Author Topic: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour  (Read 11849 times)

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Offline Tempest790

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #50 on: Sat, 02 March 2013, 10:26:50 »
Please give us update when you can.

Offline mechanisch

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #51 on: Sat, 02 March 2013, 11:33:17 »
The first round is already in progress.  But there will be future rounds!

Sweet.  This is an awesome idea; there's a few switches on there I haven't tried so I hope to maybe get in on the next round.

Offline Batmann

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Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #52 on: Sat, 02 March 2013, 11:57:42 »
Awesome idea,
I like how most of the exchanges here are confidence based

Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #53 on: Sat, 02 March 2013, 12:03:05 »
I wanted to try one of these so bad when I was a newb. By now, I have every switch including the more exotic ones.

Perhaps just a suggestion for the next round: maybe something like a poker can be shipped out so it contains all stock switch types, some switches with different types of lube, some switches with different korean springs, and one or two with stickers. Shipping will be a tad more expensive, but at least you guys will get to try out all those "aftermarket" mods.

Offline blackrim

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #54 on: Sun, 03 March 2013, 15:14:42 »
I like how Sinzz did his review so here is mine

Red - light as a feather and linear
Black - heavy linear
Red w/ Clear - freakin heavy
Ghetto Reds - sometimes feels heavier than reds, sometimes lighter
Red w/ Black - same as blacks
Black w/ Clear - same as red w/ clear
Dark Grey - freakin heavy

Brown - light tactile
Brown w/ Black - less tactile than a clear
Brown w/ Clear - tiniest bit lighter than brown w/ black

Ergo Clear - these I like. more of a bump (i.e., tactile) than a brown
Clear w/ Black - little more bump than a regular clear (these are really heavy but I like them better than clears)
Clear - heavy brown (feels a little mushy though)
Grey - heavy clear

Blue - like a blue. light and clicky
Blue w/ Black - tiniest bit lighter than greens
Blue w/ Clear - tiniest bit lighter than greens
Green - heavier blues

White w/ Light - just like blues but with a quieter click (still a click)
White - little heavier than blues (and greens) but not as loud, little more of a click than the browns
White w/ Black - like white but with more click
White w/ Clear - can't tell difference from white w/ black

Toggle w/ Light - fun as hell
Toggle - fun as hell

Likes: ergo clears, white w/ light
Dislikes: reds, greys, blacks, heavy and linear ugh. so tiring

What I learned: I don't like linear. I love to toggle.

Pictures to come and it will be on its way (if there is no snow) tomorrow.
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Offline BossBorot

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #55 on: Sun, 03 March 2013, 17:19:19 »
I wanted to try one of these so bad when I was a newb. By now, I have every switch including the more exotic ones.

Perhaps just a suggestion for the next round: maybe something like a poker can be shipped out so it contains all stock switch types, some switches with different types of lube, some switches with different korean springs, and one or two with stickers. Shipping will be a tad more expensive, but at least you guys will get to try out all those "aftermarket" mods.

Right now I'm trying to figure out which direction to take next.

I built up this tester to around 90% of what it is now around a year ago and only let it out on another forum and amongst some friends. Back then the switches available on this tester where basically all of the options available for customization of cherry mx in the us market. Since then clicky white and toggle came around, which are on this tester, which cover all the mx stem types if you discount stem color and age variations. However by the time I added the clicky whites and toggles a few more layers of customization of cherry mx have hit the market.

Now on top of stem and default springs to play with there are stickers, non stock springs, and lube which add even more dimensions to the equation when building a tester. All of which you mentioned. On top of this is plate mount vs. pcb mount vs. plate mounted pcb switches, as well as different age switches eg. vintage blacks, o rings, and keycap material thickness and profile. Not to mention case variations which can't really be covered with only one board without getting overly complicated.

As I see it one of the biggest advantages of this tester vs a numpad tester are larger regions to type with. You can press a switch down and find its actuation point on a numpad but I think it helps to feel larger regions of different switch types to really get an understanding of a switch.

Retrospectively speaking in trying to cover all of the options available last year I think I made too many compromises which I had mentioned to hashbaz before the tour. I don't think anyone will even think of using cherry blue with clear springs, browns with any heavier spring, and few to none will want to use blacks with clear springs or clears with black springs now that the market has more options and they have lost their rarity draw which is about all that they have going for them to be honest. Therefore for further rounds I think I will have to modify my approach as even though I think this is the best mx tester by far to go out there is a lot of room for improvement to match the current market vs a year ago.

At my disposal I have this tester and two pokers that I can build up with or without plates. However I have to decide what I am prioritizing now that more layers of customization are available and are becoming available as we speak.

In essence this is supposed to help people getting into keyboards. Unfortunately it takes awhile to get around which makes it hard for someone looking for their first board to get their hands on it without waiting for a month or two; which I know I couldn't stand before buying my first mechanical keyboard. Therefore the target is more people who have their first board and are considering what route to take next or extremely patient people without any mechanical keyboard who already have an interest.

