trackballs and parkinson's disease

[typo]

I used to love trackballs and I still do. I recently revisited them to find they are now unusable for me. my hand and fingers shake so much I am just wobbling the ball all over. I can't point it where I want without a lot of hassle. I was wondering if there is some way I can steady my hand to be able to use them? I like the m570 but my thumb is out of control with it. I can use a mouse and type because resting my wrists while using downward pressure greatly lessons the shaking. I really want to use a trackball. I hope someone has an idea how I can.

[noisyturtle]

There is someone at my school with Parkinson's, although it is in the early stages and he uses an extremely wide and low mouse. He also has this wrist contraption the he clips onto the edge of the desk and wraps around his forearm that sort of steadies his hand a bit. I am unsure what brand mouse it is, but next time I see him I'll ask him about trackballs for you. He is a surprisingly fast and accurate typist as well.

[typo]

thank you. as you can see I cannot type so good anymore. I do good enough with that though. I have trouble with the modifiers. I use a Logitech g500s with not too much problem. I can press down on it so that steadies it. plus it has weights. from what you said I am thinking I might be better with a flatter basic mouse. I just wish I could still use a trackball but it is probably just not going to work anymore. mine is advanced but really little has changed for me. I just cannot solder anymore. I have been on this forum for a while and did not really want to mention this. I figured where else is a better place to ask though.

[davkol]

There are some huge trackballs made specifically for people with such health issues.

[typo]

come to think about it I have heard of those before. it was in reference to paraplegic's. I bet it could work for tremor. due to the inertia. I actually just found a bunch. for individuals with motor disabilities. there seem to be other devices as well. some stores sell Kensington for this purpose but that is not heavy enough.

[davkol]

some stores sell Kensington for this purpose but that is not heavy enough.

You could always mount it (some keyboard tray, such as the one made by kurplop for his ErgoDox).

[connection]

I can't really imagine how you're feeling right now. It must be terrible to not be able to fully control your body any longer. How heavy trackball would you think you need, and how heavy were those Kensingtons? The ball from my old Kensington Turbo Mouse weighs 120 grams (4.2 oz), and that model should work for at least early stages of Parkinson's. It might also be possible to take one of those older (non-optical) trackballs, and order a size-cut marble to replace with.

[ping111]

I'm so sorry for your condition, and I offer my deepest condolences

As well, I've actually been working on developing a fully-functional (laser, unfortunately) mouse for people with Parkinson's and grip-related conditions.  Essentially, it's a fairly thin glove that can be donned normally, with all the parts of a high-end mouse built in.  The sensitivity can be adjusted, and it takes intentional effort to click.  I'll let you know as development continues.

[typo]

thank you for your concern guys. I really appreciate it.  I feel lucky though. there are just a few things I have found I cannot do. incredibly I may have found the answer myself today. a store in the mall sells a marble pool cue ball. will that fit in the slimblade and will the sensor work? if not I count myself also lucky I can still use this mouse pretty good. ping, that is really commendable you are doing something to help people.

[vun]

thank you for your concern guys. I really appreciate it.  I feel lucky though. there are just a few things I have found I cannot do. incredibly I may have found the answer myself today. a store in the mall sells a marble pool cue ball. will that fit in the slimblade and will the sensor work? if not I count myself also lucky I can still use this mouse pretty good. ping, that is really commendable you are doing something to help people.

AFAIK a pool ball won't fit in the slimblade, but the CST L-Trac ones should take pool balls.
If you have a Slimblade and want a replacement ball then you're pretty much screwed, so far I haven't seen any easily available balls that fit the Slimblade.

[typo]

I am kind of guessing that the l-trac or any other has trouble reading a marble ball. I think my problem is not solved by the size of the ball but the weight. I need something that does not move so easily. or perhaps there is a way to make one of these not register so easily. it is not really a matter of the dpi. I need to be able to have some play in it without registering.

vun, now you know why I am not gaming lol.

[SmallFry]

I am unsure if there is such a utility, but they make everything these days. Perhaps if your shakes are to a certain "magnitude" there may be a software correction utility. I have not searched yet however.

[vun]

I am kind of guessing that the l-trac or any other has trouble reading a marble ball. I think my problem is not solved by the size of the ball but the weight. I need something that does not move so easily. or perhaps there is a way to make one of these not register so easily. it is not really a matter of the dpi. I need to be able to have some play in it without registering.

vun, now you know why I am not gaming lol.

From what I've seen the L-Trac works with a wide range of balls, from regular pool balls to some weird clear acrylic ones and whatnot. Sadly most of this info was lost after all of ripster's stuff disappeared from GH.
I don't think trackballs would have issue tracking with stone balls, if I'm not mistaken a member of either DT or GH, can't remember off the top of my head, managed to luck out and get a polished stone ball that worked ok with his Slimblade. Only problem was that it wasn't even, so while the tracking worked fine the mechanical movement was janky.

[typo]

there is a used l-trac I can get tomorrow. the l-trac is only $40 but the stone ball is $80. no problem though. I do wonder about software. I think I will contact one of the places that specialize in adaptive input devices. I don't know why I am begging for a trackball when I can use a mouse. I just used trackballs before and really liked them. I was not looking for the trackball as a solution but just because I like them better. btw, this ball is considered flawless that is why it is $80. they have really crummy ones as low as $5. so if it registers it should work fine as far as the movement. the reason I have a problem is because like the slimblade or especially the Logitech they move if you breath on them. well almost. if I can press down I hardly shake but that moves the ball. not a mouse though.

btw, ripsters info of all sorts was valuable to me. what happened to it?

[SmallFry]

Ripster's content was purged during the R00TW0RM.

[The_Ed]

Ripster's content was purged during the R00TW0RM.

No it wasn't... It was deleted by the Admin's AFTER GH came back...

I think I have a solution for you - NSI laser trackball modules have an optional PTFE seal option. That makes it waterproof, but also has a welcomed side effect of increasing the resistance to movement.
I would recommend an X50 module for you -> http://www.nsi-be.com/website/nsi/assets/files/tmp/datasheets/x50_laser_trackball.pdf
There are inputs for 3 buttons, and you could mount everything into your desk.

[typo]

wow, that looks great. thanks! I would not mount it to a very nice desk though. however there is a tray under the desk that is plenty big. I could just route it out. i guess i will find out if i can use the router anymore lol. come to think of it i played an arcade game recently that had a big heavy ball. i did pretty good. i mean i lost the game like i always do but i controlled it alright. it is a bowling game.

[The_Ed]

wow, that looks great. thanks! I would not mount it to a very nice desk though. however there is a tray under the desk that is plenty big. I could just route it out. i guess i will find out if i can use the router anymore lol. come to think of it i played an arcade game recently that had a big heavy ball. i did pretty good. i mean i lost the game like i always do but i controlled it alright. it is a bowling game.

You should prepare your wallet. NSI trackballs are INDUSTRIAL trackballs, and thus demand a premium price. An X50 module will likely set you back ~€140.

I was looking into them a while ago, but I don't have that much spare cash laying around to get one for myself.

[sameer.wahid]

I have trouble with the modifiers.

Hi typo,

Not related to your trackball question, but with respect to modifiers - have you considered using a foot switch?
One example is this: http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/fs-savant-elite.htm

You could map shift, alt, ctrl to the foot switches as a workaround.

As for trackballs I have tried one of the CST trackballs, which I found did not work with my Mac, and I currently use a Slimblade. The Slimblade ball perhaps requires less force to move.

A 'different' option would be the rollermouse (http://ergo.contour-design.com/). I have only seen them used by colleagues, and I have no idea if it would be better or worse with tremor.

A third option would be to use software as smallfry suggests. http://www.steadymouse.com/ is one example.

Best of luck with your search - I hope you find something that meets your needs!

[davkol]

A 'different' option would be the rollermouse (http://ergo.contour-design.com/). I have only seen them used by colleagues, and I have no idea if it would be better or worse with tremor.

Worse, much worse. At least the older generation suffers from lots of "vertical" jitter, which makes it pretty hard to do precise movements.

[typo]

thank you guys.  I really appreciate your help.

[kurplop]

wow, that looks great. thanks! I would not mount it to a very nice desk though. however there is a tray under the desk that is plenty big. I could just route it out. i guess i will find out if i can use the router anymore lol. come to think of it i played an arcade game recently that had a big heavy ball. i did pretty good. i mean i lost the game like i always do but i controlled it alright. it is a bowling game.

If you mount a trackball in a tray, you might consider sloping it too. The best trackball position I've found is when it's sloped in a tray. See first photos here:
http://flic.kr/s/aHsjFazJhh
I have thickly padded armrests on my chair which anchor my arm to better control the trackball and depending on if my hands are numb, stiff or in pain, I can adjust my technique to allow me to work in the most comfort. At times I palm the ball and move my whole chair, normally I use fingertips, but the option is there. I wish you the best.

[The_Ed]

My god... That's... Beautiful...

I can only make functionality mods, which means they're usually not very pretty to look at...

[typo]

that is a work of art. many years ago I could do work like that but no chance anymore. guys I know this is off topic in my own thread....but would you rather have that or a topre for a gift? lol!

I am guessing that big trackball will work fine. since I got a few strikes on the bowling game. the slimblade and especially the m570 have little resistance.

I have an idea though if anyone could make a suggestion. I do like the m570. is there a way I could put something thin in the cavity to add resistance?

[Glod]

i really feel for you.

i suffer from tremors, i think some would call it "essential tremor" which could be caused by medication. I doubt it even compares to Parkinson's (some do compare it though if its really bad) but it does suck when i solder or try to take pictures. I dont even remember what it is like to have steady hands. however i dont seem to have a problem using my slimblade.

i hope you find a solution with the trackball. i think if you wanted to add resistance to a trackball you would need to do it from the top down meaning you would need a trackball like the CST Ltrac where it is covered at the top and ball doesnt come out like the slimblade.

Also I think kurplop may be onto something where  the trackball is sloped like that; i think i'm gonna figure out a way to do that with my slimblade.

[typo]

thank you glod. this disease is really weird. like I think I can certainly do something even though I am shaking. then I blow it like soldering. I am sorry you have a tremor as well.

[bjornr]

Hi,

May I ask, is your verdict based on actual experience with rollermouse?

As far as I know, a rollermouse offers the user the choice to use as many fingers and hands as they prefer/need to get control of the cursor movement.

It is also possible to dampen and vary the sensitivity of a rollermouse by simply allowing a finger or two (or another part of the hand) from the un-used hand to rest gently/passively on the rollerbar rubber surface to create friction > thus functioning like stabilizer against involuntary small movements.

Maybe this doesn't work in all cases. But even if it only helps a few...

Cheers,
Bjorn

A 'different' option would be the rollermouse (http://ergo.contour-design.com/). I have only seen them used by colleagues, and I have no idea if it would be better or worse with tremor.

Worse, much worse. At least the older generation suffers from lots of "vertical" jitter, which makes it pretty hard to do precise movements.

[davkol]

Yes, it is. I have the Rollermouse Pro 1.2.