Author Topic: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)  (Read 3554224 times)

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Offline Melvang

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6650 on: Tue, 11 March 2014, 00:32:02 »
Ok I have this AEK II with what I am sure is cream alps.  Hear is the thing though.  I want to convert it to Teensy powered but keep the same plug and connector and what not but it didn't come with a cord.  After a bit of research on wikipedia I have found that the ADB connector is a minidin 4 connector which happens to be the same as an S-Video plug.  Would someone be able to confirm that this is the correct plug.  Part number is MD-40 and to me it looks like the assembly process is as simple as soldering the wires on, and snap the rest of the connector together.

Any help here will be appreciated.  This keyboard will probably be for sale when finished.  Now to find that retrobrite thread.
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Offline yasuo

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6651 on: Tue, 11 March 2014, 01:41:02 »
Is on cherry profile/SP vertical(+) keycap(numpad) include Row 1/2?

thanks:)
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Offline Dreamre

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6652 on: Tue, 11 March 2014, 21:51:36 »
Will a A.87 PCB fit in a KMAC2?

Offline Hordak

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6653 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 03:43:26 »
Why is DSA more popular than DCS or OEM?

Offline LechnerDE

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6654 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 03:53:07 »
Why is DSA more popular than DCS or OEM?

That is not a fact!

It's all about personal preference when it comes to keycap profiles. Each profiles has its own advantages and disadvantages.

Looking at the popularity of GBs I'd rank the profiles as follows:

Cherry > DCS > DSA / SA > OEM

Offline rowdy

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6655 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 04:07:02 »
Why is DSA more popular than DCS or OEM?

The above, plus not many group buys are DSA, so when a DSA GB comes along many people get excited because it is something different.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline Hordak

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6656 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 05:17:32 »
Ok, guess I got a wrong impression then. But then again, for example, most of the GB sets on pimpmykeyboard.com are DSA (3 DSA, 1 DCS, 1 Unknown), or is this just a momentarily situation?

Offline LechnerDE

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6657 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 05:29:11 »
Ok, guess I got a wrong impression then. But then again, for example, most of the GB sets on pimpmykeyboard.com are DSA (3 DSA, 1 DCS, 1 Unknown), or is this just a momentarily situation?

That's a coincidence because they happended to test their new system with Matt3o who is known to favor DSA profile.

If you browse through the GB subforum you will see that many GBs in 2013 were DCS.

Offline Hordak

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6658 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 05:35:37 »
Got it, thanks.

Offline blackbox

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6659 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 08:40:37 »
Doublepost
« Last Edit: Wed, 12 March 2014, 08:43:25 by blackbox »
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Offline blackbox

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6660 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 08:42:37 »
I also need some mx locks!

tin never sent me mine....

Where do I buy MX Lock switches?  I tried ordering from 7bit, but he cancelled the order for them.

http://www.onlinecomponents.com/cherry-electrical-mx1a31nn.html?p=11075424

Pricey as ****, but they claim to have them.

Holy **** $11 for one switch...

I am also looking for mx locks. It looks like they do not have them in stock now
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Offline irendulic

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6661 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 15:54:21 »
Hi everyone,

can someone explain to me what's the deal with super-expensive keycaps? Why are those robot, mummies and similar keycaps so wanted, and why are they so ridiculously expensive?

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6662 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 15:55:12 »
Hi everyone,

can someone explain to me what's the deal with super-expensive keycaps? Why are those robot, mummies and similar keycaps so wanted, and why are they so ridiculously expensive?

It's complicated, but short answer...supply and demand.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6663 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 15:59:33 »
Hi everyone,

can someone explain to me what's the deal with super-expensive keycaps? Why are those robot, mummies and similar keycaps so wanted, and why are they so ridiculously expensive?

That's (more or less) in the FAQ: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40501.0#post_QQQ
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline findingthelimit

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6664 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 16:49:42 »
What's the difference between the RealForce 104u and 104u-DK?
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6665 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 16:50:46 »
What's the difference between the RealForce 104u and 104u-DK?

Keycap and case color.
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6666 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 16:53:07 »
What's the difference between the RealForce 104u and 104u-DK?

Also the 104U is variable weighted according to elitekeyboards website, the 104u-DK has uniform 45g weighted keys.

Offline irendulic

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6667 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 17:00:48 »

That's (more or less) in the FAQ: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40501.0#post_QQQ

Thanks! Wasn't aware those were called ClickClacks :)

Offline findingthelimit

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6668 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 17:13:33 »
What's the difference between the RealForce 104u and 104u-DK?

