Topre Appreciation Thread!

[iri]

The first $150 ish dollars is build quality. The rest of the cost comes from artificial scarcity and lack of competition.

agreed.

and build quality of realforce boards is good, but certainly not impressive bearing in mind their price.

and i ****en like the thock. can't understand why people pay even more price overhead for silenced boards.

[fuzzybaffy]

I don't know... If the first $150 of a Topre Realforce is for build quality (and I think we can all agree this is complete conjecture), how much would you think goes towards build quality for Filcos? It certainly isn't $150.

I don't know about the HHKB Pro, but the Realforce has much, much better build quality, than any Filco, or CM Storm keyboard I've tried. And, for me, personally, I have no problem paying the amount that I paid for the Topre, given its build, switch, and key quality; any amount of rubber be damned.

If Filcos go for $100-140, then, yea, I have absolutely no problem paying $300 for a Realforce.

[thirdkind]

I'm still getting used to my HHKB Type-S. Compared to my Filco Linear R, the key action on the HHKB is definitely smoother, and the PBT keys have a more solid feel. Even though the HHKB is pretty much only plastic and rubber that's noticeably lighter than the Filco, it's high-quality plastic and rubber. I can't say one is better than the other. I've never used a Realforce, so I can't draw any comparisons to that.

I'm not going to say the HHKB Type-S is worth $400, because it's not, frankly. But at this price, it's not a question of whether it's worth it. It's only whether you mind spending the money or not in order to get something you like. Most people outside this forum would laugh at spending $100 for a keyboard, so even Filcos are already considered a boutique product by the masses.

Now if only I could find an appropriately sized wrist rest in white leather My Elite Keyboards wrist rest, which is made to fit tenkeyless keyboards, dwarfs the keyboard itself.

and i ****en like the thock. can't understand why people pay even more price overhead for silenced boards.

The Type-S has a very satisfying sound. It's certainly not silent, it just doesn't have that plasticky clack on the upstroke. This was the video that sealed the deal for me, and I think the Type-S has a better sound in person than the video conveys. The sound of the spacebar on the non-silent version probably would've driven me crazy within 5 minutes.

[Saturn]

I don't know about the HHKB Pro, but the Realforce has much, much better build quality, than any Filco, or CM Storm keyboard I've tried.

Really?

I'm not asking this to troll, but I am legitimately curious, since I have never owned a Topre.  What about the build of a Realforce is much better in quailty than that of the Filco?  Surely you are speaking only of the keycaps.  Or is there something else?

[jabar]

I'm not asking this to troll, but I am legitimately curious, since I have never owned a Topre.  What about the build of a Realforce is much better in quailty than that of the Filco?  Surely you are speaking only of the keycaps.  Or is there something else?

I think the build quality is overestimated. It's good like Filco - my HHKB is sturdy even though its plate isn't metal - but even then there are outstanding issues that some here seem to readily dismiss: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=39248.0

The PBT keycaps have an excellent matte finish. I would say the current Ducky PBTs and the Leopold PBTs on the FC700Rs are on par with Topre.

[daerid]

I personally wouldn't say the build quality is much better than a Filco (except for the caps... PBT > ABS any day of the week). I've owned numerous Filcos, and 3 RFs, and I'd say they're pretty much on par as far as build quality goes.

[Michael]

I personally wouldn't say the build quality is much better than a Filco (except for the caps... PBT > ABS any day of the week). I've owned numerous Filcos, and 3 RFs, and I'd say they're pretty much on par as far as build quality goes.

I don't have my micrometer with me, but it looks like the RF case is a bit thicker than the Filco. Acoustically, it sounds that way as well. It just feels more solid.
I also like the natural angle of the RF as opposed to the legs on the Filco, but that's just a personal preference.

[akuJIWA]

55g is where it is.

[Michael]

55g is where it is.

Si.

[lazerpointer]

As my keyboard collection grows, the more I'm in love with the 87u. Plus I got a clack to put on it, so of course I feel obligated to type on it haha.

[fuzzybaffy]

Well, I've never opened either Realforce or Filco keyboards, but I still personally think Realforces are better built than Filcos.

They are definitely heavier, and whenever I type on them, I just get this super sturdy, solid feeling. Everything from the switches and the body itself seem more tightly put together. 

