Author Topic: Xbox One Discussion Thread  (Read 24648 times)

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Offline baldgye

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #100 on: Sun, 26 May 2013, 13:44:48 »
^^^^ Spot on. Even worse when you have 3 monitors, and only game on the center. I think I might get the One just for that reason alone. I have so many games on my PC that I haven't finished it's actually intimidating.

but if you suffer from that problem, how would the XONE help? I agree and it's one of the things I like about my PS3, but I'm not sure how the XONE could really help, given how its been designed around multi-tasking

Offline Lastpilot

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #101 on: Sun, 26 May 2013, 13:47:47 »
Even though it is designed that way, I don't think internet browsing will be very popular on it. I think that's the main distraction about gaming on PC. There's almost always something to check on the internets.

Offline daerid

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #102 on: Sun, 26 May 2013, 13:52:27 »
^^^ Yup. Mainly it's the ease with which I can pop open a browser, or open up twitter, or facebook or whatever. The barrier to distractions is too low.

There's also a psychological component. I grew up with consoles, so when I sit down to play a console, my mind goes "nothing else to do with play games". Not so with my PC.

Offline baldgye

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #103 on: Sun, 26 May 2013, 14:35:24 »
^^^ Yup. Mainly it's the ease with which I can pop open a browser, or open up twitter, or facebook or whatever. The barrier to distractions is too low.

I really can't see that being easier and more useful than just having your phone next to you while your on the sofa...

Offline Lanx

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #104 on: Mon, 27 May 2013, 02:14:55 »
if microsoft could make this, it'll sell

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Offline daerid

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #105 on: Mon, 27 May 2013, 10:55:46 »
^^^ Yup. Mainly it's the ease with which I can pop open a browser, or open up twitter, or facebook or whatever. The barrier to distractions is too low.

I really can't see that being easier and more useful than just having your phone next to you while your on the sofa...

I think you might be misunderstanding me. I don't want to make it easier. I like consoles because they make it harder to indulge in all those distractions.

Offline StrykerX

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #106 on: Tue, 11 June 2013, 14:59:00 »
So any thoughts on the Xbox One now that the price was announced?

$499

Offline Tym

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #107 on: Tue, 11 June 2013, 15:08:18 »
Well Microsoft are screwed completely, what they have made is worse, more expensive and the major exclusives are pointless now (Halo 5...and what else?) Compared with the PS4, and Sony have done well, increasing the size of the controller to welcome Xbox players, although I will still get a converter because i like the Xbox layout more.

Still not sure if I will get a PS4, maybe...
unless they have some unforeseeable downside (like they're actually made of cream cheese cunningly disguised as ABS)


Offline baldgye

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #108 on: Tue, 11 June 2013, 15:11:34 »
Full length MGSV trailer made me pretty hard, can't wait to play it on PS4...

Offline Tym

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #109 on: Tue, 11 June 2013, 15:12:08 »
Battlefront.
unless they have some unforeseeable downside (like they're actually made of cream cheese cunningly disguised as ABS)


Offline StrykerX

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #110 on: Tue, 11 June 2013, 15:37:36 »
Well Microsoft are screwed completely, what they have made is worse, more expensive and the major exclusives are pointless now (Halo 5...and what else?) Compared with the PS4, and Sony have done well, increasing the size of the controller to welcome Xbox players, although I will still get a converter because i like the Xbox layout more.

Still not sure if I will get a PS4, maybe...
I don't think the changes to the controller on the PS4 are significant enough to make me like it much more. I've never liked the PlayStation controller, there's been little to no innovation on it since the original DualShock controller. The Xbox 360 controller is far superior in my opinion.

That said...the PS4 looks like the better console on a price and performance level. Features, not so sure yet, the media capabilities of the Xbox One do interest me (I would love for it to control my home theatre one day), but the Kinect could be more gimmicky than it is practical. And since it's always on...not that I'm paranoid, but I'm paranoid.

Sadly, the thing holding me back the most from switching to Sony is that I love the Xbox controller too much (and heard good things about the Xbox One controller).

Offline YoungMichael88

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #111 on: Tue, 11 June 2013, 15:40:59 »
They really messed up with their policies on this "One". You will need a connection to the Internet at least once every 24hrs to re-authenticate your games and make sure you own them. You cannot sell/trade games except with authorized retailers (and only once so no selling it back to them) and you can't borrow or trade with your friends. They are trying to control what you do with something YOU OWN! I have been a happy Xbox 360 customer for years now but if they don't change these policies I'm jumping the fence into the PS4 camp.
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Offline Tym

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #112 on: Tue, 11 June 2013, 15:44:13 »
Like I said Stryker just buy a converter for 5$ off eBay :P
unless they have some unforeseeable downside (like they're actually made of cream cheese cunningly disguised as ABS)


Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #113 on: Tue, 11 June 2013, 16:07:20 »
I am honestly starting to feel bad for the big guy. If it fails Microsoft will go the way of Sega and we will be left with only two console makers to choose from, that is unless Apple finally decides to release what they've hinted at for the last decade or so. I loved my original Xbox and 360, but there's no argument that Microsoft has made some missteps. Really, people are afraid of change and the traditional home system is going to go the way of the dinosaur after this coming gen. The PS4 and WiiU are undoubtedly the last of their kind, and in 10 years or so purely digital always connected systems will be the norm. On that front I believe Microsoft is further ahead of the competition, but this angers and scares traditionalists.

