Author Topic: Laser mice not meant for gaming?  (Read 16794 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Whiskey in the Jar-o

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 348

Offline fkeidjn

  • Posts: 237
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 10 December 2007, 23:31:21 »
Well, I'm not a gamer, but I would like a good precision mouse  :D

But anyways, I don't want to spend too much time reading the articles.  Do you have a summary?
Kinesis Keypad - Filco FKBN104M/EB - Unitek space-saver - Acer 6511-TW - Apple Extended II (M3501) - Scorpius M10 - Cherry G80-1800, AT - SGI Granite - vintage Fujitsu - IBM Model M, 101 and mini - Model F, 84-key AT - Dell AT101W - Northgate 101

Offline xsphat

  • Posts: 2371
  • Location: 'Sconi FTW
  • Enlightened
    • Dan Newman, Writer
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 10 December 2007, 23:40:18 »
I have a Razer Copperhead. I hear those work with some games ...

Offline Whiskey in the Jar-o

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 348
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 11 December 2007, 00:21:29 »
I'm not a gamer myself, but I did find the article interesting. To sum it up:


* Super DPI is bogus.
* Optical mice still rule for gaming. Most pros still using old MS intellimouse models.
* The only advantage of laser mice is that you can use them wihout a mousepad. But their tracking is inferior.
* Mice should be driverless.  The Ikari mouse has an LCD underneath, so that you can set it up.
* Pros use 2 DPI settings at most in a game and just want to be able to toggle between them. Unlike other mice, which allow you to change DPI in steps of 400, theirs can change DPI in steps of 1. So you can tweak your mouse without any software, plug it in and go.
* Optical (and laser?) mice have always had motion correction algorithms. When you draw a straight line on the screen, it'd be actually full of squiggles were it not for the mouse correcting your movement. This is good otherwise, but affects the aim of the pros. The Ikari can switch it off.
* Variable weights are BS. The pros want the lightest mouse possible.
* Most gaming mice are designed by marketoids and have no value to gamers. Pros don't use them.
* LEDs, dozens of buttons, gold-plated connectors are all BS and don't help.
* They do have a laser mouse that uses much more simplified imaging algorithms. It tracks much better for gaming.

I think that covers it.

Offline karlito

  • Posts: 157
    • http://altitudegame.com
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 11 December 2007, 10:46:21 »
i pretty much agree. I switched from an Logitech MX510 (optical) to a Logitech G5 (laser) and they do feel different even though both are running at "800 dpi".  But the G5 has teflon pads so it's easier to slide around so I like it better.

I just might have to pick up that Ikari as my mouse collection rivals some of your guys' keyboard collections.

Offline Whiskey in the Jar-o

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 348
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 25 December 2007, 01:50:19 »

Offline iMav

  • geekhack creator/founder
  • Location: Valley City, ND
  • "Τα εργαλεία σας είναι σημαντικά."
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 25 December 2007, 07:55:26 »
Quote from: Whiskey in the Jar-o;2097
Surpisingly good review of the Ikari.
As I don't consider myself a "gamer", most of the features of this mouse are lost on me.  However, it does appear a lot of thought went into the design of this mouse.

One thing is for sure...reading that article clued me in to just how out of it I am in regards to current mousing technology.  Heavy, free-spinning scroll wheels?  Tilting scroll wheels?  Back and forward buttons?

People spend WAY too much time with their hands off the keyboard.  :)

Offline karlito

  • Posts: 157
    • http://altitudegame.com
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 25 December 2007, 15:39:06 »
well i guess i know what im spending my christmas money on :).  The shape looks a lot like the logitech mice i love so much and that's the only thing that concerns me is how well it fits my hand.

Offline Therac-25

  • Posts: 84
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 30 December 2008, 11:13:00 »
That looks hot.  Especially the ability to turn off the interpolation.

My Logitech mouse needs to have an accident.
das keyboard model s professional
HyperX Alloy FPS Pro Tenkeyless Blue
Model M Mini

Offline Therac-25

  • Posts: 84
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 30 December 2008, 12:38:16 »
Quote
You've successfully placed your order with NCIX.com -- please print (or save) this page for your records. You will be receiving a copy of this page by e-mail shortly. When contacting us regarding this order, please use this Order Number as a reference:

Dammit you guys.
das keyboard model s professional
HyperX Alloy FPS Pro Tenkeyless Blue
Model M Mini

Offline lam47

  • Posts: 688
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 30 December 2008, 12:56:50 »
To fully disable all acceleration in vista you have to run a registry fix.
Although the Ikari does tone it down a lot.