Also, build quality includes things like switch quality, which are much better in Realforces than the Cherrry switches in Filcos. They are much more smooth, with a lot less wobble. I think they feel more solid, as well.

This is a video, I think, that highlight the differences pretty well:

Before he types on each keyboard, he swipes his fingers across all the keys, to show the differences in key wobble. I don't know if it's readily apparent in the video, but you can kind of tell the Filco's switches are a little more loose, and have a little more wobble.

And when he types, notice how they sound differently. The Filco sounds a little more hollow, probably because there is less in the body, vs. the Topre, which has a deeper sound, probably because it's heavier. Also, the Topre switches seem much more smooth, and more solid.

[Saturn]

Before he types on each keyboard, he swipes his fingers across all the keys, to show the differences in key wobble. I don't know if it's readily apparent in the video, but you can kind of tell the Filco's switches are a little more loose, and have a little more wobble.

And when he types, notice how they sound differently. The Filco sounds a little more hollow, probably because there is less in the body, vs. the Topre, which has a deeper sound, probably because it's heavier. Also, the Topre switches seem much more smooth, and more solid.

Most of the issues you mention are related to switch design, though, rather than keyboard quality.  One might be tempted to consider the two equivalent in the case of Topre since there are so few Topre keyboards that make it to the US, but that would be an unfair comparison.  If you were to say that the Topre switch is superior in quality in comparison with a Cherry MX switch, then there might be an argument to be made, but that's a very different issue from a Realforce keyboard having a higher build quality than a Filco.

As far as the "less hollow" sound, some of the sound in a Topre is probably being absorbed by the presence of the rubber cup.

[fuzzybaffy]

I'd say switch design is a part of overall keyboard quality. Switches are, after all, a part of the keyboard.

I disagree with the notion that it's the rubber cups creating the less hollow sound.

[Acetrak]

I disagree with the notion that it's the rubber cups creating the less hollow sound.

What do you think is creating the sound if it's not the rubber?

[fuzzybaffy]

I disagree with the notion that it's the rubber cups creating the less hollow sound.

What do you think is creating the sound if it's not the rubber?

Well, there certainly is a "muted" sound, and that's the rubber.

But I was specifically referring to a less hollow, deeper sound with the Topre, which I think is caused either by more components being in the keyboard, the keyboard having thicker components, and/or the keyboard being more tightly put together.

I mean, we've all played musical instruments in grade school before, right? Or played with the rims of glasses with wet fingers? If you fill the glass with more water, you're going to have a deeper sound. It's just indicative of more "being there" inside a Topre, or the Topre being more tightly and/or sturdily built.

[jabar]

The Topre switches on their own are much more stable than Cherry MX. I can't say that the build quality is necessarily much higher on Topre boards over Filcos... plastic can only improve so much.

[Mainian]

And... Geekhack has turned into Torpehack.

And you guys are making me want to buy one.

Now to decide...

Realforce 45g vs 55g or HHKB Pro 2

[fuzzybaffy]

Actually, yea, plastic can. See: ABS vs. PBT.

And the way plastics are put together and assembled can vary widely, and can be indicative of overall quality of the product's manufacturing process.

Also, you're comparing an HHKB to a Filco. I've never used an HHKB so I can't comment on that.

Regardless, it seems a lot of people vary on this issue. Again, I just implore people to see and decide for themselves, right here in this video:

[jabar]

Realforce 45g vs 55g or HHKB Pro 2

The only reason you'd want an HHKB is if the small profile and portability is something you need. That and there is a small learning curve before the Fn shortcuts become integrated into muscle memory.

Don't bother with Type-S. It's a $100 gimmick. Topres are already silent compared to every MX switch I've tried.

Actually, yea, plastic can. See: ABS vs. PBT.

And the way plastics are put together and assembled can vary widely, and can be indicative of overall quality of the product's manufacturing process.

Also, you're comparing an HHKB to a Filco. I've never used an HHKB so I can't comment on that.

HHKB has excellent build quality. All its features cater to portability (i.e. the plate is plastic and the overall keyboard is light) and I don't see them as drawbacks.

As I posted previously in this thread, there are documented issues with some Realforce keyboards which happens to every manufacturer. It seems build quality is on par (and yeah sure it uses PBT for the case, others do as well). The PBT keycaps and switches are where the advantage is.

