Author Topic: IBM AT Model F restoration log (Read 21733 times)

sleepy916 · « **on:** Sat, 23 February 2013, 16:05:15 »

So I got a IBM AT Model F a couple of weeks ago, I did the normal disassembly and cleaning but then it just sat there. I've finally made some progress, I took the front metal plate and sanded it down a bit. There was some rust which is expected in such an old keyboard. I'm still planning on changing it to an ANSI layout and putting an internal teensy.

Some pictures, first couple are from my cellphone..

I'm waiting on the teensy to arrive.

fohat.digs · « **Reply #1 on:** Sat, 23 February 2013, 16:29:58 »

That paint job is awesome. I always worry about the paint clogging up the stabilizer brackets, but they can probably be scraped out if need be.

mr_a500 · « **Reply #2 on:** Sat, 23 February 2013, 16:30:12 »

What do you need the Teensy for?

(typing this on an IBM AT Model F connected to PowerMac G5... no Teensy)

sleepy916 · « **Reply #3 on:** Sat, 23 February 2013, 16:39:22 »

Quote from: fohat.digs on Sat, 23 February 2013, 16:29:58

That paint job is awesome. I always worry about the paint clogging up the stabilizer brackets, but they can probably be scraped out if need be.

It should be ok, you would have to seriously put a thick coat of paint on to clog up the brackets.

Quote from: mr_a500 on Sat, 23 February 2013, 16:30:12

What do you need the Teensy for?

(typing this on an IBM AT Model F connected to PowerMac G5... no Teensy)

I wanted to change it to USB connection mainly, and move some of the buttons around.

mr_a500 · « **Reply #4 on:** Sat, 23 February 2013, 16:44:08 »

Quote from: sleepy916 on Sat, 23 February 2013, 16:39:22

I wanted to change it to USB connection mainly, and move some of the buttons around.

A blue cube (or Belkin) adapter and keyboard remapping program might be easier.

sleepy916 · « **Reply #5 on:** Sat, 23 February 2013, 16:47:07 »

Quote from: mr_a500 on Sat, 23 February 2013, 16:44:08

Quote from: sleepy916 on Sat, 23 February 2013, 16:39:22
I wanted to change it to USB connection mainly, and move some of the buttons around.

A blue cube (or Belkin) adapter and keyboard remapping program might be easier.

I didn't want to use an external adapter though.

sleepy916 · « **Reply #6 on:** Sun, 24 February 2013, 18:26:06 »

Ahhh update, I didn't realized I messed up on one of the spring placement when I was changing it to ANSI from ISO. This was when I was almost done with putting all the key caps back on. It was such a pain when putting back together with the PCB. Anyways a couple of pictures.

I noticed also that one of the barrels pushed out some extra paint near where the "+" would be on the numpad. Not a big deal though.

fohat.digs · « **Reply #7 on:** Mon, 25 February 2013, 08:32:47 »

If there was only one misplaced spring, and you only had to take it apart once, you did very well!

wcass · « **Reply #8 on:** Mon, 25 February 2013, 12:08:54 »

nice job. internal Teensy with Soarer's is the way to go. i did one just like this last year and really enjoyed it.

have you considered activating the extra keys left and right of the spacebar? what was the condition of your foam?

sleepy916 · « **Reply #9 on:** Mon, 25 February 2013, 17:11:18 »

Quote from: fohat.digs on Mon, 25 February 2013, 08:32:47

If there was only one misplaced spring, and you only had to take it apart once, you did very well!

Thanks! After the first time it got easier to put it back together.

Quote from: wcass on Mon, 25 February 2013, 12:08:54

nice job. internal Teensy with Soarer's is the way to go. i did one just like this last year and really enjoyed it.

have you considered activating the extra keys left and right of the spacebar? what was the condition of your foam?

I'm in the process right now. I got my teensy yesterday night but I'm having a hard time finding the pinout for the controller to the teensy. I don't have a multimeter right now to test it out. I got the teensy with pins so I didn't have to solder anything. I was planning on connecting them together with these.

I was hoping somebody who has an AT with a teensy could tell me the pinouts.