Therefore I am trying to figure out right now what step to take next as mentioned before. I want big regions like I have now in the main typing area and likely will abandon the ghetto switch comparison regions as well to further simplify. If I go the poker route, which I have the materials for, I likely will only be able to have 6-8 switch types of which I will only select the most popular combos with my current way of thinking.



However any feed back is appreciated as what happens next is still very much up in the air and it is intended for people just getting into keyboards whom I may have lost touch with by now.
« Last Edit: Sun, 03 March 2013, 17:29:46 by BossBorot »

Offline Tempest790

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #56 on: Thu, 07 March 2013, 13:20:18 »
Keyboard arrived!  I just got home and am playing with it now.  I'll have some opinions on it soon.

Offline Tempest790

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #57 on: Fri, 08 March 2013, 14:08:00 »
That's a lot of interesting combo's for the switches.  Overall, I'd say there isn't much of a difference between clear and black springs in the different switches.  Linear switches don't appear to take on any difference with heavier/lighter springs except the feel.  A red switch with a black or clear spring feels almost exactly like a black switch.  I'm not sure anyone would go through the trouble modifying such a switch like that.

Red - light, smooth, and sounds good when bottoming out for some reason.
Black - medium-heavy linear
Red w/ Clear - feels like a black, maybe slightly heavier
Ghetto Reds - feel like regular red
Red w/ Black - same as black
Black w/ Clear - feels like a regular black
Dark Grey - these are very heavy

Brown - light with small tactile bump
Brown w/ Black - heavier brown, but you can barely feel the tactile bump
Brown w/ Clear - heavier brown, feels like brown w/ black

Ergo Clear - I can see why people love ergo clears.  Much more pronounced tactile bump but still light.  Very good switch!
Clear w/ Black - feel about the same as regular clears
Clear - medium-heavy tactile, but the heavier spring ruins it buy masking the tactile bump too much
Grey - heavy, tactile but the bump is almost unnoticeable

Blue - light, tactile, high-pitch click
Blue w/ Black - heavier feel, tactile bump is still noticeable.  Not quite a green though.  Click is still high-pitch
Blue w/ Clear - feel like blue w/ black
Green - medium-heavy with nice tactile bump.  Click is slightly lower pitch than blues.

White w/ Light - feels like an ergo clear with soft low-pitch click and tactile bump
White - medium-heavy with soft click and tactile bump
White w/ Black - similar to regular white although click seems louder
White w/ Clear - feels and sounds like white w/ black spring

Toggle w/ Light - this is cool!
Toggle - love toggle switches

I definitely like ergo clears.  That is a much better switch than browns in my opinion.  Cherry should make that a factory produced switch.

Toggle switches!  Reminds me of the old Caps Lock on typewriters that would click down when in use and then click up when you were finished.  I might get my next board's Caps Lock, Scroll Lock, and Num Lock modded with these.  I love that.


On you post above, I agree on simplifying the board.  I doubt many modders will attempt to switch out a black switch spring for a clear one or a red switch with a black spring.  Too minor of a difference to me.  It's a lot easier to gauge the feel of switches if I can at least put my first three fingers on the switches (all identical) and press them at random.  It helps give the feel of what it would be like to type on those switches.  A single switch by itself doesn't really allow you to get the "feel" of typing with them.


Offline mashby

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #58 on: Fri, 08 March 2013, 16:00:24 »
Holy crap, I'm up next!  :eek:

I thought this was going to go a lot slower than it has. I was planning on holding a meet-up in Nashville and let folks play with it. I need to see if I can throw that together given the short time frame.

I certainly don't want to hold up the queue, but would it be possible to bump me down the stack if need be?

Offline hashbaz

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #59 on: Fri, 08 March 2013, 16:55:46 »
Sure, I'll PM Tempest790 about it.

Offline Sinzz

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #60 on: Fri, 08 March 2013, 17:49:18 »
I also think that Mech keyboards should probably use Toggle switches for Caps and such. It would just make so much more sense to me, but I know that if people switch out Caps for Ctrl, or what not, it would be difficult to manage.
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Offline Tempest790

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #61 on: Sat, 09 March 2013, 09:04:42 »
Shipped out today.

Offline mashby

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #62 on: Sat, 09 March 2013, 09:17:09 »
Shipped out today.

Who did you ship it to?

Offline Tempest790

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #63 on: Sat, 09 March 2013, 09:52:20 »
I shipped it to fohat.digs. He should get it by Monday.

Offline Lastpilot

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #64 on: Sat, 09 March 2013, 09:55:53 »
I shipped it to fohat.digs. He should get it by Monday.
So did the shipping order change? I need to let whoever is shipping to me know that my address has changed from the original one I filled out. Hashbaz has been notified but I just want to be careful. :)

Offline mashby

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #65 on: Sat, 09 March 2013, 09:59:13 »
I shipped it to fohat.digs. He should get it by Monday.
So did the shipping order change? I need to let whoever is shipping to me know that my address has changed from the original one I filled out. Hashbaz has been notified but I just want to be careful. :)

It did. I asked to be skipped because I'm planning on holding a Meetup here in Nashville and let everyone have a go at the keyboard. I was asleep at the wheel and didn't realize that I was next.