There is a lot of setup info here.

http://www.overclock.net/computer-peripherals/173255-cs-s-mouse-optimization-guide.html

I have most of this stuff implemented for games.
Im no pro just super fussy.
Same with keyboards. I hate when I have a few keys that feel ever so slightly different to the rest.

Anyway the Ikari is very nice.
Its the only mouse I have ever just put my hand on at it feel just right. No fuss or adjustment period. I love the Ikari.
I have the laser one in Pink :)
Keyboards. Happy Hacking pro 2 x2. One white one black. IBM model M US layout. SGI silicone Graphics with rubber dampened ALPS. IBM model F. ALPS apple board, I forget what it is. And some more I forget what I have.

Typewriters. Olivetti Valentine. Imperial Good Companion Model T. Olympia SM3

Offline Therac-25

  • Posts: 84
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 30 December 2008, 13:52:58 »
Well, I'm on Linux (have some WoW, ETQW and a few other things going).  I've been gaming in Linux since shareware Doom...

Anyway, the mouse driver situation has historically been an absolute and complete mess.  The new evdrv module in Xorg has promise, but it's incompatible with some SDL games.

I don't even know what the state of disabling acceleration on the evdrv is.
das keyboard model s professional
HyperX Alloy FPS Pro Tenkeyless Blue
Model M Mini

Offline FKSSR

  • Posts: 529
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 18 February 2009, 10:42:40 »
Thanks for posting this.  I know it's older, but I didn't know some of that stuff.

I just bought a Razer Salmosa mouse that I like the shape and feel of.  The Ikari looks a little big for my tastes, but I haven't tried it out, so I may be wrong.

I'm not a big FPS player (more RTS) and definitely not a pro, so the Razer will be just fine for me.  I did go back and check some its specs, though, to see how well it fit with the info in the articles. ;)
Add me on Steam | Twitter

Offline Eclairz

  • Posts: 308
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 18 February 2009, 18:18:21 »
I have used many mice
Currently i use the Razer Death Adder (LED) and the Microsoft Habu (Laser), they both work well in games and i can attach a button to each to toggle between speeds.

What I don't understand is the argument against laser mice.

Reasons why pros use LED mice maybe is due to the style of gaming they grew up with and also to do with large movements of the mouse to create more precise in game movements. Some pros get mouse mats half a metre in width sometimes. Pros also usually tell each other why their gaming style is ideal and they often flock together even if it is not the best option.

I remember when ball mice used to be PRO and LED mice were bad mice because you couldn't spin the ball to turn around fast enough or when you couldn't lift the mouse in case your mouse didn't work properly. Now look here do pros still use ball mice? If they do Razer no longer make the original boomslang which was all the rage in yesteryear.

Low sensitivity mice seem to represent the pros you believe are that great I assume they are fairly low sensitivity mice considering the MS explorer 3.0 mouse with the LED I used to own maxed out at about 1200 dpi. So I guess thats all they need? wrong, I used to own that mouse and it was definitely good for its time, but the reason its so  good is not because it relies on LED technology and track smoothly cos it was never designed for fast operation(above 1200dpi) in the first place, but the actual reason is gamers like people get attached to their input devices just like this forum is attached to their keyboards. It is the sole way to interact with the system like how they can grip the mouse and able to predict the behavior of the mouse at different settings. These are good reasons for people to continue to buy them but for new buyers like us we are not constricted to their criteria of mice.

There are good laser mice I owned a logitech mx1000, razer copperhead and microsoft habu, they are all good mice. MX1000 was one of the original laser mice and it tracked fine for the games I used. The main advantage of laser mice is the ability to take more accurate pictures and therefore beable to track more accurately, the disadvantage is that because the pictures are just so accurate you are not really allowed to remove the mouse from the mouse mat because if you do the mouse needs to re-calibrate because it is just too accurate.

