Author Topic: Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring  (Read 10983 times)

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Offline mdf

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« on: Tue, 27 November 2007, 21:30:11 »
I've been using a Model M like keyboard (IBM circa 1997) for the last few months, and am getting some complaints when I'm on the phone with customers (I think my co-workers are fed up too...).  I really like the way it feels, and type better with it, but the clacking even gets to me some times.  I just ordered this "Enhanced Quiet Touch" http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/cus101usenon.html version from pckeyboard.com, but haven't gotten it yet.  Any experience with these?  Do you think it will be at least close to the buckling spring?

I was using a Fingerworks Touchstream for years, but the left half finally quit and replacements are VERY expensive now.  It was hard enough switching from it back to a real keyboard (and a nice big trackball), but when I try the "normal" membrane ones we've got scattered around the office its just sad, like half the keystrokes get lost.

Are the non-buckling spring mechanicals any better sound wise?  The Model M one I've got is like bouncing quarters off a table with each key.  Anyone every tried to silence a Model M?  It seems like the spring buckling makes all of the noise, but I wonder if I could pad the tray or something to quiet it down.

Offline fkeidjn

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 27 November 2007, 22:01:59 »
Never tried the Enhanced Quite Touch myself.  It's a rubber dome though.  The Majestouch brown switch model could work, though it's hard to find outside of Japan.
Kinesis Keypad - Filco FKBN104M/EB - Unitek space-saver - Acer 6511-TW - Apple Extended II (M3501) - Scorpius M10 - Cherry G80-1800, AT - SGI Granite - vintage Fujitsu - IBM Model M, 101 and mini - Model F, 84-key AT - Dell AT101W - Northgate 101

Offline mr_sf_applet

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 27 November 2007, 23:48:43 »
Can't answer your question, since I'm unfamiliar with the rubber dome version of the Customizer. But out of curiosity, did you attempt any repairs on your TouchStream after the left pad died out? Like replacing the ribbon cable? Do you still have it? And I must say, that is quite a switch, moving from the TouchStream to a Model M.

The Majestouch with brown Cherry MX switches is indeed pretty quiet, about on a par with the Key Tronic membrane keyboard I use at work.

Offline mdf

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 28 November 2007, 08:56:43 »
There were two problems, the first was that some of the surface mount chips on the left pad were loose.  That was a known problem with some of the earlier models of the keyboard (I had pre-ordered it), and was just intermittent until recently.  I opened it up and the connections on the chip side of the board all looked good, so I'm guessing the sensor side has a run of broken connections now.  The second problem is over the course of about 6 months the controller started degrading and the keyboard would reset continuously and stream all sorts of odd keystrokes by itself.  If the ebay prices ever come down, I'm hoping to snag another one or some parts to see if I can bring it back to life.

So are the mechanical switch models generally not too loud (compared to buckling spring)?  Does anyone make a standard 101 key layout using mechanicals?

Offline mdf

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 28 November 2007, 20:27:26 »
Those Majestouch look great, but it looks like you end up paying $200 for a $80 keyboard because of all the buyer commissions and shipping.  I just ordered 2 Scorpius-M10s based on the reviews I read here.  It seems like the dome membrane quiet touch one will be no good, but who knows, I'm sure someone around the office will want it.  

The Scorpius one looks great, just need to pry the extra 3 keys off.

Offline fkeidjn

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 28 November 2007, 22:02:17 »
The mechanical switches are definitely quieter than the buckling springs, although I'm not sure if your co-workers will tolerate a lower volume clicky keyboard.  I tried the Keytronic rubber-dome keyboard E03601P1, and the key feel is much better than the cheap rubber domes you get in a packaged desktop computer.  I'm guessing that the E03601P1 has a similar feel to the Enhanced Quiet Touch keyboard by Unicomp, although the Unicomp could have an even better feel, for a rubber-dome keyboard.
Kinesis Keypad - Filco FKBN104M/EB - Unitek space-saver - Acer 6511-TW - Apple Extended II (M3501) - Scorpius M10 - Cherry G80-1800, AT - SGI Granite - vintage Fujitsu - IBM Model M, 101 and mini - Model F, 84-key AT - Dell AT101W - Northgate 101

Offline xsphat

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 28 November 2007, 23:12:23 »
Quote from: fkeidjn
The mechanical switches are definitely quieter than the buckling springs,


That is not always true. My SMK 85 is the loudest keyboard I've ever used, it's noticeably  louder than my Model M.

Offline Bluemercury

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 29 November 2007, 09:19:34 »
Whats the difference between mechanical swtiches and capacitive ones?
Collection:
Das Keyboard II
Model M5-2
Model M5-1(considering selling this one)
Cherry G80-3000LCMPO with black switches
Cherry G80-5000HAMPO (Brown switches)
McAlly96
HHKP2 BNx2

Offline iMav

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 29 November 2007, 12:32:31 »
Quote from: Bluemercury
Whats the difference between mechanical swtiches and capacitive ones?

