Author Topic: Sick of Logitech...  (Read 6004 times)

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Offline SOROBORU88

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Sick of Logitech...
« on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 05:47:09 »
Hello everyone, I just wonder, if there is a non Logitech mouse witch next specs:

- no software needed
- no side scrolling
- centered sensor
- wired
- reliable
- cheap

I've had 3 Logitech mice (G9, M510, OEM) and all of them are useless. They even started to degrade...

Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 06:16:26 »
I think logitech has both some nice and some horrible mice. For example, the G400 has a very good optical sensor, no acceleration or prediction, sensible weight etc. The G500 on the other hand has a laser sensor with acceleration that does not track well on cloth, an off-center sensor, weighs a ton (and the weight is distributed in a weird way), awful scroll wheel for gaming (wobbly and hard to click) etc.

If you want to go without hassle and without driver, and want something that works, then I can recommend some of the mice Zowie makes, provided that their shape fits your anatomy and playstyle. I have the Zowie FK, which has a nice optical sensor that is more accurate and reliable than most mice out there. It is driver/softwarel-less. So settings like DPI and polling rate are changed directly on the mouse. The only problem is that, while not as expensive as some high end mice, they are not exactly cheap. One reason why my peripherals are without software (Sennheiser HD518 headphones with zalman clip on mic, Zowie FK mouse, Majestouch 2 keyboard) is because I also got sick of all the crappy software I ran into over the years. I figured I do not need it, and I was right.
« Last Edit: Thu, 28 March 2013, 06:21:28 by Grim Fandango »
Mouse Guide 2.0: A list of mice with superior sensors and more.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=56240.0

Offline lazerpointer

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 06:17:01 »
You will find overwhelming support for the g400 here.

I'm of the opinion that the Razer Deathadder 3.5g (I think they used the twin eye sensor in the newest "2013" one. Correct me if I'm wrong. That sensor moves the cursor down and to the right every time you lift.) is the best shape and performance.
« Last Edit: Thu, 28 March 2013, 06:21:06 by Flip »
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Offline TheSoulhunter

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 06:17:16 »
Hello!
Perhaps your question is like asking for a car that has lots of power, doesn't consume much fuel, is very safe, looks nice and doesn't cost much...
If Logitech would give the G400 a sturdier cable and onboard memory it would match your list, but both will probably raise the price, so it wont be cheap.

Anyway, I'd go for the G400  :))

Offline SOROBORU88

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 06:26:23 »
Well, I knew there is a certain praise to G400, but does it need software? And by cheap I mean under cca. 50 USD. What about Xornet? Thank you for your answers.

Offline TheSoulhunter

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 06:32:05 »
Well, I knew there is a certain praise to G400, but does it need software? And by cheap I mean under cca. 50 USD. What about Xornet? Thank you for your answers.

What I remember it works without software...
But to configure the buttons or DPI you need the software, also to actually use your custom settings afterwards as the mouse lacks on-board memory to store the settings.

Offline lazerpointer

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 06:33:09 »
I have a Very lightly used one for ya. 25 shipped. Pm me
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Offline vun

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 06:52:37 »
Have a look at the CM Storm Xornet or the Razer Abyssus.
Also, the G400 can easily be used without software and I can highly recommend it.

You will find overwhelming support for the g400 here.

I'm of the opinion that the Razer Deathadder 3.5g (I think they used the twin eye sensor in the newest "2013" one. Correct me if I'm wrong. That sensor moves the cursor down and to the right every time you lift.) is the best shape and performance.
DA2013 still uses a proper optical sensor with beefed up dpi, not the infamous PTE.

Well, I knew there is a certain praise to G400, but does it need software? And by cheap I mean under cca. 50 USD. What about Xornet? Thank you for your answers.

What I remember it works without software...
But to configure the buttons or DPI you need the software, also to actually use your custom settings afterwards as the mouse lacks on-board memory to store the settings.
AFAIK you can use the dpi switchers on the G400 to cycle between preset dpi settings, so it's no different than something like a Xornet.
« Last Edit: Thu, 28 March 2013, 06:54:31 by vun »

Offline SOROBORU88

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 07:16:37 »
Well, G400 looks good, but I can't rid off the feeling that I would certainly beat it witch sledgehammer just for being Logitech branded...