The extra keys, meaning the capslock and alt? I was planning on moving them around but what did you have in mind? The foam was is really good condition, thankfully. I didn't have to do anything to it. I dusted a little bit off but left it alone.

x2o · « **Reply #10 on:** Mon, 25 February 2013, 18:17:42 »

Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but in Soarer's thread the AT connector pins are given as :
(colors differentiate from board to board so it's not a simple as white for gnd yellow for clock etc)

As for the teensy, assuming you got a Teensy 2.0 (not ++), GND will be able to go onto either GND pin, VCC to either VCC pin, Data to the PD0 pin, and clock to the PD1 pin. PD0 and PD1 can be seen in this image, but should also be labeled on your board

wcass · « **Reply #11 on:** Mon, 25 February 2013, 18:39:32 »

my modification log is here:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=25919.0

it was from the time before "the great outage" so the formatting and pictures did not survive. i probably have copies on my computer somewhere - i will check because i am sure i took pictures that show of how the Teensy connects to the controller. IIRC, white = gnd, black = vcc, yellow = clock, and red = data - but i believe that Soarer has posted it in a few threads. i made a cocoon for my teensy with electrical tape.

the mod i was speaking about involves replacing the space bar with 3 keys - [Alt][ Space ][Alt] - or other keys if you like the Alt and Ctrl where they are. the AT PCB has extra capacitive sensors at the left and right side of the space bar. And Soarer's adapter has code that allows you to use these if you put a hammer and barrel in that spot. you use a M spacebar and two 1.5 keys.

sleepy916 · « **Reply #12 on:** Mon, 25 February 2013, 21:43:47 »

Quote from: x2o on Mon, 25 February 2013, 18:17:42

Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but in Soarer's thread the AT connector pins are given as :
(colors differentiate from board to board so it's not a simple as white for gnd yellow for clock etc)

As for the teensy, assuming you got a Teensy 2.0 (not ++), GND will be able to go onto either GND pin, VCC to either VCC pin, Data to the PD0 pin, and clock to the PD1 pin. PD0 and PD1 can be seen in this image, but should also be labeled on your board

Thanks, because I don't have a multimeter I couldn't test out the wires, otherwise I would have used the first image.

Quote from: wcass on Mon, 25 February 2013, 18:39:32

my modification log is here:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=25919.0

it was from the time before "the great outage" so the formatting and pictures did not survive. i probably have copies on my computer somewhere - i will check because i am sure i took pictures that show of how the Teensy connects to the controller. IIRC, white = gnd, black = vcc, yellow = clock, and red = data - but i believe that Soarer has posted it in a few threads. i made a cocoon for my teensy with electrical tape.

the mod i was speaking about involves replacing the space bar with 3 keys - [Alt][ Space ][Alt] - or other keys if you like the Alt and Ctrl where they are. the AT PCB has extra capacitive sensors at the left and right side of the space bar. And Soarer's adapter has code that allows you to use these if you put a hammer and barrel in that spot. you use a M spacebar and two 1.5 keys.

Thank you! Yeah that is what I needed. I couldn't find it through all those threads. Although the header to my cable looks a little bit different. There is also a green cord too, it looks like this.

So I'm a bit unsure, a friend linked me to this as well.

http://www.kbdbabel.org/schematic/kbdbabel_doc_ibmat_kbd.pdf

I will have to try to match things up. Thanks for all the help so far.

Oh yeah, I saw the extra buttons you put next to the spacebar, that looks great but that is something that is above my abilities right now.

UPDATE: I did some matching and thankfully it matches together. They use different colors but it all worked out from what I can tell. Now to actually hook it up.

fohat.digs · « **Reply #13 on:** Tue, 26 February 2013, 08:06:09 »

You can never trust colors. Even IBM changed its wiring.

Good luck. Soarer told me that the one thing you mustn't do is mix power and ground. Data and clock won't hurt anything.

A cheap multimeter will more than pay for itself if it saves you from wrecking just one component, and controllers from those old boards can be hard to find. At least a fried Teensy is only $22 delivered.

sleepy916 · « **Reply #14 on:** Tue, 26 February 2013, 18:06:26 »

Quote from: fohat.digs on Tue, 26 February 2013, 08:06:09

You can never trust colors. Even IBM changed its wiring.

Good luck. Soarer told me that the one thing you mustn't do is mix power and ground. Data and clock won't hurt anything.

A cheap multimeter will more than pay for itself if it saves you from wrecking just one component, and controllers from those old boards can be hard to find. At least a fried Teensy is only $22 delivered.

Yeah I wanted to make sure before I connected anything, and I'm glad it worked out. Otherwise I would have bought a multimeter.

