Very strange behavior of IBM Model M - defective?

[fraglord]

Hello guys,

I have a problem with a model M that i got offered for good price. Unfortunately the label on the bottom is gone, but heres some info: blue IBM logo, fixed PS/2 cable, drainage holes, german layout. The label on the inside of the keyboard is still there and it says "1386716" and manufactured 1994 in UK.
Very strange: when I connect it to a computer the keyboard is fully functional when I am in BIOS, all keys work, NumLock, CapsLock etc. all fine. BUT when I boot to windows after a few seconds (and keystrokes) the keyboard is not working anymore, I can't even log in. NumLock stays on and no response to any key at all. After a reset and going back to BIOS it's all fine again there.
I tried different computers, also those who confirmed to work with another Model M. But always the same.
Any ideas what could cause this issue and how to fix it?

[h2gofast]

Based on your troubleshooting it's the keyboard.  Has it ever gotten wet?  Spill channels or not, if moisture gets in the wrong places it can create odd behaviour.  I had a model m that I spilled coffee on.  For a month or so every time I plugged it in, it would be fine for the first five minutes then the j and k keys would only output a k.  I let it sit over a heater vent and forgot about it.  Plugged it in a few weeks ago and it now works fine.   

[niftyprose]

This reminds me of an ancient anecdote I heard about a computer maintenance engineer. (This may sound irrelevant, but bear with me.)  He was called to the house of a home user whose dog was fine with her PC as long as she was running in DOS mode. When she launched Windows, the dog went crazy. THe engineer eventually found a crack in the monitor casing, which caused it to whistle in the ultrasonic range -- but only when it was running at the higher refresh rate required by Windows.

I'm wondering if for some reason Windows is polling the keyboard at a different frequency from the BIOS, and if that might have an impact. (Someone who knows PCs better than me will have to advise on this.) First suggestion: does it work if you boot in DOS mode (if available)?

Best, W.

[OnTheBrink]

If your keyboard is behaving strangely, a good time out or spanking should do the trick. 

[fraglord]

Now it really gets weird: just booted Ubuntu Live-CD and guess what; keyboard works flawless on all computers! But back on Windows 7 or 8 still no luck. Moments after the login screen appears the keyboard is not working.

And to make it even more confusing: other PS/2 keyboards (Cherry) work fine on all computers and all operating systems!

[0100010]

Are you using a PS2 to USB adapter?

[fraglord]

No, native PS2 on all computers.

[h2gofast]

It's a message, although I'm not sure Ubuntu is the right path,  try Linux Mint. 

[fraglord]

It's a message, although I'm not sure Ubuntu is the right path,  try Linux Mint. 

That will help me how to make it work under windows?

[rootwyrm]

... *headdesk*

No, based on his troubleshooting, it is NOT the keyboard because it WORKS IN THE BIOS. Holy crap. How did you get 'broken keyboard' from 'works in BIOS?!' Dear gods.

Windows 7 has certain bad behaviors (which it inherited from various previous Windows in various fashions) related to USB HID and PS/2 initialization. What's puzzling in this situation is that it stopping working? That's NORMAL. There's a reset cycle in there by design to make sure a HID didn't go away. The problem is that the driver's apparently not completing load or expecting a different keyboard to be present. If you previously had a USB keyboard attached, you're going to need to reattach it, boot Windows with both keyboards, and see if it still loses the PS/2. If it doesn't, you're going to need USBdeview to completely remove the USB keyboard after you unplug it.

[h2gofast]

Chillax wyrm, Just because it works in the BIOS doesn't mean it doesn't **** the bed once it's been running for a bit.  That's exactly the behavior I witnessed on a Model M SSK, after I spilled on the keys.  And I was running Linux.  It would work fine for five minutes then the j and k keys would start outputting only k's, or l's I don't remember which.  But I do remember that a reboot would make it work for a few minutes before it misbehaved.  So there is a precedent.   I changed cables and PC's and everything.    This alone doesn't necessarily eliminate Windows as a suspect, until he mentioned that it worked without issue in Linux.  So yes you have a point because it runs in Linux without a hiccup. 

