Who is using Cherry stabs these days besides Cherry?

[rootwyrm]

I suppose subject says it all more or less. Frankly, I can't stand Costar stabilizers. Hate them with the fury of a million suns. (Shush. It's a matter of personal preference.)

So the question is: who's using Cherry stabilizers besides Cherry themselves these days? I don't like the MXBoard 3.0. It's not a bad keyboard, I just don't like it. And despite my efforts, damned if I can find any sort of authoritative list of which manufacturer/model is using what stabilizers. I know the PLUM96 is Cherry stabilizers, but what else is out there?

[nebo]

I believe leopold does.

[Hyde]

A lot of companies actually.

Ducky, Corsair, SteelSeries, CM Storm TK, CM Storm Trigger, Poker (Possibly Pure and Race), and maybe a few more lol.


EDIT:  Right Leopold too, how could I forget that.

[davkol]

Well, almost everything (except Costar and iOne ^_^), but I'm not sure if those stabilizers on Asian keyboards are exactly the same as stabs made by Cherry. Maybe I should just go and check it.

Ducky, Leopold, iRocks, that mysterious OEM(s) that makes QF TK, G710+ and the new Das Pro, possibly Keycool (IIRC some of their keyboards used Costar clones),...

[dante]

From what I understand Leopold FC200R have fake Cherry stabilizers while the FC700R have the real deal.

[rootwyrm]

Well, almost everything (except Costar and iOne ^_^), but I'm not sure if those stabilizers on Asian keyboards are exactly the same as stabs made by Cherry. Maybe I should just go and check it.

Ducky, Leopold, iRocks, that mysterious OEM(s) that makes QF TK, G710+ and the new Das Pro, possibly Keycool (IIRC some of their keyboards used Costar clones),...

I think I asked elsewhere for photos of the QF TK PCBs in hope of IDing the manufacturer? If not, well, hey. Asked.

But yeah, that's the problem. Some of the Cherry stabilizers are NOT Cherry stabilizers. They're either clones (almost the same) or knockoffs (junk like the FC200R and Das). Ducky I thought was using Costar-style on some models though?

That's why the thread - there's a fair amount of confusion. Like with Keycool I can tell you that the Mars/Venus/etc special editions are Cherry stabilized PCB-pin wire. But the Keycool 87 is Costar-knockoff. Whereas the Wyse PC286 Enhanced is Cherry stabilized plate-pin float. I suppose that's another question right there - since most people don't realize that Cherry stabilizers actually come in four flavors.
No. Really. Scroll down. There's PCB-pin where the retaining pins for the wire are mounted to the PCB, and there's plate-pin where the wire is retained by hooks or slots. But it gets more complicated from there. Let's break it down.

• PCB-pin Float - more typical where the wire is only anchored in the stabilizer itself and rests on the PCB.
• PCB-pin Full Anchor - a full soldered in pin which anchors the wire to the PCB. Seems fairly uncommon? I've not seen any in a while.
• Plate-pin Slot/Float - the wire slots into openings which anchor in two directions, like an L bend or shelf.
• Plate-pin Locking - the wire is locked in by a curved element which prevents removal (or snaps in). The least common of all IME.

Possibly not the best explanation, but you get the idea. These are all of course, approved methods per Cherry. In truth, they can probably be simplified as "over-under" in that a plate style places the pivot above (over) the horizontal mounting plane and PCB style places the pivot level (under) with the PCB. There's also Unlinked/Free Floating where the stabilizer elements do not have a connecting wire. So maybe we should add a Wiki page with a listing of who's using which type of Cherry stabilizers?

For now though, my QFR's going out the door for good and I need to find a replacement. I do like Ducky, but I can't tell if they're PCB float or plate float. Does anyone know which the DK9008G2 PRO family is?

[Hyde]

Well Duckys are all plate mounted so plate float sounds more likely.

I've heard someone mentioned that there was a rumour that Ducky and Costar didn't get along before so most likely that Ducky will never be using Costar stabilizers ever.  Then again I have no way to confirm that.

But at the moment Ducky sounds like your best bet.  Maybe wait for Ducky Shine III?

[davkol]

Do you actually notice the difference between fake ones and originals? I certainly don't unless something is really messed up (like stabs under the big-ass enter on iRocks keyboards).

