Author Topic: Best Ergonomic Keyboard and key layout for disabled programmer with weak fingers (Read 27410 times)

rootwyrm · « **Reply #50 on:** Mon, 25 February 2013, 15:45:03 »

Quote from: Rythh on Mon, 25 February 2013, 09:08:36

rootwyrm you have brought up points I didn't think about, and I definitely want to hear what you might recommend, if not the Advantage. I honestly think I can't completely win, with my disease SOMETHING is going to lose, whether it be my thumbs or pinkys or whatever. However, being unable to grip is something I am all too familiar with, and it is scary. I don't want to lose my thumbs, so I just don't know what to do. You seem to have at least a similar situation so any advice is wonderful.

Yah, not nearly as bad (yet) thankfully, but with the way things go for me, gods only know there. (Partially collapsed metacarpal tunnel and a very, very nasty neurological condition. Lucky enough to still have the occasional good day though, thank gods.) But unfortunately, you are right, there's going to be a tradeoff one way or the other. The way I've always looked at it though is "screw it, live while I'm living." Supposedly this is a healthy outlook but I am skeptical. My neuro tends to be biased.

Honestly I think the best thing to do given your situation is experiment. The Datahand would possibly be best, but as you said - too much and unavailable. The Realforce might be helpful, but really it's going to be a lot of fussing around with the desk arrangement and the keyboard - angle of attack does affect finger fatigue. I'd also suggest trying to change your typing style. Things like hitting space with a different finger, trying to alternate shift key usage - most folks tend to use one shift key almost exclusively - and possibly experimenting with different layouts like Colemak. Ultimately the goal would be to find an arrangement where you can use your thumbs and index fingers less prevalently than typical.

I am super, super grateful to Brian for helping out here. A non-ergonomic keyboard really is going to be your best option long term as well, since you're not dealing with nerve impingement and you may end up having to hunt and peck. You can't do that with the Datahand - you NEED all 5 fingers on both hands to use it. The Realforce should be adaptable to a variety of different layouts, but I'll have to defer to the Topre experts on how to do that. The biggest thing is to try different setups and find one that works for you.

You might also investigate the SteelSeries World of Warcraft Legendary and Wireless mice. They also have a pinky tray, plus programmable buttons with solid software, and they're very well designed ergonomically for most hands. I have very long fingers and they work well for me. And yes, they have pinky support (plus a button over there.) I've found that's extremely helpful for gaming, especially since the Wireless has an insanely high resolution laser. Makes me suck at FPSes, but I can at least still play them despite being completely unable to move my arm.

aviphysics · « **Reply #51 on:** Mon, 25 February 2013, 17:31:15 »

Quote from: Rythh on Mon, 25 February 2013, 15:04:37

I agree as well with rknize, I think Brian letting me try out the Realforce may be just the answer I need for my current situation though. Long term, with any luck, may never have to be so drastic as a single finger keyboard. If I can treat my hands right, they will hopefully retain their current use and I won't have to worry about Ulnar Claw (crossing my fingers here, which maybe I shouldn't because that is just using my muscle even more! ) Also, on the note of a foot pedal or anything involving my feet/legs, I've already lost most of the strength in those areas (as Brian said, those go first), so I won't be able to head down that path.

I am going to give this Realforce a try. The variable weight is exactly what my pinky needs, and he has convinced me that I should at least consider a non-ergonomic board layout (which I should have thought of before, it's my fingers giving me issue, not my wrists/arms). And this way, most of the work is still on my pinkys and not moved to my thumbs, which are most certainly more important and I don't want to lose them any quicker than I have to (which I want to thank rootwyrm again for pointing out).

If anyone is interested I will update you guys with my experience. I am giving the Naos 8200 a try as well, as I don't want to give up gaming on my PC yet if I can help it and I really only feel fatigue in my pinky when using my mouse (and this thing has a pinky tray, an innovation every damn mouse needs to start having). Also, I am going to start a new thread here and on Stack Overflow to get some input on a better key layout for Programming software specifically, so if any coders want to give me some input on their experience in that regard hop on over!

Looking forward to hearing how things go.