Also the 104U is variable weighted according to elitekeyboards website, the 104u-DK has uniform 45g weighted keys.

What are the differences in color? i thought 104U is white, and 104UB is black, but i don't know what the -DK at the end stand for.
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Offline Pacifist

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6669 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 17:15:46 »
What's the difference between the RealForce 104u and 104u-DK?

Also the 104U is variable weighted according to elitekeyboards website, the 104u-DK has uniform 45g weighted keys.

What are the differences in color? i thought 104U is white, and 104UB is black, but i don't know what the -DK at the end stand for.

DK is the two color setup

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6670 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 19:34:43 »
What's the difference between the RealForce 104u and 104u-DK?

Also the 104U is variable weighted according to elitekeyboards website, the 104u-DK has uniform 45g weighted keys.

What are the differences in color? i thought 104U is white, and 104UB is black, but i don't know what the -DK at the end stand for.

The DK stands for Ducky, they were the distributor for the board.

Offline ComradeSniper

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6671 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 20:00:50 »
Can anyone identify this funky alps board?



The back has no identifying marks, but it is made of steel.


Offline riotonthebay

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6672 on: Wed, 12 March 2014, 20:11:23 »
Alps layouts crack me up every time :))

Offline stancato9

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6673 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 00:07:42 »
Hey guys. Does anyone know what type of wire you need to make USB to mini USB and USB to micro USB cables? Thanks! :thumb:
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Offline Pacifist

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6674 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 00:08:36 »
Hey guys. Does anyone know what type of wire you need to make USB to mini USB and USB to micro USB cables? Thanks! :thumb:

regular wire

Offline stancato9

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6675 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 00:19:37 »
Hey guys. Does anyone know what type of wire you need to make USB to mini USB and USB to micro USB cables? Thanks! :thumb:

regular wire

Thanks but what is "regular wire?" I know absolutely nothing on this topic and google wasn't much help.
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Offline Pacifist

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6676 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 00:30:02 »
Hey guys. Does anyone know what type of wire you need to make USB to mini USB and USB to micro USB cables? Thanks! :thumb:

regular wire

Thanks but what is "regular wire?" I know absolutely nothing on this topic and google wasn't much help.

Pretty much any old wire that has a thin covering will work. Take an old cable and strip it for wire is the easiest, otherwise you can buy some off of ebay

Offline Melvang

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6677 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 00:36:39 »
Hey guys. Does anyone know what type of wire you need to make USB to mini USB and USB to micro USB cables? Thanks! :thumb:

regular wire

Thanks but what is "regular wire?" I know absolutely nothing on this topic and google wasn't much help.

Pretty much any old wire that has a thin covering will work. Take an old cable and strip it for wire is the easiest, otherwise you can buy some off of ebay

I think what he might be getting at and one that I was wondering is what gauge is normally used for custom cables? 

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Offline Pacifist

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6678 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 00:40:44 »
Hey guys. Does anyone know what type of wire you need to make USB to mini USB and USB to micro USB cables? Thanks! :thumb:

regular wire

Thanks but what is "regular wire?" I know absolutely nothing on this topic and google wasn't much help.

Pretty much any old wire that has a thin covering will work. Take an old cable and strip it for wire is the easiest, otherwise you can buy some off of ebay

I think what he might be getting at and one that I was wondering is what gauge is normally used for custom cables?

Wouldn't it depend on the size of the sleeving?

Offline Melvang

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6679 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 00:45:07 »
Hey guys. Does anyone know what type of wire you need to make USB to mini USB and USB to micro USB cables? Thanks! :thumb:

regular wire

Thanks but what is "regular wire?" I know absolutely nothing on this topic and google wasn't much help.

Pretty much any old wire that has a thin covering will work. Take an old cable and strip it for wire is the easiest, otherwise you can buy some off of ebay

I think what he might be getting at and one that I was wondering is what gauge is normally used for custom cables?

Wouldn't it depend on the size of the sleeving?

Without worrying about sleeving what size works nicely soldering to the connectors?  Don't really need it anyway since you can sleeve the individual wires and braid them.
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Offline ComradeSniper

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6680 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 00:50:46 »
One more alps question: The big ass enter key on one of my alps keyboards keeps getting stuck and no matter what I do I can't fix the problem. It looks like all the stabilizers are facing the right way, so what could possibly be going wrong? Does anyone have a specific strategy for replacing alps enter keys?
« Last Edit: Thu, 13 March 2014, 08:49:53 by ComradeSniper »

Offline boardcolletor

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6681 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 02:22:27 »
you need to use proxy to buy it from china

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.0.0.2KTaWd&id=36392535695
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=2013.1.0.0.2KTaWd&id=14384988030

they only have 1-5 sets of each color.