The reason for this is because laser light does not refract so much and therefore gives a less blury picture. The reason LED mice dont have this problem is because they are initially blurry to begin with and also better software to handle the issue, ball mice don't have the problem because they rely on traction so in my opinion if you lift the mouse from the table ball mice Should be the optimum, but it isn't because people are lazy to clean the mouse every damn day and we're lazy loving people aren't we all.

Because laser mice are so accurate though they can have much higher dpi since they can take more accurate photos of your table/mouse mat, of course for small monitors the increase in speed will make your mouse wildly uncontrollable unless you've been drinking all those caffinated drinks those pros drink and are now in zombie gamer mode with super controllable arms.

There is a real limit to what people can use in certain games, but also it depends on the monitor's resolution and the movements the player is expected to make throughout the game, with a game that requires large movements, then a high dpi mouse is much more efficient as you move your hand less, with a twitch game like counterstrike reducing your twitch to a longer movement using a slow mouse will actually improve your accuracy. High resolution desktops take advantage of fast mice because the resolutions are so high now it would take a long time to move from one side of the screen to another without lifting your mouse.

You could consider the way cars were improved by reducing the amount of work the driver did by adding power steering, although power steering reduced the amount of feel between tyres and steering wheel it reduced the amount of work needed. However cars without powersteering are often more accurate as well due to the direct link between the steering wheel and the axles. Racing drivers of old used to believe that non-powersteering was the way to go in order to improve the way a user could handle their car, but as time grew on more new technologies which allowed more forcefeedback while still maintaining useful powersteering to aid the driver in parking and also different levels of power steering.

The same thing is happening with mice, but because LED mice are 'good enough' adoption is slower just like why blu ray uptake is slower than dvd because we know its better but is it really necessary? The question has been asked many times over throughout history and if theres one thing its that it ain't necessary now but it will be in the future. How far into the future no one really knows. Laser mice are the same in that they will eventually find their way into gamers hands and people will tune themselves to take full advantage of it just like they tuned themeselves to learn how to reduce the disadvantages of LED mice vs ball mice.

Laser mice in my opinion have been very good for twitch gamers where a fast mouse reduces the amount of movement you need to do with your mouse. But they often track worse when you slow the mouse down, although I have heard that the logitech G5 tracks well slowly and that mouse has been out for over 2+ years I believe. Some gamers will not be able to tune themselves and as laser mice become cheaper and the technologies improved the led mice pro people will find themselves in the shoes of ball mice, looking down the barrel of ever dwindling mouse sellers.

To be honest you can improve your current mouse by getting a better mouse matt, cloth mouse matts are better for slow dpi mousers since they give extra tactility while being more smoother generally. While twitch gamers should use silky smooth teflon metal, plastic or other hard fast mats as they allow the mouse to glide effortlessly. These mats will often improve the performance of the mouse and maybe hold you off from buying a new mouse and depending on your preference that might be the best option

I've written so damn much I know i'm now an input device crazy guy. The most unfortunate thing that has come out from all this mouse comparing is that the keyboard has become neglected. Few gaming keyboards are coming out which are made from high quality cherry, alps or topre keyswitches in the world. Maybe because the keyboard is 'good enough' that uptake has reduced and that the new generation has never typed on what we geekhackers call a good keyboard.

Anyway I'm signing off, i've wasted enough time now hehe
Lenovo ThinkPad TrackPoint Keyboard
RealForce 45g UK 88UB
FILCO Majestouch TenKeyPad

Offline karlito

  • Posts: 157
    • http://altitudegame.com
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 18 February 2009, 20:17:56 »
i'm a gamer (fps rts etc...)

Here's my opinion:

Logitech G5 7 button (blue version)
awesome tracking
middle scroll wheel sucks hard
could use some more teflon pads on the bottom tends to drag
awesome fit for my hand

Ikari Optical
tracking sucks compare to G5. it just seem sluggish
all buttons are near perfect
scroll wheel/back/front buttons do not work in some programs - there are NO drivers for this mouse... it's weird o_O
mouse size is a little big for my tastes
glides super smoothly plenty of teflon awesomeness

Offline pby

  • Posts: 27
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 05 March 2009, 18:39:12 »
Quote from: karlito;22086
i'm a gamer (fps rts etc...)