If you need to update your address, just PM Hashbaz since he's coordinating.

Offline Lastpilot

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #66 on: Sat, 09 March 2013, 10:13:05 »
Ah I see, okay that makes sense. PM was sent yesterday. Wow I'm excited for this. :DDD

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #67 on: Sat, 09 March 2013, 10:26:59 »
Cool. How long do I get it for, and/or Mashby, when do you need it?

Atlanta to Nashville should be a 2-day ship.
But what’s wrong with inequality, anyway? Answers to this question are rarely satisfying, but they do serve as a political litmus test about the kind of inequality that matters. A Marxist might concern herself with how economic inequality divides society into classes, allowing capitalists to wield wealth as a weapon, disempower workers, and extract their labor. The humanitarian position tends to prioritize sufficiency of resources and basic rights; feminists, environmentalists, and advocates for the undocumented, the disabled, and minorities would say social inequalities matter, too, and that part of the problem with economic inequality is that it reinforces them.
New research has shown us that economic, social, racial, and gender inequality are inextricably linked—and that the effect of high inequality is to create even more inequality. Many other economists have shown that high levels of inequality hurt democracy because, among other things, they allow rich people and corporations to buy the support of politicians.
- Atossa Araxia Abrahamian 2018

Offline mashby

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #68 on: Sat, 09 March 2013, 10:33:47 »
Cool. How long do I get it for, and/or Mashby, when do you need it?

Atlanta to Nashville should be a 2-day ship.

According the OP, we're suppose to ship it after 3 days.

I'm waiting to hear back from Hashbaz where I've been moved the the list. My hope is the bottom.  :eek: I know, crazy right? But given the coordination with the Mid-South Meetup, I don't want to delay shipping to Lastpilot because I'm holding it until the weekend, etc.

Sorry for making this more complicated that it needed to be.  :-[
« Last Edit: Sat, 09 March 2013, 10:35:47 by mashby »

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #69 on: Sat, 09 March 2013, 10:57:25 »
Silly me, somehow I was thinking that your meeting was next weekend and you were wanting it there at that time.

Now, there will be less rush, I am hoping to enjoy my full 3 days!
But what’s wrong with inequality, anyway? Answers to this question are rarely satisfying, but they do serve as a political litmus test about the kind of inequality that matters. A Marxist might concern herself with how economic inequality divides society into classes, allowing capitalists to wield wealth as a weapon, disempower workers, and extract their labor. The humanitarian position tends to prioritize sufficiency of resources and basic rights; feminists, environmentalists, and advocates for the undocumented, the disabled, and minorities would say social inequalities matter, too, and that part of the problem with economic inequality is that it reinforces them.
New research has shown us that economic, social, racial, and gender inequality are inextricably linked—and that the effect of high inequality is to create even more inequality. Many other economists have shown that high levels of inequality hurt democracy because, among other things, they allow rich people and corporations to buy the support of politicians.
- Atossa Araxia Abrahamian 2018

Offline ishumprod

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #70 on: Sat, 09 March 2013, 11:02:19 »
no superblacks ;0
home-made TKL rubber dome keyboard !

Offline hashbaz

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #71 on: Sat, 09 March 2013, 11:13:58 »
Ah I see, okay that makes sense. PM was sent yesterday. Wow I'm excited for this. :DDD

Received and updated you in my address spreadsheet.

Offline mashby

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #72 on: Sat, 09 March 2013, 15:44:13 »
Thank you hashbaz for all your patience.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #73 on: Tue, 12 March 2013, 15:48:34 »
I shipped it to fohat.digs. He should get it by Monday.

Damn you tease!

I have been drooling.

Stopped by the PO twice yesterday and twice today and still no sign of it!
But what’s wrong with inequality, anyway? Answers to this question are rarely satisfying, but they do serve as a political litmus test about the kind of inequality that matters. A Marxist might concern herself with how economic inequality divides society into classes, allowing capitalists to wield wealth as a weapon, disempower workers, and extract their labor. The humanitarian position tends to prioritize sufficiency of resources and basic rights; feminists, environmentalists, and advocates for the undocumented, the disabled, and minorities would say social inequalities matter, too, and that part of the problem with economic inequality is that it reinforces them.
New research has shown us that economic, social, racial, and gender inequality are inextricably linked—and that the effect of high inequality is to create even more inequality. Many other economists have shown that high levels of inequality hurt democracy because, among other things, they allow rich people and corporations to buy the support of politicians.
- Atossa Araxia Abrahamian 2018

Offline Tempest790

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #74 on: Tue, 12 March 2013, 16:18:03 »
I shipped it to fohat.digs. He should get it by Monday.

Damn you tease!

I have been drooling.

Stopped by the PO twice yesterday and twice today and still no sign of it!

They told me Monday, but I guess that's Post Office optimism.  I just checked the tracking number, and it went through the main sort facility in New Orleans yesterday.  It may not come until tomorrow at the earliest since there are no more updates after that.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #75 on: Wed, 13 March 2013, 17:34:14 »
Received the board this afternoon, finally.

What a cute and beautiful little thing this is, far more interesting and useful than the numpad last year.