Abyssus looks good too, bud seems kind of overpriced in my country. I can't even buy things from another Europe vendors, because the shipping is too high and doesn't make it much cheaper. 

And Zowie mice are especially expensive here.

Offline SmallFry

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 07:23:52 »
Paint/carbon fiber (DI-NOC) wrap it to appease your smashing wants.

Offline vun

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 07:25:47 »
Well, G400 looks good, but I can't rid off the feeling that I would certainly beat it witch sledgehammer just for being Logitech branded...

Abyssus looks good too, bud seems kind of overpriced in my country. I can't even buy things from another Europe vendors, because the shipping is too high and doesn't make it much cheaper. 

And Zowie mice are especially expensive here.
Hm, in my experience Logitech mice, possibly with the exception of the first G9, are some of the most reliable out there, and if you should get unlucky they have great customer support to take care of you.

Offline SmallFry

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 07:32:25 »
I agree that Logitech Customer Support is superb. They took very good care of me when I was missing a single weight from my G500 when I purchased it. They overnighted a new weight tin with a full set for me. :D

Offline SOROBORU88

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 08:07:01 »
Customer Support in the Czech Republic? If ever saying "***** please" was convenient, it is now :D I have a first G9 and it was a huge dissapointment. Not going to buy logitech ever again. Not to mention everything here is extremely overpriced. I'm choosing between Xornet and Abyssus. Is there any other mouse with no software need and no sidescrolling?

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 08:12:12 »
I'm using an Abyssus at work and it's amazing. I'm actually considering swapping my DA13 that I'm using at home with it.

Offline RatPatrol01

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 08:20:00 »
If you can still find one, the Steelseries Xai hits pretty much all your requirements, so does the Steelseries Sensei but it's not cheap.

Kana and Kinzu v2 are also options but they are more reliant on drivers and have less functionality the Xai and Sensei.

Offline TheSoulhunter

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 08:30:48 »
AFAIK you can use the dpi switchers on the G400 to cycle between preset dpi settings, so it's no different than something like a Xornet.

Correct, but just the default ones, not custom ones you set in the software because the mouse has no onboard memory to store the settings...
Anyway, if the default DPI settings work out for you, and you don't want to change the default key functions, the G400 will work fine without drivers :)

Offline vun

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 08:34:40 »
Customer Support in the Czech Republic? If ever saying "***** please" was convenient, it is now :D I have a first G9 and it was a huge dissapointment. Not going to buy logitech ever again. Not to mention everything here is extremely overpriced. I'm choosing between Xornet and Abyssus. Is there any other mouse with no software need and no sidescrolling?
Logitech customer support is the same in all of Europe.
Also, the first G9 should not influence your opinion of Logitech as a whole as from what I've gathered that was a problematic mouse, but the G9x upgrade is a fantastic mouse. Of all the mice I have and have tried Logitech makes the most solid ones by far.
The Abyssus is a great mouse, but just be wary that Razer has poor quality control and that the risk of getting a dud is higher than most other brands. I would suggest buying one from a source that won't give you any problems if you need to return it or get a replacement.
I can't speak for the Xornet, but from what I've heard about it and its predecessor that's probably your best bet.

Another no-BS mouse I can recommend is the MS IME 3.0, no need for any software since there's nothing to configure apart from the two side buttons.

AFAIK you can use the dpi switchers on the G400 to cycle between preset dpi settings, so it's no different than something like a Xornet.

Correct, but just the default ones, not custom ones you set in the software because the mouse has no onboard memory to store the settings...
Anyway, if the default DPI settings work out for you, and you don't want to change the default key functions, the G400 will work fine without drivers :)
You can't set custom dpi on the Abyssus or Xornet either, they both let you switch between 3 preset settings. So the G400 without software will not be inferior to something like the Abyssus, which was my point.
Also, most optical sensors are somewhat limited in dpi steps anyway, so there's not all that much more you can do even if you install the software.
« Last Edit: Thu, 28 March 2013, 08:37:15 by vun »

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 08:36:06 »
What are reliable sources for Razer mice/Abyssus vun? I bought mine from Amazon.

Offline vun

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 08:38:26 »
What are reliable sources for Razer mice/Abyssus vun? I bought mine from Amazon.
I bought mine in a physical store, although I can't say much about US since I live on the other side of the globe. Though I suppose buying directly from Razer is ok if you're in the US.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 08:39:32 »
What are reliable sources for Razer mice/Abyssus vun? I bought mine from Amazon.
I bought mine in a physical store, although I can't say much about US since I live on the other side of the globe. Though I suppose buying directly from Razer is ok if you're in the US.