Here's my opinion:

Logitech G5 7 button (blue version)
awesome tracking
middle scroll wheel sucks hard
could use some more teflon pads on the bottom tends to drag
awesome fit for my hand

Ikari Optical
tracking sucks compare to G5. it just seem sluggish
all buttons are near perfect
scroll wheel/back/front buttons do not work in some programs - there are NO drivers for this mouse... it's weird o_O
mouse size is a little big for my tastes
glides super smoothly plenty of teflon awesomeness

have you tried the ikari laser? there are a few complains about the tracking and lifting heigh on the optical but the laser is a different beast.

and whats wrong with being plug-n-play! your profile is saved on the mouse!

Offline karlito

  • Posts: 157
    • http://altitudegame.com
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 05 March 2009, 20:29:30 »
Quote from: pby;23652
have you tried the ikari laser? there are a few complains about the tracking and lifting heigh on the optical but the laser is a different beast.

and whats wrong with being plug-n-play! your profile is saved on the mouse!

I have not tried the laser but I really want to.

their claim of plug and play for the ikari is marketing BS.

There's this "Mouse Properties" dialog in Windows that you will have to configure.  The "enhance pointer precision" check box completely destroys the ikari optical and then the pointer speed slider is total crap.

With the Ikari optical you get 400, 800 and 1600 DPI.  800 is too slow and the pointer speed slider in windows one notch goes from too slow to mach 1.
1600 is too fast and since the pointer speed slider sux so bad it suffers the same draw back.

I think what ever Windows (XP) does that logitech drivers overwrite is absolutely necessary. Every time i reinstall windows my mouse feels broken until i install logitech drivers... With the Ikari optical my mouse just feels broken.

Offline pex

  • Posts: 145
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 06 March 2009, 00:30:37 »
Quote
dozens of buttons [...] are [...] BS and don't help.


Lol...what kind of pros can't make use of more buttons?
Ж®Cherry G80-8113 (someday I hope to have one that reads magstripes, rfid cards, and smartcards), broken \'98 42H1292 Model M, some other Model M from a decade before that, 30 more keyboards in a box, 4 more lying here or there
Destroying Sanctity: my Model M project. Status: Dead.

Offline FKSSR

  • Posts: 529
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 06 March 2009, 12:58:10 »
I just bought a Logitech G9, but I haven't had a chance to use it.  I am curious at how I'll be able to change the DPI on the fly or use some of the extra buttons.  It is more to think about, at first, but if you learn it, I imagine it will become second nature and can be a truly powerful tool.

Based on the fact that so many pros use the MS Intellimouse that has no special features, I think that a lot of pros would say they don't need the extra buttons.
Add me on Steam | Twitter

Offline hotswank

  • Posts: 33
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 09 March 2009, 12:53:34 »
Quote from: FKSSR;23739
...I am curious at how I'll be able to change the DPI on the fly or use some of the extra buttons...


It works flawlessly, but beware both SetPoint 5.0 and new 5.1 both have different issues which hopefully will be addressed in near future. It took over 13 months before Logitech updated SetPoint 5.0...

http://forums.logitech.com/logitech/board/message?board.id=gseriesmice&thread.id=921
http://forums.logitech.com/logitech/board/message?board.id=software_mice&message.id=7063

Offline Hak Foo

  • Posts: 1272
  • Make America Clicky Again!
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 10 March 2009, 00:58:16 »
I read through that entire rant from the SteelSeries company in the original post's link, and what I found fascinating was no mention whatsoever of shape and finish.

What I liked about the Logitech G5 I tried wasn't the weight cartridges or the laser sensor. It was that it has an excellent shape with a place for a thumb, which the $5 mice lacked, and of an pleasing-to-hold finish (smooth and rubberized parts, instead of the typical electronics pebble-finish)

However, being a cheap b*******, I went for a MX400 (cheaper, but similar appealing features)
Overton130, Box Pale Blues.

Offline Eclairz

  • Posts: 308
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 10 March 2009, 04:53:33 »
Shape is very subjective to be honest everyone has their likes and dislikes, from palm laying over MS intellimouse, Logitech style sculpted areas to get the whole hand, and then the fingertip controlling Razer mice.

I've used all three, i find the logitech is the most comfortable for browsing, microsoft is a good all round shape and razer is for more precise control when speeding around but tiring for browsing since your hand doesn't fall on the mouse as such.

