Looking for keyboard with: Unix layout & PS2 connection

[chuckw]

Hello,

I have been trying to find a keyboard that has these two specific features:

• Unix layout: actually, all I need is to swap the capslock and control keys from their "normal" layout - i.e. I want ctrl to be to the left of the 'a' key. (I am not able to swap them via software)
• Can connect to a PS2 port, either directly or with an adaptor.

So far, I have looked at the HHK lite 2 and the Leopold FC660C. But I'm not sure about a couple of things regarding these two keyboards: For the HHK, it appears that it only comes in USB, and the folks at http://www.fentek-ind.com/ told me that it won't work with a USB-to-PS2 adaptor. For the FC660C, I'm not sure if it will work with a PS2 adaptor.

Any advice or guidance would be most appreciated!

Thanks very much!

[mich]

Custom order from Unicomp, I remember that somebody here got a Unix layout Model M from them. Contact customer support.

IBM Model F AT.

Northgate Omnikey with DIP switches.

Sun Microsystems also made Unix layout keyboards, but I'm not sure if there were PS/2 versions and I am sure that there were version with proprietary connector similar in appearance to PS/2 - be careful. These have the "Sun Unix layout", with differently arranged ESC, ~, \ and BACKSPACE as well as CTRL on the left.

[chuckw]

Thanks mich! Greats leads. I have contacted Unicomp http://pckeyboard.com/ and am waiting for a response. Thanks again for the suggestions!

[Findecanor]

For the HHK, it appears that it only comes in USB

The HHKB Lite / HHKB Lite 2 used to be available in PS/2 versions. The last was discontinued in 2008.
Wikipedia has a list of model numbers.

[Betty]

• Unix layout: actually, all I need is to swap the capslock and control keys from their "normal" layout - i.e. I want ctrl to be to the left of the 'a' key. (I am not able to swap them via software)

As I mentioned several times here, it is no problem to swap your CapsLock and Ctrl keys on ANY keyboard. (I assume you are working with an Unix or Linux OS, but I would gues this can be done with win**** too)
Under Mac OS X you can use free tools such as  KeyRemap4MacBook (but the application is not really MacBook specific) and PCKeyboardHack.
With Linux you can probably do this with your desktop environment or xmodmap. xmodmap is a bit tricky, but you can find a lot with google or pm me.
Then you can by a additional Ctrl keycap and you are done.
I did this with all my keyboards (Filco, Poker), except the DAS keyboard because I bought the ultimate edition and the keycaps are blank anyway.

In conclusion get yourself the keyboard you want, with the connector you want, and modify the layout.

Edit: I didn't stop with CapsLock, you can modify ANY key on your keyboard, at least with Linux, I don't have much experience on the other 'big' os.

[Findecanor]

In modern Linux environments, there should be a way to map Caps Lock to Control using the GUI.
I use a somewhat dated version of Ubuntu with Gnome 2. The option "System" menu->"Preferences"->"Keyboard"->"Layout" tab->"Options" button->"Ctrl key position" arrow->Select the "Make CapsLock an additional Ctrl" option.

For Windows 7, there are registry hacks you can do. Just google for it and you will find it.

Back in the '90s, I did it with TweakUI under Windows and xmodmap under Linux.

[Betty]

Back in the '90s, I did it with TweakUI under Windows and xmodmap under Linux.

With setxkbmap it got a bit more confusing, but you can still use xmodmap if you want to.Even though it is easier to do CapsLock->Ctrl with a appropriate tool from gnome or kde,
it is very limited in the possible modifications e.g. i really liked the escape key on the left of the 1 key (where usually tilde is placed) on the hhkb so I started to modify the layout for all other keyboards
and swapped escape with tilde. This is not possible with most tools with an interface, but it is with xmodmap.

[davkol]

I have been trying to find a keyboard that has these two specific features:

• Unix layout: actually, all I need is to swap the capslock and control keys from their "normal" layout - i.e. I want ctrl to be to the left of the 'a' key. (I am not able to swap them via software)
• Can connect to a PS2 port, either directly or with an adaptor.

Noppoo Choc Mini

[rootwyrm]

Custom order from Unicomp, I remember that somebody here got a Unix layout Model M from them. Contact customer support.

IBM Model F AT.

Northgate Omnikey with DIP switches.

Sun Microsystems also made Unix layout keyboards, but I'm not sure if there were PS/2 versions and I am sure that there were version with proprietary connector similar in appearance to PS/2 - be careful. These have the "Sun Unix layout", with differently arranged ESC, ~, \ and BACKSPACE as well as CTRL on the left.

Unicomp offers the Caps/Control swap as a standard option in fact, so yes, they're you're best bet.

No, Sun did not at any point offer any PS/2 keyboards whatsoever. The SunPCi's keyboard was a software takeoff from the host. Sun 386i was proprietary and I believe Type3 protocol. The Type4 was only used on the 3/80 family. There were absolutely none with "PS/2" like connectors ever. All Sun keyboards are the distinct MiniDIN 8A because of the mouse passthrough or straight up D-shells (Type3.) They're serial too - 1200,8N1.
Sun's layout stupidity started on the Type3 because while they built an interesting machine, they were complete IDIOTS. The Type4 and Type5 have Tilde in completely different locations and have completely different layouts. (And the Type5 is a pile of crap anyway. Fujitsu rubber dome.) And the Type3 is an ungainly and ugly piece of crap. But yeah, you see that key to the left of F1 to the right of HELP? Yeah. That's a dead key on the Type5. Same deal on the Type6 which is a cut-rate USB piece of crap worse than the worst Dell which Sun (now Oracle) charges $250+ for.