[alaricljs]

since most people don't realize that Cherry stabilizers actually come in four flavors.
No. Really. Scroll down.

I've been to this page many times, and it still only describes 2 different styles of stabilizer in the wide variety of sizes they offer... The only one not mentioned here that I've seen in a KB is the old WYSE ones where instead of a split-pin for the PCB hold down on one end, it's a hollow pin and a screw to hold it on.

I've also purchased a odd-ball that is very similar to the WYSE but for some reason the stem part that fits in the keycap is only half as long as usual even though the top end of that is at the same distance from the base as a normal stabilizer stem.

So what is it I'm scrolling down to?

[rootwyrm]

Well Duckys are all plate mounted so plate float sounds more likely.

I've heard someone mentioned that there was a rumour that Ducky and Costar didn't get along before so most likely that Ducky will never be using Costar stabilizers ever.  Then again I have no way to confirm that.

But at the moment Ducky sounds like your best bet.  Maybe wait for Ducky Shine III?

Well, Ducky Shine III doesn't interest me. I hate backlighting TBH. At best I have no interest in it. Mostly I outright hate it though. It serves no purpose for me or extremely limited at best and only if fully programmable. Also, Ducky said Shine III's being unveiled at Computex so tomorrow.

As far as plate vs. PCB: the presence or absence of a plate has nothing to do with it other than adding the option of plate-float or plate-lock. Keycool and I forget which Korean board it was both use plate mount switches but PCB mount stabilizers. The reason being that the plate retention mechanism makes it much harder to manufacture the plate itself. You have to stamp and weld the shelves or something like that. (I don't know how you make them, just that it's more complicated!) PCB mount fits under plate with no alterations and is easier to manufacture - especially at scale.

As to relationships, no idea there, but there's nothing to prevent Ducky from using wire stabilizers. Costar can't even claim exclusivity on those. Not unless they want to try pretending the Model F and M didn't have a spacebar. Forget stuff like this. So really Costar is a misleading name - it's just a wire stabilizer. But since that's what everyone insists on calling them...

Do you actually notice the difference between fake ones and originals? I certainly don't unless something is really messed up (like stabs under the big-ass enter on iRocks keyboards).

Personally, I can 9 out of 10 times. But there's certain aspects of the fakes that make them easy to spot. The advantage of the Cherry stabilizer is that it's vertical AND horizontal stabilization. (Costar/wire is vertical ONLY. The only horizontal stabilization is the key stem itself.) The knockoffs are manufactured to poor tolerances at best and often fit together very poorly. End result is that they tend to grind or walk excessively. Bear in mind that I can also tell the difference between floating and locked from feel and noise alone. (Though not as accurately - depends on build quality.)

To say nothing of unlinked stabilizers. I saw one keyboard which used a free floating stabilizer on the 1.5's, which worked fine. But on anything else? Forget it. Unlinked does not work at all, never has, and never will. It's every bit as awful as you can imagine, causing severe lean constantly.

[IvanIvanovich]

There are 4 that I have seen used. There are some that are on really early 0100 MX boards that were more common on M7-9 era, the type that are PCB mount bolt on, plate mount and the clip in PCB mount.

[rootwyrm]

There are 4 that I have seen used. There are some that are on really early 0100 MX boards that were more common on M7-9 era, the type that are PCB mount bolt on, plate mount and the clip in PCB mount.

Yeah, I didn't mention those because I don't think they're even possible any more. The bolt-through I know required the recessed nut style stabilizer assemblies, which are long out of production. (Unless there's another bolt-through I'm unaware of, which is entirely possible!) There's also the really weird top-of-plate one I saw once, but I don't think that was an actual Cherry stabilizer. The linking bar was actually mounted to the top of the plate, and it had slots cut out to permit downward travel below the plate itself. Very interesting design - I suspect it would feel very nice to type on too, since it would naturally fall instead of resisting depression.

I don't know why anyone would use square through-board clip-in style any more though. Those things were a horrible idea.

[IvanIvanovich]

Those old ones I am talking about are these:

not only does it have a metal wire, but the 2 side stems are one piece linked together with a plastic bar too. They are actually pretty nice but couldn't work well with the cylindrical keycaps we are most used to. They basically cause it to bottom out on the stabilizer on actuation and quite harshly. But the very early MX boards still had the M8 style lower profile sphericals so it wasn't a problem.

