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Author Topic: Model M terminal to USB?  (Read 6640 times)

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Offline ZoGxll

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Model M terminal to USB?
« on: Tue, 14 May 2013, 08:07:53 »
So I have been wanting a model M and I have been noticing a lot of them on Ebay for super cheap, but they are terminal ones with RJ45 connectors.  Is there a simple way to convert these to USB?
I have seen something about a 'soarer converter' but I'm not sure if it will work on these models because I don't understand the more detailed tech stuff yet. 

Here is the link to the adapter I was talking about:  http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=28268.0

and here is the Ebay auction http://www.ebay.com/itm/IBM-Model-M-Vintage-Clicky-Keyboard-P-N-1392595-w-RJ45-Connector-/251272869658?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item3a8107b71a

I assume this can't work because this guy is selling 75 model Ms for 10 bucks and it seems like they would have been eaten up if they were usable.

Thanks!
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Model M terminal to USB?
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 14 May 2013, 08:38:14 »
That is an excellent deal, I have been looking at it too, just for parts.

Soarer's Converter works great, but costs $20, which brings the price up to about what a standard M costs.

It will take more than a cable swap to make this happen.
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 July 2013, 14:34:52 by fohat.digs »
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Offline KandiKat

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Re: Model M terminal to USB?
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 13:32:28 »
He'll sell them for $8.00 and combine shipping, but he's a complete a**  >:D... I'd been looking for a Model M for myself and found his listing when it was new...Didn't realize these were "terminal" keyboards and thought it was just a really great deal. I bought 10 to clean up (they're filthy, btw) and sell to raise a little extra money for my wedding. I'm a 911 dispatcher and we use Model Ms, some of which are ps2 some are usb, so I expected that an adapter would be needed, but upon further research, found that while I'm moderately computer savvy, the hacks and conversions needed for these keyboards were waaaay beyond my pay grade.

I emailed him regarding a return, since the listing says nothing about being terminal only and the average buyer would assume that "fully functional" should mean they are compatible (with perhaps a bit of extra effort/minor adapter fix) with modern PCs. He was completely rude and while he agreed to accept the return, I clicked the wrong return code for eBay so he's insisting I pay the shipping. I got all 10 with shipping for $110 ($80 for the items and $30 for the shipping). I don't know how he did it, but I can't find shipping for less than about $90. The same week my (now) husband flew in from Ft Knox (he's stationed there) for our trip to Vegas, wedding and reception. I was busy and irritated with the guy and decided not to go to the trouble of returning them for the $20 I'd get back.

Anyhow, I'd be happy to sell you one or more of mine, I'll even clean them up for you. If you're interested, I'd just be happy to break even at $8 +shipping. You can email me or look me up on eBay "cammiebelle" and I can post a listing if you'd like to go thru them..If not, just thought I'd give a heads up about that seller.

He's one of the only ppl selling that model w/o labeling it "Terminal", and he made clear in our correspondence that he knew compatibility would be an issue but he didn't care, which is why he went so far as to specify in the listing "incompatibility is not a reason for return" - but doesn't make any attempt to explain  the reason for the (not-so-subtly predicted) possible incompatibility.

Sigh. Still need a Model M of my very own... :(
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Offline dorkvader

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Re: Model M terminal to USB?
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 13:58:11 »
KandiKat. First of all: welcome to Geekhack! I hope you are able to find what you need here.

Secondly. You have an upcoming wedding? Excellent. Weddings are always good.

About the model M's. It's probably not "worth it" to return them. You can convert them to USB with what's called a "soarer" converter, which is some custom code (by the excellent "soarer" on geekhack here) that runs on (usually) a Teensy2.0 You can get Teensys from PJRC, but it'd be sorta expensive for 10. Still, They become programmable, and work on USB, so you can probably turn a little profit that way.

I am always looking for IBM model M's for parts and modification, so if you wanted to sell me two, I think you can fit both in a large flat rate gameboard box, though I'll have to check. I'm sort-of sad I missed out on these.

I'd even happily modify one of them to USB for you and mail it back. Nobody should have to go without a model m: they are excellent keyboards.
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Offline Tarzan

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Re: Model M terminal to USB?
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 14:04:37 »
Quote from: KandiKat on Wed, 10 July 2013, 13:32:28
<snipped>
Anyhow, I'd be happy to sell you one or more of mine, I'll even clean them up for you. If you're interested, I'd just be happy to break even at $8 +shipping. You can email me or look me up on eBay "cammiebelle" and I can post a listing if you'd like to go thru them..If not, just thought I'd give a heads up about that seller.
<snipped>

I have a couple of Model M's, always on the lookout for others, for parts/keycaps if nothing else.  I'd be happy to buy two of your Model M Terminal boards, say $10.00 each plus shipping?  Especially if you can fit two of them in a Large Game Box.   ;D

PM incoming.
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Offline KandiKat

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Re: Model M terminal to USB?
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 14:16:40 »
Quote from: dorkvader on Wed, 10 July 2013, 13:58:11
KandiKat. First of all: welcome to Geekhack! I hope you are able to find what you need here.

