Author Topic: Cherry MX Spring Measurements  (Read 59350 times)

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Offline TheSoulhunter

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 21 August 2013, 14:13:54 »
I have a 65g and 67g Korean spring I can send you if you want to test some additional springs.

Can you get more of this 67g springs? More like... 200? :3

Offline damorgue

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 21 August 2013, 14:23:47 »
Nice rig. Did you observe any rotation or twist of the springs when they reached their most compressed state, particularly the light springs? Springs want to twist when you compress them, and I just want to know if they do in MX switches. That would motivate lubing their ends to allow them to rotate more freely.

Offline rknize

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 21 August 2013, 14:26:45 »
Given how soft the springs are and how short the switch throw is, I doubt the winding effect of the spring could overcome the friction at each end...even if they are lubed.  I did not note any movement in the rig.
Russ

Offline damorgue

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #53 on: Wed, 21 August 2013, 15:04:09 »
Given how soft the springs are and how short the switch throw is, I doubt the winding effect of the spring could overcome the friction at each end...even if they are lubed.  I did not note any movement in the rig.

That is what I thought as well. I don't think lubing the ends will have any effect either, but so many people do so I was confused about it.

Offline sordna

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #54 on: Sun, 22 September 2013, 21:50:48 »
Anyone know the difference between the Originative springs: https://www.originativeco.com/shop/accessories/product/86-springs

and their "springs (limited)": https://www.originativeco.com/shop/accessories/product/88-springs-limited

??

Both of these come in 55 and 62 weights, so I'm also wondering if the regular or limited ones where used in the tests described in the OP !

Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline SubGothius

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #55 on: Mon, 23 September 2013, 17:46:51 »
Wow, thx rknize; this is awesome, looking forward to other spring tests. What I'd love to find is a spring with a steeper rate than clears but a lighter activation point, so they're light to activate but still resist bottoming-out at least as well as clears do.
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

Offline Jmneuv

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #56 on: Fri, 08 November 2013, 03:24:52 »
Damn, what did i swap in black springs into my clears for then?
Panda clears seem to be a bit of a myth then.

Thanks for the science!

Offline Soarer

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #57 on: Fri, 08 November 2013, 07:18:14 »
No myth; they have clearly different slopes. You should notice it most at the top of the travel, where the black spring will be stronger than the clear by quite a few cN. Can't say I like clears myself, and I can't see how more initial resistance would make them any better, but different? Yes.

Offline Jmneuv

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #58 on: Fri, 08 November 2013, 08:24:42 »
Yeah.. by myth i meant that they were supposed to be just lighter clears.. more resistance at the start sure isn't desirable for clears. I think putting thick caps on them had the actual positive effect.

Offline Soarer

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #59 on: Fri, 08 November 2013, 08:33:29 »
Gotcha. Indeed, keycaps make quite a difference to feel too - I find browns go well with thick Cherry caps, but blues go better with thin SP caps!

Offline asgeirtj

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #60 on: Wed, 14 January 2015, 02:38:46 »
I don't understand.  How does originative 45g have more k(g/mm) than originative 55g ?
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Offline Oobly

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #61 on: Wed, 14 January 2015, 04:17:44 »
I don't understand.  How does originative 45g have more k(g/mm) than originative 55g ?

k=slope of the graph. It's how much the force changes with distance. It's got less preload with the slider at the top, but the force increases more rapidly with travel.
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 October 2015, 01:22:14 by Oobly »
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline SamirD

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #62 on: Sat, 10 October 2015, 22:05:45 »
Absolutely fascinating work.  :cool:

Have you had a chance to try other springs like one from a buckling spring?  I bet a graph showing the differences in springs between an IBM M and IBM F would be just as interesting, especially to compare to the Cherry springs.

Offline ideus

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #63 on: Sat, 10 October 2015, 22:08:49 »
It seems that the last OP post was on 2013; it is not clear if he is still working on this.

Offline SamirD

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #64 on: Sat, 10 October 2015, 23:34:56 »
It seems that the last OP post was on 2013; it is not clear if he is still working on this.
Yeah, but I saw some replies from early this year so in addition to the props for the work, I thought I'd throw it out there.


Offline dr_habu

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #65 on: Mon, 23 November 2015, 16:15:51 »
Absolutely fascinating work.  :cool:

Have you had a chance to try other springs like one from a buckling spring?  I bet a graph showing the differences in springs between an IBM M and IBM F would be just as interesting, especially to compare to the Cherry springs.


Measuring the force required to activate a bs switch would require a slightly different rig, because you'd have to measure force needed to buckle a spring that's compressed at the same angles as it would be in a switch, so simply measuring the force required to compress it wouldn't do.

Also, sorry for continuing to necro this thread, but I've found it pretty interesting given that I've thought about doing something similar.

Offline SamirD

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #66 on: Fri, 27 November 2015, 14:58:17 »
Thank you for the reply!  I don't mind reading an old thread with valuable new posts. ;)

That's a very good point about the buckling spring design.  Do you think there's a possible test that can be used to create a relative index of some sort to measure 'feel' between different switch types.  For example, a certain switch becomes the index and then every other one is a deviation from that switch's properties?

Offline rknize

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #67 on: Tue, 08 December 2015, 13:11:59 »
I moved last year, which is why I've been only just barely lurking here.  I went from a tiny but barely functional shop at the old place to no shop space at all and a garage packed to the gills with crap.  All of my keyboards and parts, with the exception of my Filco and an SSK at work, were put into storage.