I tested just about every mouse I could get a hold of recently and the Naos offered the best hand support by far. The tradeoff of the design, is that it doesn't allow easy gripping of the mouse when you need to lift it. I am really hoping that won't be a problem for the games you want to play. My main concern is stuff like first person shooters where there is, in principle, no limit to how far left or right you might want to turn before turning back the other way. I don't think it will be a problem with any 2D game though, I hardly ever lift my Kone Pure (uses the same sensor) when I am just navigating the desktop or 2D game.

One thing I find helps with avoiding unnecessary mouse lifts is to turn off "enhanced precision" in the windows mouse configuration menu and set pointer speed to 6 (the middle setting). This makes the mouse have a 1:1 relationship with your cursor. Then I adjust the DPI until I can go anywhere on the desktop by moving my mouse around in the available space without lifting. Obviously, while this works for me, it might not work for you, so just take it as something you might want to try.

Rythh · « **Reply #52 on:** Mon, 25 February 2013, 17:41:05 »

Hmmm thank you for that recommended setup Avi, I think I might give it a shot. Lifting the mouse is the most tiring aspect of computing with my mouse, and I don't think I would have thought of that!

Luckily, I won't be playing any FPS with my mouse and keyboard, it is physically easier on me to use my Razer Onza for those with the sticks on the lowest possible sensitivity, so the gaming mouse will be used for my rpg, strategy, or just non-fps games that I like to play.

You have no idea how happy it makes me to hear you think it has the best hand support, until I have to go with some super-different ergonomic type mouse I really do want to be able to use a gaming mouse, so it is good to know it offers some support. Thank you again for introducing me to the mouse (I had never even heard of Mionix before your post)!

Honestly one of the best decisions I have ever made was joining this forum. Just an awesome community.

Burz · « **Reply #53 on:** Mon, 25 February 2013, 18:10:39 »

There is roughly a 13% advantage to Colemak over Dvorak for reducing typing effort. I would consider that significant in your case except that it might not matter as much for programming.

You should think about whether the classic staggered columns are a source of stress. Having learned to touch-type last year and the experience fresh in my memory, I do believe it is stressful because more fine motor control must be exerted in the fingers and wrists. So you might benefit from a Kinesis Advantage, Truly Ergonomic or TypeMatrix (scissor switches). Kinesis will take orders for builds using red or other Cherry MX switches.

The TypeMatrix and the upcoming WASDv2 (classic staggered) have both Colemak and Dvorak switchable layouts built-in.

As for key switch types, I think it will be hit or miss for you. Many/most rubber dome switches that are found on cheap keyboards don't take much force to actuate either and they also bottom-out softly which usually can't be said of mechanical switches. There is also the question of whether switches that actuate too easily will cause you to strain yourself more by exerting more upward effort to keep your fingers above the keys. Yet another factor will be key travel distance (which can be shortened with O rings). Have you ever wandered through computer stores to see if any of the rubber dome boards feel light enough for you?

PS- I was going to recommend that you look into the AlphaGrip hand-held keyboard as another possible alternative but I think I saw somewhere that the key activation force required is over 70g... so perhaps too stiff.

Rythh · « **Reply #54 on:** Mon, 25 February 2013, 18:50:20 »

I do type significantly outside of the world of coding as well, I am always on the computer, so if Colemak truly is 13% better you are most certainly correct in saying it matters for me. Do you know where you found that information? I would love to see true comparisons between some layouts.

If the Realforce turns out to not be as helpful for my situation as I need, the Kinesis Advantage LF or the TrulyErgonomic will be my next choice with some o-rings. I am hoping the Topre keys in the Realforce will really make typing much easier, and the 35g for the pinky fingers sounds effing awesome. I am worried about the fact that it is a regular staggered flat keyboard though, so I am praying that won't offset the gain from the new keys.

The keyboard I use now is a mid-end gaming keyboard, probably close to 70g actuation force if not so across the board, and it is for sure too stiff!

lazerpointer · « **Reply #55 on:** Mon, 25 February 2013, 19:34:11 »

Reading through this is making my hands sweat and tendons feel all sensitive.... God I really hope I never have to deal with this type of problem, and pray you find exactly what you need to type comfortably.

I can confidently second that the Realforce 55g keyboard has to be the most comfortable of all my collection yet. For you, though, probably the 55g is a bit too heavy. Sounds like you would benefit mostly from the variable weight board, since you don't really game a lot. Or 45g uniform if that sounds better for what ever reason.

