Author Topic: newb looking for qwerty keyboard advice (Read 5609 times)

rokuez · « **on:** Thu, 26 June 2008, 16:52:13 »

I'm a new user here and I'm looking to get a good keyboard for typing at work.

Thinking about the Unicomp but a little worried about the noise. I will probably end up going with this because it looks like a solid design, and I've read a lot of good things about it from the web and from lurking here.

I didn't grow up with a IBM model M and I don't have any nostaligia for it so I don't see any benefit to getting something that is retro even tho it has a quality build. Plus I would need a USB adapter for it and I'm not looking for PS2 because my notebook is on a stand at work and i don't want a ps2/usb adapter hanging from it and messing up the usb port from wear and tear.

the tactile pro mac keyboard looks cool but is sold out in white

o well. I also don't really know the feel of those alp mechanical devices. Can anyone link me a good description?

I'm currently using the $50 slim apple keyboard that they are selling now. I believe this uses the often hated rubber bump type device instead of ALP or buckling spring.

I run winxp at work and the number pad on this thing doesn't work

plus I want to keep this keyboard at home were I am always running osx. There is probably a fix for the number pad but like i said this keyboard will be kept at home once i've ordered a replacement.

Looking to keep it under $300. Recomendations please!

Fox · « **Reply #1 on:** Thu, 26 June 2008, 19:01:45 »

If you're in close quarters at work, you'll probably be too loud with a unicomp or an IBM. I just bought the customizer 104, and I type with it on my lap under my desk to try to minimize the noise.

It's totally worth it - I spend a lot of my day writing code, and stuff that having a rubber dome keyboard would make me furious over. It's an all-around better situation than the one I was given.

And if people complain, buy them an old model M. They won't complain anymore, although the office will get that much louder

bhtooefr · « **Reply #2 on:** Thu, 26 June 2008, 19:34:30 »

Tell you what, get a Model M from goodwill or something, type on it for a while, see how the noise level is. And, the USB adapters I use tend to have a short cable on them, so they don't put any weight on the USB port. Not like a few grams of weight is really gonna stress the port.

But, my EnduraPro is actually a bit quieter than that.

rokuez · « **Reply #3 on:** Thu, 26 June 2008, 22:28:36 »

Quote from: bhtooefr;5970

Tell you what, get a Model M from goodwill or something, type on it for a while, see how the noise level is. And, the USB adapters I use tend to have a short cable on them, so they don't put any weight on the USB port. Not like a few grams of weight is really gonna stress the port.

But, my EnduraPro is actually a bit quieter than that.

Are these things really that prevalent at goodwill and other charity stores?

I don't really have a lot of time + gas is very pricey now a days I've seen it at $5 a gallon in some place so to check multiple stores hoping that they have a keyboard is kind of out of the question

iMav · « **Reply #4 on:** Thu, 26 June 2008, 23:33:41 »

Sounds to me like you are already pretty sold on a Unicomp board. I say go for it and pull the trigger on one.

They are great...if you are concerned about noise, check out some of the audio clips posted here.

rokuez · « **Reply #5 on:** Fri, 27 June 2008, 01:47:19 »

I guess one thing I would like to know b4 I pull the trigger is that if there is a buckling spring keyboard that is completely silent or at least very silent?

xsphat · « **Reply #6 on:** Fri, 27 June 2008, 03:41:34 »

Quote from: rokuez;5979

I guess one thing I would like to know b4 I pull the trigger is that if there is a buckling spring keyboard that is completely silent or at least very silent?

No, they are inherently loud as hell.

xyzzy · « **Reply #7 on:** Fri, 27 June 2008, 05:38:21 »

Quote from: rokuez;5979

I guess one thing I would like to know b4 I pull the trigger is that if there is a buckling spring keyboard that is completely silent or at least very silent?

IBM used to produce a few Model M keyboards in the Soft Touch variant, as shown here and here. Grease was applied to each spring so that they would loose (part or all of) their "clickiness" and could be used in quiet environments.

As that specific model is quite rare, you can try modding a standard Model M like this guy successfully did.

Fox · « **Reply #8 on:** Fri, 27 June 2008, 08:06:06 »

That would definitely be a mod for a goodwill special

Rokuez, if you're hesitant to buy one of these keyboards, see if you can find one with a non-DOA guarantee on ebay and play around with it for a while. if you like it like I did, you'll probably want to either just keep that one and buy the adapter as mentioned, or bite the bullet and get one of the unicomp boards (which is really a matter of preference anyway- if you don't care about the modern keys, the difference is only minor, and is in the feel of the board).

lowpoly · « **Reply #9 on:** Fri, 27 June 2008, 08:26:02 »

I used my Model M in an open office room with several co-workers for about a year. Nobody ever complained. It depends on so many factors, you have to try it yourself.

bhtooefr · « **Reply #10 on:** Fri, 27 June 2008, 08:41:34 »

Keep in mind, Model Ms are what came standard on IBM PCs for, oh, 10 years. And before that, the IBM Model F, which was louder than any Model M, was standard.

