Was this a good price?

[Bodibo]

I was watching this keyboard on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=280276681749) and was wondering if it went for a good price?

I didn't bid on it because I have just got a G80-3000 with Cherry blues, so I couldn't afford it.

P.S. The Cherry blues are niiiiiiiice

[itlnstln]

I would say no, unless UK versions typically sell for more.  It is a used 'board that was simply cleaned.  Also, it is from 1998, and, therefore, a Lexmark kb, so there is some IBM quality, if not mystique, lost.  Lastly, it is not one of the more unique form factors; it is the standard model.  I would say this would be worth closer to 25 to 30 UK Pounds.  That, and the 7.50 Pounds to ship sucks.  I paid about $65 for each of my M's (about 35-40 Pounds), and they are 1991 original IBM Ms from ClickyKeyboards.com.  I still think it may have been a little too much, but they have great quality and service.  Plus, they do an excellent job refurbing the kbs.  I still paid less (after the exchange rate) than this kb.

[itlnstln]

Also, you can get a brand new one from Unicomp for about the same price or less.

[itlnstln]

I just looked at the pictures again and notice this was made by IBM, not Lexmark, which is odd since most Ms after 1994 (I think) were made by Lexmark and, later, Unicomp.  Since this is the case, I would say the price might be a little better, but still too high.

[Chloe]

They don't come up as often on Ebay UK and I think the price reflects that. When you add in how much it would cost to ship one from the US it doesn't seem so unreasonable, plus this one was UK layout.

[CaptCarrot]

I was watching that one, and as soon as it went over 30 I gave up.

As far as layout is concerned, with replaceable keycaps it should be very cheap to remedy..  If I am right, there are only 4 keys that NEED to be replaced for a UK layout.

uk `¬¦ us `~
uk 2" us 2@
uk 3£ us 3#
uk '@ us '"

the only other major difference is the position of \| (uk, by [left shift], us, above [enter]) and the shape of the enter key (for this I generally prefer the [shift] sized key over the L shape or 2 row key)

[wellington1869]

What on earth is "¬" used for?!

Crazy british people.  

[CaptCarrot]

:¬)

[xyzzy]

As far as layout is concerned, with replaceable keycaps it should be very cheap to remedy..  If I am right, there are only 4 keys that NEED to be replaced for a UK layout.

uk `¬¦ us `~
uk 2" us 2@
uk 3£ us 3#
uk '@ us '"

the only other major difference is the position of \| (uk, by [left shift], us, above [enter]) and the shape of the enter key (for this I generally prefer the [shift] sized key over the L shape or 2 row key)

As british layout keyboards (like all other europeans) have 102 keys vs 101 in the US layout, there's always one key that you cannot replace (unless you use some software like autohotkey to reprogram the missing characters).

In the case of the UK keyboard it's the ~# key near the [return].

[wellington1869]

:~)  

[CaptCarrot]

As british layout keyboards (like all other europeans) have 102 keys vs 101 in the US layout, there's always one key that you cannot replace (unless you use some software like autohotkey to reprogram the missing characters).

In the case of the UK keyboard it's the ~# key near the [return].

bugger - forgot about that

[Bodibo]

I would say no, unless UK versions typically sell for more.  It is a used 'board that was simply cleaned.  Also, it is from 1998, and, therefore, a Lexmark kb, so there is some IBM quality, if not mystique, lost.  Lastly, it is not one of the more unique form factors; it is the standard model.  I would say this would be worth closer to 25 to 30 UK Pounds.  That, and the 7.50 Pounds to ship sucks.  I paid about $65 for each of my M's (about 35-40 Pounds), and they are 1991 original IBM Ms from ClickyKeyboards.com.  I still think it may have been a little too much, but they have great quality and service.  Plus, they do an excellent job refurbing the kbs.  I still paid less (after the exchange rate) than this kb.

I don't know how much Clickykeyboard sold their UK model M's for, but the Spanish ones on at the minute are going for $95. If the UK ones go for the same, then price would be higher than the ebay one when you include shipping.

I think Unicomp one worked out to be about £70, including shipping to the UK.

