rail mount with a cable) would be nice, but that also costs more to produce.

[davkol]

It costs less only because Logitech makes it (and actually creates demand¹). If they made a small separate LCD, it wouldn't cost much.

¹ majority probably buy it because it's cool, not because they want to use it for anything meaningful

[FoxWolf1]

Takes up less space and keeps things neater when things are combined.

Plus, some functions are greatly streamlined by combining the screen with an existing input device. For example, there are a few beige-era mechanicals around with a small display so that you can use the numberpad as a calculator. The calculator functions on the keyboard itself, but you can send the current number directly to the attached PC with the press of a button. The send function and the space saving from re-using the number pad makes this system better than using a stand-alone calculator, while at the same time, you don't have to switch windows to call up a calculator program or install special software to replicate the functionality with a generic display. So for that purpose, there is an advantage to having the screen in the keyboard.

[Polymer]

It costs less only because Logitech makes it (and actually creates demand¹). If they made a small separate LCD, it wouldn't cost much.

¹ majority probably buy it because it's cool, not because they want to use it for anything meaningful

Possibly..but with Gamer Keyboards, people want them packed with features....Some people might actually find it useful, some might not..but there is no doubt that extra features are what that market segment is looking for.

You have people buying gamer keyboards with macro keys even though they don't use them...They like the extra "stuff"..they like the LEDs, etc..they like that they look more futuristic...

Personally if I was playing games that benefited from Macros or having an extra little display..I'd probably consider them as well...

[davkol]

That's the same duplicating functionality as with a pooy soundcard integrated into the keyboard. I have TI-89 and a Python shell at hand for a reason.

[Polymer]

And yet for many, this extra feature costs basically nothing and does exactly what they want...

Are you really saying you can't see how some people might like having this?  Especially the crowd that wants everything and the kitchen sink built into their keyboard?

[rootwyrm]

And yet for many, this extra feature costs basically nothing and does exactly what they want...

Are you really saying you can't see how some people might like having this?  Especially the crowd that wants everything and the kitchen sink built into their keyboard?

Hells, I liked the fact that Logitech put a USB-Analog sound IC in some of the keyboards. Why?
First, the Costar CST104 is an utterly worthless design - I mean really, 1/8" non-isolated pass-through with poor grounding? Seriously? What is this, 1994? Completely moronic and useless. If you have speakers, you do have to connect them to your keyboard. Rendering the whole point of it - well, pointless. I still don't get why any OEM included that. It's an added cost with zero benefit, since your choices are: don't use it, run all output through it limiting you to stereo speakers or headset with added noise, route all your keyboard cables to the front panel so you can plug it into the jacks there when you use it, or put another card in your system just to use it because it can't bring up the line-out on Realtek enough to be audible.

Which is why the Logitech answer of putting an actual USB-Analog audio device in the keyboard a good idea. You're not going to be using it for listening to music or playing games - you're going to be using it for voice communications. That means the quality doesn't have to be all that great. 24kHz, 80dB SNR, 160Hz-18kHz output range would still be way more than you need for voice. It also means you can dedicate your headset to voice (i.e. Skype, Vent, TeamSpeak, etc) so you don't have to try and pick it out from game sounds or music.

So really, it's not so much kitchen sink as looking for genuinely useful stuff like that - and ending up with someone deciding to throw in the kitchen sink, garbage disposal and refrigerator because half the 'gamers' out there are about shiny object syndrome (HELLO RAZER.) If I could get MX Greens with no backlight, USB-Analog audio (or a non-junk USB hub) with the ports on the side instead of the rear, and PS/2 I'd probably buy four.

[wetto]

One interesting thing to mention, is that the Logitech isn't the only keyboard with an audio-card on it. The Thermaltake Meka G-Unit also has one just as well, though the headphone jack is right behind it.

Though well, most brands are just retarded, putting a USB HUB and/or a Headphones jacks on the right side seems just dumb to me, when the left side won't be a hassle to their mice (unless they use the mouse with their left hand, of course). I just can't use anything on the USB HUB of my Das and use my mouse without having to push them farther from each other (which is damn uncomfortable) .

[Polymer]

Oh I agree...some of these features actually are useful...as much as some people may really dislike them, there are legitimate uses for them...