So I got it all wired up accordingly and it was easy once I figured what goes where. Here are some pictures of the inside of the case with the teensy connected. I'm typing on it right now and I love it. Definitely better than a Model M. I will need to learn how to swap the keys around but I'm certainly enjoying it the way it is now.

The usb cord is not secured right now but the keyboard is not going anywhere so it's not that big of a deal.

okooko · « **Reply #15 on:** Tue, 26 February 2013, 18:08:40 »

Nice Dell, I have 3 of those hehe

sleepy916 · « **Reply #16 on:** Tue, 26 February 2013, 18:13:00 »

Quote from: okooko on Tue, 26 February 2013, 18:08:40

Nice Dell, I have 3 of those hehe

Show off!

I love it! too bad it puts out so much heat...

fohat.digs · « **Reply #17 on:** Tue, 26 February 2013, 18:33:23 »

SWEET !

I have a really nice un-modded F AT in storage in the basement.

There will be no choice but to buy another Teensy and swap for an ANSI "Enter" and "\|" and add the "Alt" keys beside a smaller spacebar.

I have been watching all this SSK stuff from the sidelines, but the modded F AT is probably closer to my style.

Problem is, I use ALL of the arrow keys/home cluster/numpad constantly, so switching will be painful. I will miss the arrow keys and "Delete" button the most.

AKIMbO · « **Reply #18 on:** Tue, 26 February 2013, 18:37:26 »

Looking good! Glad everything worked out for you.

sleepy916 · « **Reply #19 on:** Tue, 26 February 2013, 18:42:00 »

Quote from: fohat.digs on Tue, 26 February 2013, 18:33:23

SWEET !

I have a really nice un-modded F AT in storage in the basement.

There will be no choice but to buy another Teensy and swap for an ANSI "Enter" and "\|" and add the "Alt" keys beside a smaller spacebar.

I have been watching all this SSK stuff from the sidelines, but the modded F AT is probably closer to my style.

Problem is, I use ALL of the arrow keys/home cluster/numpad constantly, so switching will be painful. I will miss the arrow keys and "Delete" button the most.

Yeah it is taking a little to get used to. I miss the "Delete" a lot too. I'm using the arrows on the numpad and it is doing the job nicely. Once I figure out how to change the keys it will be almost perfect for me.

I really wanted an SSK before but now after typing on this AT I don't know if I could go back to a Model M.

fohat.digs · « **Reply #20 on:** Tue, 26 February 2013, 19:59:04 »

If you are using a Teensy, use wcass's method in posting # 562

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=17458.msg765554#msg765554

sleepy916 · « **Reply #21 on:** Wed, 27 February 2013, 03:01:01 »

It took me a little while but I got it setup how I like it. I moved a few things around, nothing too crazy.

Orignal Spot - What it is now
F1 - ESC
ESC - DELETE
CTRL - CAPSLOCK
ALT - CTRL
CAPSLOCK - ATL

And some of the F buttons on the left. Now to buy some keys from Unicomp and I should be set for a while until I want to do the spacebar mod.

I wanted to thank you guys for all your help, it was very much appreciated. I love this keyboard!

mr_a500 · « **Reply #22 on:** Fri, 01 March 2013, 10:17:53 »

You put ESC on F1? That's strange. I put mine where "~" was. I'm also surprised you moved the CTRL. I thought most people preferred it in its original spot beside the "A" (I do), though if you need to CTRL-C CTRL-V it's easier on the bottom. I use a Mac, so copy & paste is Command-C Command-V - and my Command key is on the bottom where you put your CTRL. My ALT is also where CAPSLOCK was.

I'm quite happy with my layout and don't feel I'm missing anything - except F12. (I hate when some annoying program says "press F12".)

morpheus · « **Reply #23 on:** Fri, 01 March 2013, 11:25:17 »

I envy your skill and purchase. I would pay good money to get that. Good job!

sleepy916 · « **Reply #24 on:** Fri, 01 March 2013, 13:44:22 »

Quote from: mr_a500 on Fri, 01 March 2013, 10:17:53

You put ESC on F1? That's strange. I put mine where "~" was. I'm also surprised you moved the CTRL. I thought most people preferred it in its original spot beside the "A" (I do), though if you need to CTRL-C CTRL-V it's easier on the bottom. I use a Mac, so copy & paste is Command-C Command-V - and my Command key is on the bottom where you put your CTRL. My ALT is also where CAPSLOCK was.