This is a real typing experience, but QUITE disorienting to type a word and receive different feedback from each letter stroke!

Also, I am realizing that what I really miss most about the numpad is not the numpad, per se, but that extra "Enter" - that is what I keep reaching for and missing.

This is not my review, yet, I just sat down with it a few minutes ago. I have experienced most of the "straight up" switches but the permutations are staggering.

Am I correct in understanding that some of these are just exercises in handiwork? For example the only difference between red and black is springs, so that a red with black springs is really just a wrong-colored black?

I need to look up the spring table to understand which of these are actually redundant, don't I?

Or are there really some very subtle differences, not counting age, wear, batch, tolerance, etc?

Thank you so much Hashbaz, this is awesome!
But what’s wrong with inequality, anyway? Answers to this question are rarely satisfying, but they do serve as a political litmus test about the kind of inequality that matters. A Marxist might concern herself with how economic inequality divides society into classes, allowing capitalists to wield wealth as a weapon, disempower workers, and extract their labor. The humanitarian position tends to prioritize sufficiency of resources and basic rights; feminists, environmentalists, and advocates for the undocumented, the disabled, and minorities would say social inequalities matter, too, and that part of the problem with economic inequality is that it reinforces them.
New research has shown us that economic, social, racial, and gender inequality are inextricably linked—and that the effect of high inequality is to create even more inequality. Many other economists have shown that high levels of inequality hurt democracy because, among other things, they allow rich people and corporations to buy the support of politicians.
- Atossa Araxia Abrahamian 2018

Offline AKIMbO

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #76 on: Wed, 13 March 2013, 17:36:50 »
Received the board this afternoon, finally.

What a cute and beautiful little thing this is, far more interesting and useful than the numpad last year.

This is a real typing experience, but QUITE disorienting to type a word and receive different feedback from each letter stroke!

Also, I am realizing that what I really miss most about the numpad is not the numpad, per se, but that extra "Enter" - that is what I keep reaching for and missing.

This is not my review, yet, I just sat down with it a few minutes ago. I have experienced most of the "straight up" switches but the permutations are staggering.

Am I correct in understanding that some of these are just exercises in handiwork? For example the only difference between red and black is springs, so that a red with black springs is really just a wrong-colored black?

I need to look up the spring table to understand which of these are actually redundant, don't I?

Or are there really some very subtle differences, not counting age, wear, batch, tolerance, etc?

Thank you so much Hashbaz, this is awesome!


Black and red switches have the same exact stem...only blacks use a heavier spring than reds.  If you put a black spring in a red switch you would then have what is essentially a black stock switch (only the stem is red).  Ghetto red is a black stem with a red spring (which is essentially a red switch, but the stem is black in color).  The same goes for blues and greens.  Greens are blues but with a black switch spring.  Stock mx blues use the same spring as stock mx red and stock mx brown...the stem provides more resistance so it makes the stock blue switch a little heavier than stock red and stock brown switches. Hope I didn't confuse you.

Tell me what the white switches feel like.  I'm hoping they feel somewhat more ALPs/Mont Blue-esque...they are supposedly quieter and less tactile than mx blue switches.
« Last Edit: Wed, 13 March 2013, 17:41:37 by AKIMbO »
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Offline hashbaz

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #77 on: Wed, 13 March 2013, 23:15:25 »
Whites are great but I wouldn't compare them to Alps-type switches. The click is noticeably muted compared with blues.

Offline Tempest790

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #78 on: Thu, 14 March 2013, 00:00:14 »
To me, Whites feel tactile with a soft click but it's different from both the Greens and Blues.  Green have a heavy feel but it's at the top of the switch.  Once you press down on it, it reaches the tactile point and then feels much lighter.  Not to unlike a buckling spring to me, but not quite like that.  Blues are light, medium tactile, and high-pitch click.

Whites don't feel like either one of those.  They don't seem as hard to start pressing like the Green, but the tactile point seems to me to be a bit further down on the key press (maybe the middle to upper middle).  The click I soft and muted, not nearly as loud as the Blues or Greens.  It's a very interesting switch, and probably has the most unique feel along with Ergo Clears.

Unfortunately, I don't know much about Alps switches so I can't compare those.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #79 on: Thu, 14 March 2013, 08:44:35 »
Holy Sh!t

I have spent hours in frustration and blind panic with this keyboard, including multiple reboots and trips into BIOS.

"Right Control" and "Applications" are toggles, and somehow I must press it often, by accident, wherever I rest the palm heel of my right hand!

My keyboard, mouse, and computer go berserk and out of control at random times, and it has taken me hours to understand what has been causing it. I was afraid that my (relatively new) motherboard and/or SSD boot drive were failing.

Whoever builds another one of these should make "Caps Lock" the toggle, and maybe some junk key that never sees any use. A toggled Control might be extremely valuable in certain very specific circumstances, but not in general.

F_cking A!

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I don't feel a lot of difference between the whites and the greens, although the sound is better with the white.

Generally, I like the feel of blues a lot, and greens a bit less, but the sound drives me crazy. I suppose that I am so accustomed to my flossed Model F buckling springs that the sharp high clickyness of blues and greens is too penetrating. Clearly, sound itself is not a problem for me.