Secondly. You have an upcoming wedding? Excellent. Weddings are always good.

About the model M's. It's probably not "worth it" to return them. You can convert them to USB with what's called a "soarer" converter, which is some custom code (by the excellent "soarer" on geekhack here) that runs on (usually) a Teensy2.0 You can get Teensys from PJRC, but it'd be sorta expensive for 10. Still, They become programmable, and work on USB, so you can probably turn a little profit that way.

I am always looking for IBM model M's for parts and modification, so if you wanted to sell me two, I think you can fit both in a large flat rate gameboard box, though I'll have to check. I'm sort-of sad I missed out on these.

I'd even happily modify one of them to USB for you and mail it back. Nobody should have to go without a model m: they are excellent keyboards.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a couple of Model M's, always on the lookout for others, for parts/keycaps if nothing else.  I'd be happy to buy two of your Model M Terminal boards, say $10.00 each plus shipping?  Especially if you can fit two of them in a Large Game Box.   

PM incoming.

Holy crow! You guys are awesome!! You seriously just made my day  :D

-->"I am always looking for IBM model M's for parts and modification, so if you wanted to sell me two, I think you can fit both in a large flat rate gameboard box, though I'll have to check. "
                    - Totally! I'll take a look tonight and let you know :)

-->"I'd even happily modify one of them to USB for you and mail it back. Nobody should have to go without a model m: they are excellent keyboards. "
                    - Omigosh yes please!

and ...

"I'd be happy to buy two of your Model M Terminal boards, say $10.00 each plus shipping?  Especially if you can fit two of them in a Large Game Box."
                      - Absolutely!!
 

I've been up all night and not slept yet, so I'm going to rack out for a while, but I'll address this more thoroughly when I'm up again :)

XoXo
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Model M terminal to USB?
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 14:40:14 »
The "game board" boxes they are referring to are free from the USPS but are not available at brick-and-mortar POs. You have to order them online.

The USPS will deliver as many as you want, to your doorstep, in boxes of 25. So, if you order "3" you will get 75! It takes perhaps a week to get them.

They are "large" flat rate boxes, so they go anywhere for $17 domestic or $78 international, if I remember correctly. 2 keyboards will fit in 1 box. (They are also good for storing keyboards. hehehe)
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“Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
- Jimmy Carter 2015

Offline KandiKat

  • Posts: 15
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Re: Model M terminal to USB?
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 14:56:34 »
Ordered!!  ;D

My mail guy rocks, and I actually have a business account (I make and sell chainmail/corsets/custom leather goods and whatnot) so my post office is really good to me...Should have boxes shortly!

- And thank you!! Everyone is so nice here :D

<3
XoXo
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Offline nubbinator

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Re: Model M terminal to USB?
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 17:17:13 »
Quote from: dorkvader on Wed, 10 July 2013, 13:58:11
KandiKat. First of all: welcome to Geekhack! I hope you are able to find what you need here.

Secondly. You have an upcoming wedding? Excellent. Weddings are always good.

About the model M's. It's probably not "worth it" to return them. You can convert them to USB with what's called a "soarer" converter, which is some custom code (by the excellent "soarer" on geekhack here) that runs on (usually) a Teensy2.0 You can get Teensys from PJRC, but it'd be sorta expensive for 10. Still, They become programmable, and work on USB, so you can probably turn a little profit that way.

I am always looking for IBM model M's for parts and modification, so if you wanted to sell me two, I think you can fit both in a large flat rate gameboard box, though I'll have to check. I'm sort-of sad I missed out on these.

I'd even happily modify one of them to USB for you and mail it back. Nobody should have to go without a model m: they are excellent keyboards.

Since you seem to know what you're doing with the Soarer, do you know the colors for the RJ45 wires and what they correspond with?  The Soarer wiki is a little confusing.  At some point when I get a little more free cash I want to pick up a Model M and do the soarer mod.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Model M terminal to USB?
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 17:59:24 »
Quote from: nubbinator on Wed, 10 July 2013, 17:17:13
Since you seem to know what you're doing with the Soarer, do you know the colors for the RJ45 wires and what they correspond with?

You can't trust colors. You should get a tester to make sure which wire goes to which.

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“Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
- Jimmy Carter 2015

Offline nubbinator

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Re: Model M terminal to USB?
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 18:09:43 »
Quote from: fohat.digs on Wed, 10 July 2013, 17:59:24
You can't trust colors. You should get a tester to make sure which wire goes to which.

