Save up for the HHKB Pro 2 or Get the DAS 3

[Eclairz]

Remember this is coming from a guy who already has another blue cherry keyboard variant. I'm still unsure whether I should just get the DAS 3 while its cheap before price goes up after september or just save up for the mighty expensive HHKB Pro 2 which will allow me to feel if the hype about this keyboard was actually worth it. Either way i'm going to get a blank keycap keyboard as my next major keyboard purchase.

Or do you think other keyboards like the Topre or the Filco are better purchases?

[xsphat]

So many people here have the HHKB Pro 2 and yet no one complains about it.

Decide for yourself, but I'd go with the HHKB Pro 2 if I were you.

[Ulysses31]

It may be heretical for me to say this, but if Fujitsu ever decided to make a full-sized version of the HHKB Pro (with all the keys that some of us can't do without) i'd snap it up no matter what the cost.  I guess something from the Topre range is closer to what i'd get.

[ashort]

The amazing thing about the HHKB  2PRo is that it seems to, despite it's form factor, have all the keys that no one wants to do without.  It has all the Apple keys that I would require.  Disclaimer:  I'm not an onwer....yet.

[alpslover]

Remember this is coming from a guy who already has another blue cherry keyboard variant. I'm still unsure whether I should just get the DAS 3 while its cheap before price goes up after september

the price has already gone up.

[Ulysses31]

I was just thinking about how I need to use a lot of keyboard short-cuts in various applications that I use.  From what I can tell, the HHKB system requires you to use modifier keys just to access certain ordinary functions (like F-keys, arrows for example).  The left Control should be in-line with the Alt key V_V.  Therefore trying to use this for anything other than straight typing/coding would probably a huge headache for me.  I also like my cursor-keys to be in a separate cluster.  I know the "Lite" version has a separate cluster but everyone here seems to think that sucks.  Screwing around with decades-old layouts isn't necessarily a good thing if you want to maintain interoperability between different systems.

[JulienC]

The left Control should be in-line with the Alt key V_V.

I, too, was used to the left Ctrl key to be on the bottom key line. After seeing keyboards with the Ctrl key just beside the 'a' (like the ones on the Sun terminals at my university), I remapped my own Caps Lock key to Ctrl (using xmodmap on linux) to try it out.

At first it felt a bit weird and as a reflex I was still using the bottom Ctrl for some shortcuts, but after a little while I got used to it and use it exclusively now.

I would suggest trying it on a normal keyboard as I did, it makes a smoother transition when you can still use the bottom Ctrl key.

I'm also saving up for the HHKB Pro 2.

[Bluemercury]

I already paid for a HHKP2, but im considering getting the DASIII even though i have the II version.....

[bigpook]

For those that use linux and want to swap the left Control key with the Caps Lock key, and  swap the escape and tilde key


xmodmap -e "keycode 9 = grave asciitilde"
xmodmap -e "keycode 49 = Escape"
xmodmap -e "remove Lock = Caps_Lock"
xmodmap -e "remove Control = Control_L"
xmodmap -e "keysym Control_L = Caps_Lock"
xmodmap -e "keysym Caps_Lock = Control_L"
xmodmap -e "add Lock = Caps_Lock"
xmodmap -e "add Control = Control_L"



copy this to /home/user/.Xmodmap

I create an alias to call it after I log in. It works great on my IBM model M's

[xsphat]

And btw, what missing keys?

[jemkeys]

HHKBpro2, definitely.

If you want a full-size keyboard, I think Topre makes something along those lines.

But these capacitive switches are a joy to type on.  I'll never need another keyboard.

[Ulysses31]

I didn't think you could fit all those keys on there, especially not the PageUp/Down group.  Is it possible to lock down the modifier key so that you don't have to be keeping it pressed while, say, using the arrow keys?  Topre 86UBK would be nice but I can't see any Japanese vendors that sell that version.  I searched using the Japanese characters spelling out "Topre" but all they had were the 108/91 type keyboards.

[bhtooefr]

Way, way too many modifier keys necessary for my tastes.

(I'll note that my preferred layout for a spacesaver is the one that was originally done by the Model M spacesaver, though.)

[Korbin]

Screwing around with decades-old layouts isn't necessarily a good thing if you want to maintain interoperability between different systems.

So true.... especially for americans using the keyboard layout (QWERTY) that was designed back in the 1860's to SLOW the typist down so the typewriter wouldn't get jammed .

But anyway, I say definately go for the HHKB. It will take a little getting use to using the 3 and 4 key chords but it will eventually become second nature.

[Bluemercury]

i wonder how hard will it be to adapt the HHKP to Portuguese layout.....

[vils]

I use my HHKB2 pro as a swedish keyboard. I just told windows it was one. Some key prints don't match what I get on screen when pressed upon. Albeit, they are just a handful. Works smoothly.

/Vils

[xsphat]

but most of the qwerty users here, myself included, can type at over 70 wpm, so it doesn't really seen to be holding us back and Word doesn't jam on me ...