Like Chloe said, I guess the rarity of uk ones appearing on ebay has probably added to the price; but it's nice to know what other people have paid for theirs.

[lowpoly]

I got one for Euro 1,- some time ago. It was misplaced/mislabeled. Sometimes people just name the auction 'keyboard' and put it in a not so popular section like 'vintage computing/other'.

It takes time to find these though.

Standard price is 20 to 35 Euros here.

[DMuk]

...I have just got a G80-3000 with Cherry blues, so I couldn't afford it.

P.S. The Cherry blues are niiiiiiiice

I'm thinking of getting one of those bodibo. £50 well spent you reckon?

[itlnstln]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negation

Apparently, that is what "¬" is.  If that is the case, why don't US keyboards have this as a key.  Then again, I didn't know what the symbol was in the first place, so what would I do with the key, anyway...

:¬)

[Bodibo]

I'm thinking of getting one of those bodibo. £50 well spent you reckon?

Definitely. I was a bit hesitant because of the expense, but I love using it already, after only one day. The key press is soft, but you get the tactile feedback and click of the switch. I was surprised by how easy it is to type on because I assumed that a loud/clicky keyboard meant having stiff key switches, and thus key press, which required more pressure, but this keyboard doesn't. In fact, it requires less pressure than my old Cherry G15 scissor switch keyboard. The keyboard is loud and I wasn't sure if I was going to like that or not, but I do. The keyboard is also weighty and has good rubber feet that don't slip.

This is my fist mechanical switch keyboard, and you can do all the reading (and listening and watching) in the world, but at some point you just have to buy one to experience it first hand. I am just glad I got this one - it's a good starting/reference point. (Also, you are limited to what you can get in the UK, too).

[Ulysses31]

I'd like to know where you found this for just £50.  Cheapest i've seen is £60.  I was thinking of getting this myself but was put off by the potential noise.  I could always return it within a week if I don't like it I suppose.

[itlnstln]

Bodibo:

I think you would also like an Alps-based board.  Compared to my Model Ms, it is much lighter, and has a very satisfying tactile feel and click.  There does seem to be; however, a little more noise than Buckling Springs, but that might just be from the materials my Northgate is made from (mostly steel).  You can get an Alps-based Macally for around $10 (about 6 UK Pounds) from ebay.  You might need an ADB to USB adapter, though.

[DMuk]

I'd like to know where you found this for just £50.  Cheapest i've seen is £60.  I was thinking of getting this myself but was put off by the potential noise.  I could always return it within a week if I don't like it I suppose.

here not in black sadly.

[CaptCarrot]

or here for £43.79 inc VAT (£37.27 exc).  Again, not in black

[Bodibo]

I'd like to know where you found this for just £50.  Cheapest i've seen is £60.  I was thinking of getting this myself but was put off by the potential noise.  I could always return it within a week if I don't like it I suppose.

I actually got mine from here (http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=510), in black, and it was £70 inc. VAT and delivery (which was next day).

Bodibo:

I think you would also like an Alps-based board.  Compared to my Model Ms, it is much lighter, and has a very satisfying tactile feel and click.  There does seem to be; however, a little more noise than Buckling Springs, but that might just be from the materials my Northgate is made from (mostly steel).  You can get an Alps-based Macally for around $10 (about 6 UK Pounds) from ebay.  You might need an ADB to USB adapter, though.

Thanks for the tip. I might try and get one to test.

[D-EJ915]

As british layout keyboards (like all other europeans) have 102 keys vs 101 in the US layout, there's always one key that you cannot replace (unless you use some software like autohotkey to reprogram the missing characters).

In the case of the UK keyboard it's the ~# key near the [return].

hmm that key should be the pipe/backslash key, the bad key is the one over on the left shift...has no equivalent on a 104


¬ is used for logic...

[Chloe]

The seller has another one for sale, also made in 1998.

[Bodibo]

The seller has another one for sale, also made in 1998.

It was the same one, just re-posted. It went for £79.50, inc. p&p, yesterday. Ouch!

[Chloe]

I don't think it was the same one, this one had a different serial number to the one CaptCarrot saved from the first auction.