Microcenter carries a lot of Razer and other mice but I'm not sure if they do price matching. Otherwise, its cheaper to buy from Amazon or wait for a Razer sale.

Offline davkol

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 09:06:04 »
Customer Support in the Czech Republic? If ever saying "***** please" was convenient, it is now :D

Support is as good as the store, and you get 3-year warranty.

Offline davkol

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 09:15:05 »
BTW if you're interested in an WMO, pm me.

Offline SOROBORU88

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 10:00:58 »
I once had a experience with Logitech customer service and it was because of their Unity sensor. When you have a wireless mouse and keyboard and want them to work with only one USB sensor. Signal was droping out. Solution? For two straight days no answer, and then they send an email saying - "Return to seller." And that's it. No good evening, no thank you, no nothing. I was so pissed...

I worked the problem by myself. I removed the sensor from computer case and put it on the USB cable and taped it to the table near the mouse/keyboard drawer. Since then it works quite good. My father likes the wireless keyboard (K360).

I hate it when I have to contact customer support. In my case they either don't know nothing, or the only thing they can do is to tell me, that I have to send it back to seller. And seller itself wants me to sell to authorised service center!!! It's like I have to work my own problem with the product they sold me and which is still in warranty!!! We have two HP notebook in our family and they both started to have problem with keyboard (never gonna buy HP notebook again) and both sellers told me to send to service by myself.

And this is how it works in the Czech Republic. When you buy something and it breaks down, seller puts his hands away from sold product and it's YOUR DAMN PROBLEM!!! Legal system allows you to send it quietly to the seller and they work it yout because by the law they must, but not many people know or do that.

Logitech pisses me. Even my fathers M510s scrollwheeel starts to slow down, its difficult to roll it... He has had the mouse for 4 months...


Offline SOROBORU88

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 12:50:02 »
Now I'm looking at Microsoft Comfort Mouse 6000. Is it as cool as MS IE 3? I like the minimalism, no "gaming" feature, side buttons, it's MS, so it should work with W7 flawlessly. But the sensor worries me. Bluetrack? I heard it shakes...

Offline davkol

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 14:18:04 »
I've heard the wheel doesn't feel solid (quite the opposite, actually) on the new Microsoft mice. That's the reason I haven't bought one.

If you're fine with claw/fingertip grip, xornet works just fine.

Offline SOROBORU88

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 28 March 2013, 17:54:53 »
Pity, MS CM looks like a good mouse. I'm not a fingertip user (mainly), but I hold the mouse in many ways. I'm sure I would figure it out :) I am happy that you all recommend me the mice I've already found. This forum gave me a lot of experience.

When G400 came in the Czech Republic, I ordered one. But they wanted an advance payment but didn't want to send the mouse for almost a month. I had to threaten them with court and EU department fines... After then they finally returned my money back. I guess that G400 never wanted to be my mouse :/

Best experience I've had was with Genius mice. I have two and from time to time I return to them and they always work the same way. When I want to use G9 I have to install certain build of SetPoint and spend half an hour of setting and tweaking. No to mention I hate that the mouse squekas when I squeeze it in my hand. I'm probably going to sell it both with M510 when the time is right.

Offline stingrae

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 00:36:34 »
The new RAT 3 (3500dpi) should run without software.

Other mice that are worth a try (and maybe you will be able to find one): CM Storm recon/spawn, Roccat Savu, Genius Maurus.

You sort of need software to set up the genius maurus mostly where as I know the RAT 3 comes with a dpi switcher. Both are affordable. I am using the maurus over the abyssus but hmm the abyssus is my next choice as the RAT3 is a bit more expensive. I tried the G400 didn't like the buttons or scroll wheel at all...
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Offline SOROBORU88

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 01:05:58 »
Abyssus looks kind of small. But the reviews give him a lot of credit. I like the clean ambidexterous design, similar to my Genius mice, wchich are comfortable to hold. But there is a certain problem with the mousepad, because Abyssus is rather picky.

I was thinking about maurus (the old and the new), but the side button worries me. I believe there is only one on the both sides, so there is no previous/next page like other mice. What about the quality of Maurus and other Genius gaming mice? I believe Genius even has his own mousepads?