[fuzzybaffy]

I don't know... I think people should check out the video and decide for themselves.

[thirdkind]

Don't bother with Type-S. It's a $100 gimmick. Topres are already silent compared to every MX switch I've tried.

I won't argue that's it's worth $100, but it's not a gimmick. There's a marked difference in the sound between the standard and Type-S versions. See the video I posted earlier.

Filcos are very chatty "Quieter" doesn't mean "quiet".

[Mainian]

Don't bother with Type-S. It's a $100 gimmick. Topres are already silent compared to every MX switch I've tried.

I won't argue that's it's worth $100, but it's not a gimmick. There's a marked difference in the sound between the standard and Type-S versions. See the video I posted earlier.

Filcos are very chatty "Quieter" doesn't mean "quiet".

Yeah, it isn't a $100 modification though. {

I'm not sure which way to go though.

[daerid]

I just don't know why somebody would want a silenced Topre. They're already much quieter than most standard rubber dome boards. And I mean... come on.. GOTTA HAVE THAT THOCK

*edit* OPPS. I meant Topre, not Filco

[jabar]

I won't argue that's it's worth $100, but it's not a gimmick. There's a marked difference in the sound between the standard and Type-S versions. See the video I posted earlier.

Yeah, it isn't a $100 modification though.

The fact that it somehow is a $100 price difference (even more for HHKB Type-S) makes it a gimmick.

Anyway, I would steer fellow new Topre users away from Type-S variants. I myself am curious about 55g weighting or the 10 AE 30g weighting. 45g on this HHKB is fine but not sure if there's a better suited weighting for me.

[Michael]

I disagree with the notion that it's the rubber cups creating the less hollow sound.

What do you think is creating the sound if it's not the rubber?

I speculated on thicker plastic, which is true now that I have both cases apart. It's also construction components. How the plastic is molded for acoustics and stability. The thickness of the plastic definitely creates a more solid feeling. It's definitely a combination of case and switch that give it the overall feel that many admire. I am not downplaying Filcos at all, but I definitely feel the RF boards are a lot more 'solid'.

[thirdkind]

The fact that it somehow is a $100 price difference (even more for HHKB Type-S) makes it a gimmick.

I don't see how price enters into it. The effect is real. Its value to you personally doesn't change its effectiveness. I agree it's probably not $100 worth of components and labor, though. The price is definitely inflated.

I love the sound myself. I'd make the same choice again if I had the opportunity to do it over.

[tjcaustin]

I know I've been talking about it for a while, but I'm close.  I've picked out fancy colored caps, now I'm just deciding on if I want to just go 55g or take another risk on 45g and get an HHKB instead....

Bro capefaceman, any chance for topre bro caps?

[AKIMbO]

I know I've been talking about it for a while, but I'm close.  I've picked out fancy colored caps, now I'm just deciding on if I want to just go 55g or take another risk on 45g and get an HHKB instead....

Bro capefaceman, any chance for topre bro caps?

For real yo,,,,topre brocap!

[Michael]

I know I've been talking about it for a while, but I'm close.  I've picked out fancy colored caps, now I'm just deciding on if I want to just go 55g or take another risk on 45g and get an HHKB instead....

Bro capefaceman, any chance for topre bro caps?

Definitely go with 55g if you type heavy. At least for me, personally, it's the primo topre switch.

As for topre bro caps, not the current design. Future designs, yes

[Acetrak]

I disagree with the notion that it's the rubber cups creating the less hollow sound.

What do you think is creating the sound if it's not the rubber?

I speculated on thicker plastic, which is true now that I have both cases apart. It's also construction components. How the plastic is molded for acoustics and stability. The thickness of the plastic definitely creates a more solid feeling. It's definitely a combination of case and switch that give it the overall feel that many admire. I am not downplaying Filcos at all, but I definitely feel the RF boards are a lot more 'solid'.

Ah gotcha, if I had to guess it would've been because of the switch composition. And since topre boards' switches are "more integrated" than Cherry MX it makes sense that certain boards feel more solid. It sounds like what I was thinking falls in line with RF experiences.

@tj: mistakemistake has a topre BroBot

[Mainian]

Probably the thread to ask...

HHKB white vs black.

How is it? Do the white keys / board yellow quickly?