Capacitive
Mechanical

:)

Offline Bluemercury

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 29 November 2007, 12:41:47 »
Quote from: iMav
Quote from: Bluemercury
Whats the difference between mechanical swtiches and capacitive ones?

Capacitive
Mechanical

:)


So the "clicky" feel is only usually present in buckling spring and mechanical switches right?
Collection:
Das Keyboard II
Model M5-2
Model M5-1(considering selling this one)
Cherry G80-3000LCMPO with black switches
Cherry G80-5000HAMPO (Brown switches)
McAlly96
HHKP2 BNx2

Offline iMav

  • geekhack creator/founder
  • Location: Valley City, ND
  • "Τα εργαλεία σας είναι σημαντικά."
Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 29 November 2007, 14:01:04 »
Quote from: Bluemercury
So the "clicky" feel is only usually present in buckling spring and mechanical switches right?

correct

Offline Bluemercury

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 29 November 2007, 15:59:15 »
Quote from: iMav
Quote from: Bluemercury
So the "clicky" feel is only usually present in buckling spring and mechanical switches right?

correct


i think i have to buy one of the mechanical switch keyboard then, what are the best keyboards with mechanical switches ? Now that i think, i used to have one keyboard from BTC that had a clicky feel but was different from my Model M keyboards.......
Collection:
Das Keyboard II
Model M5-2
Model M5-1(considering selling this one)
Cherry G80-3000LCMPO with black switches
Cherry G80-5000HAMPO (Brown switches)
McAlly96
HHKP2 BNx2

Offline xsphat

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 29 November 2007, 17:52:27 »
Everyone has a different preference with mechanicals, so it really isn't fair to say what the best is. That is why everyone here has several keyboards in their rotation. Here is a guidepost for you:

I think almost everyone here has an HHKB Pro, a Model M and then another type of switch that they really like, like the fabled Cherry blues and the Alps sliders.

I am typing on my HHKB Pro 2 right now, in the hospital. Yes, keyboards mean so much to me I brought this one to the birth of my child. My excuse to the mother was that I could email pictures and document the entire thing, which I am really glad I'm doing, but in all truth, the MacBook keyboard would have done fine, but I decided to pack my way-overpriced but totally awesome keyboard anyway.

At home, the Alps in the SMK 85 are what I use. That's it, but I haven't tried any of the tactile Cherry models, so I'm looking for a 'board with them now (I don't want the iOne M10 because they are so common), and I want to get another brand new keyboard with Alps because they are rare.

You see why that is an impossible question to answer? Just buy and try, eBay the ones that you don't like (or sell them here).

Offline Bluemercury

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 29 November 2007, 18:29:30 »
Quote from: xsphat
Everyone has a different preference with mechanicals, so it really isn't fair to say what the best is. That is why everyone here has several keyboards in their rotation. Here is a guidepost for you:

I think almost everyone here has an HHKB Pro, a Model M and then another type of switch that they really like, like the fabled Cherry blues and the Alps sliders.

I am typing on my HHKB Pro 2 right now, in the hospital. Yes, keyboards mean so much to me I brought this one to the birth of my child. My excuse to the mother was that I could email pictures and document the entire thing, which I am really glad I'm doing, but in all truth, the MacBook keyboard would have done fine, but I decided to pack my way-overpriced but totally awesome keyboard anyway.

At home, the Alps in the SMK 85 are what I use. That's it, but I haven't tried any of the tactile Cherry models, so I'm looking for a 'board with them now (I don't want the iOne M10 because they are so common), and I want to get another brand new keyboard with Alps because they are rare.

You see why that is an impossible question to answer? Just buy and try, eBay the ones that you don't like (or sell them here).



I see, which company makes the HHKB pro 2?is it expensive?The alps is a type of switches right?I only knew the model M keyboards as the ony "clicky" ones, but i see that theres some more. how's the alps switches one's? i need to try getting one of those switch keyboards. Any sugestions, i already have two model m keyboards, even if both are from the model M5 family, its interesting that they feel a tad different.
Collection:
Das Keyboard II
Model M5-2
Model M5-1(considering selling this one)
Cherry G80-3000LCMPO with black switches
Cherry G80-5000HAMPO (Brown switches)
McAlly96
HHKP2 BNx2

Offline xsphat

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 29 November 2007, 19:15:14 »
OK, the switch is refering to the mechanical switches in the keyboards. They are made by companies like Cherry and Alps. They are both mechanical switches, but they are different in many ways, so they all feel different. If you buy a Das II keyboard, that one is manufactured by Cherry, but the iOne M10 buys switches from Cherry and has their manufacturer drop them in. The same is true of all Alps keyboards. My Apple keyboards with Alps sliders from 20 years ago used the Alps switches, but god knows who made them. My SMK 85 which I so adore was manufactured by DS International.