Anyway, on one forum that I'm on, someone did claim that they could get a greased keyboard from Unicomp, for an additional charge of $40, and with no warranty. It's something to look into, but realize that you'll be paying $100 for a 101 key keyboard with no warranty if you go that route.

Mikecase00 · « **Reply #11 on:** Fri, 27 June 2008, 13:45:40 »

I think you should give a Model M a shot. You should be able to pick up a plain old 1391401 model in good condition from eBay for ~$20 shipped if you shop carefully. If you don't like it you can always resell it. You're unlikely to ever type on a more robust keyboard.

Don't let the USB compatibility stop you either. It looks pretty easy to solder a USB adapter inside the keyboard casing. This guy did it... http://zevv.nl/play/misc/ibm-usb/ and so did this guy... http://www.flickr.com/photos/12031124@N00/sets/72157594346862373/

After I finish getting my yard in I plan to do the same to my black M

rokuez · « **Reply #12 on:** Fri, 27 June 2008, 14:27:20 »

Quote from: Mikecase00;6004

I think you should give a Model M a shot. You should be able to pick up a plain old 1391401 model in good condition from eBay for ~$20 shipped if you shop carefully. If you don't like it you can always resell it. You're unlikely to ever type on a more robust keyboard.

Don't let the USB compatibility stop you either. It looks pretty easy to solder a USB adapter inside the keyboard casing. This guy did it... http://zevv.nl/play/misc/ibm-usb/ and so did this guy... http://www.flickr.com/photos/12031124@N00/sets/72157594346862373/

After I finish getting my yard in I plan to do the same to my black M

appreciate the links mike

just called these guys after looking up model m's on ebay (hate ebay so i contact their store directly)

http://www.mcbia.com/contact.htm

I talked to nick and he's sending me a model m 1391401 right away for like $30 something

rokuez · « **Reply #13 on:** Fri, 27 June 2008, 15:27:44 »

hmmm a little worried about the model M using a lot of power, does it? Does the model M use a signifigant amount more power then a unicomp usb?

just worried about power consumption sense it's a ps2 keyboard.

Do I have anything to worry about?

Mikecase00 · « **Reply #14 on:** Fri, 27 June 2008, 16:03:11 »

The rumor is that Ms consume more power than a modern USB keyboard would. Apparently, certain PS/2 -> USB adapters don't work with Ms because of it, so it's recommended you get one of these: http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/11298/subcatid/0/id/131781

I have one and it works great.

rokuez · « **Reply #15 on:** Fri, 27 June 2008, 16:08:46 »

Quote from: Mikecase00;6015

The rumor is that Ms consume more power than a modern USB keyboard would. Apparently, certain PS/2 -> USB adapters don't work with Ms because of it, so it's recommended you get one of these: http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/11298/subcatid/0/id/131781

I have one and it works great.

ahh yes had already ordered one of the ps2 to usb converters ( NOT Adapter) from clicky . i'll probably pick up one of those usb cables from fry's or some such place

cheers 2 everyone who responded to this thread. i'm glad there is finally a forum for qwerty keyboards , i had looked for one year ago and never found this.

now i just gotta wait until the model M and ps2usb converter arrives

bhtooefr · « **Reply #16 on:** Fri, 27 June 2008, 16:10:33 »

According to Device Manager on my ThinkPad, my EnduraPro requests 98 mA (@ 5 V, of course.)

My Belkin F5U119vE1 requests 100 mA, and works fine with my Model M. And, a USB adapter plus a keyboard is going to consume more than just the keyboard.

rokuez · « **Reply #17 on:** Fri, 27 June 2008, 16:40:12 »

Quote from: bhtooefr;6017

According to Device Manager on my ThinkPad, my EnduraPro requests 98 mA (@ 5 V, of course.)

My Belkin F5U119vE1 requests 100 mA, and works fine with my Model M. And, a USB adapter plus a keyboard is going to consume more than just the keyboard.

i'm on a macbook pro 2.6 ghz the latest one and i boot into win xp whe at work. I'm thinking it will be fine, thanks for the info bhtooefr

hah just can't wait till this is here and i have a quality keyboard

rokuez · « **Reply #18 on:** Mon, 30 June 2008, 22:07:09 »

Can anyone who has done the USB mod on the M say something about the socket strength . I looked at those urls and I didn't quite understand how he secures the clicky usb converter to the pcb board.

I think it takes a decent amount of force to remove a usb plug and overtime I think that mod would break due to repetitive force/stress

IBI · « **Reply #19 on:** Tue, 01 July 2008, 10:44:11 »

Quote from: rokuez;5972

gas is very pricey now a days I've seen it at $5 a gallon in some place

Quote from: rokuez;5964

the tactile pro mac keyboard looks cool but is sold out in white o well. I also don't really know the feel of those alp mechanical devices. Can anyone link me a good description?

I'm currently using the $50 slim apple keyboard that they are selling now. I believe this uses the often hated rubber bump type device instead of ALP or buckling spring.

I don't think the Tactile Pro uses real alps, but some more wobbly clone. The real alps were the nicest switches availible but they're discontinued now.