I'm quite happy with my layout and don't feel I'm missing anything - except F12. (I hate when some annoying program says "press F12".)

Yeah I moved the ESC because I'm used to having it all the way to the upper left. For the CTRL and CAPSLOCK, I tried to get it back to the regular layout as much as possible. Yeah I'm used to having the CTRL on the bottom when I do my CTRL V.

Quote from: morpheus on Fri, 01 March 2013, 11:25:17

I envy your skill and purchase. I would pay good money to get that. Good job!

I'm really not skilled, I just read a lot of threads and took my time. I got help from geekhack members that lead me in the right direction. I would definitely say all the work was worth it. This keyboard is a dream to type on.

mr_a500 · « **Reply #25 on:** Fri, 01 March 2013, 14:10:25 »

What do you do about F11? F11 is used in lots of programs for fullscreen. I made numpad 0 into F11. Numpad 5 is a second down arrow because I've found the "inverted T" is etched in my brain and half the time I was pressing "5" for down. (now my fingers and brain don't have to fight

)

sleepy916 · « **Reply #26 on:** Fri, 01 March 2013, 14:31:29 »

Quote from: mr_a500 on Fri, 01 March 2013, 14:10:25

What do you do about F11? F11 is used in lots of programs for fullscreen. I made numpad 0 into F11. Numpad 5 is a second down arrow because I've found the "inverted T" is etched in my brain and half the time I was pressing "5" for down. (now my fingers and brain don't have to fight )

To be honest, I can't remember the last time I pressed F11. I rarely use the F keys so it didn't bother me too much. That is interesting with the Numbpad 5, I may have to do that too.

wcass · « **Reply #27 on:** Fri, 01 March 2013, 19:53:58 »

Quote from: mr_a500 on Fri, 01 March 2013, 10:17:53

You put ESC on F1? That's strange. I put mine where "~" was. I'm also surprised you moved the CTRL. I thought most people preferred it in its original spot beside the "A" (I do), though if you need to CTRL-C CTRL-V it's easier on the bottom. I use a Mac, so copy & paste is Command-C Command-V - and my Command key is on the bottom where you put your CTRL. My ALT is also where CAPSLOCK was.

I'm quite happy with my layout and don't feel I'm missing anything - except F12. (I hate when some annoying program says "press F12".)

hay, some of us actually use tilde and grave.
i felt i needed a Fn key in order to get 104 key functionality and chose the stepped key because it *is* prime real estate. Fn+1 to Fn+= are F1 through F12. Fn+shift is Caps lock. Ctrl and Alt in the same spot that i am used to on my other boards.

mr_a500 · « **Reply #28 on:** Sat, 02 March 2013, 07:48:54 »

Quote from: wcass on Fri, 01 March 2013, 19:53:58

hay, some of us actually use tilde and grave.

So do I (...I think..) but mine is over on the numpad where ESC used to be. I'll have to use that FN + number idea when I convert an old vintage keyboard which has no function keys.

sleepy916 · « **Reply #29 on:** Tue, 05 March 2013, 22:14:00 »

I made this little picture looking at my post it notes. Not sure if it is useful for anybody but I'll post it here anyways.

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)

Fixed the typo...

AKIMbO · « **Reply #30 on:** Wed, 06 March 2013, 14:12:53 »

Quote from: sleepy916 on Tue, 05 March 2013, 22:14:00

I made this little picture looking at my post it notes. Not sure if it is useful for anybody but I'll post it here anyways.

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻)

Show Image

Awesome...thanks for sharing...you should post it in Soarer's thread too.

sleepy916 · « **Reply #31 on:** Sat, 09 March 2013, 19:51:38 »

Fixed the typo on there..

sleepy916 · « **Reply #32 on:** Wed, 03 April 2013, 18:50:44 »

Two more Fs that needs some TLC....

fohat.digs · « **Reply #33 on:** Thu, 04 April 2013, 08:20:18 »

It is a damn shame that the F case plastic has a textured "skin" layer that flakes off to leave a shiny surface below. Makes case rehab much harder.

That is my biggest complaint with the F, and part of the reason that I dyed/painted 3 of my cases (although hiding the epoxy repair job was the real impetus).