You can directly buy them from pabbos. Just paste the Taobao Link in the search Bar.

« Last Edit: Tue, 06 May 2014, 22:13:26 by boardcolletor »
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Offline stancato9

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6682 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 07:19:32 »
http://m.ebay.ca/itm/271101264283?nav=SEARCH

Is this the type of cable you need to make USB cables? Provided you have the connectors.
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Offline BlueBär

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6683 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 08:50:24 »
http://m.ebay.ca/itm/271101264283?nav=SEARCH

Is this the type of cable you need to make USB cables? Provided you have the connectors.

I always use normal USB cables and cut the ends off. I think that's actually what most people do.

Edit: I'm assuming with "making USB cables" you mean sleeving?

Offline Krogenar

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6684 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 09:08:47 »
Can anyone identify this funky alps board?

Show Image


The back has no identifying marks, but it is made of steel.

Show Image


Maybe a clone of a Northgate Omnikey? It looks like it's got the trap door on the upper left with dip switches inside? But it's missing the traditional function row... weird.
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Offline combataran

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6685 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 09:27:49 »
Would anyone here recommend a WASD V2 Black(barebones, with blank DSA caps from SP) over say...a Filco MJ2 or a Ducky S3 Black?
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Offline BlueBär

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6686 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 09:35:15 »
Would anyone here recommend a WASD V2 Black(barebones, with blank DSA caps from SP) over say...a Filco MJ2 or a Ducky S3 Black?

Those are all keyboards with a good reputation, you can't really go wrong with any of those.

Offline riotonthebay

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6687 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 09:37:13 »

Would anyone here recommend a WASD V2 Black(barebones, with blank DSA caps from SP) over say...a Filco MJ2 or a Ducky S3 Black?

I've only heard good things about WASD's build quality. It's not mentioned as often as Filco, but that could be simply because more people have Filcos. If I were planning on immediately swapping caps, I'd buy the WASD barebones.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6688 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 09:46:38 »
Would anyone here recommend a WASD V2 Black(barebones, with blank DSA caps from SP) over say...a Filco MJ2 or a Ducky S3 Black?

It all depends on what you want out of a keyboard, all those keyboards have different features.

Offline stancato9

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6689 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 09:49:40 »
http://m.ebay.ca/itm/271101264283?nav=SEARCH

Is this the type of cable you need to make USB cables? Provided you have the connectors.

I always use normal USB cables and cut the ends off. I think that's actually what most people do.

Edit: I'm assuming with "making USB cables" you mean sleeving?

Nope. I mean opening the cable and soldering the individual wires to their respectable places on the connectors.
Poker 2 - MX Red

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6690 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 09:54:05 »
http://m.ebay.ca/itm/271101264283?nav=SEARCH

Is this the type of cable you need to make USB cables? Provided you have the connectors.

I always use normal USB cables and cut the ends off. I think that's actually what most people do.

Edit: I'm assuming with "making USB cables" you mean sleeving?

Nope. I mean opening the cable and soldering the individual wires to their respectable places on the connectors.

You want bulk usb cable. It will have 4 diff color wires in it usually. Check this thread out -> http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44924.0

Offline combataran

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6691 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 10:04:56 »
Would anyone here recommend a WASD V2 Black(barebones, with blank DSA caps from SP) over say...a Filco MJ2 or a Ducky S3 Black?

It all depends on what you want out of a keyboard, all those keyboards have different features.

Well I just sold my Brown Poker II, the stabs were too mushy for me, I can't stop thinking about how mushy the stabs were even when I'm asleep that I'd get nightmares(about the mushiness). Decided to put it up for sale the next day. I'm now looking for a replacement, kinda waiting for the Novatouch, and I need a new keyboard to tide me over these few months.

I mainly play FPS, but the amount of gaming time has been reduced to almost nil due to the amount of work I have to do(college). Now I mostly type papers and stuff. Any recommendations?

Oh, did I forget to mention that I absolutely hated the stabs on the Poker II? Most probably going for something close to a Topre, like blacks or reds. Though I feel that the reds might be a little too light for me.
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Offline digi

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6692 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 10:12:51 »
Does the LZ MX have similar debounce issues that the LZ GH had/has? I know LZ released software to fix..

Offline LechnerDE

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6693 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 10:14:29 »
The mushiness you describe is due to the Cherry stabilizers of the Poker II.

Ducky also uses Cherry Stabs, so it will probably feel exactly the same. You could do the Clipping Mod to improve the feel of the stabilizers (there is a vid on youtube for it).