[wellington1869]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negation
 
Apparently, that is what "¬" is. If that is the case, why don't US keyboards have this as a key. Then again, I didn't know what the symbol was in the first place, so what would I do with the key, anyway...
 
:¬)

I went through four years of comp sci classes in my undergrad and never once ever saw that symbol before! :~)
I think we sometimes used tilda for negation, more often it was the ! key.
 
:!)

[wellington1869]

Definitely. I was a bit hesitant because of the expense, but I love using it already, after only one day. The key press is soft, but you get the tactile feedback and click of the switch. I was surprised by how easy it is to type on because I assumed that a loud/clicky keyboard meant having stiff key switches, and thus key press, which required more pressure, but this keyboard doesn't.

I'm still amazed no one has put out a keyboard with built in speakers and separately generated audio click. That way you could add an on/off switch, volume control, and even customized click sounds (you could choose whether to hear buckling spring sounds, blue cherry sounds, old style keyboard clacks, ibm selectric sounds...). Or turn it off altogether, or adjust its volume for a crowded office etc.
 
This would also solve another problem with clickys, which is that sometimes on older ones, not all the keys click equally loudly. This throws me off sometimes. I generally love clicky keyboards but it sometimes bugs me when all the keys arent equally loud.  Because while typing fast you start to depend on audio feedback instintively and then when you dont quite hear it on a key it disrupts my rhythm.
 
A built-in speaker would solve everything, basically. It could still be paired with quiet mechanical keys. The only other modification I'd make is to put a thick rubber pad on the baseplate so that the keys dont clack when they bottom out (and thus the only sound would be the actuation click from the speaker).
 
I'm sure someone with the right equipment in their basement could rig up something like this!

[wellington1869]

I think you would also like an Alps-based board. Compared to my Model Ms, it is much lighter, and has a very satisfying tactile feel and click. There does seem to be; however, a little more noise than Buckling Springs

seconding this. I tried an alps (macally tactile pro) in J&R for the first time a few weeks ago, I couldnt stop typing on it. Very very fluid. But way too loud for me, there's no where I could use it without getting yelled at

[itlnstln]

I'm still amazed no one has put out a keyboard with built in speakers and separately generated audio click. That way you could add an on/off switch, volume control, and even customized click sounds (you could choose whether to hear buckling spring sounds, blue cherry sounds, old style keyboard clacks, ibm selectric sounds...). Or turn it off altogether, or adjust its volume for a crowded office etc.
 
This would also solve another problem with clickys, which is that sometimes on older ones, not all the keys click equally loudly. This throws me off sometimes. I generally love clicky keyboards but it sometimes bugs me when all the keys arent equally loud.  Because while typing fast you start to depend on audio feedback instintively and then when you dont quite hear it on a key it disrupts my rhythm.
 
A built-in speaker would solve everything, basically. It could still be paired with quiet mechanical keys. The only other modification I'd make is to put a thick rubber pad on the baseplate so that the keys dont clack when they bottom out (and thus the only sound would be the actuation click from the speaker).
 
I'm sure someone with the right equipment in their basement could rig up something like this!

I remember IBM's 3270 Terminal Model Ms had a built in speaker that beeped when keys were pressed (I guess the click wouldn't be enough of a clue ).

seconding this. I tried an alps (macally tactile pro) in J&R for the first time a few weeks ago, I couldnt stop typing on it. Very very fluid. But way too loud for me, there's no where I could use it without getting yelled at  

I use my Northgate at work (open-air cubicles), but then again, I just don't give a...

[bigpook]

I'm still amazed no one has put out a keyboard with built in speakers and separately generated audio click. That way you could add an on/off switch, volume control, and even customized click sounds (you could choose whether to hear buckling spring sounds, blue cherry sounds, old style keyboard clacks, ibm selectric sounds...). Or turn it off altogether, or adjust its volume for a crowded office etc.
 
This would also solve another problem with clickys, which is that sometimes on older ones, not all the keys click equally loudly. This throws me off sometimes. I generally love clicky keyboards but it sometimes bugs me when all the keys arent equally loud.  Because while typing fast you start to depend on audio feedback instintively and then when you dont quite hear it on a key it disrupts my rhythm.
 
