Author Topic: 3kro scissor switches keyboard  (Read 2740 times)

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Offline fau

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3kro scissor switches keyboard
« on: Thu, 03 January 2013, 17:24:31 »
Hi
I'm looking for a scissor switches keyboard with confirmed 3kro.
It has to be wired and must not have flat keycaps.
Tenkeyless would be nice but not necessary.

Offline inteli722

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Re: 3kro scissor switches keyboard
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 03 January 2013, 17:49:21 »
I've never seen a Scissors-switch keyboard besides a few logitech keyboards and one Filco. Wired is probably standard, and I'm not sure if they confirm xKeyrollover on anything other than mechanicals (since those are the markets they are advertised for. I sure haven't seen any true Tenkeyless Scissorswitch keyboards (or any that aren't mech or Capacitive). I'm actually kind of curious why you want a scissorswitch. I don't hate them, I have a pretty good chiclet one in my laptop, but i'm curious why you would want a standalone one. Only reasons I can think of is if your Laptop keyboard cut out and you need a replacement, or if you're on a serious budget.

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Offline fau

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Re: 3kro scissor switches keyboard
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 03 January 2013, 18:17:12 »
I want such keyboard because I have one and it's excellent. I tried mech keyboards and they are slightly better for writing but I'm very confortable with scissor switches and I'm on a budget. The one I have is way better than any laptop keyboard I've ever used.

I need 3kro for playing quake. Typing is priority though. I know xkro isn't advertised on such keyboards therefore I'm asking here.

I'm wondering whether I should get one of these cheaper mech keyboards like noppoo/keycool/hpe but lets not go off topic.

Offline spacecase

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Re: 3kro scissor switches keyboard
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 03 January 2013, 18:46:26 »
which one do you have?

Offline fau

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Re: 3kro scissor switches keyboard
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 03 January 2013, 19:06:35 »
I don't have it with me atm (this is why I need a new one). I believe it's a chineese no-name probably plagiat. It's 10+ years old so I doubt I can buy it nowadays. It's big with wide spaces between keys (This is why it feels better than laptop keyboards i think. Keys always have the same feeling and never get stuck). It has a row of silver multimedia buttons at the top, rounded rectangular silvery case, white translucent keycaps and blue backlight.

Offline davkol

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Re: 3kro scissor switches keyboard
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 04 January 2013, 00:08:00 »
Logitech K800/Illuminated Keyboard are 6KRO.

Offline fau

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Re: 3kro scissor switches keyboard
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 04 January 2013, 21:43:33 »
Logitech K800/Illuminated Keyboard are 6KRO.
Good call, thanks. It's in close price range to cheap mech keyboards so I'd rather get one of these instead.
Waiting for more suggestions.

Offline fau

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Re: 3kro scissor switches keyboard
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 05 January 2013, 08:16:25 »
What about logitech k200 for example? Does anyone have it and can test if it is 3kro (at least in left hand area)

Offline davkol

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Re: 3kro scissor switches keyboard
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 05 January 2013, 08:34:32 »
I'm not sure if it's scissor switch.

Offline fau

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Re: 3kro scissor switches keyboard
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 05 January 2013, 10:07:43 »
Are there any other low profile switches?

Offline urbanus

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Re: 3kro scissor switches keyboard
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 05 January 2013, 16:35:23 »
with confirmed 3kro.

I'm not sure this means what you think it means.

Membrane keyboards (such as rubber domes, scissor switches and IBM Model M) are 2kro.  This is a limitation of the technology: the manufacturer can't fit diodes to a membrane, so there is no *guarantee* that when you press more than 2 keys that a ghost won't be formed.  Ghosts happen when you press 3 keys that form 3 corners of a rectangle on the keyboard's column/row matrix.  The back-flow of current causes the fourth corner to go hot: a ghost.  However this doesn't mean that every combination of three keys will cause a ghost.  It also doesn't mean that such keyboards are limited to sending 2 keys at once to the host: practically every USB keyboard on the market supports the low-speed USB spec limit of 6 keys plus modifiers.

So what 2kro means in practice is that *some combinations* of 3 keys won't work properly, but if the designer of the keyboard has laid out the matrix and written the firmware to avoid common problems, you should rarely encounter any issues in practice.

But since the marketing materials of membrane keyboards never go into details about the layout of the matrix and how the controller is programmed, I don't see any easy way of telling if you will have a problem unless you can try before you buy, or ask someone who owns the model you want.

Offline fau

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Re: 3kro scissor switches keyboard
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 06 January 2013, 05:39:39 »
Thank you for explanation.
Quote
So what 2kro means in practice is that *some combinations* of 3 keys won't work properly, but if the designer of the keyboard has laid out the matrix and written the firmware to avoid common problems, you should rarely encounter any issues in practice.
Yes, 2kro means what I think it means. I tried few membrane keyboards and each of them had issues with my key bindings: two of esdf + space + one of the left hand keys. I can imagine a situation where I would need to use all 5 fingers but it's rare enough that I can ignore it.
I'll probably end up buying it online so I asked for full 3kro just in case.