So yes, just go Unicomp. They can even offer you the option of stepped or non-stepped Control.

[mich]

FWIW, I've seen a guy who typed on this "USB piece of crap worst than the worst Dell" and had an unused Unicomp laying on his desk

But this was at work, so maybe others forced him... Or maybe it was the layout, actually I think Type6 layout could be quite good for vim. Too bad I've never found one for less than $10 shipped and I'm not used to spending more on rubber domes

[yicaoyimu]

Just wondering, why can't you switch the key mapping via software? There should be a better work-around for your need.

[Betty]

Just wondering, why can't you switch the key mapping via software? There should be a better work-around for your need.

Did you even read a few post, or did you hit the reply button right away?

Or maybe it was the layout, actually I think Type6 layout could be quite good for vim. Too bad I've never found one for less than $10 shipped and I'm not used to spending more on rubber domes

Yes the layout is probably the best you can have for vim, (someone told me) emacs, and the whole Unix environment, because this is the layout these programms were written on.
I think this is were all the "you are a computer scientist you have to love a hhkb" comes from. BTW this was the first sentence which was replied to me on this forum.

But thats no excuse for using a cheap keyboard instead of a unicomp, you don't need root access to most of the os to change the keyboard layout.
Probably you would need something similar with Windows, but on the other hand it's Windows.  )

[rootwyrm]

Yes the layout is probably the best you can have for vim, (someone told me) emacs, and the whole Unix environment, because this is the layout these programms were written on.
I think this is were all the "you are a computer scientist you have to love a hhkb" comes from. BTW this was the first sentence which was replied to me on this forum.

But thats no excuse for using a cheap keyboard instead of a unicomp, you don't need root access to most of the os to change the keyboard layout.
Probably you would need something similar with Windows, but on the other hand it's Windows.  )

Anyone who thinks "programmer must have HHKB" should get their pathetic butt back to their idiotic kin at HN and Reddit.

And no, vi was not written on keyboards like that. It was never written on keyboards like that. My gods. Keyboards like that didn't exist when vi was created. First of all, vi was created by Bill Joy - who yes, later went on to join Sun - in 1976. Which predates the Sun Type3 keyboard by about a decade to my recollection.
The Sun-1 didn't even have function keys. Oh, and note how CapsLock is to the left of A. Yep. That is the real deal Sun 100/Sun 150 keyboard.
Oh, but I mentioned pre-Sun - because Bill Joy used an ADM-3A. Which has an even more convoluted and unusable layout. The commonality between a Sun-1 and a ADMA3 is basically nonexistent. But the simple fact is that the ADM-3A is the root of the Ctrl location, which had everything to do with the special key combinations on the terminal and absolutely nothing to do with the editor.

So pretty much most folks claiming it's the "best for vim because that's what it was designed for" is A) completely full of it B) has no clue what the hell they're talking about and C) a complete and total idiot for not knowing the DEC VT05 which emacs was written on has Ctrl in the same approximate location. Oh and D) somebody who's never worked on Unix in their life. No Unix OS has ever shipped 'vim' standard, only vi. And they are not the same.

[yicaoyimu]

Just wondering, why can't you switch the key mapping via software? There should be a better work-around for your need.

Did you even read a few post, or did you hit the reply button right away?

Fact is, I did read all posts. All I saw was, a few people providing ways to modify key mapping and chuckw saying nothing about why he/she can't do this on software level. That's what makes me wonder.

[yicaoyimu]

Yes the layout is probably the best you can have for vim, (someone told me) emacs, and the whole Unix environment, because this is the layout these programms were written on.
I think this is were all the "you are a computer scientist you have to love a hhkb" comes from. BTW this was the first sentence which was replied to me on this forum.

But thats no excuse for using a cheap keyboard instead of a unicomp, you don't need root access to most of the os to change the keyboard layout.
Probably you would need something similar with Windows, but on the other hand it's Windows.  )

Anyone who thinks "programmer must have HHKB" should get their pathetic butt back to their idiotic kin at HN and Reddit.

And no, vi was not written on keyboards like that. It was never written on keyboards like that. My gods. Keyboards like that didn't exist when vi was created. First of all, vi was created by Bill Joy - who yes, later went on to join Sun - in 1976. Which predates the Sun Type3 keyboard by about a decade to my recollection.
The Sun-1 didn't even have function keys. Oh, and note how CapsLock is to the left of A. Yep. That is the real deal Sun 100/Sun 150 keyboard.
Oh, but I mentioned pre-Sun - because Bill Joy used an ADM-3A. Which has an even more convoluted and unusable layout. The commonality between a Sun-1 and a ADMA3 is basically nonexistent. But the simple fact is that the ADM-3A is the root of the Ctrl location, which had everything to do with the special key combinations on the terminal and absolutely nothing to do with the editor.

So pretty much most folks claiming it's the "best for vim because that's what it was designed for" is A) completely full of it B) has no clue what the hell they're talking about and C) a complete and total idiot for not knowing the DEC VT05 which emacs was written on has Ctrl in the same approximate location. Oh and D) somebody who's never worked on Unix in their life. No Unix OS has ever shipped 'vim' standard, only vi. And they are not the same.

Point well taken! Preference for keyboard is completely personal. I use emacs and work on *NIX system all the time. And the layout of Realforce 87 does not bother me at all. Personally, I would like to have consistency between external keyboard and laptop keyboard, cuz even if you use HHKB, you will have to use laptop keyboard sometimes. Back to the fundamental, keyboard is no more than a tool. And there is no one-right-keyboard for a group of people.