Author Topic: My very first mechanical keyboard?  (Read 3773 times)

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Offline Aufwind

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My very first mechanical keyboard?
« on: Tue, 08 January 2013, 19:06:44 »
Hi @ all,

I already read some posts and had a look into your (awesome) wiki and since it states that every question is welcome I will empty my heart here in hope for a valuable answer. :-)

In short: I need advice for which keyboard to go. My research turned out, that the following keyboards are the ones to consider, since they seam to have a good reputation and are available to buy within germany.

  • Leopold, 119 €, tenkeyless available
  • Filco Majestouch-2, 169 €
  • Das Keyboard 129 €
  • Zowie Celeritas, 119 €

Since I have only theoretical experience (http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mechanical-keyboard-guide By the way: How do I hide the URL behind human readable text?) about the different Switch types and I want the keyboard for writing and only gaming from time to time, I was thinking of going for the brown switches, since they seem to be a good middle thing. And I am flirting with a tenkeyless keyboard since I have the feeling that I almost never use the "NumPad" on the right side of my keyboard. Especially the one from Filco with yellow keys looks Mjammy (http://www.diatec.co.jp/en/)!

Sadly only the Das Keyboard has a USB Hub which I find very useful. But it this no must have for me. What matters more is the durability, availability of swappable keys and typing quality. Is there something I should know befor deciding for which keyboard to go?

And since I am on it: What are the O-Ring-Mods for I read about here and there?

Glad for any advice
Aufwind

Offline KangarooZombies

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 08 January 2013, 19:28:56 »
Welcome to GeekHack!

The Filco is what  i would reccomend, i know it looks pricy now, but down the road  you will really thank yourself that you went with that board. Solid board all around. That being said... all those other keyboards are fine choices, the Das is solid but a bit bulky for my taste, also its a fingerprint magnet.

O- ring mods:


Good luck man!
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Offline missalaire

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 08 January 2013, 19:58:04 »
I'd recommend either the Filco or Leopold. Both have great quality keyboards and have a lot of options available for swappable key caps.
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Offline Aufwind

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 08 January 2013, 20:33:07 »
Thank you for your feedback. I think I will go fo the Filco. But before that I have to try which switches are suited best for me. :-) Can't risk that much money without beeing sure.

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 08 January 2013, 20:36:15 »
Personally I prefer Leopold, but I like the little details, detachable cable, in key lock indicators, the case styling, and Cherry stabilizers. It also is better value than Filco by a bit with easily just as good build quality. If importing is an option, and I know there is downsides about additional fee when import, there may be some other options to discuss.
Now, what switch?

Offline Aufwind

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 08 January 2013, 20:39:10 »
Thank you for your feedback, lysol. I just ordered this http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/wasd-sampler-kit.html to get to know the switches bette. After testing them I will decide for which switches I wanna go. :-)

I see that WASD offers full customization of a keyboard. I will hafe a deeper look into this. Looks good so far.

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 08 January 2013, 20:42:56 »
I would also advise you to look ebay. There are always some good deals on Cherry G80-1500, 3000, and others there. Give you a good chance to try out some full boards for often under 30€. Especially look out for models that have the letter H or S in them (ie G80-3000HAD, SAD), those have some of the best keycaps ever made.

Offline Aufwind

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 08 January 2013, 20:50:25 »
If we are talking about Keycaps, we don't mean the switches, I assume. Am I right?

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 08 January 2013, 20:56:19 »
Keycap is what you touch. Switch is what is under. Those Cherry G80 will have MX switch also just as all the other board you mention in your first post. They aren't the most deluxe board in build quality but I still love my Cherry. They are kind of like having the best tire and engine from formula1 on a Trabant...

Offline rowdy

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 08 January 2013, 21:59:52 »
The yellow Filco is one of the nicest keyboards I have seen, but I haven't been able to get one in Australia yet.  Some keycaps ... maybe ... maybe ...

The WASD Sampler Kit is also an excellent idea.  The yellow keycap that comes with that is very washed out and pastel compared to the Filco yellow keycaps.
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Offline Tony

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 09 January 2013, 07:55:23 »
If you can afford the Filco then definitely go for it. If not, Leopold is my next choice.
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Offline Mountain Man

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 09 January 2013, 12:25:43 »
I see that WASD offers full customization of a keyboard. I will hafe a deeper look into this. Looks good so far.
You can't go wrong with WASD Keyboards.  They make a great product, and their customer service is excellent.