[sth]

After reading this thread, Topre really sounds like the old IBM rubber dome keyboard I use at work. It's surprisingly high quality and has that soft thock everyone keeps talking about.

there is at least one capacitive rubber dome ibm out there that feels very similar to topre; i've tried one before and would love to get my hands on one for myself...

[tjcaustin]

I know I've been talking about it for a while, but I'm close.  I've picked out fancy colored caps, now I'm just deciding on if I want to just go 55g or take another risk on 45g and get an HHKB instead....

Bro capefaceman, any chance for topre bro caps?

Definitely go with 55g if you type heavy. At least for me, personally, it's the primo topre switch.

As for topre bro caps, not the current design. Future designs, yes

YEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS

[Amarok]

Which weight is closest to that of a mx blue? I am going to order a realforce today and I don't know if should get 45, 55 or various. What would you guys suggest if I love the weight of blues?

[Michael]

Which weight is closest to that of a mx blue? I am going to order a realforce today and I don't know if should get 45, 55 or various. What would you guys suggest if I love the weight of blues?

MX Blues are pretty light, same as MX Red and MX Brown (actuation force). If you prefer light force, you should go with a variable weight topre board.

[AKIMbO]

Which weight is closest to that of a mx blue? I am going to order a realforce today and I don't know if should get 45, 55 or various. What would you guys suggest if I love the weight of blues?

Uniform 45g for sure.

[jabar]

Probably the thread to ask...

HHKB white vs black.

How is it? Do the white keys / board yellow quickly?

I wish the HHKB I have is printed white keycaps. Black on dark grey is cool, but so difficult to see in the dark. Not sure on the longevity of the keycaps, but rest assured PBT will take a lot of abuse before showing wear.

[Michael]

Not sure on the longevity of the keycaps, but rest assured PBT will take a lot of abuse before showing wear.

o2dazone has been hacking away on his white hhkb for almost 5 years I think, and they are just barely showing a tiny bit of shine here and there. But this is his main driver that he works on. So it's constantly taking a beating.

[iri]

Which weight is closest to that of a mx blue? I am going to order a realforce today and I don't know if should get 45, 55 or various. What would you guys suggest if I love the weight of blues?

Uniform 45g for sure.

true that

[Amarok]

Which weight is closest to that of a mx blue? I am going to order a realforce today and I don't know if should get 45, 55 or various. What would you guys suggest if I love the weight of blues?

Uniform 45g for sure.

true that

I just ordered the 45g board in black. Can't wait to try it out.

[Grim Fandango]

This topic needs more pics

I have to say I have always been interested in Topre keyboards. Mainly because they are so freaking expensive which makes you wonder what they feel like. Maybe some day.

[Michael]

I just ordered the 45g board in black. Can't wait to try it out.

Awesome! Keep us updated

[thirdkind]

This topic needs more pics

I posted this in my own review topic last week, but here it is again. NES color scheme!

[lazerpointer]

For pics (well, ideally that is );

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40658.msg808201#msg808201

[tjcaustin]

I've got an 87u in my cart along with some other stuff, but I can't pull the trigger for some reason.  I don't know if it's my being-built LZ-GH, the new kmac happy or what, but there's just something stopping me from just giving EK my money for that 55g weighted boob squishes...

[Michael]

I've got an 87u in my cart along with some other stuff, but I can't pull the trigger for some reason.  I don't know if it's my being-built LZ-GH, the new kmac happy or what, but there's just something stopping me from just giving EK my money for that 55g weighted boob squishes...

You can't go wrong for $250 man. I was strongly considering a second one.

[iri]

I've got an 87u in my cart along with some other stuff, but I can't pull the trigger for some reason.  I don't know if it's my being-built LZ-GH, the new kmac happy or what, but there's just something stopping me from just giving EK my money for that 55g weighted boob squishes...

that's because you want 45g!

[tjcaustin]

I've got an 87u in my cart along with some other stuff, but I can't pull the trigger for some reason.  I don't know if it's my being-built LZ-GH, the new kmac happy or what, but there's just something stopping me from just giving EK my money for that 55g weighted boob squishes...

that's because you want 45g!

Had one, too light.

[Michael]

Had one, too light.

*Manly-hand high-five!*

[tjcaustin]

Had one, too light.

*Manly-hand high-five!*

*is careful not to destroy community with chucknorrisesque shockwave*