The "Escape" key on this board has a white that seems to have lost most of its click, and I like it A LOT BETTER than the standard whites. In any case, they are heavy but I would choose them over greens if I wanted that weight.

I continue to have trouble articulating my opinions on Cherry vs Alps. Somehow, I prefer the "feel" of Alps in general (currently I have a white Alps branded board, a salmon AEK, a cream AEK2, and a black Dell AT101) although I understand the Cherries are probably sturdier and more "dependable" with off-center strikes, etc. I can understand the discomfort from "wobble" and such.

This is not my actual review. The spacebar has a pronounced "ring" to it that I find interesting, so far, but would probably get tired of it in the long run.


« Last Edit: Thu, 14 March 2013, 08:47:02 by fohat.digs »
But what’s wrong with inequality, anyway? Answers to this question are rarely satisfying, but they do serve as a political litmus test about the kind of inequality that matters. A Marxist might concern herself with how economic inequality divides society into classes, allowing capitalists to wield wealth as a weapon, disempower workers, and extract their labor. The humanitarian position tends to prioritize sufficiency of resources and basic rights; feminists, environmentalists, and advocates for the undocumented, the disabled, and minorities would say social inequalities matter, too, and that part of the problem with economic inequality is that it reinforces them.
New research has shown us that economic, social, racial, and gender inequality are inextricably linked—and that the effect of high inequality is to create even more inequality. Many other economists have shown that high levels of inequality hurt democracy because, among other things, they allow rich people and corporations to buy the support of politicians.
- Atossa Araxia Abrahamian 2018

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #80 on: Fri, 15 March 2013, 19:23:06 »
The terminology in the Deskthority wiki is very inexact, and this is the first time I really tried to sort it out.
Here is what I tease out of the chart:

45cN     “Light”              Red, Brown
50cN        “Light”              Blue
50cN        “Medium Stiff”   White (1st entry)
55cN        “Medium Stiff”   Clear
60cN        “Medium Stiff”   Black
80cN        “Medium Stiff”   Green, White (2nd entry)
80cN        “Stiff”              Grey, Dark Grey
150cN   “Extra Stiff”           Super Black

So clearly somebody did not get caught smoking weed while performing this experiment, but the results betrayed them. As I understand it, Cherry’s manufacturing tolerances are greater than 5cN so these could be “batch” variations.

Is the blue spring really considered to be about 10% stiffer than brown and red, or was this a statistical error?

Are the “Medium Stiffs” (white, clear, and black) actually equal at 55 +/- 5?

If these guesses are correct, then many of these keys are really just exercises in handyman part–swapping.
Honestly, I can’t feel a difference between black with clear spring and regular black, and isn’t red with clear spring pretty much a black?

So the truly unique custom switches, of the 24 total, are:

Ergo Clear
White with light spring
Toggle with light spring (to me, the “light” feels heavier, are these mis-labeled?)
Brown with black or clear spring
Blue with black or clear spring
White with clear spring

Is this generally accurate?

Thanks!
But what’s wrong with inequality, anyway? Answers to this question are rarely satisfying, but they do serve as a political litmus test about the kind of inequality that matters. A Marxist might concern herself with how economic inequality divides society into classes, allowing capitalists to wield wealth as a weapon, disempower workers, and extract their labor. The humanitarian position tends to prioritize sufficiency of resources and basic rights; feminists, environmentalists, and advocates for the undocumented, the disabled, and minorities would say social inequalities matter, too, and that part of the problem with economic inequality is that it reinforces them.
New research has shown us that economic, social, racial, and gender inequality are inextricably linked—and that the effect of high inequality is to create even more inequality. Many other economists have shown that high levels of inequality hurt democracy because, among other things, they allow rich people and corporations to buy the support of politicians.
- Atossa Araxia Abrahamian 2018

Offline AKIMbO

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #81 on: Sat, 16 March 2013, 10:51:21 »
The measurment of blues at 50 and red/brown at 45 is accurate.  All the of those switches use the same spring.  The 5cn difference in the blue switches is solely due to the stem, not the spring.

Early whites came with light springs.  Current whites use heavy springs.  So the light white switch is a modern take on the very early white switch.

Blues with black springs are essential greens with a different stem color. 

As confusing as all this is...it is nothing compared to alps.
« Last Edit: Sat, 16 March 2013, 10:54:50 by AKIMbO »
Mkawa Beta SSK | IBM SSK | IBM Model AT F | IBM F 122 | IBM Unsaver | LZ-GH (62g ergo clears) | HHKB Pro2 Type-S | HHKB Pro2 | Realforce 87U-Silent (55g uniform) | Leopold FC660C | Omnikey 101 (blue alps) | Kingsaver (blue alps) | Zenith ZKB2 (green alps)
| KBD75 (box reds)

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #82 on: Sun, 17 March 2013, 17:11:55 »
This review has got to begin by thanking everybody involved in assembling it.

Quite a bit of work went into this keyboard tour and I really appreciate it!