What this all says is that you should search for mechanical switch keyboards and see what comes up. Find something you like and email a rep and ask them what specific switches they use. Then you come back here and look at what people are saying about it, then decide if it is something you want to try.

Mechanical keyboards start at about $50 American and go to unbelievable heights after that. The HHKB Pros we bought cost us anywhere from $200 to $300 plus with shipping, but we all love them and it's not because we all got burned on them - they are great keyboards. They are made by PFU, but that doesn't matter. They do not like these being shipped over here, I got an email back from them that said, and I quote, "This is strictly a product of Japan." Find other vendors like BeNippon or GeekStuff4U.

The iOne M10 can be picked up on eBay for around $50 with shipping, and it uses the Cherry switches with blue sliders.

Also for about $50 on eBay, you can get an SMK85 like the one I love with genuine Alps sliders.

And use this forum; click every link and read every post, there is a great wealth of info here because this site draws people like us exclusively.

That should be enough info to give you a good start in your research.

Offline Bluemercury

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 29 November 2007, 22:02:17 »
Quote from: xsphat
OK, the switch is refering to the mechanical switches in the keyboards. They are made by companies like Cherry and Alps. They are both mechanical switches, but they are different in many ways, so they all feel different. If you buy a Das II keyboard, that one is manufactured by Cherry, but the iOne M10 buys switches from Cherry and has their manufacturer drop them in. The same is true of all Alps keyboards. My Apple keyboards with Alps sliders from 20 years ago used the Alps switches, but god knows who made them. My SMK 85 which I so adore was manufactured by DS International.

What this all says is that you should search for mechanical switch keyboards and see what comes up. Find something you like and email a rep and ask them what specific switches they use. Then you come back here and look at what people are saying about it, then decide if it is something you want to try.

Mechanical keyboards start at about $50 American and go to unbelievable heights after that. The HHKB Pros we bought cost us anywhere from $200 to $300 plus with shipping, but we all love them and it's not because we all got burned on them - they are great keyboards. They are made by PFU, but that doesn't matter. They do not like these being shipped over here, I got an email back from them that said, and I quote, "This is strictly a product of Japan." Find other vendors like BeNippon or GeekStuff4U.

The iOne M10 can be picked up on eBay for around $50 with shipping, and it uses the Cherry switches with blue sliders.

Also for about $50 on eBay, you can get an SMK85 like the one I love with genuine Alps sliders.

And use this forum; click every link and read every post, there is a great wealth of info here because this site draws people like us exclusively.

That should be enough info to give you a good start in your research.



Thanks really for all the explaining, the ione m10 and the Das II keyboard are identical but the later is much expensive, i wonder if there's shops with this in Europe because we have some keys in different positions, but i do find interesting the no "key symbol" of the Das II Keyboard.
Collection:
Das Keyboard II
Model M5-2
Model M5-1(considering selling this one)
Cherry G80-3000LCMPO with black switches
Cherry G80-5000HAMPO (Brown switches)
McAlly96
HHKP2 BNx2

Offline mr_sf_applet

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 29 November 2007, 22:15:11 »
Quote from: Bluemercury
Thanks really for all the explaining, the ione m10 and the Das II keyboard are identical but the later is much expensive, i wonder if there's shops with this in Europe because we have some keys in different positions, but i do find interesting the no "key symbol" of the Das II Keyboard.

I wouldn't say they're identical. They both use blue Cherry MX switches (clicky and tactile), but that doesn't mean that they might not  have  some differences between them, in terms of key layout, build quality, materials, etc.

Offline Bluemercury

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 29 November 2007, 22:26:59 »
Quote from: mr_sf_applet
Quote from: Bluemercury
Thanks really for all the explaining, the ione m10 and the Das II keyboard are identical but the later is much expensive, i wonder if there's shops with this in Europe because we have some keys in different positions, but i do find interesting the no "key symbol" of the Das II Keyboard.

I wouldn't say they're identical. They both use blue Cherry MX switches (clicky and tactile), but that doesn't mean that they might not  have  some differences between them, in terms of key layout, build quality, materials, etc.


Yes i see that at the wiki site the mechanical switches are identified by color and tactile feed back:

Alps slider switches:

Audible click feel (blue or white-colored sliders)
Tactile feel (cream, orange, black, or pink-colored sliders)
Linear feel (yellow, green, or gray-colored sliders)


Cherry keyswitches:

Tactile feel (blue-colored stems)
Light tactile feel (brown-colored stems)
Linear feel (black-colored stems)

Are the alps switches still being made? Also i assume the tactile feel is the louder or more clicky soundier?
Collection:
Das Keyboard II
Model M5-2
Model M5-1(considering selling this one)
Cherry G80-3000LCMPO with black switches
Cherry G80-5000HAMPO (Brown switches)
McAlly96
HHKP2 BNx2

Offline xsphat

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 29 November 2007, 22:34:32 »
Tactile speaks of the feedback the switch give to indicate the stroke has been completed and the keys tend to follow the fingers back up better. The click is just a style of switch.