In the end I will get a PS4, but really just for the exclusives that are on the way. Not because I am afraid of Big Brother. Even then, I'll mainly stick to PC gaming... wait, the PS4 and One ARE watered down PC's, hmmmm.
« Last Edit: Tue, 11 June 2013, 16:09:37 by noisyturtle »

Offline Tym

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #114 on: Tue, 11 June 2013, 16:09:57 »
Turtle I completely agree with you; but I believe Microsoft were too early to the market; because globally internet is not ready, it cannot support games being stream, It cannot support a household with netflix, a PC, and a "console". Obviously some areas are fine and dandy but so much of the world cannot.

Also Microsoft were daft to stop people trading in games, just makes them look like Jerks.
unless they have some unforeseeable downside (like they're actually made of cream cheese cunningly disguised as ABS)


Offline absyrd

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #115 on: Tue, 11 June 2013, 16:42:13 »
I always say I will not buy even one as they come out... then I end up going through them all (not necessarily at release prices). So... yeah... I'll take one of each, please.
My wife I a also push her button . But now she have her button push by a different men. So I buy a keyboard a mechanicale, she a reliable like a Fiat.

Offline calavera

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #116 on: Tue, 11 June 2013, 16:44:37 »
Xbox one has a 7770 equivalent grapchics retailing at $499. PS4 has a 7850 equivalent with retail price tag of $399. I'd say xbox one is ****ed unless they do something drastic.

Offline bear95

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #117 on: Tue, 11 June 2013, 17:43:05 »
Xbox one has a 7770 equivalent grapchics retailing at $499. PS4 has a 7850 equivalent with retail price tag of $399. I'd say xbox one is ****ed unless they do something drastic.

IIRC performance of the xbox one and the PS4 is roughly the same since although the PS4 has higher bandwidth(GDDR5 vs GDDR3) the xbox one has better cache. Therefore even if the xbox one has less bandwidth it doesn't matter since it doesn't need as much as the ps4 due to the cache. The numbers look nicer for the ps4 but in the end performance is the same. Regardless, yes the xbox is ****ed because of the higher price point.

Offline StrykerX

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #118 on: Tue, 11 June 2013, 18:09:11 »
Xbox one has a 7770 equivalent grapchics retailing at $499. PS4 has a 7850 equivalent with retail price tag of $399. I'd say xbox one is ****ed unless they do something drastic.

IIRC performance of the xbox one and the PS4 is roughly the same since although the PS4 has higher bandwidth(GDDR5 vs GDDR3) the xbox one has better cache. Therefore even if the xbox one has less bandwidth it doesn't matter since it doesn't need as much as the ps4 due to the cache. The numbers look nicer for the ps4 but in the end performance is the same. Regardless, yes the xbox is ****ed because of the higher price point.
The price was a smart move by Sony, but a $100 difference isn't going to **** Microsoft alone. The PS3 was $200 more than the Xbox 360, but it had the saving grace of being one of the cheapest Blu-Ray players. I think Xbox One will still do pretty well, but I'm leaning towards a PS4. I guess that is, if I can get an Xbox One controller working on it. Also want to see their media capabilities.

Offline YoungMichael88

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #119 on: Tue, 11 June 2013, 18:32:57 »
Yea I don't care about the $100 difference, I just want to be able to play my games where Internet is not available. Like on a rainy day at a cottage and also be free to swap, trade, sell/buy games that I supposedly own. Microsoft saying the "always online" is to ensure your games are always updated automatically is a nice use of misdirection instead of saying "we don't trust you" enough so that they need to check up on you once a day like children. I understand the need for online for obvious things like cloud based games but if I own the disk there is no need for it other than to make sure they can squeeze every last penny they can out of us. I don't really like having kinect forced on me either. I realize I'm complaining a lot about it but I love Xbox and I do feel a bit betrayed. :(
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Offline Lanx

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #120 on: Wed, 12 June 2013, 14:59:38 »
fck the xbox one, there's nothing "exclusive" about it for me to get one, there's no more time between my nephews and halo anymore for me to care about owning a xbox (which was the intended use of the 360 really). Kinect is stupid and is just a fad. i have a closet full of a complete guitar hero band set, wii board and crap. the kinect is never plugged in, the only decent game for it is just dance and even then, got bored... it has too much "novelty" and not enough "hardcore" for it to be good. Now i know the next gen kinect is much better but crap is still crap. i don't really care about the 24 hour online, most ppl are online anyone... actually mine isn't... why? well i hate using wireless for my entertainment center so i have to use wired, and that's already 3 ethernets going to my bedroom tv if i count htpc/xbox/ps3 (the crappy wii is wifi only). But of course is disingenuous for microsoft to say bullsh*t that it's to update the games... lol anyone can see it's just a pathetic drm attempt.

i've bought consoles... just because... this year... the wii-u is sh*t and the xboxone is sh*t, they're really making it easy for me just to get a ps4 and be done with it really.