Offline Aufwind

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 09 January 2013, 12:26:12 »
Since I really have to be sure and ordering the Flico would require a complicated import, I ordered the Cherry G80-3000LSCDE from Amazon.de According to the technical sheat of Cherry it has the blue switches. I will try them out, since I am a heavy typer and decide then if they please me.

Is this keyboard moddable?

Offline daerid

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 09 January 2013, 12:26:30 »

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 09 January 2013, 12:35:19 »
G80-3000 is a fine keyboard, and it is PCB mount so it is very easily moddable to exchange stems and springs without any soldering required. It's a great starter as it allows you to try every switch on the same keyboard if you like. You will just need to get various type of stem and spring which is often sold or traded around here.
It also has a standard layout without any non standard keysizes, so it is not a big task to find other keycap sets for it either if you wished.
« Last Edit: Wed, 09 January 2013, 12:37:28 by lysol »

Offline Aufwind

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 09 January 2013, 12:58:43 »
Thank you lysoll, now I am more glad that I bought one. Are the switches that easy to swap? Do I have to use a soldering iron for that?

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 09 January 2013, 13:09:32 »
No it is very easy...

You will only need to obtain the different switch internals, which is usually quite inexpensive. Though depending on deals sometimes you can still luck out on ebay for full G80 for less, especially if you want to try blacks.

Offline MarkPharaoh

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Re: Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 09 January 2013, 13:14:08 »
Thank you lysoll, now I am more glad that I bought one. Are the switches that easy to swap? Do I have to use a soldering iron for that?

It's very easy, you only really need a small flathead (or something similar) and some tweezers. You can find videos on YouTube.
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Offline Aufwind

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 09 January 2013, 13:17:34 »
Thank you so much for this much and fast feedback. Seems really easy to swap switches. Let's see how I feel about the blues.

I've seen a video in which one added O-Rings underneath the keys and the keyboard got much less loud. Is this possible with the G80-3000, too? With any switch? If yes for which O-Ring should one go? I understand they have different thickness...

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 09 January 2013, 13:22:21 »
Personally I reccomend to try without them first. Especially with blues that have a very clear actuation point, you might find that you don't bottom out. If you don't o ring serve no purpose. If you do and decide to try them you need to stay away from the very thick o ring. Cherry keycap is shorter and it will prevent the key from actuation.

Offline iri

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 09 January 2013, 13:26:25 »
my advice is to buy g80-3000 lqcde next, and then swap springs with your present keyboard. you will then have one board with ergo clears (the best cherry option imo) and another one with ghetto greens.
just be VERY accurate when removing keycaps (do not move them left-right much and use keycap puller if possible) and always push the moving part of the switch (the one with cross on the top) when removing switch upper to keep the switch on place on pcb.
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Offline uJalled

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 09 January 2013, 13:27:31 »
Just keep in mind the non-standard spacebar on the Leopold, and if swapping keys isn't an issue for you, then I would agree that Leopold has better value over Filco and WASD. Das gets fingerprinted very easily, and besides for the price, you're better off going with a WASD.

Offline Aufwind

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 09 January 2013, 13:35:32 »
iri, would you be so kind and explain to me the terms "ergo clears" and "ghetto greens"?

Offline Saturn

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 09 January 2013, 18:19:17 »
Personally I prefer Leopold, but I like the little details, detachable cable, in key lock indicators, the case styling, and Cherry stabilizers. It also is better value than Filco by a bit with easily just as good build quality.

My first keyboard was a Leopold TKL, and my second was a Filco TKL, and I felt like the Filco was LOADS better in build quality.

Anyone else out there feel the same, or did I just tell myself that to justify the cost of the purchase?

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 09 January 2013, 18:54:40 »
OP, I just upgraded from a Razer Blackwidow to a Filco MJ2. I LOVE my Filco and would highly recommend it to you. I have it in blues and it just feels amazing to type on. Welcome to GH ^_^

Offline Caaaarrrt

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 09 January 2013, 19:31:30 »
iri, would you be so kind and explain to me the terms "ergo clears" and "ghetto greens"?

Ergo Clears are clear switches with blue, red or brown springs, they are know as 'Ergo' because the blue, red or brown springs are lighter than the clear springs, making them feel more ergonomic.