And for the record, my black Alps switches are clicky, so the wiki has that one wrong.

Offline Bluemercury

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 29 November 2007, 22:43:09 »
Quote from: xsphat
Tactile speaks of the feedback the switch give to indicate the stroke has been completed and the keys tend to follow the fingers back up better. The click is just a style of switch.

And for the record, my black Alps switches are clicky, so the wiki has that one wrong.


I liked that review of the smk-85 , too bad there isnt a regular size version.
Collection:
Das Keyboard II
Model M5-2
Model M5-1(considering selling this one)
Cherry G80-3000LCMPO with black switches
Cherry G80-5000HAMPO (Brown switches)
McAlly96
HHKP2 BNx2

Offline fkeidjn

  • Posts: 237
Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 30 November 2007, 23:44:15 »
Quote from: xsphat
Tactile speaks of the feedback the switch give to indicate the stroke has been completed and the keys tend to follow the fingers back up better. The click is just a style of switch.

And for the record, my black Alps switches are clicky, so the wiki has that one wrong.


I have an old Dell keyboard that uses black on black Alps switches.  I do hear audible feedback, but not an actual click, as one would hear from white and black Alps.
Kinesis Keypad - Filco FKBN104M/EB - Unitek space-saver - Acer 6511-TW - Apple Extended II (M3501) - Scorpius M10 - Cherry G80-1800, AT - SGI Granite - vintage Fujitsu - IBM Model M, 101 and mini - Model F, 84-key AT - Dell AT101W - Northgate 101

Offline xsphat

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 01 December 2007, 01:22:52 »
I have a feeling that the color coding on Alps keyboards isn't consistent when comparing the old models with the news ones.

Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 01 December 2007, 02:06:57 »
Quote from: xsphat
I have a feeling that the color coding on Alps keyboards isn't consistent when comparing the old models with the news ones.


Ditto that. My Northgate has white Alps and they are very clicky.

Offline mr_sf_applet

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 01 December 2007, 02:43:09 »
Anybody know why old keyboards with blue Alps sliders command a sizable premium on eBay?

Offline fkeidjn

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 01 December 2007, 14:17:06 »
Quote from: mr_sf_applet
Anybody know why old keyboards with blue Alps sliders command a sizable premium on eBay?


They're rarer than the white Alps.
Kinesis Keypad - Filco FKBN104M/EB - Unitek space-saver - Acer 6511-TW - Apple Extended II (M3501) - Scorpius M10 - Cherry G80-1800, AT - SGI Granite - vintage Fujitsu - IBM Model M, 101 and mini - Model F, 84-key AT - Dell AT101W - Northgate 101

Offline mr_sf_applet

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 01 December 2007, 15:24:07 »
Quote from: fkeidjn
Quote from: mr_sf_applet
Anybody know why old keyboards with blue Alps sliders command a sizable premium on eBay?


They're rarer than the white Alps.

Well yeah, but are they different in key action or feel? There was a Focus board with blue Alps sliders that sold for over $500 yesterday. It looked identical to the Focus FK102 at http://northgate-keyboard-repair.com/

Offline fkeidjn

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 02 December 2007, 02:54:00 »
There's not much of a difference, only the color.  I saw that ebay auction too.  Apparently, a guy from Japan through a commissioner found that keyboard to be rare.  There's the Suntouch keyboard with blue Alps as well.
Kinesis Keypad - Filco FKBN104M/EB - Unitek space-saver - Acer 6511-TW - Apple Extended II (M3501) - Scorpius M10 - Cherry G80-1800, AT - SGI Granite - vintage Fujitsu - IBM Model M, 101 and mini - Model F, 84-key AT - Dell AT101W - Northgate 101

Offline xsphat

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 02 December 2007, 07:01:03 »
whats next? blue springed model Ms?

Offline mdf

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Enhanced Quiet Touch vs Buckling Spring
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 12 December 2007, 12:56:13 »
Well I got the enhanced quiet touch, and its not so great, its mushy just like a normal keyboard.  It does seem to take a bit more force to press the keys, but the result is the mush and bottoming out each time.  

I got a Scorpius M10 to replace it, and it is much nicer.  Its a lighter touch than the model M, so its takes some getting used to, but after using it for a week I really like it.  Once you get a feel for the lighter keys and their very crisp break its fine.  If anything is seems like I can type a little faster with it.

Its quieter than the M, but still makes more noise than a normal keyboard.  Its enough of a difference that its not grating on me after half hour or so of typing, and no one is complaining when I have them on speaker phone now.