Offline Tarzan

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #121 on: Wed, 12 June 2013, 15:05:20 »
I've had an Xbox since... whenever they first came out.  Then I got the Xbox360.  But I'm not going to get an Xbox One.  Between my son and I we probably have 200 Xbox games, and being told that Xbox One is not going to be backwards compatible?  And that the unit requires constant internet access, even to play single-player games?  Deal breaker.

Not a huge fan of Sony, but any new console purchase will be the PS4.

Offline kmiller8

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #122 on: Wed, 12 June 2013, 15:09:06 »
Reasons I'm buying an Xbox One over PS4

1. I have a decent internet connection so the always on doesn't matter to me
2. I want to use the Kinect Sensor to do 3D scans of objects, and the Kinect 2 has much higher resolution than the first Kinect (480p -> 720p)
3. I don't buy used games
4. Yes I am lazy enough to not want to change inputs every time I want to watch TV.
5. Day 1 downloads of games, I don't have to even leave my house to buy games now, or wait for them to ship.
6. All my games are tied to my account, so no need to get up and change the disc every time I want to play something different.
7. I consume 50+ hours of twitch.tv a week, so having that built in is a huge plus.
8. I already have a Windows based ecosystem sharing all my media throughout my house, so the Xbox One will just fit right in.
9. Xbox fanboy.
10. I love the NSA, and hate freedoms.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #123 on: Wed, 12 June 2013, 16:34:34 »
Microsoft does have some cool technology in the works as well, like the Illumiroom which will hopefully make it to the One someday.

Plus I heard a rumor from my buddies over at Microsoft..... well I shouldn't say  :-X

Offline Tarzan

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #124 on: Wed, 12 June 2013, 19:04:36 »
Reasons I'm buying an Xbox One over PS4

1. I have a decent internet connection so the always on doesn't matter to me
2. I want to use the Kinect Sensor to do 3D scans of objects, and the Kinect 2 has much higher resolution than the first Kinect (480p -> 720p)
3. I don't buy used games
4. Yes I am lazy enough to not want to change inputs every time I want to watch TV.
5. Day 1 downloads of games, I don't have to even leave my house to buy games now, or wait for them to ship.
6. All my games are tied to my account, so no need to get up and change the disc every time I want to play something different.
7. I consume 50+ hours of twitch.tv a week, so having that built in is a huge plus.
8. I already have a Windows based ecosystem sharing all my media throughout my house, so the Xbox One will just fit right in.
9. Xbox fanboy.
10. I love the NSA, and hate freedoms.



Best of luck with your approach.

Offline kmiller8

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #125 on: Wed, 12 June 2013, 19:10:04 »
Also, I was just talking with someone else about how DRM will be on the PS4, and trust me. gg with that.

Offline demik

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #126 on: Wed, 12 June 2013, 20:07:01 »
I was also just talking to somebody about how the DRM will be on the PS4, and he says what you think is wrong.

See, I can make **** up too!
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Offline kmiller8

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #127 on: Wed, 12 June 2013, 20:27:44 »
See, I can make **** up too!

The proper term is "speculate" OuO

My speculation, is that third party will enforce their own methods of DRM, leading to some massive segregation of gaming services, I'm thinking something like how Steam/uPlay/Origin/GFWL work on the current PC market. However that's obviously worst-case scenario, and still Xbox One's stupid 24h check-in is pretty unnecessary.

One thing that is quite exciting, is that since Xbox One will be x86/DirectX it should be stupidly easy to port Xbox One games to the PC market, here's hoping for a modern PC release of Halo!

Kudos for Sony for putting the DRM into the publisher's hand instead of Microsoft's forcing everyone to use their own form.

Something I do like about how Sony/Microsoft are doing things, is since Microsoft is forcing their DRM onto everyone, it should mean all Xbox One games are available for download day-one, which for me is a HUGE plus, while Sony's Day-One download games will probably be limited to Sony-published games only, and I've heard great things about the Gaikai service.

Obviously this is all speculation, but I'm quite interested to see how the final services pan out, but as stated above, I have no problem with Microsoft's DRM implementation and as an Xbox fanboy, I'm excited to get a console Day One.

Offline StrykerX

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #128 on: Wed, 12 June 2013, 20:49:05 »
At this moment, I'm still going to get an Xbox One. The $100 price difference is negligible to me. I love the media center capabilities and I'm actually excited about the Kinect 2 and the voice commands (but curious to see how to avoid abuse with this). I am always connected to the Internet and I don't take my Xbox to somewhere that isn't. I don't rent games or play used games, I don't actually do a ton of gaming on Xbox anyways. I'm mostly a PC gamer but I do love my occasional Halo and prefer to play GTA (soon V) on console (not that it's ever came out at the same time for PC anyways).

If you really think the government is going to have 24 hour surveillance on you through Kinect, you're one paranoid cat. You'd notice if a video stream was constantly uploading just by checking your network.