Edit;
and if you DO game a lot.... wow, that's very bad if your muscles will atrophy over time. I would not recommend it! Save your strength for making the $$$

Rythh · « **Reply #56 on:** Mon, 25 February 2013, 20:51:45 »

When it comes to gaming, it was my first true passion...I have been gaming since I can remember, playing mario on the SNES for hours. It's harder than you can imagine trying to give something like that up because you know it will degenerate you faster. I've already started to give it up partially...one of favorite genre of game was fighting games, which I no longer play because it is too taxing on my muscles. That is a big reason I want a better keyboard and mouse, it's effing unfair that I can't game like I used to and I don't want to quit for as long as I can help it damnit!

However I am not stupid and I know I won't be able to game forever...that's why I want the variable weight, even if it isn't the best for gaming it will be the best for my fingers in the long run (hopefully).

Burz · « **Reply #57 on:** Tue, 26 February 2013, 12:28:24 »

Quote from: Rythh on Mon, 25 February 2013, 18:50:20

I do type significantly outside of the world of coding as well, I am always on the computer, so if Colemak truly is 13% better you are most certainly correct in saying it matters for me. Do you know where you found that information? I would love to see true comparisons between some layouts.

Carpalx is the site people refer to the most when comparing layouts: http://mkweb.bcgsc.ca/carpalx/?colemak

Keep in mind that the analysis assumes that you are touch-typing. A more freestyle or hunt-and-peck technique would throw the numbers off I'm sure.

Quote

If the Realforce turns out to not be as helpful for my situation as I need, the Kinesis Advantage LF or the TrulyErgonomic will be my next choice with some o-rings. I am hoping the Topre keys in the Realforce will really make typing much easier, and the 35g for the pinky fingers sounds effing awesome. I am worried about the fact that it is a regular staggered flat keyboard though, so I am praying that won't offset the gain from the new keys.

You have a sense for what might help you the most, so you need to go with that. I can personally only imagine dealing with your condition, but could see myself favoring the TE or Advantage over the Topre. If I didn't have to switch to a laptop keyboard so often, I would have already gotten one of those boards. Rootwyrm says the Advantage is bad for your condition, so taking that advice leaves you with TE or Topre as a choice. It is a shame there is no ergo board with Topre switches.

vivalarevolución · « **Reply #58 on:** Tue, 26 February 2013, 15:19:41 »

Quote from: Burz on Tue, 26 February 2013, 12:28:24

Rootwyrm says the Advantage is bad for your condition, so taking that advice leaves you with TE or Topre as a choice. It is a shame there is no ergo board with Topre switches.

There is an ergo board with Topre. It's called the µtron keyboard.

http://xahlee.info/kbd/uTRON_keyboard.html

aviphysics · « **Reply #59 on:** Tue, 26 February 2013, 15:35:16 »

Quote from: prdlm2009 on Tue, 26 February 2013, 15:19:41

Quote from: Burz on Tue, 26 February 2013, 12:28:24
Rootwyrm says the Advantage is bad for your condition, so taking that advice leaves you with TE or Topre as a choice. It is a shame there is no ergo board with Topre switches.

There is an ergo board with Topre. It's called the mtron keyboard.

http://xahlee.info/kbd/uTRON_keyboard.html

Looks like a lot of thumb use

Rythh · « **Reply #60 on:** Tue, 26 February 2013, 18:55:50 »

The flat, staggered aspect of the keyboard is the only thing that bothers me a bit, but I hope with Dvorak (where I won't have to leave the homerow as often, hopefully), I can prevent the usual amount of finger stretching that accompanies them. I have heard the Topre keys are as nice to press as the Cherry Reds if not better, so here is to hoping. I really wish the TrulyErgo came with a choice of Reds instead of the Browns, because that is the only thing making me want the Advantage LF over it. I imagine if this board doesn't work out, I am going to try the TrulyErgo for the lower price and hope the browns aren't that bad, especially if I train myself to not bottom out, but with any luck it won't come to that!