The flat aluminium apple keyboard uses scissor switches, as do all laptop keyboards. The full travel normal keyboards use rubber domes (which can be quite nice if you get a good one).

Capacitive is only the method of registering the keystrokes (Model Ms, Rubber Domes and Scissor switches all use a membrane instead) and doesn't have any effect on the feel (The Topre Capacitve and HHKB use a cone spring for that).

Laser is those projected keyboards where you bash your fingers against whatever hard surface you've projected it on.

Mikecase00 · « **Reply #20 on:** Tue, 01 July 2008, 16:32:43 »

Quote from: rokuez;6101

Can anyone who has done the USB mod on the M say something about the socket strength . I looked at those urls and I didn't quite understand how he secures the clicky usb converter to the pcb board.

I think it takes a decent amount of force to remove a usb plug and overtime I think that mod would break due to repetitive force/stress

I thought the same thing when I saw the mod. I figure, if/when I get around to doing it, I'll not be soldering the converter onto the PCB that way, but instead attaching it to the lower portion of the keyboard frame. From their I'd solder wires onto both the converter and the PCB and join them with wire connectors of some sort such that the keyboard internals could be still be removed.

Another thought I had would be to add not just an internal USB plug (because really, it isn't a big deal to use the external adapter), but also an internal unpowered usb hub such that flash drives could be plugged in without reaching under my desk. Of course that would require more invasive surgery as additional port holes would need to be cut into the frame, but it would be pretty awesome to have...

bhtooefr · « **Reply #21 on:** Tue, 01 July 2008, 19:05:13 »

Mikecase00: You've got a dead M13 that you raided for the keys for your modded M, right?

Use the bottom case off of it, it's even got the second port area right there...

Mikecase00 · « **Reply #22 on:** Wed, 02 July 2008, 11:04:11 »

Quote from: bhtooefr;6160

Mikecase00: You've got a dead M13 that you raided for the keys for your modded M, right?

Use the bottom case off of it, it's even got the second port area right there...

I do indeed have a dead M-13. That's a great idea, I completely forgot about the mouse pass through slot.

rokuez · « **Reply #23 on:** Mon, 07 July 2008, 17:48:35 »

argh just noticed there is no windows key. is there any work around for this? or is it mapped to some other key now?

bhtooefr · « **Reply #24 on:** Mon, 07 July 2008, 21:36:02 »

On a PC, Ctrl-Esc opens the start menu, although it won't give you the other shortcuts. (Lenovo used to have an app that remapped right Alt to the Windows key, for the ThinkPads, but...)

On a Mac, you've gotta remap it, it's in System Preferences, Keyboard & Mouse, Modifier Keys. Usually, how I remap a Model M is to move Ctrl to Caps Lock, Option to Ctrl, and Command to Option. So, for Option, you'll press Ctrl, and for Command, you'll press Alt.

lowpoly · « **Reply #25 on:** Tue, 08 July 2008, 01:53:52 »

Autohotkey

rokuez · « **Reply #26 on:** Tue, 08 July 2008, 13:19:59 »

Quote from: sofa king;6436

Autohotkey

thanks for this!

i really need windows for Run, See Desktop, and My Computer shortcuts

xsphat · « **Reply #27 on:** Tue, 08 July 2008, 14:33:07 »

Quote from: rokuez;6438

i really need windows for Run, See Desktop, and My Computer shortcuts

I need Apple because I don't need those things.

itlnstln · « **Reply #28 on:** Tue, 08 July 2008, 15:33:47 »

Going back to the noise thing... I use a Model M (1991) at work and I don't really think it is that much louder than some of the Dell POS rubber dome keyboards others use. The plastic banging against each other on the Dells generate a ton of noise. No one has had an issue with my keyboard, and I type a lot of SQL at work (amongst other e-mail, data analysis stuff; I also don't really give a damn, either). Personally, I really don't care for the Windows keys, I haven't used them in the 13 or so years since they were conceived. The only thing I do miss from time to time (but obviously far from a deal breaker) is the volume control keys since they make it very easy to mute and change system volume (you know, for those NSFW times

). Also, my MS Natural 4000 has a shortcut key to the calculator which I, suprising to me, found very useful. All of these things I can create shortcut keys for, so they are not much of a problem. I, obviously, care about typing on a quality keyboard much more than shortcut buttons. Tomorrow, I will be typing on my first Alps keyboard (that I can remember; I'm sure I have typed on some of the old Dell Alps-based 'boards in the past). A Northgate Evolution is waiting for me when I get home tonight! While I love my Model M, typing on a normal layout for years is starting to make wrists hurt after a while, and the "natural" layout helps a lot, even though, the MS keys feel like crap. Sorry for the long post, I just love typing on my Model M. I hope you enjoy yours!

xsphat · « **Reply #29 on:** Tue, 08 July 2008, 17:23:18 »

Post pics and let us know what you think of it. I for one am interested in that 'board, though only passingly.

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Author Topic: newb looking for qwerty keyboard advice (Read 5609 times)