Offline DamienG

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #129 on: Wed, 12 June 2013, 22:03:44 »
Will be buying an Xbox One. $100 is less than the cost of two games, which amusingly enough is about how many PS3 exclusive games I've enjoyed so far (Little Big Planet, Heavy Rain).

While I have purchased and sold used games the effort/risk vs financial incentive is barely there. I only really sell them to clear space/avoid trash. Looking forward to day-of-release downloads instead and being able to play my games at a friends without taking a disk there (and same when friends come round)

Use my Xbox 360 a lot for Netflix, Hulu, Xfinity and HBO Go. Will want those features - I've tried Netflix on the PS3 and it's a mixed bunch. Higher def video but an interface that's really klunky. The real grinder on the PS3 is the awful patching mechanism (download then install, seriously?), the too-frequent system updates (that never seem to give me anything new) and having to hunt around to see if anything is going online in the store/video etc.

Once I'm done with The Last of Us and I have a Xbox One that can play back Blu-Ray the PS3 will be cycled out.

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Offline YoungMichael88

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #130 on: Thu, 13 June 2013, 03:39:39 »
Can anyone fill me in on what the PS4 has to offer media wise? Does it have any cool features aside from gaming like Xbox one has? TV etc? The features the Xbox One has in this area might be well worth the $100 extra. I'm not too butthurt about having to change inputs on my tv but the guide and voice commands to operate my satellite box and search for specific programming sounds great. What about Skype on PS4? It's almost a necessity for me while gaming now.
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Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #131 on: Thu, 13 June 2013, 04:52:27 »
Can anyone fill me in on what the PS4 has to offer media wise? Does it have any cool features aside from gaming like Xbox one has? TV etc? The features the Xbox One has in this area might be well worth the $100 extra. I'm not too butthurt about having to change inputs on my tv but the guide and voice commands to operate my satellite box and search for specific programming sounds great. What about Skype on PS4? It's almost a necessity for me while gaming now.

You can annoy all your friends with that goddamn share button and post crappy video replays to YouTube.

Offline YoungMichael88

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #132 on: Thu, 13 June 2013, 06:01:46 »
That share button is the worst! I get enough crap posts on social media as it is. Now we'll be bombarded even more!! Congratulations! You jumped your character off a tall cliff and earned an achievement! Now go do it yourself in real life! Hehe
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Offline y0fate

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #133 on: Thu, 13 June 2013, 07:27:29 »
I will not be owning one because it is a home entertainment system; not a console. Also (not thread crap) my 12 month old rig which cost me >$500 to put together out class' it and it is rumored to cost $600...soooo y'know. Also I think it looks like a DVD player not a console, there is no character to it. The controller is ugly; not quite the PS4 controller but they're fixing that which is not broken.
It's meant to look like a "DVD player", it's called the XBOX and for the first time it's an actual box!
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Offline baldgye

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #134 on: Thu, 13 June 2013, 08:09:33 »

Offline Tarzan

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #135 on: Thu, 13 June 2013, 08:22:25 »
Show Image


To be fair, I think there was also a PS3 mini version.  But the point is pretty clear.

 :cool:

Offline Lastpilot

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #136 on: Thu, 13 June 2013, 08:48:58 »
Whoa, I did not know the size gap was that much! Thanks for the comparison image. Man it makes you wonder what is inside that xbox that makes it so big.

Offline baldgye

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #137 on: Thu, 13 June 2013, 08:54:13 »
Having seen inside the XBONE it does contain one huge fan, which in theory would make it probably quieter than the PS4... but that's just going off the size really alone and assuming the PS4 uses a collection of smaller (louder) fans to distribute the heat.
Ofc the down side the XBONE's design is that you can't stack things on top of it becasue that's where the majority of the ventilation is.

Offline baldgye

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #138 on: Thu, 13 June 2013, 08:59:57 »
See, I can make **** up too!

The proper term is "speculate" OuO

Why speculate when you can look at existing trends... which show that the majority of gamers will be (in the future) buying there games from the internet and by doing so incur that DRM ecosystem (like Steam).
All Sony did was allow offline play and give a massive **** you to Microsoft in order to 'win' e3 and gain mind-share.

In the future Xbone's DRM system wont matter becasue the majority of people will be pre-loading games weeks before they come out anyway... all MS has done is **** over customers who can't make use of these services to appease publishers, when they didn't really need to.

Offline kmiller8

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #139 on: Thu, 13 June 2013, 10:33:00 »
Why speculate when you can look at existing trends... which show that the majority of gamers will be (in the future) buying there games from the internet and by doing so incur that DRM ecosystem (like Steam).
All Sony did was allow offline play and give a massive **** you to Microsoft in order to 'win' e3 and gain mind-share.

In the future Xbone's DRM system wont matter becasue the majority of people will be pre-loading games weeks before they come out anyway... all MS has done is **** over customers who can't make use of these services to appease publishers, when they didn't really need to.

le xbone, I'm so edgy and funny rite guize.

Let's look at the trends, oh, some last gen console games had an "online pass" from EA, oh, PC games from EA/Ubisoft are only playable through Origin/uPlay. Why wouldn't they push similar things to the next gen consoles? Well Xbox One is forcing all publishers to use their version of DRM, while Sony is just saying "do whatever the hell you want! it won't hurt us, we can just blame publishers when games don't work!"