A built-in speaker would solve everything, basically. It could still be paired with quiet mechanical keys. The only other modification I'd make is to put a thick rubber pad on the baseplate so that the keys dont clack when they bottom out (and thus the only sound would be the actuation click from the speaker).
 

For some reason that I can not explain, having speakers in the keyboard seems disingenuous.
Its like adding an air dam to a ford pinto. One look and its like WTF.

[itlnstln]

Also, it's not just the sound, it's the feel.  A speaker can't emulate that.

[bigpook]

Yeah, that to. It was late when I posted, late for me anyways and I couldn't put my finger on it. I can see that it may be helpful to have a speaker playing the sound but not for long term use. At least for me anyways. I like it really real ; )

[itlnstln]

I like it really real ; )

You don't like silicon clicks?

[Vinz]

I'm still amazed no one has put out a keyboard with built in speakers and separately generated audio click. That way you could add an on/off switch, volume control, and even customized click sounds (you could choose whether to hear buckling spring sounds, blue cherry sounds, old style keyboard clacks, ibm selectric sounds...). Or turn it off altogether, or adjust its volume for a crowded office etc.

My Kinesis Ergo Elan has a built-in speaker, that generates a soft clicky sound. Unfortunately you can only turn it on or off, not set volume or different sounds. Oh, and keys like caps lock can give different beeps when you en/disable them, but I have that turned off. The soft clicks solve a minor problem with the Cherry Browns, in that it's hard to feel exactly when they engage, and that you can easily engage them multiple times if you hover around the engagement point. Hearing clicks tells you exactly what's happening, so that solves it. Also, the F-keys on the Kinesis are horrible small rubber key rubber dome thingies that give no feedback whatsoever, so having a click there definitely helps. Luckily I don't have to use those keys all the time... *shudders*.

[wellington1869]

The soft clicks solve a minor problem with the Cherry Browns, in that it's hard to feel exactly when they engage, and that you can easily engage them multiple times if you hover around the engagement point. Hearing clicks tells you exactly what's happening, so that solves it.

I agree, in some ways an electronic click might actually be more accurate than a mechanical one  If its generated right from the keyboard there also wouldnt be any latency the way noisykeyboard.exe sometimes has.

[Ulysses31]

I installed that utility to try it out, but I don't have any good "click" sounds to use it with.  I tried using a default windows "tick" sound but it quickly got really annoying lol.

[wellington1869]

I installed that utility to try it out, but I don't have any good "click" sounds to use it with. I tried using a default windows "tick" sound but it quickly got really annoying lol.

Thats exactly why I launched this thread  I'm going to contribute a few more click sounds to be used with noisykeyboards soon as my other keyboards arrive...

[Ulysses31]

OK, so I installed that clip and it's quite interesting.  I thought I wouldn't mind the clicky sound whenever I type but it really grates.  It might just be the recording not being able to capture low-frequencies, but it is quite a high-pitched sound and I think I would probably prefer something that had a nice solid action and good tactility but no loud click.  It sounds a lot like i'm using a typewriter.  I guess I won't be purchasing that blue Cherry keyboard any time soon.

[wellington1869]

It sounds a lot like i'm using a typewriter.

I think thats why some people like it, its partly nostalgia, and partly that some people like that audio (and tactile) feedback. I grew up on both kinds of keyboards so I'm able to go back and forth.
 
If you've ever typed a paper on an IBM selectric typewriter I think you would see the appeal It was a real holistic experience I suppose its not for everyone.  It can be addicting though.

[Ulysses31]

I'm getting a little more used to it now.  I still think it'd disturb others though.  It's growing on me!

[wellington1869]

I'm getting a little more used to it now. I still think it'd disturb others though. It's growing on me!

by the way, that sound I uploaded was from cherry clicky whites -- the cherry blues sound is not as loud, its just a little bit softer. The blues might be a nice compromise in terms of volume level. (I'll know for sure when my new blues 'board arrives in three days When it comes I'll upload its keypress for use with noisykeyboards.