The mTron looks really awesome actually, but the abundant use of the thumbs does worry me a bit. On that note, if the Realforce 104U doesn't work out because of the layout but I really like the keys, does anyone know if there is a noticeable ergonomic benefit out of getting the HHKB instead? They look really similar, so I am thinking if the 104U doesn't help me the HHKB won't either, but I would like some opinions on that.

vivalarevolución · « **Reply #61 on:** Tue, 26 February 2013, 19:55:18 »

1===*/The µTron keyboard also sells for 52500 yen ($570) at the moment, not including the shipping from Japan. Only a matter of time before I crack and buy one of those babies. I probably should wait until I at the very least try a Topre board.

sordna · « **Reply #62 on:** Tue, 26 February 2013, 22:48:53 »

The HHKB would force you to use multi-key combinations far more frequently than keyboards with more keys, so it might put a strain on your hands. On the other hand, regular keyboards require more arm movement... not sure which of the 2 is better for your condition. A tenkeyless or 84-key might better a better compromise than an HHKB if you are looking at compact keyboards and want to avoid holding down Fn buttons for normally simple actions such as pushing arrow keys.

Burz · « **Reply #63 on:** Tue, 26 February 2013, 23:42:51 »

TE used to make an older model with MX reds as an option. Contact them and explain your situation, and maybe they can find some old stock or perhaps do a custom-build of a new model.

OnTheBrink · « **Reply #64 on:** Wed, 27 February 2013, 00:15:19 »

Quote from: jabar on Sun, 24 February 2013, 00:25:28

I think the biggest problem with Reds for RSI individuals is bottoming out. Every keypress will result in crashing against the plate, a very high impulse event. Even though the keys would require little force to actuate, there is little to prevent bottoming out.

I don't have a good answer; it depends on the user. Some have issues with keycap resistance and should stick to low cN actuation keys (Reds, Blues, maybe Browns, Topre 45g and below). Some have issues with bottoming out as I said above. The Topre board I am currently typing on bottoms out a lot smoother than any MX switch I've used.

I disagree. I use reds and I don't bottom out when I type. I also use red o-rings.

@ the OP. I hope there are some discoveries in your condition that will help you. I am truly sorry you have to go through such an experience.

Rythh · « **Reply #65 on:** Wed, 27 February 2013, 22:25:29 »

Really Burz!? I might just do that, I would totally be willing to pay a bit extra if they were willing to work with me. I truly think the browns would be a harder key to use, so I wonder how nice of a company they are?

And OnTheBrink, you don't have to be sorry there are many people that have it way worse, I got lucky in most regards!

You words are touching though friend, and with people to help out like this awesome community beating my diseases ass is easy-peasy

Rythh · « **Reply #66 on:** Wed, 27 February 2013, 22:35:51 »

Also! If I wanted to ask all the members of this site if one of them would be willing to let me rent (for a fee or sexual favors!) one of their keyboards that had Cherry MX Reds in it, which topic would I ask in? I will be receiving the 104UB on Saturday to give it a test run, but as most people said I really can only know which kind of board/key would be better by trying them out. I would love to really compare them side by side, but as mentioned I am definitely not able to buy a couple different boards to try them all.

Or does anyone know of another way I could go about achieving this?!

rknize · « **Reply #67 on:** Wed, 27 February 2013, 22:47:25 »

I have a CM Storm Quick Fire Rapid and a WASD V1 sitting here. Both have reds and the WASD has o-rings (the harder ones). You are welcome to try them out for a while if you are willing to cover shipping.

Rythh · « **Reply #68 on:** Wed, 27 February 2013, 22:55:23 »

You are awesome, I can most certainly handle the shipping! Which exact o-rings does the WASD have? I think my fingers wouldn't like the 70-durometer rings as they would probably fatigue them more from the impact but I imagine my best bet is to have the 40A rings from WASD with a Cherry MX Red switch (this is just a thought though, which is why i want to try them), so depending on which type they are will make my choice on which one to borrow from you!

rknize · « **Reply #69 on:** Wed, 27 February 2013, 23:01:42 »

At the time, they only offered the standard black neoprene o-rings, which they now call "50-R black". I recently picked up some of their "40-L red" o-rings, which I can put on the QFR if you prefer. I have to put the key caps back on it anyway.

Rythh · « **Reply #70 on:** Wed, 27 February 2013, 23:10:51 »

50-R black sound great, so on that note can we setup the shipping for your WASD v1?

Thanks a freakin ton man, you are seriously helping me out, and I really appreciate it.