[bhtooefr]

Me typing on a typebar typewriter is not a pretty sight.

Even with QWERTY, I type fast enough that I usually get three or four typebars jammed together every couple sentences, unless I slow down.

[Korbin]

but most of the qwerty users here, myself included, can type at over 70 wpm, so it doesn't really seen to be holding us back and Word doesn't jam on me ...

70 words a minute.... that's pretty quick. Let's hope your fingers don't jam on you (RSI)

[Eclairz]

I'm a programmer not a writer so i often have little need to type quickly. The main gripes I have for this keyboard is Programability (Fn key chording) and separate arrow keys and the weird Control button being pushed up into the caps lock button (sounds like if I ever got used to this keyboard it would be hell typing with anything else).

Minor things to note that I would prefer are clicky version I like my audible feedback of my blue cherrys. And that the keyboard comes in american format only so the left shift bar is long where I prefer the european short left Shift. Doesn't come in duotone which looked cool when someone did it.

Otherwise discounting these minors, I will probably save up for one, it will cost a fortune £200 O_O which is crazy money. The main plus point of the keyboard is its small form factor, silent tactile (useful when you need to keep quiet), style (oozes the cool factor), USB hub, compatibility between mac os x and windows, blank key caps (need to properly learn to touch type by not looking at the keyboard 100% instead of 80% of the time).

I think if Fujitsu made a programmable version of this keyboard with cherry blues or clicky capacitors and dedicated arrow keys it would be a much more buyable keyboard for me. Currently the macbook style of arrow keys suits me fine and would fit right under the right shift, but the main difficulty being whether you could fit capcitor switches in such  a short keys. Also like the macbook being able to assign page up and page down to up and down with arrow keys seem preferable. and also have a second Fn key like the lite.

[sashomasho]

I'm a programmer not a writer so i often have little need to type quickly. The main gripes I have for this keyboard is Programability (Fn key chording) and separate arrow keys and the weird Control button being pushed up into the caps lock button (sounds like if I ever got used to this keyboard it would be hell typing with anything else).

I'm a programmer too, and being a happy owner of the HHKB for more than 3 months I can tell you, that there аре little to none moments when I'm wondering what key combo I need to press to get my editor do what I want to... There were some combos like ctrl+shift+pgup which I've been using for a long time mechanically and even didn't know what I'm pressing, so these took some time but now - not a problem, really... I type on it at home and when I go to a friend of mine with the laptop to program our things, at my office I'm with my filco or with macally, (both with remapped capslock keys as control, that's mandatory), I have more problem with the latter than with the HHKB. it's not that difficult, once when you get used to it, after some time - the only thing you feel is satisfaction...

[xsphat]

Well put.

[lowpoly]

On my HHKB I started out with the right Fn key for the cursor keys. That didn't work too well as I had to leave the home row and sometimes would miss the exact position. Resulting for ex. in Ctrl-Enter instead of Ctrl-CrsrRight. Which might just send your unfinished form.

Now I use the left Fn key (dip switch, just left of space). I press it with my left thumb which I never used before anyway. Now, all the cursor keys are directly available without leaving the home row. So much better than having to move the hand to separate cursor keys.

[Eclairz]

Its mainly the weird diamond set of cursor keys which just doesn't sit well with me. Maybe the next HHKB Pro 3 is the HHKB Lite Layout with capacitor keyswitches which would be slightly more preferable.

[xbla0x]

So true.... especially for americans using the keyboard layout (QWERTY) that was designed back in the 1860's to SLOW the typist down so the typewriter wouldn't get jammed .

But anyway, I say definately go for the HHKB. It will take a little getting use to using the 3 and 4 key chords but it will eventually become second nature.

Actually, this is a myth. It wasn't meant to slow them down.. It was meant to separate hammer strikes by alternating striking patterns between hands. It just so happens this is better for humans, since our brains are better able to alternate halves.

[itlnstln]

Wow. Minus iMav, ch_123, and myself, this thread has about all the members that  existed back then.

[itlnstln]

I know.  My life will be changed forever.

[Eric5676]

Actually, this is a myth. It wasn't meant to slow them down.. It was meant to separate hammer strikes by alternating striking patterns between hands. It just so happens this is better for humans, since our brains are better able to alternate halves.

Interesting thread necromancy.

[theferenc]

Dr. Frankenstein: Now that brain that you gave me. Was it Hans Delbruck's?
Igor: ...No.
Dr. Frankenstein: Ah! Very good. Would you mind telling me whose brain I DID put in?
Igor: Then you won't be angry?
Dr. Frankenstein: I will NOT be angry.
Igor: Abby Someone.
Dr. Frankenstein: ...Abby Someone. Abby who?
Igor: Abby...Normal.
Dr. Frankenstein: ...Abby Normal?
Igor: I'm almost sure that was the name.
Dr. Frankenstein: Are you saying that I put an abnormal brain into a seven and a half foot long, fifty-four inch wide GORILLA?
Dr. Frankenstein: Is that what you're telling me?

One of the best exchanges in a movie EVER.