When I see people complain about there being macro keys or something like that I think..well this is obviously not the keyboard for you...Features that are there that you don't want, that is all just personal preference.

Of course, when reliability isn't good, that is something legitimate to complain about..but that is a different subject...

[davkol]

I can see some of those uses, and I think they're plain wrong. It's the same difference as between Unix and... well, bloatware. Do one thing and do it right. (And I'm not even a fanatic minimalist.)

edit: I wanted to elaborate on this matter, but... maybe later.

[Polymer]

So I can see how this won't go anywhere...Haha....I'm glad there are choices...

[davkol]

If you're in the US/Asia/UK, sure. But where I live, there are only gimmicky gaming keyboards¹. Situation in local market is like if everybody stopped importing laptops, and offered only iPad-like tablets. Hype creates demand, and margins are apparently higher on these products.

[rootwyrm]

One interesting thing to mention, is that the Logitech isn't the only keyboard with an audio-card on it. The Thermaltake Meka G-Unit also has one just as well, though the headphone jack is right behind it.

Does it? The Meka G1 does not - it's the crap passthrough design. And I cannot emphasize the "crap" part nearly enough. Especially since two I tested gave false presence detect on front panel audio. And for some inexplicable reason, appear to ground through the USB hub. (WTF..)

Though well, most brands are just retarded, putting a USB HUB and/or a Headphones jacks on the right side seems just dumb to me, when the left side won't be a hassle to their mice (unless they use the mouse with their left hand, of course). I just can't use anything on the USB HUB of my Das and use my mouse without having to push them farther from each other (which is damn uncomfortable) .

Yeah, this is why I'd tend to favor left. But even right side would work for me, since I have my stuff angled. My bigger problem is that they keep using CRAP USB hubs. The design in the CST-104 is weird beyond description, and probably mostly bugs. It wouldn't use SELSUS reliably, unpredictable and confusing packet loss problems, never liked mass storage devices of any flavor, latency seemed all over the place.. just a miserable experience.
That said, I couldn't put my mouse (and wouldn't anyway) on any keyboard. I have a wireless mouse. The base station is always attached to an independently powered hub so it can charge while the system's off. You know, when I'm not using the system. So it's really more about frequently attached and detached peripherals, like my USB headset and steering wheel setup. I mean really, how often do you disconnect your mouse? Chances are not often, so plugging it into the back of the computer or a hard to access hub is no big deal.

I can see some of those uses, and I think they're plain wrong. It's the same difference as between Unix and... well, bloatware. Do one thing and do it right. (And I'm not even a fanatic minimalist.)

See, you're mixing incompatible metaphors and getting it all wrong, actually. You're confusing Shiny Object Syndrome(TM) with Functional Design. When I add a USB hub to a keyboard this is not Shiny Object Syndrome nor is is kitchen sinking; it's adding Function. It doesn't take anything away from the design, in some cases it simplifies it, and it can add value for more than a small subtype of users. (For example, using it for hardware security dongles in an office environment as well as USB headset port for gaming.) I mean seriously, what are you going to get done on a system that has no additional features beyond the base OS? Answer: nothing.
Things that are purely flash with no real functional benefit are kitchen sinking. That would be things like a full color TFT touch screen LCD, backlighting on EVERYTHING, near literally indestructible cables*, and putting fans on everything.

* - don't get me wrong, I like the indestructibility of the Meka G1's cable. I don't like that it's too thick to route through standard openings and too stiff to do much with. I have a cat. Tougher cables are ALWAYS appreciated, but putting some tight weave over an IBM SDL-PS/2 would more than do the job for anyone, I'd think.

[Polymer]

If you're in the US/Asia/UK, sure. But where I live, there are only gimmicky gaming keyboards¹. Situation in local market is like if everybody stopped importing laptops, and offered only iPad-like tablets. Hype creates demand, and margins are apparently higher on these products.

So you're mad that you aren't given YOUR choice of devices and wish they'd make what YOU want...is that correct?  Forgetting about OS choices, I'm probably not disagreeing with you on your choice of what you want on your keyboard...but I'm also not getting mad that some companies are making things I don't agree with...They're obviously doing it because there is a market for keyboards with those features..they're not worthless features..they have use..to some people..maybe not to you but some people..You might disagree how it is done but you're not their target market.