Recessed nut? The bolt on PCB mounts I have bolt goes through the bottom of the PCB and threads into the supporting clip. I am using some of these type on my GH60. They also lack the dampener on the bottom of the inserts and are probably the most natural feeling type of Cherry stabilizers I have. Though it could just be they are ultra smooth since they were taken from keyboard about 27 years old I am sure they were well broken in.

Through board clip in style, like costaresque PCB version? I came across some of this once, and they were quite terrible. It wasn't on MX keyboard but something like mei switches maybe.

[Photekq]

This is a bit offtopic but has anyone tried using switches as stabilisers? Like.. Having three switches support a spacebar instead of a switch and 2 stabs.

[IvanIvanovich]

Yes. I did that on an Access IS matrix board to use a 6x Cherry spacebar LOL.  It mostly worked but you still had to be pretty good about hitting it towards the center. If too much to one side it would bind up since the other side wouldn't go down. Really it wasn't all that great but was usable and better than 2x keys with 2 switch under each.

[davkol]

This is a bit offtopic but has anyone tried using switches as stabilisers? Like.. Having three switches support a spacebar instead of a switch and 2 stabs.

I've read at DT that it worked (on a tipro keypad) just fine for someone. I want to try it Soon (TM).

[rootwyrm]

Those old ones I am talking about are these:
not only does it have a metal wire, but the 2 side stems are one piece linked together with a plastic bar too. They are actually pretty nice but couldn't work well with the cylindrical keycaps we are most used to. They basically cause it to bottom out on the stabilizer on actuation and quite harshly. But the very early MX boards still had the M8 style lower profile sphericals so it wasn't a problem.

Oh, INTERESTING. Those, I have not seen. I don't know if they'd count though, since they're M8 rather than MX, truly. They're really nice stabilizers with low profile keycaps, oh gods yes, except for that plastic bar. Remove the plastic bar and yeah you've basically got the early through 1986ish (1987? Later?) PCB mount-clip (5 types! Ha ha ha...)

Recessed nut? The bolt on PCB mounts I have bolt goes through the bottom of the PCB and threads into the supporting clip. I am using some of these type on my GH60. They also lack the dampener on the bottom of the inserts and are probably the most natural feeling type of Cherry stabilizers I have. Though it could just be they are ultra smooth since they were taken from keyboard about 27 years old I am sure they were well broken in.

Proooobably the wrong term for it. Embedded nut? I don't know the right term. The one that had the nut molded into the plastic of the housing though. I've actually never seen straight through bolt-ons, to tell the truth. Didn't think Cherry even made such a thing since the rattle and shake of a keyboard would tend to work a non-embedded nut loose over time, even with threadlocker. Can't remember if it was a Compaq or DEC keyboard I ran into that used the embedded nuts, but they felt incredibly solid and were even more stable than the plate mounts.
The interesting thing about the embedded nut versions I've seen is that they're like the Wyse PC286 ET in that there are multiple lubrication points within the stabilizer itself. Sliding assembly, anchor pivot at wire, and wire retaining clip. Makes them just ridiculously smooth actuating and incredibly stable. Zero walk effect.

Through board clip in style, like costaresque PCB version? I came across some of this once, and they were quite terrible. It wasn't on MX keyboard but something like mei switches maybe.

I wish I could find a picture of them now.. Cherry used to, long ago, offer a through-hole clip-in that's basically the same as the current PCB mounts. But without solder. So instead of the locating pins, you had expansion clips in the same place. The theory of course being that hey, these are easier to install because you just snap them in. Which is not an inaccurate statement. However, yeah, expansion clip style does NOT work so good. They like to break and rattle loose. I've only seen them maybe twice, ever.

But we digress quite a bit, though this would be really, really fantastic stuff to put in the Wiki. (Who wants to create the page? I can't.) Still wondering though, whether the Duckys are PCB under or Plate over for the stabilizing wire.

[dante]

This is a bit offtopic but has anyone tried using switches as stabilisers? Like.. Having three switches support a spacebar instead of a switch and 2 stabs.

I think Ducky used 2 switches to support the enter key on their big ass 1008's.