Author Topic: Rare&Old Bull keyboard  (Read 7663 times)

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Offline Retrete

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Rare&Old Bull keyboard
« on: Sun, 19 May 2013, 13:07:37 »
Hi! Anyone knows something about this keyboard? Type of switches?

Offline Rule16

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Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 19 May 2013, 13:16:08 »
Looks nearly identical to my chicony packard bell, which has green alps. Not sure what this has but it wont work on a modern computer without some modding or a special converter.
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Offline rootwyrm

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Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 19 May 2013, 13:55:15 »
Looks nearly identical to my chicony packard bell, which has green alps. Not sure what this has but it wont work on a modern computer without some modding or a special converter.

Yeah. You're not sure. So maybe don't speak up so quickly.

That's a Groupe Bull (Bull SAS) PC-side interface keyboard. That particular example typically goes to an SPS-9 client system or may go to a Bull/GE GCOS client and should speak standard XT protocol. The reason for the odd layout is because it's Spanish non-ISO.
It doesn't go to a Netstation or DPX2 console - both of those are full 101 key layouts. Same for their POWER stuff - and the early POWER is 122 F12+PF12 IIRC.
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Daily Drivers: Adesso 625 (NPKC PBT / Kailh Blue), Rosewill RK9000V2 (KC PBT / MX Brown), 1994 Model M13, Sun Type4, and the rare IBM 1394540.

Offline Rule16

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Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 19 May 2013, 14:45:53 »
Looks nearly identical to my chicony packard bell, which has green alps. Not sure what this has but it wont work on a modern computer without some modding or a special converter.

Yeah. You're not sure. So maybe don't speak up so quickly.

That's a Groupe Bull (Bull SAS) PC-side interface keyboard. That particular example typically goes to an SPS-9 client system or may go to a Bull/GE GCOS client and should speak standard XT protocol. The reason for the odd layout is because it's Spanish non-ISO.
It doesn't go to a Netstation or DPX2 console - both of those are full 101 key layouts. Same for their POWER stuff - and the early POWER is 122 F12+PF12 IIRC.
No need to be a jackass about it, I only told him what I was sure about.
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Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 19 May 2013, 15:45:48 »
It's a Cherry G80-0something, I can't find the exact model right at the moment. I am pretty sure it is an AT keyboard, probably has black switch and nice ES doubleshots. I would love to get one of these, if it is a good price you should buy it. Will look good after a retrobrighting.
« Last Edit: Sun, 19 May 2013, 15:47:46 by IvanIvanovich »

Offline rootwyrm

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Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 19 May 2013, 17:17:01 »
It's a Cherry G80-0something, I can't find the exact model right at the moment. I am pretty sure it is an AT keyboard, probably has black switch and nice ES doubleshots. I would love to get one of these, if it is a good price you should buy it. Will look good after a retrobrighting.

The Bull's with only up to F10 should be exclusively XT or proprietary by design, since I believe it would have been attached to a rebranded Zenith XT-era PC or a DPS console. The one you're thinking of is the Cherry G80-0915 but they're not identical obviously. IIRC later GCOS terminals used the G80-1306, but it really has been a very long time. (I used to work on Bull-Escala gear fairly regularly.) It's definitely not a POWER era one, since those are all IBM Model M rebrands or Honeywell-Bull.

It's definitely DPS7-DPX era though. Here's a picture showing a console from a DPX/2 showing the standard keyboard.

As you can see, totally different keyboard and not a Cherry. It's also not a BDS-5 keyboard because the BDS-5 used Serial-Over-DIN5 and the keyboard was built by Honeywell Keyboard Division. This is one of the Honeywell-Bull terminal keyboards. Yes, same one as on the DPX/2.

Amusingly enough, Zenith Data Systems used an in-house built keyboard with a similar layout but using Alps Greens. Also ZDS was a majority owned subsidiary of Groupe Bull until 1996. Hence why I'm thinking it's an XT-era GCOS. As to what switches are on it, anyone's guess there - they have always been notoriously inconsistent about parts being swapped around mid-flight.
"I remain convinced I am the only person alive who has successfully worn out an IBM Model M mechanically."
Daily Drivers: Adesso 625 (NPKC PBT / Kailh Blue), Rosewill RK9000V2 (KC PBT / MX Brown), 1994 Model M13, Sun Type4, and the rare IBM 1394540.