I haven't tried these sideways mice which are supposed to be ergonomic but for gaming? and the g9 does not looks ergonomic to me but then i haven't tried it. The Ikari looks like an even more sculpted version of the logitech series.

Mouse weights for gaming do matter in that you want to contain the momentum of the mouse, but in my opinion the best way to improve a mouse is a really good mouse mat and maybe some slick teflon feet for the mice, gliding smoothly and an easy to read surface will always improve tracking.
Lenovo ThinkPad TrackPoint Keyboard
RealForce 45g UK 88UB
FILCO Majestouch TenKeyPad

Offline MANISH7

  • Posts: 155
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 10 March 2009, 16:29:46 »
Laser technology vis-a-vis computer mouse is still in development whereas LED technology has been fully exploited. The result, for now, is that laser mice are not suited for fast movements or else they will skip pixels. This is why slow sensitivity gamers don't like laser mice. Optical mice don't have that issue. I know this first hand because I play COD4 and have a G5 and a MX518. I had actually purchased the G5 first when a newbie to fps because I thought laser = newer = better. Now the G5 is eating dust in my closet.

Have a look at this benchmark.

http://www.esreality.com/?a=post&id=1265679

They'll tell you at what speeds mice start to skip. The G5 retains perfect tracking up to 1.2 m/s whereas the MX518 can handle 4.0 + m/s. Who will actually go beyond 1.2 m /s? Not your average user. That's why it's not a problem for most people but it is for pro gamers who use ultra low sensitivity. As long as you take 12 inches or less to do a 360 turn in the game, laser should be fine.

Laser is not necessarily more accurate than LED. I don't notice a difference in tracking between my G5 & MX518 when both are moved at moderate speeds. If you see a difference between two mice it isn't necessarily because of the optical technology but the quality of the sensor itself.

The Ikari did not feel right in my hands so I didn't buy it. YMMV. However, I do like their *idea* in the shape to provide support for ring & pinky. That was the only reason why I looked into it. I'm sure it works for most people but I guess the shape was not implemented like the way my ring finger wanted. On the other hand, the Logitech MX600 fit my hand well but it was as heavy as a brick for gaming and I prefer wired mice. I have yet to find the perfect mouse for me. I guess I'm picky. The perfect mouse would have the shape of the MX600, wired, as light as possible, and then have the standard whistles found in the Ikari, G5, etc.

The most important thing is for you to try the mouse in person and see which feels most comfortable in the hands. It's a personal fit.

Some have talked about DPI. Highest DPI doesn't necessarily mean most accuracy. In my case, 400 DPI is more than enough. How much DPI you need depends on your (1) resolution and (2) sensitivity preference. In my case, I like to be able to do a 360 turn by moving the mouse 24 inches. My resolution is 800 x 600 to play COD4. I'm a light gamer and my laptop was really just for e-mail / web / MS office. So 800 * 4 = 3200 pixels to move in a 360. 3200 pixels / 24 inches = 133 dots per inch. Provided that the in game sensitiviy is set to 1:1 (meaning the mouse sensitivity is not altered by the in game program), I only need a 133 DPI. Now if the mouse was only 100 DPI then some pixels would skip. Admittedly, my example is extreme so let's try another one. 1920 x 1200, 4 inches to do a 360. 1920 x 4 / 4 inches = 1920 dots per inch. Now in this case, you're going to need 2000 DPI mouse. So those 3000 DPI or 4000 DPI mice you see are a waste. IMO.

Offline wheel83

  • Posts: 189
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 10 March 2009, 16:47:56 »
have you tried MS intellimouse explorer 3.0 ?  It is my favorite mouse, even though I have to buy a new one about every 10 months because they break.  But $30 aint so bad for a new mouse.
I <3 BS

Offline karlito

  • Posts: 157
    • http://altitudegame.com
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 10 March 2009, 20:02:59 »
Quote from: MANISH7;24064
Some have talked about DPI. Highest DPI doesn't necessarily mean most accuracy. In my case, 400 DPI is more than enough. How much DPI you need depends on your (1) resolution and (2) sensitivity preference. In my case, I like to be able to do a 360 turn by moving the mouse 24 inches. My resolution is 800 x 600 to play COD4. I'm a light gamer and my laptop was really just for e-mail / web / MS office. So 800 * 4 = 3200 pixels to move in a 360. 3200 pixels / 24 inches = 133 dots per inch. Provided that the in game sensitiviy is set to 1:1 (meaning the mouse sensitivity is not altered by the in game program), I only need a 133 DPI. Now if the mouse was only 100 DPI then some pixels would skip. Admittedly, my example is extreme so let's try another one. 1920 x 1200, 4 inches to do a 360. 1920 x 4 / 4 inches = 1920 dots per inch. Now in this case, you're going to need 2000 DPI mouse. So those 3000 DPI or 4000 DPI mice you see are a waste. IMO.