Unless your work mandates it or you need an app that only runs in Windows, make the leap, you'll be glad you did.  And it's always easier to go backwards to Windows.  It's moving forward that's more demanding.

Cheers

[rootwyrm]

Chillax wyrm, Just because it works in the BIOS doesn't mean it doesn't **** the bed once it's been running for a bit.

Uh, no. That is pretty much exactly what it does mean on an M unless you completely butchered a rebuild and/or have no idea how PS/2 works and why you can't hotplug PS/2. And the only M where there is an overheat potential causing dropout is the TrackPoint I M13 in two conditions - faulty resistor and removed heatshield. No other failure state works in BIOS without issue - it's broke in the BIOS, and it's broke on the wire. Unfortunately, most BIOSes are now shipping 'Pause on no error' or built with the ignore stuck key feature enabled.

Demanding someone nuke their OS and files and switch to Linux because 'Window$ suckzz' is completely and utterly unhelpful and useless, and doesn't fix a damn thing. A LiveCD is sufficient but still overkill for verifying the behavior I described, which is a long known issue with multiple versions of Windows. One which is easily correctable without reinstalling, much less switching OSes for religious reasons.

[mich]

I don't recommend Ubuntu, but something like Arch, Gentoo or Slackware would be a good choice. Maybe even Debian.

Is it few seconds or few keystrokes? Or both? Or either, whichever comes first?
How many keystrokes? Any key or some particular keys?

[h2gofast]

Chillax wyrm, Just because it works in the BIOS doesn't mean it doesn't **** the bed once it's been running for a bit.

Uh, no. That is pretty much exactly what it does mean on an M unless you completely butchered a rebuild and/or have no idea how PS/2 works and why you can't hotplug PS/2. And the only M where there is an overheat potential causing dropout is the TrackPoint I M13 in two conditions - faulty resistor and removed heatshield. No other failure state works in BIOS without issue - it's broke in the BIOS, and it's broke on the wire. Unfortunately, most BIOSes are now shipping 'Pause on no error' or built with the ignore stuck key feature enabled.

Demanding someone nuke their OS and files and switch to Linux because 'Window$ suckzz' is completely and utterly unhelpful and useless, and doesn't fix a damn thing. A LiveCD is sufficient but still overkill for verifying the behavior I described, which is a long known issue with multiple versions of Windows. One which is easily correctable without reinstalling, much less switching OSes for religious reasons.

Dude,  I don't know who you're arguing with, but it's not me.  I just accurately reported my experience with a Model M ssk that got wet.  Booting into linux it would exhibit strange behavior, but only after a few minutes.  Leaving it on a heater vent for awhile solved the problem.   Then I recommended linux as an alternative.  I didn't tell him to nuke his OS or his files. 

I'm with mich,  Ubuntu isn't a bad place to start but I don't recommend it either.  The learning curve for Arch, Gentoo and Slack is steeper than other Distro's, but I will say that the documentation for Arch is awesome and will take you anywhere you want to go.  Arch is an excellent learning experience about how a computer really works.  Just read the update notes on the Arch front page before updating.  I only suggested Linux Mint because it's where I think Ubuntu should have went.
cheers,

[fraglord]

Well, the keyboard becomes inactive a few seconds after windows has finished booting.

That it works in linux won't help me much as changing the operating system isn't a solution.

I am very well aware of the problems with windows 7 and 8 if you use a PS2 device. Like when you connect a USB keyboard and then later reconnect the PS2 keyboard the drive sometimes not load etc. But thats not the case here as like I said, other PS2 keyboards work fine.

[compgeke]

Do you have a PS/2 to USB adapter? If so, it might be worth checking to see if it works on that as that can help see if it's a PS/2 interface problem, or if it's something with the keyboard itself.

[TacticalCoder]

Do you have a PS/2 to USB adapter? If so, it might be worth checking to see if it works on that as that can help see if it's a PS/2 interface problem, or if it's something with the keyboard itself.

Either way a PS/2 to USB adapter like the "blue cube" is very convenient because you suddenly can hot plug your old M's in your system.  So I highly recommend OP to order a good PS/2 to USB adapter anyway...

[fraglord]

Might be worth a try.any ideas where to get this in germany for a reasonable price?