Keep on dreaming of that DRM-Free safe-haven of the PS4. Just look at last gen's "disc-based" DRM, Xbox 360 would play any pirated game from just flashing the DVD drive, PS3 would play any pirated game when a special USB stick was inserted. Do you really think publishers are going to take that risk again? Sure you'll be able to share discs to play games, oh, but you want to play online, buy an online pass.

Yeah Microsoft's implementation is far from perfect, the 24h check-in is mindbogglingly stupid, but I prefer my game licenses tied to one singular account I already use on a day to day basis compared to 3-4 different accounts each relying on someone different to keep my game up and working.

Offline Binge

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #140 on: Thu, 13 June 2013, 10:35:20 »
Sony's PS3 has not been hacked in a way that pirating games is an issue.

Kmiller's projection is unfounded because Sony's bluray encryption, proprietary hardware, etc has proven itself.  They've probably got better non-invasive DRM concepts in the pipeline, but as things stand... try hack a PS3.  You won't enjoy the process or get much out of it.

The concept Kmiller is throwing around about PS4 DRM sounds hokey at best.
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Offline kmiller8

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #141 on: Thu, 13 June 2013, 10:54:45 »
Sony's PS3 has not been hacked in a way that pirating games is an issue.

Kmiller's projection is unfounded because Sony's bluray encryption, proprietary hardware, etc has proven itself.  They've probably got better non-invasive DRM concepts in the pipeline, but as things stand... try hack a PS3.  You won't enjoy the process or get much out of it.

The concept Kmiller is throwing around about PS4 DRM sounds hokey at best.

I may have over-exaggerated PS3 piracy, since I've never looked into that scene too heavily, but there still was the PSJailbreak which allowed for pirated game to very easily be played on a PS3. It obviously only worked on older firmwares and has been patched out, but for those people who have stuck around with the old firmware, and slowly upgraded using CFW are still able to play recent releases. For the proprietary hardware, sure that was a huge advantage to reduce PS3 hacking/homebrew, but with an x86 architecture, instead of the 7+1 custom cell, do you really not think it will be much easier for people to break into these systems?

As for my PS4 DRM, I truly hope it is just a concept, and that nothing like that is forced upon people, but like baldguy said, look at the past, and in the past EA pulled that bull**** "Online Pass" and why wouldn't they try it again with the new consoles? Now obviously Sony came out and said that yes, their self-published games would be free to exchange discs with friends who want to play, but Sony only publishes so many games, the rest will rely on third-party publishers to enact DRM however they see fit, either by not implementing it at all, or going balls to the walls forcing a constant internet connection (I think this only affected some PC games).

Now straying away from previous topics. Something I really hope to see is an Xbox One.2 or PS4+ in 3-4 years that utilized the freshest AMD APU's with more upgraded x86 and GPU architectures, since they are now using a constantly expanding architecture instead of custom ones that are never advanced throughout their lifetime (performance wise, I know the X360 chips were massively shrunk throughout it's lifetime). With these architectures, I wouldn't be surprised to see if this is one of the last console releases ever from these two. Since like I mentioned above, they just have to release upgraded APU models, and game designers only need to throw a few more GB of textures on a disc to make it look even better for the consoles that support it. That is of course assuming that x86 or AMD won't be dying anytime soon.

These two new consoles excite me very much, and I can't wait to see what kind of things they will bring to the gaming industry.

Offline baldgye

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #142 on: Thu, 13 June 2013, 10:57:43 »
Why speculate when you can look at existing trends... which show that the majority of gamers will be (in the future) buying there games from the internet and by doing so incur that DRM ecosystem (like Steam).
All Sony did was allow offline play and give a massive **** you to Microsoft in order to 'win' e3 and gain mind-share.

In the future Xbone's DRM system wont matter becasue the majority of people will be pre-loading games weeks before they come out anyway... all MS has done is **** over customers who can't make use of these services to appease publishers, when they didn't really need to.

le xbone, I'm so edgy and funny rite guize.

Let's look at the trends, oh, some last gen console games had an "online pass" from EA, oh, PC games from EA/Ubisoft are only playable through Origin/uPlay. Why wouldn't they push similar things to the next gen consoles? Well Xbox One is forcing all publishers to use their version of DRM, while Sony is just saying "do whatever the hell you want! it won't hurt us, we can just blame publishers when games don't work!"

Keep on dreaming of that DRM-Free safe-haven of the PS4. Just look at last gen's "disc-based" DRM, Xbox 360 would play any pirated game from just flashing the DVD drive, PS3 would play any pirated game when a special USB stick was inserted. Do you really think publishers are going to take that risk again? Sure you'll be able to share discs to play games, oh, but you want to play online, buy an online pass.

Yeah Microsoft's implementation is far from perfect, the 24h check-in is mindbogglingly stupid, but I prefer my game licenses tied to one singular account I already use on a day to day basis compared to 3-4 different accounts each relying on someone different to keep my game up and working.