:O!?!  What the heck, I'm running my Ikari optical at 1600DPI and 2.8 sensitivity in CSS O_o your DPI is madness.

Offline FKSSR

  • Posts: 529
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 11 March 2009, 10:19:17 »
I've been thinking about buying an Intellimouse, but it may just get general use, because I'm happy with my G9 and Salmosa.
Add me on Steam | Twitter

Offline MANISH7

  • Posts: 155
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 11 March 2009, 11:10:52 »
Quote from: karlito;24077
:O!?!  What the heck, I'm running my Ikari optical at 1600DPI and 2.8 sensitivity in CSS O_o your DPI is madness.


Aim is just incredible with my low sensitivity. Truth is you don't need such a low sensitivity but it's a lot of fun for me to have such precise control. I get to dictate every centimeter of movement and that just feels more real.

The benefit of having a high sensitivity like yours is less exertion from the arms or hands which is more ergonomic. To compensate, I cap my playing to 30 minutes per session.

I started playing at 5.0 sensitivity and 2000 DPI. Now I'm doing 1.4 & 400 DPI. It's amazing how your brain can adapt so well.

Oh, and you're right...it is madness :)

Offline hotswank

  • Posts: 33
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 12 March 2009, 07:57:20 »
Quote from: MANISH7;24104
It's amazing how your brain can adapt so well.

I envy you... My brain can't adapt at all. If there is so much of a 0.2 change in ingame sensitivity, my brain detects it and doesn't feel right. But I can also 'see' the difference between 80Hz and 100Hz on CRT's too...

Offline J888www

  • Posts: 270
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 16 May 2011, 20:06:37 »
Doesn't matter how pretty a mouse you possess, how big the DPI or how long the cable etc etc if your mouse have prediction issues. The only safe bet of a flawless mouse is one with a STMicroelectronics OS MLT 04 sensor in its belly.
Often outspoken, please forgive any cause for offense.
Thank you all in GH for reading.

Keyboards & Pointing Devices :-
[/FONT]One Too Many[/COLOR]

Offline noodles256

  • Posts: 1980
  • le legendary
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 16 May 2011, 22:14:55 »
most popular gaming mouse along with ime 3.0 /1.1
AF | Ducky YOTD |

Offline Bilbin

  • Posts: 166
  • Location: Australia
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 16 May 2011, 23:47:29 »
And the DeathAdder ;)

Can't wait to get my Valor, 3090 sensor is amazing.
Filco Majestouch Tenkeyless Blues - Razer Abyssus - PureTrak Talent

Offline Slarg

  • Posts: 15
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 17 May 2011, 02:53:28 »
I have a G500 and I'm very happy with it. (lots of gaming, mostly FPS)

Offline noodles256

  • Posts: 1980
  • le legendary
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 17 May 2011, 17:40:43 »
i got my orochi and couldn't be happier.

i have big hands but like small mice. just like my women
AF | Ducky YOTD |

Offline J888www

  • Posts: 270
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 18 May 2011, 12:53:07 »
Quote from: ripster;347271
I like the MX518 best.  So do lots of gamers.


There are two versions of this Logitech MX518, the older version had 1600 DPI (which had issues) and the most recent version with 1800DPI. The MX518 had issues of longevity, basically some lasted a few Months before it stop functioning as we would expect. In reply to these complaints from the consumers, Logitech updated the MX518 with a new version which uses a newer-designed sensor engine. To differentiate these two versions, the old have five small skates & transparent base and the new version have three skates (large on front + large on rear and a small on the thumb side, no transparent base).