Rythh · « **Reply #71 on:** Sat, 02 March 2013, 23:48:57 »

So I just got the keyboard from Brian today, and wow are the keys making me happy. I couldn't really imagine how nice and easy these keys would be to actuate! I am having fun just typing again, and am really enjoying these Topre keys. I am bottoming out constantly though, and that leads to my next question

Does anyone know a good way to train myself, some exercises or something to try and stop bottoming out? I am invested in getting the most comfortable typing experience I can, and hopefully (thanks to you guys, seriously) I will be able to code without crazy fatigue again :DDDD

These keys are so light, I am curious if it is even possible to prevent bottoming out, even with my weakness haha.

Findecanor · « **Reply #72 on:** Sun, 03 March 2013, 08:52:25 »

The CM Storm QuickFire Rapid with reds is relatively inexpensive and should not be hard to find.

I have a Topre Realforce 105UB, with variable weighting and the pinky keys are indeed very light. I did find the index finger keys to be a bit hard, though. I have used it for 8+ hours every day at work for a couple of months and my right index finger started aching. I don't bottom out on Cherry MX switches, but I can't avoid bottoming out on Topre.

The keyboard with the lightest touch AFAIK, is not a stock keyboard, but a modified one. It would be a keyboard in the Cherry G81 series (such as the Cherry G81-3000), where the coiled springs have been removed from the switches leaving only a very light leaf spring in each switch. The switches are Cherry MY, not the popular Cherry MX. Unmodified MY are quite disliked among enthusiasts on this forum.

The WowPen Joy mouse has a nice shape, and is good for avoiding RSI or CTS, but the buttons are quite hard. I soldered other buttons in place to make it comfortable to use.

Rythh · « **Reply #73 on:** Sun, 03 March 2013, 12:08:05 »

I am feeling like the index fingers are a bit tough, and the space bar is forcing me to begin trying to stop using only my right thumb to hit it and switch between my thumbs because it is a bit tough. This is what I expected though, I want to relearn how to type in a better and more ergonomic way, I just forgot how hard it would be to learn a new layout.

I have the WASD v1 with reds and o-rings incoming soon from rknize so I am excited to give those keys a try. I still want to find the right keys first, and then I want to possibly try an ergonomic layout. I have this thought in my head that the TrulyErgonomic is probably my best bet if they will work with me and give me reds, but I want to give the Realforce a month or so of a workout to see if I really need an ergonomic layout! If I don't I think this board will be the winner that really helps my fatigue.

hoggy · « **Reply #74 on:** Sun, 03 March 2013, 13:28:01 »

Quote from: Findecanor on Sun, 03 March 2013, 08:52:25

The CM Storm QuickFire Rapid with reds is relatively inexpensive and should not be hard to find.

I have a Topre Realforce 105UB, with variable weighting and the pinky keys are indeed very light. I did find the index finger keys to be a bit hard, though. I have used it for 8+ hours every day at work for a couple of months and my right index finger started aching. I don't bottom out on Cherry MX switches, but I can't avoid bottoming out on Topre.

The keyboard with the lightest touch AFAIK, is not a stock keyboard, but a modified one. It would be a keyboard in the Cherry G81 series (such as the Cherry G81-3000), where the coiled springs have been removed from the switches leaving only a very light leaf spring in each switch. The switches are Cherry MY, not the popular Cherry MX. Unmodified MY are quite disliked among enthusiasts on this forum.

The WowPen Joy mouse has a nice shape, and is good for avoiding RSI or CTS, but the buttons are quite hard. I soldered other buttons in place to make it comfortable to use.

The lightest current production board I'm aware of is http://www.fentek-ind.com/split_magic.htm

Just 20g of force.

Rythh · « **Reply #75 on:** Sat, 30 March 2013, 23:35:15 »

Okay time to revive this thread a bit. I have given the Realforce 104UB a heavy workout, and most recently I gave a WASD v1 with cherry reds and O-rings a try for a couple weeks. Tonight is the first night I switched back to the Realforce, and it brought up a few questions I didn't even realize before I tried the WASD.