True.  You can trust the order the wires are though.  It's not always easy to see where they correspond with on the face based on where they plug in the back though.
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Offline smknjoe

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Re: Model M terminal to USB?
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 18:34:08 »
Quote from: KandiKat on Wed, 10 July 2013, 13:32:28
He'll sell them for $8.00 and combine shipping, but he's a complete a**  >:D... I'd been looking for a Model M for myself and found his listing when it was new...Didn't realize these were "terminal" keyboards and thought it was just a really great deal. I bought 10 to clean up (they're filthy, btw) and sell to raise a little extra money for my wedding. I'm a 911 dispatcher and we use Model Ms, some of which are ps2 some are usb, so I expected that an adapter would be needed, but upon further research, found that while I'm moderately computer savvy, the hacks and conversions needed for these keyboards were waaaay beyond my pay grade.

I emailed him regarding a return, since the listing says nothing about being terminal only and the average buyer would assume that "fully functional" should mean they are compatible (with perhaps a bit of extra effort/minor adapter fix) with modern PCs. He was completely rude and while he agreed to accept the return, I clicked the wrong return code for eBay so he's insisting I pay the shipping. I got all 10 with shipping for $110 ($80 for the items and $30 for the shipping). I don't know how he did it, but I can't find shipping for less than about $90. The same week my (now) husband flew in from Ft Knox (he's stationed there) for our trip to Vegas, wedding and reception. I was busy and irritated with the guy and decided not to go to the trouble of returning them for the $20 I'd get back.

Anyhow, I'd be happy to sell you one or more of mine, I'll even clean them up for you. If you're interested, I'd just be happy to break even at $8 +shipping. You can email me or look me up on eBay "cammiebelle" and I can post a listing if you'd like to go thru them..If not, just thought I'd give a heads up about that seller.

He's one of the only ppl selling that model w/o labeling it "Terminal", and he made clear in our correspondence that he knew compatibility would be an issue but he didn't care, which is why he went so far as to specify in the listing "incompatibility is not a reason for return" - but doesn't make any attempt to explain  the reason for the (not-so-subtly predicted) possible incompatibility.

Sigh. Still need a Model M of my very own... :(

Welcome Kat, and bummer that you ordered the wrong board. The listing doesn't say terminal but it does say RJ45 (for terminal boards) and he has the model number listed as well. Luckily there are plenty of people here that are willing to help take them off of your hands! Congratulations on the wedding!
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Offline Glod

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Re: Model M terminal to USB?
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 10 July 2013, 21:50:46 »
picked up one of these RJ45 boards earlier this week IN ADDITION to the Ps/2 one i grabbed.

both are going to get separate Soarer converters, making them of course.

$20 + $ of teensy stuffs + time & pain of getting the soarer converter to work + time & pain to clean up keyboard = a pretty good deal overall
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Offline KandiKat

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Re: Model M terminal to USB?
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 11 July 2013, 14:21:21 »


Welcome Kat, and bummer that you ordered the wrong board. The listing doesn't say terminal but it does say RJ45 (for terminal boards) and he has the model number listed as well. Luckily there are plenty of people here that are willing to help take them off of your hands! Congratulations on the wedding!
[/quote]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks!

I looked for RJ45 to usb  converters before I bought them - but didn't know what I didn't know.

I knew there were many model numbers for Model Ms, some with differing connections and features, but I didn't know that some were programmed in such a way that they weren't compatible with modern PCs like the Model Ms from the 80's I still use at work are (911 dispatch in a major metro area).

I have yet to find a comprehensive/official list of *all* "terminal only" board models made, and, like I mentioned, I didn't know such a thing even existed, so I didn't know I needed to cross check the model number he listed against a list of "special" Model Ms that weren't going to be somewhat compatible.

I can get around modern compies fairly well, and my ex fancied himself to be something of a ɧĺxאoɍ, but it wasn't until I'd ordered them that the research I was doing into adapting them started to turn up references to "terminal keyboards" and I started to get concerned. Soon enough I realized the pickle I'd gotten into..and.. here I am  :-[

Thanks for the congrats, and everyone has been really great to me here, I can't tell you how much I appreciate that!

Xo
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Model M terminal to USB?
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 11 July 2013, 14:23:34 »
The wikipedia entry for the Model M is pretty good.
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“Citizens United violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president.
So now we’ve just seen a complete subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect and sometimes get favors for themselves after the election’s over.”
- Jimmy Carter 2015

Offline KandiKat

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Re: Model M terminal to USB?
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 11 July 2013, 15:24:21 »
Yeah...Even the wiki page doesn't list 1392595 specifically, tho...I started to suspect trouble when I saw a post about terminal keyboards having RJ45 connectors somewhere and eventually found a forum post elsewhere about this model specifically - but by then it was too late ... *shrug* ... now I know..And knowing is..?? ;)

(Plus a few of you have been really kind to me, esp dorkvader, and my flub might turn out not to be quite so disastrous as I'd first thought  :)  ) 
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