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 01:44:39 »
Side scrolling middle mouse buttons are the invention of the devil.

Offline stingrae

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #29 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 02:30:06 »
Abyssus looks kind of small. But the reviews give him a lot of credit. I like the clean ambidexterous design, similar to my Genius mice, wchich are comfortable to hold. But there is a certain problem with the mousepad, because Abyssus is rather picky.

I was thinking about maurus (the old and the new), but the side button worries me. I believe there is only one on the both sides, so there is no previous/next page like other mice. What about the quality of Maurus and other Genius gaming mice? I believe Genius even has his own mousepads?

The right side button is hard to use but not a train smash (since I went from abyssus which has no side buttons), the side buttons are back and forward this design is similar to the kana and some dell mice. Overall the mouse is pretty nice some may dislike it as it has a glossy plastic finish but has slightly rubberized sides. Mouse buttons are easier to click than abyssus and scroll wheel is tactile but smooth. I've only had it for a few weeks but I really enjoy it. It is however as small as the abyssus but not as long and a bit taller.
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Offline SOROBORU88

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #30 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 04:47:07 »
Well, since the Abyssus has the same sensor as DeathAdder and the scroll wheel is solid, I'm pretty much interested in it. Problem might be mousepad, wchich should probably be Razer. Can anybody recommend an Abyssus-friendly mousepad? And is Abyssus durable and long lasting mouse?

I don't really need side buttons. My Genius mice don't have them and I'm fine with that. I learned to use shortcuts and it is pleasure to use them on my Keycool :)

Sidescrolling on mice is crime against humanity. I believe it is main reason why so many Logitech scrollwheels tend to stop turning at some point.

Offline vun

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #31 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 04:50:07 »
Well, since the Abyssus has the same sensor as DeathAdder and the scroll wheel is solid, I'm pretty much interested in it. Problem might be mousepad, wchich should probably be Razer. Can anybody recommend an Abyssus-friendly mousepad? And is Abyssus durable and long lasting mouse?

I don't really need side buttons. My Genius mice don't have them and I'm fine with that. I learned to use shortcuts and it is pleasure to use them on my Keycool :)

Sidescrolling on mice is crime against humanity. I believe it is main reason why so many Logitech scrollwheels tend to stop turning at some point.
The Abyssus will work on most regular mousepads, you don't need one made by Razer to use it. You don't even need a mousepad, it'll probably work just fine without except that the glide will be uncomfortable and the feet will wear fast.
Just get whatever mousepad that gives you the glide you want, sensors aren't picky and don't care if the pad is made by Razer, SteelSeries, Artisan or whatever.

And the Abyssus should last for a while since it's fairly simple so not much that can go wrong with it, but then again it's Razer so you never know.

Offline SOROBORU88

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 05:06:13 »
Well, if it's true, I don't have to buy a new mousepad. But my Qck Mini deserves a retirement with honor after 4 years of every day work :) Therefore I'm thinking Sphex might be a good option.

Does anyone have a long term experience with Abyssus?

Offline file_id

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #33 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 06:07:52 »
Quote
Hello everyone, I just wonder, if there is a non Logitech mouse witch next specs:

- no software needed
- no side scrolling
- centered sensor
- wired
- reliable
- cheap

I have a zowie mico, which is a throwback to the old logitech mice but with a better sensor and 3 dpi settings.

DS3 White YOTS (Blue)|Poker 2 (Blue,Clear)|QFR Rapid-i TKL (Brown,Blue)|QFR Rapid TKL (Blue,Red,Brown)|KBP V60 (Blue,Clear,Matias Click)|Code TKL Clear|Filco MJ2 TKL (Blue)|Filco MJ2 Ninja Beige TKL (Brown)|Novatouch

Offline SOROBORU88

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 06:54:45 »
Looks nice :) Any comparison with Abyssus? Zowie gear is hard to get here.

Offline Photekq

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #35 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 12:08:49 »
Qpad 5K checks all of your boxes.
https://kbdarchive.org/
github
discord: hi mum#5710

Offline SOROBORU88

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Re: Sick of Logitech...
« Reply #36 on: Fri, 29 March 2013, 14:01:53 »
For almost 70 € it isn't cheap :D But looks good and specs are amazing :D There is no oficial seller in the Czech Republic.