[wetto]

Does it? The Meka G1 does not - it's the crap passthrough design. And I cannot emphasize the "crap" part nearly enough. Especially since two I tested gave false presence detect on front panel audio. And for some inexplicable reason, appear to ground through the USB hub. (WTF..)

Yes, I've already used one and these are all of its accessories:



It has an C-Media sound-card inside of it and only uses a single USB cable for its HUB, the soundcard and itself. Maybe that's the reason why Thermaltake didn't go ahead with the idea of making a keyboard with backlit, since it'd maybe require two USB cables or removing the soundcard from it (which would make the owners of the previous models quite mad).

Anyways, I probably would prefer a pass-through with good quality, since I own an Auzentech Forte and it's quite powerful when it comes to powering some headphones such as my AKG K240.

Yeah, this is why I'd tend to favor left. But even right side would work for me, since I have my stuff angled. My bigger problem is that they keep using CRAP USB hubs.

The design in the CST-104 is weird beyond description, and probably mostly bugs. It wouldn't use SELSUS reliably, unpredictable and confusing packet loss problems, never liked mass storage devices of any flavor, latency seemed all over the place.. just a miserable experience.

That said, I couldn't put my mouse (and wouldn't anyway) on any keyboard. I have a wireless mouse. The base station is always attached to an independently powered hub so it can charge while the system's off. You know, when I'm not using the system. So it's really more about frequently attached and detached peripherals, like my USB headset and steering wheel setup. I mean really, how often do you disconnect your mouse? Chances are not often, so plugging it into the back of the computer or a hard to access hub is no big deal.

Kinda weird, my Das Keyboard has quite an high-quality USB HUB (well, it does requires a USB cable just for it), and I can use my Xbox 360 receiver and my old USB Headset on it without any problems...

Haven't tested the transfer speed with any benchmark tools, but my USB sticks and extenal hard-drivers work quite well (errrr... but they do become a damn bother to my mouse).

[davkol]

If you're in the US/Asia/UK, sure. But where I live, there are only gimmicky gaming keyboards¹. Situation in local market is like if everybody stopped importing laptops, and offered only iPad-like tablets. Hype creates demand, and margins are apparently higher on these products.

So you're mad that you aren't given YOUR choice of devices and wish they'd make what YOU want...is that correct?  Forgetting about OS choices, I'm probably not disagreeing with you on your choice of what you want on your keyboard...but I'm also not getting mad that some companies are making things I don't agree with...They're obviously doing it because there is a market for keyboards with those features..they're not worthless features..they have use..to some people..maybe not to you but some people..You might disagree how it is done but you're not their target market.

Nope. My problem is that market doesn't work as it should: people demand something, company offers it, everyone profits. It works

I'm not mad at anyone "because they don't make what I want". I would be mad all the time¹. My problems are that (1) offer is dictated by marketing departments and people accept it as what they demand (it's called consumerism); and (2) corporations act unethically and often illegally (this is usually about oligopoly and corruption) — but this is off-topic here.

¹ no-one makes a keyboard/phone/whatever that would suit my needs, all I can do is build/customize my own devices

[Polymer]

Sorry but that IS how the market works.

You can create demand..but if you aren't successful you have a product that doesn't sell.  Or you build something in demand, which also sells.  Your perception of what is in demand is not necessary what the market thinks is in demand. 

If they built in a flower holder into the keyboard, they could try to create demand for it but it would likely fail.  People wouldn't want it, especially if they were paying extra for it...It isn't easy to create demand....yes it happens but things like a LCD on a keyboard...nope..

[wetto]

And does anyone remembers the Verbatim Speaker Keyboard?




lulz, I want a keyboard with a Blu-ray reader, an integrated pair of stereo high quality speakers and a fan for sweaty hands!

[FoxWolf1]

It's kind of silly to expect companies to always wait for people to specifically ask for something. If they did, they wouldn't be able to innovate nearly as much, since people don't often appreciate the value of an improvement until they have some experience with it.

But enough about corporations and stuff. Some people enjoy having Logitech's implementation of an in-keyboard display, and might even be interested in a mechanical keyboard with such. And that's really all there is to say about it.