You are very lucky that the big case is not cracked in one of the lower corners.

sleepy916 · « **Reply #34 on:** Thu, 04 April 2013, 12:31:26 »

The AT isn't so bad but the 122, there are quite a few spots where the textured part is off. I think I will be spray painting it.

fohat.digs · « **Reply #35 on:** Fri, 05 April 2013, 07:33:05 »

Quote from: sleepy916 on Thu, 04 April 2013, 12:31:26

The AT isn't so bad but the 122, there are quite a few spots where the textured part is off. I think I will be spray painting it.

Toward the end of my guide is a picture of "Dupli-Color" vinyl and fabric dye that works very well. It costs about $8 per can at the auto supply store and will do 3 boards. After a year and a half of use, it is still near-perfect.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37753.msg722184#msg722184

sleepy916 · « **Reply #36 on:** Fri, 05 April 2013, 14:10:39 »

Is there any sanding needed for vinyl and fabric dye? I was going to sand and paint but wasn't sure about how much to sand off. If I should keep the rough textured part or get all the way to the smooth plastic.

fohat.digs · « **Reply #37 on:** Fri, 05 April 2013, 18:07:14 »

The surfaces need to be very clean, but I would avoid sanding if possible. Anything rough enough to leave a texture will probably chew up more skin, and anything smooth will not match.

Something that I have done - and this is very touchy - is spray on a relatively heavy coat, wait until it is just tacky, and lay a paper towel lightly onto the area in question for just a second, then gently pick it back up. If you did it right, it will raise little tiny peaks which will then dry.

Then, later, another coat or two over that might - if you are lucky - blend it all back to a similar texture.

sleepy916 · « **Reply #38 on:** Fri, 05 April 2013, 18:55:18 »

Interesting, I will have to try that when I have time. If I mess up I can always start over.

sleepy916 · « **Reply #39 on:** Tue, 09 April 2013, 20:46:21 »

Wow, trying to slide the front plate of the 122 from the PCB is incredibly hard. It is much harder than the AT.

fohat.digs · « **Reply #40 on:** Tue, 09 April 2013, 21:55:33 »

One of the tabs will be bent over to crimp the thing in place. Usually the one over the numpad, if I remember. Find that one and bend it upright.

I stand it up on end and give it a couple of light taps with a hammer.

sleepy916 · « **Reply #41 on:** Tue, 09 April 2013, 23:52:34 »

Yeah I unbent that one tab but trying to slide it by hand is hard. I need to bust out the hammer...

sleepy916 · « **Reply #42 on:** Sun, 21 April 2013, 22:32:20 »

Small update:

I finally got around to using the hammer, a few taps against the plate and it loosened up. The foam is trashed, coming apart and sticking to the barrels, and front plate. I think that is also why it was so hard to take apart by hand. I cleaned the pieces up a bit and now waiting for an arch punch for some new foam.

fohat.digs · « **Reply #43 on:** Mon, 22 April 2013, 07:43:37 »

That mat is not too bad, really, in the overall scheme, based on the 6-8 that I have seen.

I have carefully cleaned and re-used mats like that, before I figured out how to make new mats. I rinsed them well to remove that horrible gritty deteriorated foam, maybe using a bit of mild soap, and laid them out flat to dry. As long as they have not torn or stretched too far out of shape, they will serve.

But making a new one might be better. The mat does not have much function other than to seat the barrels. If you are having trouble finding a 5/8" hole punch, you can buy a short piece of pipe and sharpen the edge.

AKIMbO · « **Reply #44 on:** Tue, 23 April 2013, 15:48:18 »

The fact that the mat came out in one piece means it isn't in horrible condition.

I've had mats completely deteriorate in my hands before.

sleepy916 · « **Reply #45 on:** Tue, 23 April 2013, 18:19:31 »

It is in bad condition though, the shiny back part is sticky. It leaves a black residue every time you touch it. The other side was breaking apart attaching itself to the metal plate. Although I'm not sure why it didn't rip apart like my other one.

sleepy916 · « **Reply #46 on:** Thu, 30 May 2013, 00:29:30 »

Finally got around to sanding and cleaning some things up. Now to decide what colors to paint the metal plate and the outer case. I was thinking about this combination.

Using the red for the metal plate and the beige color for the case. Now I need to find out where I can get a close enough match for the colors.

wcass · « **Reply #47 on:** Thu, 30 May 2013, 13:55:04 »

if you like that color scheme, you should go gold for the plate, red keys, and ivory for the case.

i had metal IBM badges made by Benton Trophy. i have gold on black and black on gold, but i don't have any red badges.

News:

Author Topic: IBM AT Model F restoration log (Read 21733 times)