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 19 May 2013, 17:29:57 »
No. The 0915 is a commodore keyboard based on the earlier 0499. The G80 I am thinking of was an IBM F AT copy, just like what is in the OP. I think it's model was under 0700 but since I can't find it I am not entirely certain.

Offline mbc

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Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 19 May 2013, 17:41:52 »
lysol is (partially) right

http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8/cherry-g80-0929h-t5616.html
there are AT and XT versions with this case
PS: model numbers are pretty random with these, I guess it changed for each custom order
« Last Edit: Sun, 19 May 2013, 17:47:53 by mbc »

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 19 May 2013, 18:08:24 »
Put that in the wiki so I can find it later! :p

Offline rootwyrm

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Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 19 May 2013, 18:45:26 »
lysol is (partially) right
Show Image

http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8/cherry-g80-0929h-t5616.html
there are AT and XT versions with this case
PS: model numbers are pretty random with these, I guess it changed for each custom order

Put that in the wiki so I can find it later! :p

Ahha. Yes, that's the base. As you can see though, the 0929 is not identical - the Bull has modifications to the layout. So the Bull probably has a different PN and there probably weren't many made before they decided to randomly jump manufacturers again. Especially since, as I mentioned, Bull didn't really do any x86 hardware back then. They'd just slap a badge on a Zenith.
"I remain convinced I am the only person alive who has successfully worn out an IBM Model M mechanically."
Daily Drivers: Adesso 625 (NPKC PBT / Kailh Blue), Rosewill RK9000V2 (KC PBT / MX Brown), 1994 Model M13, Sun Type4, and the rare IBM 1394540.

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 19 May 2013, 23:41:48 »
One in OP is Spanish, mbc is German... it would have a different model code for sure since it has a different language layout. May or may not have a different 092* or some other part number if it used a different protocol, depend on if custom order and how consistent Cherry was feeling then. In any case I am still 99% confident it is a G80.
« Last Edit: Sun, 19 May 2013, 23:43:26 by IvanIvanovich »

Offline rootwyrm

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Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 20 May 2013, 03:38:31 »
One in OP is Spanish, mbc is German... it would have a different model code for sure since it has a different language layout. May or may not have a different 092* or some other part number if it used a different protocol, depend on if custom order and how consistent Cherry was feeling then. In any case I am still 99% confident it is a G80.

Actually, the one in OP looks like it's Spanish-French, not Spanish. Groupe Bull is, no surprise here, a French company. Except during this era, it was actually owned by France. As in nationalized. Their primary markets were, no surprise here, France and French-speaking Belgium and Spain. (Nationalization occurred in 1982 and was subsequently re-privitised in 1994.)

The thing is, you're looking at a keyboard which is definitely Micral 30 era - 1985ish. But here's the thing: that's not a Micral 30 keyboard.

Notice, oh, I don't know, about thirty differences between the G80-0929 frame and the Micral 30? Give or take. And it's definitely not a Micral 60 keyboard, because the Micral 60 required a 101 key. It's not a Zenith because, well, come on. We know the Zenith keyboards from the era were Alps with an entirely different layout. And definitely not made by Cherry.  It's not a Honeywell either. Might be a filler-part due to low stock on Micral 30's, but I cannot imagine why they would use what is probably a more expensive part. *headscratch*
"I remain convinced I am the only person alive who has successfully worn out an IBM Model M mechanically."
Daily Drivers: Adesso 625 (NPKC PBT / Kailh Blue), Rosewill RK9000V2 (KC PBT / MX Brown), 1994 Model M13, Sun Type4, and the rare IBM 1394540.

Offline mbc

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Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 20 May 2013, 05:08:12 »
lysol is (partially) right
Show Image

http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8/cherry-g80-0929h-t5616.html
there are AT and XT versions with this case
PS: model numbers are pretty random with these, I guess it changed for each custom order

Put that in the wiki so I can find it later! :p

Ahha. Yes, that's the base. As you can see though, the 0929 is not identical - the Bull has modifications to the layout. So the Bull probably has a different PN and there probably weren't many made before they decided to randomly jump manufacturers again. Especially since, as I mentioned, Bull didn't really do any x86 hardware back then. They'd just slap a badge on a Zenith.
it's made by Cherry !
« Last Edit: Mon, 20 May 2013, 05:11:21 by mbc »