It is my understanding that a large percentage of readers here are quite familiar with the “standard” Cherry switch types: red, blue, brown, and black; so I will not bother with “reviewing” them (including odd mash-ups that offer nothing new, such as ghetto reds or red with black spring).

Working my way down the list,

Clear / Ergo Clear – These are extremely nice switches, I was very pleased with the feel and sound. Although the ergo variant has a nicer feel, and I always prefer a lighter switch given the choice, the difference is minimal and if there is a reliability issue, I would go with the standard. I agree that the lighter spring does not seem to move the key back up as you would expect. Also, I would not expend the effort of changing the springs myself.

White / White with Light spring – These are not bad, especially the “Escape” key, which has a white that seems to have lost its click. Although I am a diehard buckling spring man, and Alps lover, clicky Cherries annoy me. Between blue, and green, I would prefer blue because of its lighter weight. But I would choose white over either, because click of the white is significantly less annoying to my ears, at least.

Green / Blue with Black spring – These have no particular appeal to me, I don’t like the sound of the click, and, if I did choose a clicky, I would take the lighter blue one in preference to the heavier one.
Brown with heavier springs – These are nice, I really like the tactile non–clicky Cherries, and, to my fingers, the tactility of the browns is less pronounced than the clears, so, all things being equal, I would prefer the greater tactility of the clears. But, if I were buying browns, I would chose the light ones.

Grey – These are not bad, but, as usual, I would chose the similar clears because of the lighter touch.

Dark Grey – These heavyweights make sense on ancillary keys, but I am happy enough with blacks.

Specialty Keys – The toggle keys on this board made me insane! I understand the idea, and actually like that the old Apple keyboards had toggle Caps Lock. I also understand that people with less–than–complete finger strength and mobility could derive great benefit from toggle keys, but for me, particularly in the absence of indicator lights, they are frightening. Toggle "Apps" WTF?

The spacebar (grey) was very nice, when I first got the board it had a “ringing” after–effect that was rather pleasant, however it mostly went away after a while. I began to miss it. I do like the idea of a heavier spacebar. 

If I were building my own board, I would probably like to use several different switch types, particularly at the ancillary keys. I would want the main body to be light and tactile, such as brown or clear, but I would use others that were clicky and/or heavier around the perimeter, to provide feedback to tell me that I was no longer typing letters or numbers.

My own style has me pounding certain keys such as “Delete” and the arrow keys, while typing pretty lightly on the regular keys.
Currently, the only MX keyboard I own is a beige G80–11900 with blacks. I am planning to lube it and add soft landing pads, so it will be good for my harshest “stab and poke” technique.

In the foreseeable future, I will probably buy 2 more, a full–size probably with browns (although I would certainly consider, and probably prefer, clears if they were reasonably available in the board I selected), and a TKL with reds (for delicate work).

I am planning to ship this thing out tomorrow morning, but I do not yet have the next name and address. My turn was supposed to be Mashby's, but I think that he is now planning for at least one more person in between. Maybe I will just keep it for a while longer!
But what’s wrong with inequality, anyway? Answers to this question are rarely satisfying, but they do serve as a political litmus test about the kind of inequality that matters. A Marxist might concern herself with how economic inequality divides society into classes, allowing capitalists to wield wealth as a weapon, disempower workers, and extract their labor. The humanitarian position tends to prioritize sufficiency of resources and basic rights; feminists, environmentalists, and advocates for the undocumented, the disabled, and minorities would say social inequalities matter, too, and that part of the problem with economic inequality is that it reinforces them.
New research has shown us that economic, social, racial, and gender inequality are inextricably linked—and that the effect of high inequality is to create even more inequality. Many other economists have shown that high levels of inequality hurt democracy because, among other things, they allow rich people and corporations to buy the support of politicians.
- Atossa Araxia Abrahamian 2018

Offline Lastpilot

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #83 on: Sun, 17 March 2013, 17:19:05 »
Not sure what the situation is with Mashby right now, but I'm fine either way. I have an exam this Thursday and a C++ project due next Tuesday so I don't mind waiting. But, hey, if I'm next then it would be my pleasure. :D

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #84 on: Sun, 17 March 2013, 18:33:16 »
I think Mashby wanted this delayed until early April so he could have it for the MechanicalKeyboards.com/Mid-South Meetup.
Please check out TactileZine.com!

Offline mashby

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #85 on: Sun, 17 March 2013, 19:35:55 »
I am planning to ship this thing out tomorrow morning, but I do not yet have the next name and address. My turn was supposed to be Mashby's, but I think that he is now planning for at least one more person in between. Maybe I will just keep it for a while longer!

Yes, I'm last on the list now. :-)

Offline hashbaz

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #86 on: Sun, 17 March 2013, 19:41:16 »
Thanks for the epic review, fohat.  Sent you the next address (Lastpilot).

Offline Lastpilot

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Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #87 on: Fri, 22 March 2013, 09:16:41 »
Update: Currently working on review. Should be able to send the tester out either tomorrow or Monday. :)

Offline Lastpilot

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #88 on: Sat, 23 March 2013, 10:44:12 »
Was busy yesterday and I'm working today 9-6, so I'll have to send this out Monday morning. Sorry for the delay, guys!