Ghetto greens are blue switches with black, or in this case clear springs, which are heavier than blue springs. They are known as Ghetto greens because it's like a cheap/'Ghetto' way of replicating cherry mx green switches, which are like blue switches but with heavier springs.
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Offline Aufwind

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 07:36:26 »
Woooaaaah, I just received my first mechanical keyboard on which I type right now for the very first time!! Amazon is incredibly fast. Took them only 20 hours to get me my package after I bought the keyboard - astonishing! Basically I can now convert the questionmark in the title of this thread to an exclamationmark. :D

First impression: Typing on this G80-3000 with MX-Blues is loud - no doubt! I am surprised too about the feeling I experience while typing. After all of the reading and understanding of theory and looking at force-way-diagrams I never could have thought how they fell right now. And I do miss badly thos little marker on the F and the J Keycap. My brain needs those orientation points for (kind of) touch typing.

Honestly I don't know if I like the MX-Blues, since I have no comparison how the other Switches do feel like. And I think I will need some time to adjust to this new typing experience.

I already signed up for Mrinterface's sinkpag project but I am afraid it will take to much time until I'll get the possibility to test the switches in this awesome bag.

Since the returning policy in Germany is very cool (online purchased products can be returned within 14 days if you don't like them, but you must have been carefully with them of course) I am thinking of some other keyboards to test - at least keyboards with other switches.

Since I am for the hunt for a keyboard for writing and conroling my computer through shortcurts - and maybe to vimprove myself ^^ and only to play once in a while, what do you suggest which Switches I should test first? Does it make a big difference if I try the same switches on different keyboards?

Glad for any feedback!


Edit: I just realized, that my way of typing on a rubberdome keyboard over the years is the biggest issue I have with this keyboard. I am used to use so much force when typing on a rubberdome. Using the same force on this MX-Blues keyboard results in a sound like a machine gun firing. At the moment I am trying hard not to push the keys completely down and only so far as the click happens and is a totally different experience. I am slow as a turtle but I am using only a tiny of fraction of force as I used to on a rubberdome and I now understand why writer do prefer the MX-Blues I assume. My force control is quite amteurish and I don't always succeed to not presse a button to hard but time will get me there.

Edit 2: It occures to me that if I want to use shortcuts it is much hardet to not bottom out the keys. It came to me that for a programmer it may be better to use sort of a mixed collection of different type of switches. Is this common?
« Last Edit: Thu, 10 January 2013, 19:56:11 by Aufwind »

Offline rowdy

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 10 January 2013, 19:11:25 »
I chose MX blues for my first modern mechanical keyboard as the switches are the closest to the NEC switches in my favourite keyboard that I more or less learned to type on.

The same switch in different keyboard can feel different.  This is mainly due to either plate or PCB mounted switches, or quality of manufacture.  Many people have reported this.

It is said that with practice you can learn not to bottom out the keys, especially with MX blues.  There is a slight tactile bump and the click as the switch actuates, and you can (apparently) train your fingers to stop when that happens, instead of pressing the key all the way in.  I have tried but I still bottom out after about 6 months using MX blues.

Alternatively you can try some O-rings - rubber rings that fit under each keycap and cushion the keycap so it does not go all the way down.

As for switch samples, WASD keyboards has a sampler kit that includes each common MX switch (blue, brown, black, red), one of each colour keycap that WASD sells, and also a selection of O-rings.  I can recommend this: http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/sampler-kit-1.html

Also WASD keyboard has a facility to design your own keyboards.  You can put any switch type in any position: http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/wasd-v1-custom-keyboard.html
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Offline BossNguyen

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Re: My very first mechanical keyboard?
« Reply #28 on: Tue, 23 April 2013, 17:29:50 »
iri, would you be so kind and explain to me the terms "ergo clears" and "ghetto greens"?

Ergo Clears are clear switches with blue, red or brown springs, they are know as 'Ergo' because the blue, red or brown springs are lighter than the clear springs, making them feel more ergonomic.

Ghetto greens are blue switches with black, or in this case clear springs, which are heavier than blue springs. They are known as Ghetto greens because it's like a cheap/'Ghetto' way of replicating cherry mx green switches, which are like blue switches but with heavier springs.

So Clear and Black switches are somewhat similar? I am still new to this mechanical switches and trying to learn the different switches.