In comparison with the Razer DeathAdder, I find this MX518 (1800 DPI) seemingly more precise, it also fits the contour of the hand more neatly, although they both track with great accuracy. The DeathAdder have a slightly more "distance" to press before the click-button actuation, which gives a sense of not being totally in control, whereas the MX518 clicks seemingly instant etc etc etc, blah blah blah, da dah dah dah.

In summary to my preferences, I wholeheartedly believe that the Logitech MX518 is at present the best all-round gaming mouse produced to date, it's just perfect in every way.......without being over the top. Off course, those of you with thirteen fingers and three arms may prefer another model of pointing device, but that's to be expected.

.... it's also very good value for money, you can purchase two MX518 for the price of a touted high-end mouse with lots of gimmicks.
Often outspoken, please forgive any cause for offense.
Thank you all in GH for reading.

Keyboards & Pointing Devices :-
[/FONT]One Too Many[/COLOR]

Offline EverythingIBM

  • Posts: 1269
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 18 May 2011, 23:39:09 »
Quote from: J888www;348039
There are two versions of this Logitech MX518, the older version had 1600 DPI (which had issues) and the most recent version with 1800DPI. The MX518 had issues of longevity, basically some lasted a few Months before it stop functioning as we would expect. In reply to these complaints from the consumers, Logitech updated the MX518 with a new version which uses a newer-designed sensor engine. To differentiate these two versions, the old have five small skates & transparent base and the new version have three skates (large on front + large on rear and a small on the thumb side, no transparent base).

In comparison with the Razer DeathAdder, I find this MX518 (1800 DPI) seemingly more precise, it also fits the contour of the hand more neatly, although they both track with great accuracy. The DeathAdder have a slightly more "distance" to press before the click-button actuation, which gives a sense of not being totally in control, whereas the MX518 clicks seemingly instant etc etc etc, blah blah blah, da dah dah dah.

In summary to my preferences, I wholeheartedly believe that the Logitech MX518 is at present the best all-round gaming mouse produced to date, it's just perfect in every way.......without being over the top. Off course, those of you with thirteen fingers and three arms may prefer another model of pointing device, but that's to be expected.

.... it's also very good value for money, you can purchase two MX518 for the price of a touted high-end mouse with lots of gimmicks.

I find some of the older mechanical mice to be good for fine movement: which is why I keep a few nice ones around.

I'm not a big fan of logitech mice. They look ugly, have funny contour, and feel cheap. I dislike anything that has that silver plastic stuff... it's gross and feels weird.
Keyboards: '86 M, M5-2, M13, SSK, F AT, F XT

Offline Arc'xer

  • Posts: 482
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #35 on: Thu, 19 May 2011, 01:52:35 »
Quote from: EverythingIBM;348325
I find some of the older mechanical mice to be good for fine movement

(FYI for some who don't know a rollerball(sometimes mentioned like above a mechanical mouse due to either pure mechanical translation or opto-mechanical encoder) = regular mouse with ball underneath; a trackball = basically an upside down mouse with a ball that is manipulated by the digits)

Shame they don't build rollerball mice with modern sensors. I've read few old-school players who mentioned wingman/boomslang/other ball mouse and the tactile feedback(center of balance etc.etc.) plus the rolling towards enemies rather than outright movement.

Ironic that many companies now a days have to test mousepads for sensors to avoid issues like jitter/jumping/no tracking/LOD and yet by having the ball underneath it can almost entirely eliminate many issues even lift-off distances. In reality mousepads were originally built much like cars to the road; the it's tires on concrete/asphalt not the bare sensor out in the open itself tracking over the pad and having to be tested to see if it performs correctly.

Plus there's a lot of popular mice  which if built with better quality plastics and material would suit many who prefer something they have used rather than an outright radical design using the ball underneath.

Hell I wouldn't even be surprised if some company comes along and researches the size of the ball in consideration to not just size of the mouse shape but sensitivity. Or something far out towards that region.(Like ball size for high sensitivity should be X size because of small movements and whatnot, while low sens ball size should be Y size because of speed or whatever). I wouldn't even be surprised if what I mentioned above mousepads being constructed towards sensors, they turn around and build them to suit the rolling of the ball and the movement of the feet, so the ball can be provided with more tactile feel and whatnot. That way instead of just feeling the mousepad through the feet your also provided with an additional surface area to be provided feedback.

Quote from: EverythingIBM;348325
which is why I keep a few nice ones around.