Offline Lastpilot

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #89 on: Sun, 24 March 2013, 23:24:50 »
Sending out tomorrow, please PM me address!

Offline hashbaz

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #90 on: Sun, 24 March 2013, 23:58:08 »
Sending out tomorrow, please PM me address!

PM'd

Offline Lastpilot

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #91 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 01:04:49 »
Alright, guys I know most people who are interested in switches already have accessibility to all the specs so I thought I would write up something a little more fun.

Welcome to my

Super Subjective Nerdy Weird Review
EX EDITION HYPER-MODE

Chapter 1
Two Worlds Collide: Heaven or Hell

Linear: Some who have typed on linear switches claimed to have witnessed a dark aura emit from the PCB.  As my index finger reaches the bottom of the switch, it quickly becomes cold and numb before I jerk my hand away, gripping my wrist in shock. Linear switches are empty, cold and heartless. They emit a hollow sound that matches the feeling they produce. Some say the devil himself types on reds and blacks, producing double-tapped chaos as he wishes. Demons called FPS players would prefer this type of switch. Linear switches tempt users with the promise of maddening speed with little interruption.

Tactile: Typing on a tactile switch brings balance to the soul. Some say all buttons were born with a click; it was the natural state of the world. The divine law of input devices dictates that they must always give the user feedback of a successful command. The click provides harmony and order to the keyboard world. For every message to the board, there is a message sent back to the user. Some say the guardians of the world typed on golden tactile swtiches to write the cosmic laws of the universe. Tactile switches have been known to bring out the typing hero in the worst of typists.

Chapter 2
Elements of the Universe: Production Switches

Red: A lightweight creature, priding itself in its flickable speed. Sometimes said to be the most popular production switch, the red switch is what made MX Cherry cherry. They say the color was inherited from the fiery hearts of gamers around the world, embedding their passion into the switch itself and embuing it with a bright red color.

Black: A large, heavyset creature which moves with authority in every step. The black switch is known to wield amazing strength. Some of the older ones have been said to be able to move mountains. This mysterious switch attracts mysterious people. Not much more is known about it.

Blue: Talkative beings which clamor for attention. The blue switch bring a loud crunch in every bite. The song of the blue switch may easily lure some while driving others into hell bent madness. The blue switch provides company to the lone worker while bringing agony to team players.

Brown: The brown switch is the most natural; the direct descendant of mother nature herself. A balance of tactility and silence make this switch a natural choice for many users. Playing it safe, the brown switch may appeal to the masses but at the cost of disappointing the obsessive.

Chapter 3
The Quest of Man: Evolution with Custom Switches

Ergo Clear: A project within the darkest, most secretive areas of the ancient world was inspired by the eternal quest for the perfect switch. After millions of years of sweat, blood and tears mankind finally developed the technology to bring artificial birth to the ergo clear switch. Even if the switch may be very costly and difficult to develop, the users who complete a successful birthing of a ergo clear board are rewarded with eternal happiness in the MX switch universe.
« Last Edit: Mon, 25 March 2013, 01:12:30 by Lastpilot »

Offline Sai

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #92 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 01:13:04 »
^ are you reincarnation of some poet or writer?  :p
i really like the way you describe the switches and I shall be part of "Hell"  ;)
- WTB/WTT - Cotton Candy Brobot V2

Offline Lastpilot

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Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #93 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 14:38:51 »
Lol it was just something fun to write, hope nobody takes it too seriously. But really the switch tester was an awesome experience, thank you everyone who made it possible!

Update: Just now shipped out to Nawit!

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #94 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 16:31:55 »
Way to go, Lastpilot.

That was a superb review, even if it did not touch all the bases.

Thank you!
But what’s wrong with inequality, anyway? Answers to this question are rarely satisfying, but they do serve as a political litmus test about the kind of inequality that matters. A Marxist might concern herself with how economic inequality divides society into classes, allowing capitalists to wield wealth as a weapon, disempower workers, and extract their labor. The humanitarian position tends to prioritize sufficiency of resources and basic rights; feminists, environmentalists, and advocates for the undocumented, the disabled, and minorities would say social inequalities matter, too, and that part of the problem with economic inequality is that it reinforces them.
New research has shown us that economic, social, racial, and gender inequality are inextricably linked—and that the effect of high inequality is to create even more inequality. Many other economists have shown that high levels of inequality hurt democracy because, among other things, they allow rich people and corporations to buy the support of politicians.
- Atossa Araxia Abrahamian 2018

Offline Nawit

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #95 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 09:53:12 »
Tracking says the board should be in my possession sometime today. I'm off today meaning I can review it tonight. I'm probably going to post a review tonight, play with it some more tomorrow and then send it out tomorrow afternoon. Thanks again for doing this! I'll keep you guys posted.

Offline Nawit

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #96 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 17:37:45 »
Review Time!

Off the bat as a keyboard newbie I realized how lame the Razer Blackwidow is compared to other board builds. I immediately regret not researching further before getting my first mechanical keyboard. The switch tester has a much more solid and heavy board which I really like. Also, the key caps are not as "loose" which is something I really don't like about the Blackwidow.