First, does anyone know why the spacebar is so much more difficult to actuate than the rest of the keys? When I first got the board, I was switching from a rubber-dome, so I did not actually realize at first how difficult the spacebar is compared to the rest of the keys. However, after using cherry reds for a couple weeks, I don't understand why it was SO much easier to push the spacebar on the WASD. Comparing them side-by-side makes it feel like the actuation force for the realforce spacebar is freakin 100g's (which obviously it isn't, but it most certainly does NOT feel like 45g). Using the realforce actually generates thumb fatigue somewhat quickly, whereas the cherry reds generated nearly no fatigue after a long night of coding. I do not understand the spacebar at all, and it very well might remove the realforce from consideration all by itself.

Second, again comparing the keys side by side, it still ends up feeling like the cherry reds are a lighter key to use than the keys of the realforce (aside from the pinky finger keys, those feel very good at 35g, and I can definitely tell they are better on my pinky fingers than the reds). Other than the pinky finger keys, it feels like every key is more tiring than the Cherry Reds, even though they should be the exact same actuation force. Now, this is simply a by-use comparison and I could be wrong, but it just seems like the Reds are easier. Is there a reason the Topre, which are rated at 45g, would be more difficult to actuate than Reds of the same rating? Possibly how they are implemented?

My hands are most certainly enjoying these lighter keys, but it disappoints me that I may not be able to use the Realforce in the long-term when they have made my pinky fingers so much happier than they used to be. I really might need to somehow get a board that uses 35g on every key, since the 45g just do not feel like 45g.

What do you guys think?

Rythh · « **Reply #76 on:** Tue, 02 April 2013, 21:11:15 »

On a related note, does anyone know of any boards that come with an actuation force of around 35g's uniform? I have been loving the pinky keys on the realforce, and using it prevents almost all fatigue on my pinkys even through heavy use. In fact, my pinkys get so used to not having to try so hard that on the rare occasions I have to type on a regular rubber-dome I have to actually remember to put much more force into my keypress.

rknize · « **Reply #77 on:** Tue, 02 April 2013, 21:22:25 »

I'm sure you could pay someone to set you up with a keyboard with modified Cherry MX linear switches (either red or black) using Korean springs. Obviously it will cost you more, but you would get the kinds of actuation forces that you are looking for. There are folks here that sell those services.

You might want to think about the additional hand strain that may come from having such a light switch. The weight of your larger fingers may result in accidental key presses if control becomes more difficult.

davkol · « **Reply #78 on:** Wed, 03 April 2013, 02:12:48 »

Quote from: Rythh on Tue, 02 April 2013, 21:11:15

On a related note, does anyone know of any boards that come with an actuation force of around 35g's uniform?

Goldtouch Adjustable Keyboard, it's usually closer to 40 cN, but the ones I got in a GB were more like 35 cN. If you were in Europe, I could ship you one.

hoggy · « **Reply #79 on:** Sat, 06 April 2013, 14:46:47 »

They can be had on eBay for cheap. Good keyboard, I recommend them from time to time.

intrio · « **Reply #80 on:** Sat, 07 March 2015, 17:37:57 »

Adding onto this thread. I have similar needs from tendonsis, being a hardcore programmer/gamer for so many years.

What I'm currently using is scissor action BTC mini multimedia keyboard, which I think has 50-65 activation force, low distance travelled, soft bottoming out.

I found a couple years ago going to Fry's and trying every keyboard out there to see if any were close, and this has beat out Apple keyboards, and even my fingerworks touchstream for normal use. On the bonus they are super cheap. Sadly they aren't made anymore, but can be found on ebay from time to time. BTC still makes keyboards and the newer ones might be similar.

However I'd like to get to something even lower force and something that I can hack to my needs.

vindigo · « **Reply #81 on:** Sun, 08 March 2015, 14:53:17 »

A few things I can add:

As others have mentioned, lighter springs can purchased and installed in Cherry MX keys, and linear keys (i.e. Reds) can be configured with the lightest springs. When changing springs the keys may also be lubricated. Springs are much easier to changes on a keyboard with PCB mounted non-backlit keys.

Stabilizers can change the feel of shift, and other long stabilized keys. For me, stock Cherry stabilizers seem to tire my pinkies. Ensure your stabilizers not aggravating your condition.

I personally prefer linear keys over tactile because over extended typing, the tactile bump seem to make my fingers and wrists twitchy and nervy as I actively try to check my keystroke, while the key falls away below the tactile bump.

The Wacom tablet is a good mouse alternative, and is operated like handwriting.