(Sorta like chimera15 and his franken-trackball lachesis)

You ever tried to frankenmouse or gone further and custom-build your own mechanical with a more modern sensor?

Offline HaveANiceDay

  • Posts: 344
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #36 on: Mon, 23 May 2011, 10:12:44 »
**** ball mice. I'm glad they died!
I hate cleaning those!
Filco Tenkeyless Brown with beige cherry doubleshots (home)
Realforce 86U (work)
Get you own Phantom NAO!

Offline looserboy

  • Posts: 73
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 23 May 2011, 18:17:28 »
this mice feeling is rly as subjective as with keyboards.
how big your hands are, how comfortable the mous feels to your hand. i knew about optical advantages because they arent so underground-dependent, but bought a laser mouse for me anywa, because her shape fits perfectly into my hands, has the right wight for me and feels great ( no productname  :D ). ..
everybody should try and feel mice before buyng them. the ikari wasnt something i would buy. and this whole "laser-mice" dpi and cpi thing is non relevant to me becuae, i am buying products who feel comfortable to me and my usage.

so, its like like with keyboards, every user should buy something what feels best for him and does not seem to be "cool" to others :D

Cherry: G80 MX11900blacks  - G80 MX1800 blacks - G80 MX1502 blacks all cards  - G81 MY 8005 ins. cards - G81 MY 3000 modded to 20g (HowTo)
NMB SPACEINVADER white
Noppo: Choc Pro browns  - Choc Mini reds
IBM: Model F IBM: Model M SSK IBM: Model M

Offline HaveANiceDay

  • Posts: 344
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #38 on: Mon, 23 May 2011, 21:59:24 »
Quote from: looserboy;350431
her shape fits perfectly into my hands

How do you know it's a she-mouse?!
Filco Tenkeyless Brown with beige cherry doubleshots (home)
Realforce 86U (work)
Get you own Phantom NAO!

Offline looserboy

  • Posts: 73
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 24 May 2011, 10:45:35 »
well, as i said before my english isnt that good :D - i m from germany. here a mouse is feminine :-)

Cherry: G80 MX11900blacks  - G80 MX1800 blacks - G80 MX1502 blacks all cards  - G81 MY 8005 ins. cards - G81 MY 3000 modded to 20g (HowTo)
NMB SPACEINVADER white
Noppo: Choc Pro browns  - Choc Mini reds
IBM: Model F IBM: Model M SSK IBM: Model M

Offline HaveANiceDay

  • Posts: 344
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 24 May 2011, 13:19:03 »
Quote from: ripster;350726
Der, Die, Das.

[video=youtube;GTKDM8UzOhA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTKDM8UzOhA[/video]
Filco Tenkeyless Brown with beige cherry doubleshots (home)
Realforce 86U (work)
Get you own Phantom NAO!

Offline looserboy

  • Posts: 73
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 24 May 2011, 22:36:15 »
Quote from: ripster;350726
Der, Die, Das.

Not sure how a Austin TX keyboard made in Taiwan became Das.

its quiet easy :-) das keyboard is correct  in german :-) developed by a guy wich studied in straßburg - german products are known for its quality besides where they are manufactured now :D
a über geek invented it, so i assume this was the reason to call it das keyboard :D

Quote
wiki quote:

"The name uses the German article das (the neuter versions of the in German), thereby simply translating to "The Keyboard".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Keyboard
« Last Edit: Tue, 24 May 2011, 22:55:42 by looserboy »

Cherry: G80 MX11900blacks  - G80 MX1800 blacks - G80 MX1502 blacks all cards  - G81 MY 8005 ins. cards - G81 MY 3000 modded to 20g (HowTo)
NMB SPACEINVADER white
Noppo: Choc Pro browns  - Choc Mini reds
IBM: Model F IBM: Model M SSK IBM: Model M

Offline audioave10

  • Posts: 498
Laser mice not meant for gaming?
« Reply #42 on: Thu, 26 May 2011, 02:31:25 »
Plain old Intellimouse for me.
I mostly play shooters and RPG's.
DECK Legend "Toxic" - SOLD
96 IBM Model M 82G2383- 95 IBM Model M 92G7453 - SOLD
Cherry G80-3000/Blues
new: MechanicalEagle Z77 RGB/Blues