Regarding switches, I fell in love in each one for a different reason. I currently use blues and after testing every switch type I feel like I will stick with them or go to greens. I just love the click feel that comes with the blues and greens. I'm going to stick the the non modified switches because for the most part the modifications did not feel much different to me.

Reds- I really liked the reds because it requires little to no force to activate. Very smooth feel to it but I tried using it in League of Legends and spamming and I just felt like I was missing that "click" that let me know I actually activated the key.

Blacks- Just like reds but they spring back up a lot faster which I like a lot more. Again the lack of a click pushes me away from them but better than the reds because their springs jumps them right back up after you press down on it.

Blues- I love blues. Its what I use. That click is just so satisfying. I prefer these for both gaming and typing.

Brown- Although it lacks the click found in blues and greens, there still is that little bump where you feel the actuation of the switch which I really enjoy + the benefits of reds/blacks by being very smooth. Would choose these if I couldnt get my hands on blues or greens.

Greens- These were the switches I was most excited to try. Harder blues? I was in heaven. I found the green switches to be maybe a bit too hard to press down. I don't know if it is because I am so used to blues or if they are just too heavy. I really wish there was a section dedicated to greens like there was to reds or blues so I could get a better free for it but I still think if I every had to pick something besides blues it would be greens.

Clear- I really did not like the clears. They felt like browns just heavier and the whole point of browns was to get that subtle bump with the linear feel. Not the switch for me.

Grey- Not a fan. Too heavy without that click that I love.

Basically this entire review is biased due to my love for the blue switches but I am definitely thankful and happy that I got to try all possible switches. Now I am having difficulty deciding on what switch to get; greens or blues? I definitely need a new board because the blackwidow seems to be a disgrace to mechanical boards I have started to see.

I'd like to keep the board for another day just to play around with it. Maybe my mind will change. I'll keep you guys posted with when I send it out.

Thanks again guys!


Offline Tempest790

  • Posts: 114
Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #97 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 19:24:56 »
Alright, guys I know most people who are interested in switches already have accessibility to all the specs so I thought I would write up something a little more fun.

Welcome to my

Super Subjective Nerdy Weird Review
EX EDITION HYPER-MODE

Chapter 1
Two Worlds Collide: Heaven or Hell

Linear: Some who have typed on linear switches claimed to have witnessed a dark aura emit from the PCB.  As my index finger reaches the bottom of the switch, it quickly becomes cold and numb before I jerk my hand away, gripping my wrist in shock. Linear switches are empty, cold and heartless. They emit a hollow sound that matches the feeling they produce. Some say the devil himself types on reds and blacks, producing double-tapped chaos as he wishes. Demons called FPS players would prefer this type of switch. Linear switches tempt users with the promise of maddening speed with little interruption.

Tactile: Typing on a tactile switch brings balance to the soul. Some say all buttons were born with a click; it was the natural state of the world. The divine law of input devices dictates that they must always give the user feedback of a successful command. The click provides harmony and order to the keyboard world. For every message to the board, there is a message sent back to the user. Some say the guardians of the world typed on golden tactile swtiches to write the cosmic laws of the universe. Tactile switches have been known to bring out the typing hero in the worst of typists.

Chapter 2
Elements of the Universe: Production Switches

Red: A lightweight creature, priding itself in its flickable speed. Sometimes said to be the most popular production switch, the red switch is what made MX Cherry cherry. They say the color was inherited from the fiery hearts of gamers around the world, embedding their passion into the switch itself and embuing it with a bright red color.

Black: A large, heavyset creature which moves with authority in every step. The black switch is known to wield amazing strength. Some of the older ones have been said to be able to move mountains. This mysterious switch attracts mysterious people. Not much more is known about it.

Blue: Talkative beings which clamor for attention. The blue switch bring a loud crunch in every bite. The song of the blue switch may easily lure some while driving others into hell bent madness. The blue switch provides company to the lone worker while bringing agony to team players.

Brown: The brown switch is the most natural; the direct descendant of mother nature herself. A balance of tactility and silence make this switch a natural choice for many users. Playing it safe, the brown switch may appeal to the masses but at the cost of disappointing the obsessive.

Chapter 3
The Quest of Man: Evolution with Custom Switches

Ergo Clear: A project within the darkest, most secretive areas of the ancient world was inspired by the eternal quest for the perfect switch. After millions of years of sweat, blood and tears mankind finally developed the technology to bring artificial birth to the ergo clear switch. Even if the switch may be very costly and difficult to develop, the users who complete a successful birthing of a ergo clear board are rewarded with eternal happiness in the MX switch universe.


You could make a review of toothpaste sound great.

Offline Dubsgalore

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #98 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 19:31:30 »
wish i could get this to try before i get my gh60 order in :(

Offline mashby

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Re: Ultimate Switch Tester Winter 2013 US Tour
« Reply #99 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 19:35:03 »
wish i could get this to try before i get my gh60 order in :(

It's my understanding that there will be another round. I'm the last one on the list, and I think Nawit sends it to me next, so the next round may not be too far off.  :cool: