OK, who here owns a Topre-switch board and prefers MX switches over it?

[fateswarm]

I've been accused of following an abstract hype when I trust the opinion of so many Topre+MX owners that Topre should be better (maybe not for gaming) when I have not done the research first-hand, so here is your chance to prove me wrong. I'm investigating my future options and I find it rare for anyone with at least one Topre to not pick it over others (perhaps with the exception of gaming, and that in some cases). So, who here prefers MX switches over Topre? Well, let's leave gaming out of it, since due to its 'mashing' requirements in some games it does often prefer the gimmick of black or red MX so I guess there's no point using that factor into the sample.

[davkol]

I don't own any Topre keyboard [anymore] (I had borrowed an HHKB). For me, it's layout > switches as long as keys aren't atrocious.

[Aranair]

I prefer my poker with browns(lubed) by a hairline lol. (Unlubed browns are a little behind though)

I find that with Topre, my fingers sometimes hurt a little if I type continuously. I type lightly so I don't think it's an issue of bottoming out. It does not happen when I'm using my browns.

Although, I also love how solid most Topre boards are generally. And unrelated to switches I like the split backspace of the HHKB, so I remapped my poker for that lol.

I don't think I'll ever sell my Topre though, I do miss the feeling/tactility of Topre switches sometimes and I switch between mx and Topre boards(daily).

Edit: I'm basically building a replica of HHKB with all my coming custom keyboards.. (Except with a slightly different function layer)

Sorry if it sounds a little inconclusive lol.

[SpAmRaY]

I can answer this next week, but I know not everyone that has tried topre has given up on MX.

There are some here who dislike it.

Why not read all the topre vs MX threads instead of starting more?

[fateswarm]

I can answer this next week, but I know not everyone that has tried topre has given up on MX.

There are some here who dislike it.

Why not read all the topre vs MX threads instead of starting more?

Because (in other threads) it's always people picking up the Topre over MX in clear majority and then when pointing out that considering many people choosing it are very experienced, it's a good decision to consider it good without trying it, I'm being accused of following trends blindly.

This is a chance for those that would prove me wrong to do it. Are there experienced users of both that prefer MX? And are they enough to be trusted?Because undecided opinions don't do it, or just one or two out of hundreds.

[CPTBadAss]

If you check my signature, I wrote a review on my thoughts on all the switches I've tried so far. I've laid out why I don't like Topre and which MX switches I like. Take a look if you'd like to see my opinion

[fateswarm]

If you check my signature, I wrote a review on my thoughts on all the switches I've tried so far. I've laid out why I don't like Topre and which MX switches I like. Take a look if you'd like to see my opinion

Do you own a topre board?

edit: I can't find the word topre in your wiki list.

[fateswarm]

I prefer my poker with browns(lubed) by a hairline lol. (Unlubed browns are a little behind though)

That's very interesting because I just did the same. I find them so inherently scratchy that any kind of oiling that does not remove the tactility event is an improvement.

Concerning this thread you're a bit undecided so I guess, what we did could still be worse than topre.  )

[CPTBadAss]

If you check my signature, I wrote a review on my thoughts on all the switches I've tried so far. I've laid out why I don't like Topre and which MX switches I like. Take a look if you'd like to see my opinion

Do you own a topre board?

edit: I can't find the word topre in your wiki list.

It's listed under Switch Reviews. I have tried Topre boards and have little interest in owning one.

[vivalarevolución]

If we are going to ask if any owners of Topres prefer other switches over Topre, we need to expand the robustness of the discussion to Alps switch owners.  I know many people on this board prefer Alps over Cherry.  Long live Alps!

[fuzzybaffy]

It's not that it's wrong for people to prefer Cherry switches over Topre. It's just that, some time ago, there were a handful of people, who started off a rash of anti-Topre troll posts (most likely started by t_______).

Saying, "I prefer Cherry switches over Topre" by itself is not trolling.
Saying, "I prefer Cherry switches over Topre" in Topre threads that have absolutely nothing to do with, nor mentions Cherry switches (which is what happened frequently), is trolling.

[jdcarpe]

I prefer MX switches over Topre. And no, I don't own a Topre ANYMORE, since I sold every one I have ever owned. If you are interested in my Topre cred, here are the Topre switch keyboards I have owned:

• HHKB Pro 2 (black)
• HHKB Pro 2 (white)
• HHKB Pro JP
• Realforce 10th Anniversary Edition 87U all-55g

To me at least, the Topre switch mechanism feels like a really smooth, high quality rubber dome. Probably because that is what it is. They call it cup rubber, but it's a rubber dome, and it feels like one. I'm not saying that Topre boards are equivalent to rubber dome over membrane mass-produced keyboards. I am saying that if you don't like the feel of using a rubber dome keyboard (switch mechanism) after using MX switch keyboards, you probably won't prefer Topre.

Switch preference is all about feel, and feel is subjective to each user. For me, I tried Topre, and gave it a real chance. I used an HHKB exclusively for over a month. And it wasn't the layout that turned me off, because I'm about to build some MX-based boards with that exact layout. It was the switch feel. And that is why, when I discovered that Topre wasn't all that special to me, I sold my Topre boards, as I can't justify the high price to just keep them around and not use them.

You can see the boards I currently own in my signature. I think I have a good background for comparison. I like buckling spring, although not as much as I once did. I like Alps. I really like MX, especially reds, browns, clears, and blacks. I'm not a fan of MX blues, greens, or whites. I can use Topre without complaint, but they are overpriced, in my opinion, for what you get. I would rather spend $200 on a nice capacitive buckling spring Model F than on a Topre board.

Some pictures of former Topre boards:

[khaangaaroo]

I started out with a bunch of Cherry boards and sold them all after trying Topre. 30g is definitely my favorite switch.

But since there's no reason to have just one keyboard, I eventually went back and bought some Cherry flavors and some BS keyboards, and things have been much more fun. If I had a choice between owning only Topre, or being able to own the rest of the mechanical keyboard world, I'd pick the Topre-less keyboard world. Good thing no one's making me choose.

Some additional info: I use my Topre daily at work, and the MX/BS boards I rotate at home.

[fateswarm]

jdcarpe (and CPTBadAss), how do you deal with the inherent scratchiness of MX switches? I feel brown is fine in design of the tactile event and force requirements but they are so scratchy that I think any kind of oiling that does not remove the tactile event improves them.

I eventually went back and bought some Cherry flavors and some BS keyboards, and things have been much more fun. If I had a choice between owning only Topre, or being able to own the rest of the mechanical keyboard world, I'd pick the Topre-less keyboard world.

Why? Is it about the switch technology or nostalgia?

[jdcarpe]

jdcarpe (and CPTBadAss), how do you deal with the inherent scratchiness of MX switches? I feel brown is fine in design of the tactile event and force requirements but they are so scratchy that I think any kind of oiling that does not remove the tactile event improves them.

I eventually went back and bought some Cherry flavors and some BS keyboards, and things have been much more fun. If I had a choice between owning only Topre, or being able to own the rest of the mechanical keyboard world, I'd pick the Topre-less keyboard world.

Why? Is it about the switch technology or nostalgia?

That scratchiness feeling usually goes away once the switches are broken-in. Or like you said, you can lube them. Lubing is a shortcut to having nice, broken-in switches in my opinion.

And I would guess that khaangaaroo picked up some MX boards so that he could have fun swapping out new keycap sets on them, etc.

[fateswarm]

broken-in

Broken in to lube them or an orientation period? I doubt the inherent nature of those plastics will ever lose its friction with use alone.

[lazerpointer]

To answer the thread question, yes I sometimes switch to my Cherry browns board because it's the most efficient / accurate for me. My Topre 55g I consider my "comfort" and also "quiet" keyboard. Also sometimes I go with my QFR reds when I'm playing first person shooters.

broken-in

I doubt the inherent nature of those plastics will ever lose its friction with use alone.

It absolutely gets smoother with use. Especially switches with mechanical friction, like the Cherry Browns, but in general, Cherry switches get somewhat smoother with use

[Binge]

I prefer a nice lubed cherry linear switch with a decent spring over topre.

I found this out when I did a blind test of several dome keyboards and a topre.  My brother shuffled them.  My hands couldn't tell the difference.  I wore earmuffs to make sure I couldn't hear the switch.  He put into the mix a cherry switch board that I know I like and BAM!  happy hands~

[khaangaaroo]

jdcarpe (and CPTBadAss), how do you deal with the inherent scratchiness of MX switches? I feel brown is fine in design of the tactile event and force requirements but they are so scratchy that I think any kind of oiling that does not remove the tactile event improves them.

I eventually went back and bought some Cherry flavors and some BS keyboards, and things have been much more fun. If I had a choice between owning only Topre, or being able to own the rest of the mechanical keyboard world, I'd pick the Topre-less keyboard world.

Why? Is it about the switch technology or nostalgia?

That scratchiness feeling usually goes away once the switches are broken-in. Or like you said, you can lube them. Lubing is a shortcut to having nice, broken-in switches in my opinion.

And I would guess that khaangaaroo picked up some MX boards so that he could have fun swapping out new keycap sets on them, etc.

Yeah, mostly for the group buys, and also to lend out boards to friends so they can try the different switch types. But now that I have them all customized to where I want them to be, I just like rotating boards to break up the monotony.

[CPTBadAss]

broken-in

Broken in to lube them or an orientation period? I doubt the inherent nature of those plastics will ever lose its friction with use alone.

Yes they wear, so they will lose friction over time. All things wear. And I prefer clicky switches so I don't feel that the switches I use are scratchy.

[keymaster]

It's important to note that because Topre keyboards tend to be expensive $200+, many who still happen to have one do so because they prefer it over Cherry MX. Otherwise, they would have sold the Topre board because as jdcarpe has pointed out, it is too expensive to keyboard around without it being used.

Topre owners, I imagine, tend to prefer Topre over Cherry MX because it wouldn't really make sense to keep one around otherwise.

[daerid]

I'm kinda feeling that at the moment. My 55g RealForces haven't gotten any use since the FC660C showed up Starting to bother me that I have $500+ in keyboards sitting in boxes behind me.

[WhiteFireDragon]

I prefer MX slightly more than topre, although I'll still keep my FC660C around. With topre boards, you can't really do much to them. Nothing to modify internally, and very little you can do the the switch. With cherries, you can desolder to change them out, swap out springs, stems, lube, sticker. Basically many things you can do to customize the switch feel to how you want. Another big highlight is the customization of keycaps. There are many choices for keycap sets or single novelty caps. Part of the fun is searching for those rare caps, buying them, or the anxious feeling when waiting for a GB. With topre, you have a small selection on EK, and you'll realize there are zero GB's for topre stuff.

For me, topre do feel nice, but I can't get over the fact that I have to bottom out the switch. It just feels too deep for my fingers.

I prefer a nice lubed cherry linear switch with a decent spring over topre.

I found this out when I did a blind test of several dome keyboards and a topre.  My brother shuffled them.  My hands couldn't tell the difference.  I wore earmuffs to make sure I couldn't hear the switch.  He put into the mix a cherry switch board that I know I like and BAM!  happy hands~

How can your fingers not differentiate between a topre switch and a linear MX??

[jwaz]

Topre destroys MX (55g and plate mount 45g especially) and HHKB has the best in production layout. The only MX boards I'm retaining are a deck that feels like a heavy topre because of the splashguard and a kinesis.

[Dubsgalore]

I prefer a nice lubed cherry linear switch with a decent spring over topre.

I found this out when I did a blind test of several dome keyboards and a topre.  My brother shuffled them.  My hands couldn't tell the difference.  I wore earmuffs to make sure I couldn't hear the switch.  He put into the mix a cherry switch board that I know I like and BAM!  happy hands~

How can your fingers not differentiate between a topre switch and a linear MX??

he is saying he did a blind test between RD boards and a Topre, and couldn't tell the difference.
then an mx board was swapped in and...-bam

[fateswarm]

I prefer a nice lubed cherry linear switch with a decent spring over topre.

I found this out when I did a blind test of several dome keyboards and a topre.  My brother shuffled them.  My hands couldn't tell the difference.  I wore earmuffs to make sure I couldn't hear the switch.  He put into the mix a cherry switch board that I know I like and BAM!  happy hands~

That's exceptional information.

Can you tell us what kind of oiling exactly used and what kind of switches?

[Kayliss]

I prefer MX over Topre, my HHKB has sat unused since the day I bought it. Ergo clears > lubed blacks w/62g springs > blues > Topre in that order for me. I mostly play FPS and a few mmo's though, so feel when typing is a lower priority than gaming.

[grips]

jdcarpe has a good point: they are still rubber dome switches and will feel like that to a lot of users. I let my wife try my new Realforce board and she laughed in my face and said, "You paid that much for a regular keyboard?"

Of course, I still feel like they are nice. If I could change anything about them, I think it would be that I wish they had a stronger rebound while maintaining the same actuation force.

I prefer MX over Topre, my HHKB has sat unused since the day I bought it. Ergo clears > lubed blacks w/62g springs > blues > Topre in that order for me. I mostly play FPS and a few mmo's though, so feel when typing is a lower priority than gaming.

For those that have used ergo clears and Topre switches, do you think they are kind of similar in some ways? I've never used ergo clears, but speculatively, they seem like they would have a similar feel to me (I've used regular clears). If that's the case, they may provide the stronger rebound I'd like, along with the similar actuation feel.

[CommunistWitchDr]

Topre destroys MX (55g and plate mount 45g especially) and HHKB has the best in production layout. The only MX boards I'm retaining are a deck that feels like a heavy topre because of the splashguard and a kinesis.

I like the size, but not all of the fn layer, and not the ctrl (should be backspace)
The best layout will always be a fully programmable one, and the day topre makes one is the day I try a topre.

[aggiejy]

I've had both for about 2 years now. I've gone through phases where I thought each is best. Right now I'm on the Topre kick. But it's much more fun to have MX boards you can customize. :-)

[ShivaYash]

I am on the fence about this one. I have my first Topre board, and its nice but the layout is a little annoying. I LOVE LOVE LOVE Cherry Browns, they aren't scratchy, so long as you use them. And with o-rings, they feel great. I am keen to try BLUES but really its only a difference of sounds, the feeling will be the same.

I think TOPRE is over rated, being hailed as a magically board that will bring you happiness. Its about joining an elite club, given the high entry point. This same hype would not exist if the boards were cheaper to own.

Search for my other posts, you'll see my opinions being fairly strongly voiced about this same topic.

Again, it amazes me how many people buy-in to this hype, without having owned the board. I think companies like KBC are going to give TOPRE and HHKB a run for their money, soon. Once the TOPRE switch becomes more mainstream, the hype will reduce.

Cherry offers more variety in terms of switches and club membership to a much wider array of custom keycaps, o-rings, etc. Even LEDs if that is your bag.

Good luck... try the boards you are keen on, don't follow the word of others. A KB is a like underwear. Its very personal thing and generally speaking, you have to buy it yourself. Although once you have found a brand you like, your wife can most likely get it for you. I like BONDS of Australia, FYI.

[fuzzybaffy]

Really? Cause, I own a Topre board, and have owned other Cherry boards (Filco, CM), and I definitely think the Topre is worth the asking price. If I had the cash, I'd have no problem shelling out some more for another one.

Despite the fact that it has rubber, I think the build quality of Topre boards make it worth it (though, I've never owned an HHKB Pro, so maybe things are different with HHKB Pros). I just think the build quality of Topre boards, and switches are absolutely spectacular.

[fuzzybaffy]

Again, not trying to say people can't like Cherry MX switches over Topre. I can definitely see how, subjectively, people just can personally like Cherry switches more.

But sweeping statements, like "liking Topre is pure hype", is a little unfair, IMO. In terms of value, I think the build quality of Topre keyboards/switches absolutely make them worth it.

But, again, just because I think so, doesn't mean I think people should always and only like Topre. Even though I think the build quality of Topre boards make it worth their asking price, I can still see how others might like Cherry switches.

[esoomenona]

Things that cost more or demand a higher price are usually of higher quality or components, lest no one would pay that price, and that company would fail. If another company managed to deliver a Topre board for much cheaper, it would either be at a cost to their profit (and potentially a loss) or at a cost to you in cheaper quality and/or components. Thus, it is not the same thing. I don't understand how some people can be so foolish.

And even if some other company managed to put out an entry level Topre board, just as some cheap people would accept it because its cheaper, others would notice the possibility that a higher quality board might merit more of their money. Why do you think there is so much complaint of boards like iOne or Chinese knock-off switches? Do those items reduce your hype about MX switches/boards?

[ShivaYash]

But sweeping statements, like "liking Topre is pure hype", is a little unfair, IMO. In terms of value, I think the build quality of Topre keyboards/switches absolutely make them worth it.

Fair enough, but as Topre switches are only used by relatively fewer manufacturers, compared to the Cherry variants, the hype factor should be accounted for. And if you read my post, and others I have written recently, many people seem to endorse Topre as being the 'best' without actually trying them. This, to me, is hype, surely.

It is a well known phenomena, price (should) equate to better quality, but as we all know, this is not the case. Most people choose wine in restaurants on this basis!

I purchased a relatively cheap CHERRY board via a group buy; its a plate model and 60% in size.

Those in the 'other place', DT; appear to be, in my interpretation, anti 'cheaper' boards. Only expensive boards can be 'good'. I couldn't disagree more and going back to my initial point, often I feel Topre boards, being more expensive, are deemed 'better by default'.

Yes the build quality is good but the HHKB isn't running a monopoly in this... there are lots of other boards out there offering excellent quality, for less than half the price. But these won't have Topre switches.

Hope this makes sense.

[lazerpointer]

Or you can change keyboards based on GH threads. Like, this one has made me switch back to my Topre for the time being

lol

[ShivaYash]

Things that cost more or demand a higher price are usually of higher quality or components...

This is not always true. Just look at monoprice headphones, on wirecutter.com. I have them, they are truly excellent and cost less than $10.

[grips]

Personally, I didn't even know there was so much 'hype' about Topre boards. I simply came here to see all of my options and after looking at the designs and few reviews of how they feel, I decided to try one. I couldn't tell that Topre was hyped in any way over Cherry MX boards.

In fact, it took me a while to get to thinking about Topre boards because most of what I read was more DIY stuff related to MX switch-based boards.

To me, all of these switches are quite nice and debating which is the best for my own personal use is mostly just nitpicking small things. I enjoy all my boards, but it comes down to which one do I gravitate more towards, and right now it's the Topre board.

[esoomenona]

Things that cost more or demand a higher price are usually of higher quality or components...

This is not always true. Just look at monoprice headphones, on wirecutter.com. I have them, they are truly excellent and cost less than $10.

Plzlrn2reading

Anyway, it just seems you're a person willing to accept a certain level of quality for a certain price range, and anything exceeding that isn't worth it TO YOU. You can't automatically dismiss everything else based solely on your opinions.

[ShivaYash]

Things that cost more or demand a higher price are usually of higher quality or components...

This is not always true. Just look at monoprice headphones, on wirecutter.com. I have them, they are truly excellent and cost less than $10.

Plzlrn2reading

Anyway, it just seems you're a person willing to accept a certain level of quality for a certain price range, and anything exceeding that isn't worth it TO YOU. You can't automatically dismiss everything else based solely on your opinions.

I have the HHKB...!

[fuzzybaffy]

But sweeping statements, like "liking Topre is pure hype", is a little unfair, IMO. In terms of value, I think the build quality of Topre keyboards/switches absolutely make them worth it.

Fair enough, but as Topre switches are only used by relatively fewer manufacturers, compared to the Cherry variants, the hype factor should be accounted for. And if you read my post, and others I have written recently, many people seem to endorse Topre as being the 'best' without actually trying them. This, to me, is hype, surely.

It is a well known phenomena, price (should) equate to better quality, but as we all know, this is not the case. Most people choose wine in restaurants on this basis!

I purchased a relatively cheap CHERRY board via a group buy; its a plate model and 60% in size.

Those in the 'other place', DT; appear to be, in my interpretation, anti 'cheaper' boards. Only expensive boards can be 'good'. I couldn't disagree more and going back to my initial point, often I feel Topre boards, being more expensive, are deemed 'better by default'.

Yes the build quality is good but the HHKB isn't running a monopoly in this... there are lots of other boards out there offering excellent quality, for less than half the price. But these won't have Topre switches.

Hope this makes sense.

I get what you're saying... but I can't help but feel that you're intentionally leaving out information to convey your opinions. Like, when you say:

Yes the build quality is good but the HHKB isn't running a monopoly in this... there are lots of other boards out there offering excellent quality, for less than half the price. But these won't have Topre switches.