I just got my new shop space up and running a couple of weeks ago and can now park a car in my garage.  I've been slowly bringing my keyboard stuff out of hiding.  In fact, I happened upon the jig that used for this the other day.  i also found the stash of springs that I was testing.  My keyboard enthusiasm hasn't completely recovered yet, but it was nice to type on a model F again the other day.  :)

Regarding model F/M springs, so I haven't really considered that.  I imagine that there are differences.  I was mainly trying to put to rest some of the debate about these various springs and how they relate to Korean springs.
Russ

Offline SamirD

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #68 on: Mon, 14 December 2015, 05:28:42 »
Good to hear the move hasn't completely dampened your enthusiasm.  I know about moving and what that does to the hobbies.  Glad to hear you're slowly but surely getting back into it.  :thumb:

Offline ideus

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #69 on: Mon, 14 December 2015, 07:24:23 »
It seems that the last OP post was on 2013; it is not clear if he is still working on this.
Yeah, but I saw some replies from early this year so in addition to the props for the work, I thought I'd throw it out there.




He is back.

Offline mashby

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 16 December 2015, 17:51:31 »
@rknize -- great to have you back man!

I put together a little GDocs spreadsheet of all MX Compatible switches with known data for actuation weights and bottom out weights. Obviously I used your data for the bottoming out figures. GH thread here.

If your keyboard enthusiasm picks back up, I'd love to send you various switches so that you could test them with your rig. Please let me know if you have any interest.

Offline rknize

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #71 on: Thu, 17 December 2015, 01:31:04 »
OK, will do.  :)

Being forced to use the same keyboards for over a year was kind of a good thing.  I picked the right ones (BS and ergo-clears).  Playing around with some of the other boards makes me realize that I should probably sell some of these others.
Russ

Offline ideus

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #72 on: Thu, 17 December 2015, 07:18:13 »
OK, will do.  :)

Being forced to use the same keyboards for over a year was kind of a good thing.  I picked the right ones (BS and ergo-clears).  Playing around with some of the other boards makes me realize that I should probably sell some of these others.


Ergo clears are really nice, do you have them plate or PCB mounted?

Offline rknize

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #73 on: Mon, 21 December 2015, 20:34:16 »
It's a Filco, so they are plate mounted.
Russ

Offline mashby

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #74 on: Tue, 22 December 2015, 08:31:02 »
OK, will do.  :)

Sweet.

I'm currently collecting various switches and setting them aside for you when you're ready.  :))

Offline ideus

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #75 on: Tue, 22 December 2015, 10:47:13 »
OK, will do.  :)

Sweet.

I'm currently collecting various switches and setting them aside for you when you're ready.  :))


Please post a picture of the various switches do you have, it would be very cool to have it along with the spreadsheet.

Offline mashby

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #76 on: Tue, 22 December 2015, 11:31:23 »
OK, will do.  :)

Sweet.

I'm currently collecting various switches and setting them aside for you when you're ready.  :))

Hmmmm... That's not a bad idea. I'll have to see what I can do.


Please post a picture of the various switches do you have, it would be very cool to have it along with the spreadsheet.

Offline ramnes

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #77 on: Sun, 08 January 2017, 09:56:31 »
The plots in the first post disappeared, looks like the pictures are down. Did someone save them?
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Offline davkol

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #78 on: Mon, 09 January 2017, 12:53:08 »
They work for me.

Notably, there are HaaTa's measurements these days.

Offline rknize

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #79 on: Thu, 10 May 2018, 16:57:44 »
Fixed!  Lack of SSL support on my end.
Russ

Offline haydoselefantes

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #80 on: Tue, 29 May 2018, 12:32:54 »
Fixed!  Lack of SSL support on my end.

Images not working for me in Safari or Chrome on OS X or Safari on iOS.  Does indeed appear to be an SSL issue - I can see the images if I open the links separately, just not inlined in the thread.

Offline Giorgio

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #81 on: Wed, 30 May 2018, 02:06:26 »
Somebody should test the cherry mx silents, and the cherry mx switches with the silent clips. They're different from the standard switches. The main difference is in the first "step": they're harder to press, the initial force is bigger.

Offline rknize

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #82 on: Wed, 13 June 2018, 14:47:37 »
Fixed!  Lack of SSL support on my end.

Images not working for me in Safari or Chrome on OS X or Safari on iOS.  Does indeed appear to be an SSL issue - I can see the images if I open the links separately, just not inlined in the thread.

OK, was missing www in the cert.  Should work now.
Russ

Offline haydoselefantes

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #83 on: Wed, 27 June 2018, 19:47:58 »
OK, was missing www in the cert.  Should work now.
Thanks!

Offline clacklabs

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #84 on: Sun, 09 May 2021, 08:50:30 »
Seems like the images are down again, anyone have a mirror or local copies?

EDIT: Seems like they work if I visit them (non https) directly at least. Not ideal in 2021, but it works ;D
« Last Edit: Sun, 09 May 2021, 08:52:08 by clacklabs »

Offline rknize

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Re: Cherry MX Spring Measurements
« Reply #85 on: Mon, 10 May 2021, 10:17:25 »
Hmm, I guess my cert expired again.  I shall fix.
Russ