Or you could buy a Filco / WASD V2 which has Costar Stabilizers. Those don't feel mushy, but rather precise.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6694 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 10:22:07 »
The mushiness you describe is due to the Cherry stabilizers of the Poker II.

Ducky also uses Cherry Stabs, so it will probably feel exactly the same. You could do the Clipping Mod to improve the feel of the stabilizers (there is a vid on youtube for it).

Or you could buy a Filco / WASD V2 which has Costar Stabilizers. Those don't feel mushy, but rather precise.

The ducky shine 3 stabilizers are clipped from the factory, personally I like the feeling of them.

Offline combataran

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6695 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 10:22:57 »
The mushiness you describe is due to the Cherry stabilizers of the Poker II.

Ducky also uses Cherry Stabs, so it will probably feel exactly the same. You could do the Clipping Mod to improve the feel of the stabilizers (there is a vid on youtube for it).

Or you could buy a Filco / WASD V2 which has Costar Stabilizers. Those don't feel mushy, but rather precise.

So this narrows it down to the Filco and the WASD. The first commenter here: http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/1kl1bo/cant_decidewasd_v2_104key_vs_filco_ninja/ claims that the Filco has a better build quality than the WASD. Would anyone care to confirm that?
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Offline epzy

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6696 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 11:02:40 »
The mushiness you describe is due to the Cherry stabilizers of the Poker II.

Ducky also uses Cherry Stabs, so it will probably feel exactly the same. You could do the Clipping Mod to improve the feel of the stabilizers (there is a vid on youtube for it).

Or you could buy a Filco / WASD V2 which has Costar Stabilizers. Those don't feel mushy, but rather precise.

So this narrows it down to the Filco and the WASD. The first commenter here: http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/1kl1bo/cant_decidewasd_v2_104key_vs_filco_ninja/ claims that the Filco has a better build quality than the WASD. Would anyone care to confirm that?

I don't see why or how Filco MJ2 is 'miles ahead of WASD v2', they are pretty similar in my opinion, but I believe that the WASD v2 has a detachable cable and some other features like dip switches that Filco doesn't have. And don't listen to him about the keycaps, ABS can be bad, but so can PBT. High quality ABS (i.e. Cherry/GMK) is not 'crap'. I don't think you can go wrong either way; but I personally chose the Filco because of its reputation.
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Offline domoaligato

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6697 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 11:47:25 »
Q: I did a ergo clear mod (blue springs in clear switches). some of the switches like to stay in the down position unless I press the key again to make it bounce back up. I also stickered and lubed them...
 MOAR LUBE? :D

Offline Candyflip

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6698 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 11:54:11 »
Q: I did a ergo clear mod (blue springs in clear switches). some of the switches like to stay in the down position unless I press the key again to make it bounce back up. I also stickered and lubed them...
 MOAR LUBE? :D
You can try lubing them more, or just some stiffer springs. People reported problems like this so thats why many prefer 62g springs, they are just slightly heavier than blue/red/brown just enough to pop the stem right back when de pressed.
This sucks more than anything that has ever sucked before.

Offline heedpantsnow

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Re: Simple Questions, Simple Answers (FAQ in the OP)
« Reply #6699 on: Thu, 13 March 2014, 14:27:53 »
The mushiness you describe is due to the Cherry stabilizers of the Poker II.

Ducky also uses Cherry Stabs, so it will probably feel exactly the same. You could do the Clipping Mod to improve the feel of the stabilizers (there is a vid on youtube for it).

Or you could buy a Filco / WASD V2 which has Costar Stabilizers. Those don't feel mushy, but rather precise.

So this narrows it down to the Filco and the WASD. The first commenter here: http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/1kl1bo/cant_decidewasd_v2_104key_vs_filco_ninja/ claims that the Filco has a better build quality than the WASD. Would anyone care to confirm that?

I don't see why or how Filco MJ2 is 'miles ahead of WASD v2', they are pretty similar in my opinion, but I believe that the WASD v2 has a detachable cable and some other features like dip switches that Filco doesn't have. And don't listen to him about the keycaps, ABS can be bad, but so can PBT. High quality ABS (i.e. Cherry/GMK) is not 'crap'. I don't think you can go wrong either way; but I personally chose the Filco because of its reputation.

I haven't tried a WASD v2, but I have compared Filco next to many other brands incl. Ducky and felt that the quality and fit/finish was better on the Filco.  However, it seems to me from reading what people have said about WASD that you will not be disappointed with either.
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Espresso machine overhaul: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78261.0

Carbon Fiber keyboard base: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54825