Did you read what I said?
I didn't once say that PS4 was a "DRM-free safe-haven" ... I simply stated that the DRM measures put on xbone for physical disc's is only a negative and benefits no one bar the publishers, Sony have managed to side step this DRM measure thanks in part to what Binge pointed out, the security of the Blu-ray encryption and by the fact that gamers are going digital and consuimg more and more digital content... which by necessity has DRM baked in and everyone is fine with that DRM system becasue it makes logical sense and the benefits (accessibility/pre-loading etc) out weigh the negatives (locked to an account DRM etc).

Sony has moved the argument about DRM away from them and onto the Publishers who already garner hate from gamers. Microsoft should have done the same.

And yeah xbone becasue Xbox One is a hilariously bad name and becasue it merges Xbox and One into a single word.

Offline Lanx

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #143 on: Thu, 13 June 2013, 11:08:12 »
Having seen inside the XBONE it does contain one huge fan, which in theory would make it probably quieter than the PS4... but that's just going off the size really alone and assuming the PS4 uses a collection of smaller (louder) fans to distribute the heat.
Ofc the down side the XBONE's design is that you can't stack things on top of it becasue that's where the majority of the ventilation is.




holy jeez is that a 180mm?

Offline kmiller8

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #144 on: Thu, 13 June 2013, 11:18:51 »
Did you read what I said?
I didn't once say that PS4 was a "DRM-free safe-haven" ... I simply stated that the DRM measures put on xbone for physical disc's is only a negative and benefits no one bar the publishers, Sony have managed to side step this DRM measure thanks in part to what Binge pointed out, the security of the Blu-ray encryption and by the fact that gamers are going digital and consuimg more and more digital content... which by necessity has DRM baked in and everyone is fine with that DRM system becasue it makes logical sense and the benefits (accessibility/pre-loading etc) out weigh the negatives (locked to an account DRM etc).

Sony has moved the argument about DRM away from them and onto the Publishers who already garner hate from gamers. Microsoft should have done the same.

I see no problem with the way Microsoft is implementing their Disc based DRM, it's been like that for PC games for what seems like quite awhile. For example, when I bought Starcraft II, I didn't just pop the disc in and start playing instantly, I had to type in a code that was included with the disc, and it just copied data from the disc to my computer, why not do the same thing with consoles? Especially with this gen of consoles practically running PC hardware, just with some customized software running on it. One huge plus for me having games tied to my account, is the ability to play without needing the disc at all, I can't count how many xbox 360 games me and many other people I know are unable to play because the surface of the disc is damaged, having a game tied to your account removes this problem entirely. Goodbye physical media.

I agree with it being a good move on Sony to push DRM onto the publisher, let's just hope that publishers don't push excessive DRM onto the customers...

I really want to compare this situation to the current situation on the PC market with Steam being Microsoft and all the other ones being Sony, but that would imply that Microsoft's DRM was like steam, which would allow for offline play without needing to phone home every 24 hours, is that really the only difference? This is how in my opinion Microsoft could fix their DRM problem, force a user online to activate their copy of the game (I'm assuming it's going to be code-based and obviously each code can only be redeemed once with Microsoft servers), and force a user online whenever they want to trade a game (kinda logical). I honestly see no reason they need a console to connect more than in those two situations, of course that's with me assuming that Microsoft will be using a one-time-use code per game, and not some other form of differentiating copies of games.

Offline Lanx

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #145 on: Thu, 13 June 2013, 11:27:13 »
that's true i ought dialo3 when it came out, i don't even refer to it as a game as i do an account, so i say i bought 2 accounts, one for me and wife, cuz we had the "special code" we had to login with an email address. my point is i installed the game twice, once on each pc. I have 3 main pc's mine/hers/htpc. I only have a bluray/dvd/burner in the htpc so i share that drive across the network to install anything (makes sense why by a drive i use once? but i use it lots for bluray on my htpc... if i don't want to use the ps3, which i always do... so). since then i've reinstalled the game twice, and both times i just downloaded the game from blizzard cuz i didn't want to find the disc again and turn on my htpc to share the discs.

should just be able to download all games this way from microsoft, associated special code to gamer tag and that's it, download, stream, play.

Offline baldgye

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #146 on: Thu, 13 June 2013, 11:29:11 »
Did you read what I said?
I didn't once say that PS4 was a "DRM-free safe-haven" ... I simply stated that the DRM measures put on xbone for physical disc's is only a negative and benefits no one bar the publishers, Sony have managed to side step this DRM measure thanks in part to what Binge pointed out, the security of the Blu-ray encryption and by the fact that gamers are going digital and consuimg more and more digital content... which by necessity has DRM baked in and everyone is fine with that DRM system becasue it makes logical sense and the benefits (accessibility/pre-loading etc) out weigh the negatives (locked to an account DRM etc).

Sony has moved the argument about DRM away from them and onto the Publishers who already garner hate from gamers. Microsoft should have done the same.