Some programming editors are very powerful, and can be used to minimize keystrokes.
Emacs in default configuration can be troublesome for pinkies due to high use of modifier keys (****, Ctrl, etc.). However, checkout "ErogEmacs" where programming can be done almost entirely with voice commands:http://ergoemacs.org/emacs/using_voice_to_code.html

There a game for the Vim editor called "Vim Golf" where the challenge is to modify text with surprisingly minimal keystrokes. For a friend, I investigated using voice commands for Vim on OSX, and it appeared that, with some hours of effort, the OSX "speakables" feature could be configured to send voice commands to Vim.

Good luck.

Oobly · « **Reply #82 on:** Mon, 09 March 2015, 07:12:31 »

A split board (perhaps an ErgoDox or Axios?) or a better layout linked board (Kinesis Advantage, Maltron or Atreus) with lightweight linears (Reds or Blacks with 50g or lower "Korean" springs) and "trampolines" (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50632.0) may be just the ticket.

Light actuation force, soft bottom out (although you can learn to not bottom out since the switches actuate at 2mm) and a more ergonomic layout (and many of the ones I mentioned are fully programmable, too). With the trampoline mod you can actually use a longer piece of oring to shorten the travel as well as provide a soft bottom out.

intrio · « **Reply #83 on:** Thu, 19 March 2015, 23:36:58 »

Following Tim Tyler's lead I hacked my trackball's buttons using low force (.08N) Omron microswitches. I so wish I had done this years ago, only after a few hours my Thumb loves them so far and it's so intuitive now, click, double click, scroll, right click, copy and paste.

I figure the work performed is about 10x-100x less than prior. The new switches are 8g vs 90g of force, and the distance travelled to reach and to activate is 2x-8x, as well I can now use all 4 buttons with a minimal amount of reach, some like scroll mean I don't have to hold the button down all the time, and use macros like cut/copy from the combos, which allow some one handed operation.

I will order a bunch more of the switches (still playing with force) then will create a keyboard out of them next, likely using the guts from an older one of mine, in a similar layout, and another in a datahand like format. As far as I know this is one of the lower force switches in existance, with for me good but not annoying tacile feedback, that are small enough to put into an even smaller form factor.

Parak · « **Reply #84 on:** Fri, 20 March 2015, 00:10:21 »

Quote from: intrio on Sat, 07 March 2015, 17:37:57

Adding onto this thread. I have similar needs from tendonsis, being a hardcore programmer/gamer for so many years.

<snip>

Gateron Clears are 35g linear switches that are quite nice. You could get an ergodox kit from massdrop (whenever they do it again) and drop those in there.

Macsmasher · « **Reply #85 on:** Fri, 20 March 2015, 14:49:35 »

I'm also a coder working in Windows. I switched to Topre switches several years ago because the hard bottoming out on my Cherry brown board would make my knuckles ache by the end of the day. My primary keyboard now is a Realforce variable and I love it.

For coders, keyboard shortcuts are very important. One of the best layout change you can do is swap Caps Lock with Ctrl. This places Ctrl on home row and is so much better when doing copy/paste/undo shortcuts. Your Realforce will have a dip switch for this option and I highly recommend it.

I switched to Colemak a little over a year ago and am very happy with the layout. I of course considered Dvorak as well as a few others, but settled on Colemak as the best option for me. That's partly because Dvorak isn't as keyboard shortcut friendly as Colemak.

This is an interesting site I found when considering my layout change:

http://patorjk.com/keyboard-layout-analyzer/#/main

You can paste your own code text into the analyzer to see which layout it recommends. Even though Dvorak would come out on top in some of my sampled text, I still opted for Colemak because of the keyboard shortcut advantage.

intrio · « **Reply #86 on:** Fri, 20 March 2015, 15:46:05 »

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Qateron Clears are 35g linear switches that are quite nice. You could get an ergodox kit from massdrop (whenever they do it again) and drop those in there.

I had thought of that, but the microswitches I got to test are 8g, 10g, 16g, 20g. I liked the 8g-16g, and found 20g too hard for ideal. As well these are smaller, and the layout I'll do will end up being more compact likely than a traditional keyboard.

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Author Topic: Best Ergonomic Keyboard and key layout for disabled programmer with weak fingers (Read 27410 times)