Yes, you can get decent quality keyboards for much cheaper, but... the HHKB Pro is still better than those keyboards in terms of quality, no?

In terms of build quality, (I'm talking strictly build quality here, so it doesn't matter whether Topre switches have rubber or not), I have no problem saying that Topre switches are around 2.0x the quality of Cherry switches. They are super solid, and super smooth. Maybe I'm being a bit liberal with the "2.0x" qualification, but... Topre switches, in terms of quality, are indeed significantly better than Cherry switches. There is no doubt about that.

Also, when you say:

Fair enough, but as Topre switches are only used by relatively fewer manufacturers, compared to the Cherry variants, the hype factor should be accounted for. And if you read my post, and others I have written recently, many people seem to endorse Topre as being the 'best' without actually trying them. This, to me, is hype, surely.

Have there really been people who say "Topre is the best" without owning one? I personally haven't seen them, and I don't know why it would be in anyone's agenda to do so, either. I have seen comments the other way around, though, where people say "Topre is overpriced" without having owned a Topre.

And even if there is hype, hype isn't always a bad thing. Hype without substance is a bad thing, but sometimes hype is well justified.

Also, I think esoomenona made a great point:

Things that cost more or demand a higher price are usually of higher quality or components...

This is not always true. Just look at monoprice headphones, on wirecutter.com. I have them, they are truly excellent and cost less than $10.

Plzlrn2reading

Anyway, it just seems you're a person willing to accept a certain level of quality for a certain price range, and anything exceeding that isn't worth it TO YOU. You can't automatically dismiss everything else based solely on your opinions.

Yes, you got your monoprice headphones for $10, but... just because you did, doesn't mean all other headphones in existence that are more expensive should cost $10. I mean... yes, you got a great deal on your headphones, but you can't expect everything else to cost the same. There are headphones that cost more, from the hundreds, to even the thousands, and they are priced according to the quality that they're built (which is what esoomenona just wrote).

In the same vein, it seems like because there are cheaper keyboards out there, you think Topre boards should be priced the same. But, again... they are more expensive for the same reason expensive headphones are expensive, or expensive cars are expensive. 

Again, I'm not saying people shouldn't or can't like Cherry boards over Topre boards. I'm just saying, let's not spread misinformation about Topre boards.

[CommunistWitchDr]

Things that cost more or demand a higher price are usually of higher quality or components...

This is not always true. Just look at monoprice headphones, on wirecutter.com. I have them, they are truly excellent and cost less than $10.

Plzlrn2reading

Anyway, it just seems you're a person willing to accept a certain level of quality for a certain price range, and anything exceeding that isn't worth it TO YOU. You can't automatically dismiss everything else based solely on your opinions.

Many consider monoprice headphones BETTER than higher price competitors before the 100 mark.
There are more ways than lower quality to reduce price. Lower profit as you mentioned, less money on marketing/packaging/etc, larger bulk quantities, cheaper but better materials (aluminum for example is way cheaper than gold, but better for most anything structural), manufacturing processes, and a lot more. I'm not saying that topre isn't worth it, but I am saying it's plausible a company could buy the switches and make higher quality topre boards for less.

[digi]

Owned numerous MX boards, Blues, Browns, Blacks, Reds. Once I made a switch to Topre 45g, I don't have any desire to try a MX based board again.

The key press is very fluid for me on a Topre. The only MX switch I have any desire to try would be Ergo Clears and I wouldn't sell my Topre 45g for it.

[fuzzybaffy]

Things that cost more or demand a higher price are usually of higher quality or components...

This is not always true. Just look at monoprice headphones, on wirecutter.com. I have them, they are truly excellent and cost less than $10.

Plzlrn2reading

Anyway, it just seems you're a person willing to accept a certain level of quality for a certain price range, and anything exceeding that isn't worth it TO YOU. You can't automatically dismiss everything else based solely on your opinions.

Many consider monoprice headphones BETTER than higher price competitors before the 100 mark.
There are more ways than lower quality to reduce price. Lower profit as you mentioned, less money on marketing/packaging/etc, larger bulk quantities, cheaper but better materials (aluminum for example is way cheaper than gold, but better for most anything structural), manufacturing processes, and a lot more. I'm not saying that topre isn't worth it, but I am saying it's plausible a company could buy the switches and make higher quality topre boards for less.