I see no problem with the way Microsoft is implementing their Disc based DRM, it's been like that for PC games for what seems like quite awhile. For example, when I bought Starcraft II, I didn't just pop the disc in and start playing instantly, I had to type in a code that was included with the disc, and it just copied data from the disc to my computer, why not do the same thing with consoles? Especially with this gen of consoles practically running PC hardware, just with some customized software running on it. One huge plus for me having games tied to my account, is the ability to play without needing the disc at all, I can't count how many xbox 360 games me and many other people I know are unable to play because the surface of the disc is damaged, having a game tied to your account removes this problem entirely. Goodbye physical media.

I agree with it being a good move on Sony to push DRM onto the publisher, let's just hope that publishers don't push excessive DRM onto the customers...

I really want to compare this situation to the current situation on the PC market with Steam being Microsoft and all the other ones being Sony, but that would imply that Microsoft's DRM was like steam, which would allow for offline play without needing to phone home every 24 hours, is that really the only difference? This is how in my opinion Microsoft could fix their DRM problem, force a user online to activate their copy of the game (I'm assuming it's going to be code-based and obviously each code can only be redeemed once with Microsoft servers), and force a user online whenever they want to trade a game (kinda logical). I honestly see no reason they need a console to connect more than in those two situations, of course that's with me assuming that Microsoft will be using a one-time-use code per game, and not some other form of differentiating copies of games.

Starcraft II isn't a good example, it's sales have been good as an RTS game but not compared to a global AAA console game, second to that at its core its an online multilayer RTS game with a good single player.
If you want to make a good comparison it would be with Steam and if you do that Steam sounds like a better deal in nearly every possible way. You can play offline (is it two weeks?) you don't need to check every 24hrs to make sure your online in order to play games. Yet Steam sales have been insane and turned Steam into something that was once hated into a pretty amazing service that has helped make PC gaming something even an idiot can do.

Xbone's DRM system is too invasive and offers no benefit to consumers, on top of that it's relenting requirement for essentially always online makes somewhere like Europe a bit of a problem unless you live in a City having access to the internet every day isn't always possible. My girlfriend's internet and wireless system is so bad she can barely connect her PS3 long enough to download updates...

The difference between this and the current DRM offered by EA and Valve is that you can still play games offline and those who have internet problems aren't excluded.
It's a short sighted foolish solution to a problem that isn't even really a problem and that will be gone long before the next generation.

Offline Binge

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #147 on: Thu, 13 June 2013, 11:43:03 »
Microsoft's biggest issue is that they want to monitor people to make sure they don't hack.  Play station and sony have a LONG history of making sure original content is extremely hard and impractical to pirate.  Yeah, you can rip a bluray, but you'll have to re-encode it with some loss in conversion.  People will just not get a lossless conversion to a different unencrypted format without losing something... the software to do it is just expensive or not readily available.  I've tried.  Scenes with lots of motion/color dept and the like just get hurt.  Owning the original with Sony is actually like owning a quality product.  That's just talking about viewed media.

With games there have been a handful and only a handful of exploits which were all shut down so quickly it really burnt a lot of hackers.  It's discouraging how good they are at locking down hacker's systems/methods of exploit.

Their new console may be x86 to a degree, but how are you going to address the main memory of the system?  That's ALWAYS been the hardest part of hacking the PS3.  They made it virtually impossible to bootleg access to their ram.  If your application can't access the memory of the system then you can't load it... simple.  This is just ONE of the methods deterring hackers.  Now the PS3 has GDDR5 as main memory shared with the GPU... that sounds like they've maid yet another proprietary system of memory management.  Good luck hackers...

With respect to EA publishing DRM that you have to register online?  Well... they have all the right in the world to fk themselves over.  Microsoft taking the reigns and assuring publishers of secured assets is going to be equally as damning.  The restrictions to play a $60+ dollar game are getting worse and worse.

Bunch of crap.... bunch of crap.  Love my PC, love not hacking, love it when a type of enforcement (sony's hardware and software content protect) offer people a solution as well as a deterrent.  The solution is that you play by the rules and you get authentic quality.  It always has been that mindset with Sony that has made Bluray successful and attractive, and even though the PS3 is not the most attractive system of its time it was by no means a failure as much as it was a really rough transition for them into a new age of gaming.  I believe the same of the xbox360 in some regards.  I love the xbox360... the xbox one seems like another "stepping stone" system similar to the xbox, which really was not ready for prime time.  The concept and design are off, but they're using this to learn.

If people talk with their money, and people discuss their want for Microsoft to find a better solution maybe the XBox Three Sixty will come out and we'll get another good console.
« Last Edit: Thu, 13 June 2013, 12:00:48 by Binge »
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Offline kmiller8

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #148 on: Thu, 13 June 2013, 11:48:36 »
Starcraft II isn't a good example, it's sales have been good as an RTS game but not compared to a global AAA console game, second to that at its core its an online multilayer RTS game with a good single player.
If you want to make a good comparison it would be with Steam and if you do that Steam sounds like a better deal in nearly every possible way. You can play offline (is it two weeks?) you don't need to check every 24hrs to make sure your online in order to play games. Yet Steam sales have been insane and turned Steam into something that was once hated into a pretty amazing service that has helped make PC gaming something even an idiot can do.

Xbone's DRM system is too invasive and offers no benefit to consumers, on top of that it's relenting requirement for essentially always online makes somewhere like Europe a bit of a problem unless you live in a City having access to the internet every day isn't always possible. My girlfriend's internet and wireless system is so bad she can barely connect her PS3 long enough to download updates...

The difference between this and the current DRM offered by EA and Valve is that you can still play games offline and those who have internet problems aren't excluded.
It's a short sighted foolish solution to a problem that isn't even really a problem and that will be gone long before the next generation.

I was using Starcraft II as an example of a recent game purchase of mine, Age of Empires II has a CD Key, Lego Island has a CD Key, Roller Coaster Tycoon Gold Edition did not have a CD Key IIRC, but I bought it a few years ago many many years after release. What I'm trying to say is, as a PC Gamer, I've been dealing with some form of DRM for quite some time, and it is no big deal for me.

I don't see how Steam is better in every way possible if the only major difference is the ability to play offline for two weeks instead of 24 hours, there are a lot more comparisons that can be made, especially with content delivery and management. Also I don't see how the DRM is "too invasive" if it's auto-connecting to Microsoft servers once ever 24 hours, it's not like your console is going to force you to stop everything you're doing once every 24 hours to phone-home (or I really really really hope that's not how it is). That's unfortunate to hear about your experience with network problems, I've been rocking a WRT54G for 7+ years now and have had no problems with wireless, even though internet to our house can be spotty at times. As for ****ty internet across Europe, in case you didn't  know Microsoft just confirmed that the Xbox One will only work in 21 countries.

To me, it's like the PS4 is PC gaming back in the beginnings, where it was up to company to company to decide how to implement their DRM and the Xbox One is the future, where there is some super-Steam-like-service encompassing all PC games, whichever one you find better is up to you.

List of Microsoft Approved Countries (incase you're interested)

Australia
Austria
Belgium
Brazil
Canada
Denmark
Finland
France
Germany
Ireland
Italy
Mexico
Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Russia
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom
United States

Offline kmiller8

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Re: Xbox One Discussion Thread
« Reply #149 on: Thu, 13 June 2013, 12:01:40 »
Microsoft's biggest issue is that they want to monitor people to make sure they don't hack.  Play station and sony have a LONG history of making sure original content is extremely hard and impractical to pirate.  Yeah, you can rip a bluray, but you'll have to re-encode it with some loss in conversion.  People will just not get a lossless conversion to a different unencrypted format without losing something... the software to do it is just expensive or not readily available.  I've tried.  Scenes with lots of motion/color dept and the like just get hurt.  Owning the original with Sony is actually like owning a quality product.  That's just talking about viewed media.

With games there have been a handful and only a handful of exploits which were all shut down so quickly it really burnt a lot of hackers.  It's discouraging how good they are at locking down hacker's systems/methods of exploit.

Their new console may be x86 to a degree, but how are you going to address the main memory of the system?  That's ALWAYS been the hardest part of hacking the PS3.  They made it virtually impossible to bootleg access to their ram.  If your application can't access the memory of the system then you can't load it... simple.  This is just ONE of the methods deterring hackers.  Now the PS3 has GDDR5 as main memory shared with the GPU... that sounds like they've maid yet another proprietary system of memory management.  Good luck hackers...

With respect to EA publishing DRM that you have to register online?  Well... they have all the right in the world to fk themselves over.  Microsoft taking the reigns and assuring publishers of secured assets is going to be equally as damning.  The restrictions to play a $60+ dollar game are getting worse and worse.

Bunch of crap.... bunch of crap.  Love my PC, love not hacking, love it when a type of enforcement (sony's hardware and software content protect) offer people a solution as well as a deterrent.  The solution is that you play by the rules and you get authentic quality.  It always has been that mindset with Sony that has made Bluray successful and attractive, and even though the PS3 is not the most attractive system of its time it was by no means a failure as much as it was a really rough transition for them into a new age of gaming.  I believe the same of the xbox360 in some regards.  I love the xbox360... the xbox one seems like another "stepping stone" system similar to the xbox.  It really was not ready for prime time.  The concept and design are off, but they're using this to learn.

If people talk with their money, and people discuss their want for Microsoft to find a better solution maybe the XBox Three Sixty will come out and we'll get another good console.

To be fair, encoding is a WHOLE other topic, but I can see your point, but I don't get how it can relate to gaming, you either copy the disc/game, or you don't.

That's very true with the GDDR5 memory being a completely customized system by Sony, but I had thought the PS3's biggest deterrent was the 8 core Cell processor with one core dedicated to security, not the memory itself, I'll have to go do more reading on that before making any further statements.

With the Publisher-specific DRM, I understand that they're just ****ing themselves as a publisher and not affecting Sony, but still, I don't like how I've seen people generalize that every single PS4 game will be able to be shared just via the disk with no restrictions whatsoever, obviously I tried to give examples in the extreme case of this, but someone has to play devils advocate sometimes.

One final note about hacking on PS3, I thought that pretty much any CoD older than a year was flooded with (public) hacked lobbies? Like I said above, I've never used a PS3, only heard about it from friends.