Yea... it's true. But if you do that, you have to hold all the other keyboard manufacturers that sell cheaper keyboards to the same standards. Because you need an even playing field if you want to make comparisons.

But, the fact of the matter is, we don't know any of those things you just mentioned (how much money is spent on packaging, marketing, distribution, etc.) for any keyboard manufacturer. It's all conjecture at this point. This includes "Topre is overpriced" statements.

[CommunistWitchDr]

In terms of build quality, (I'm talking strictly build quality here, so it doesn't matter whether Topre switches have rubber or not), I have no problem saying that Topre switches are around 2.0x the quality of Cherry switches. They are super solid, and super smooth. Maybe I'm being a bit liberal with the "2.0x" qualification, but... Topre switches, in terms of quality, are indeed significantly better than Cherry switches. There is no doubt about that.

Build quality has many aspects. Not all of which have topre as a victor, in durability (linear) cherry is better, rated at 50mill keypresses per switch. If I recall topre is rated for fewer. Hall destroys both of them.

Now in terms of smoothness topre beats cherry. How far that goes for overall feel is subjective, but smoothness can be measured.

[AKIMbO]

Build quality has many aspects. Not all of which have topre as a victor, in durability (linear) cherry is better, rated at 50mill keypresses per switch. If I recall topre is rated for fewer. Hall destroys both of them.
Now in terms of smoothness topre beats cherry. How far that goes for overall feel is subjective, but smoothness can be measured.

I believe it was misallaire who linked an article on the new Type Heaven topre board in which it's stated that Topre is increasing the life cycle rating of its switches from 30 mill to 50mill keypresses. 

[CommunistWitchDr]

Things that cost more or demand a higher price are usually of higher quality or components...

This is not always true. Just look at monoprice headphones, on wirecutter.com. I have them, they are truly excellent and cost less than $10.

Plzlrn2reading

Anyway, it just seems you're a person willing to accept a certain level of quality for a certain price range, and anything exceeding that isn't worth it TO YOU. You can't automatically dismiss everything else based solely on your opinions.

Many consider monoprice headphones BETTER than higher price competitors before the 100 mark.
There are more ways than lower quality to reduce price. Lower profit as you mentioned, less money on marketing/packaging/etc, larger bulk quantities, cheaper but better materials (aluminum for example is way cheaper than gold, but better for most anything structural), manufacturing processes, and a lot more. I'm not saying that topre isn't worth it, but I am saying it's plausible a company could buy the switches and make higher quality topre boards for less.

Yea... it's true. But if you do that, you have to hold all the other keyboard manufacturers that sell cheaper keyboards to the same standards. Because you need an even playing field if you want to make comparisons.

But, the fact of the matter is, we don't know any of those things you just mentioned (how much money is spent on packaging, marketing, distribution, etc.) for any keyboard manufacturer. It's all conjecture at this point. This includes "Topre is overpriced" statements.

They would have to produce tons and cut profit to near, or at, zero. It's not that topre is charging an unfair price, just a response to the "a cheaper topre board has to mean lower quality in some way" argument.

[fuzzybaffy]

Eh. I know about the differences between Topre and Cherry switch life-times, but that is, as you say, just one aspect of quality. Cashmere is a much higher quality than nylon, yet it's prone to damage. Topre's are rated shorter because of the rubber.

[AKIMbO]

Eh. I know about the differences between Topre and Cherry switch life-times, but that is, as you say, just one aspect of quality. Cashmere is a much higher quality than nylon, yet it's prone to damage. Topre's are rated shorter because of the rubber.

You guys are retarded.  Look up the Asia CNET review of the Type Heaven. 30mill was a conservative estimate by Topre.  They are revising upward to 50 million. 

Quit rustling my jimmies!

[jwaz]

Topre destroys MX (55g and plate mount 45g especially) and HHKB has the best in production layout. The only MX boards I'm retaining are a deck that feels like a heavy topre because of the splashguard and a kinesis.

I like the size, but not all of the fn layer, and not the ctrl (should be backspace)
The best layout will always be a fully programmable one, and the day topre makes one is the day I try a topre.

I'd have to agree, keep in mind that the fn layer was an invention by PFU and not Wada when he designed the layout. HHKB should be programmable for the price, a working USB hub would be nice too