Author Topic: Model M Problem  (Read 1759 times)

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Offline Catweazle

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Model M Problem
« on: Thu, 01 August 2013, 23:21:30 »
I recently upgraded to a newer motherboard, a Biostar H61MLv2, and now when I turn on the computer my Model M won't work at all. I have to plug in a USB keyboard and enter BIOS setup, then go to save and exit, and now it will be detected and once I get into Windows my Model M works perfectly. It seems like the BIOS isn't detecting it properly. If I just restart the computer there is no problem either, it is only from a cold start that the Model M won't work without the help of another keyboard and some coaxing. Does my motherboard have a bad PS/2 port or could it be a BIOS issue?

Offline rowdy

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Re: Model M Problem
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 02 August 2013, 00:07:49 »
Newer motherboards (especially those that are Windows 8 compliant) do not fully initialise USB before they allow the OS to start.

This causes problems with USB disks, and possibly with keyboards too.

The idea is that the BIOS (or whatever it is called now) is supposed to allow the OS to boot in under some set short time, and thus does not wait for USB devices to initialise properly.

Maybe this is what you are experiencing?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline Catweazle

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Re: Model M Problem
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 02 August 2013, 00:54:46 »
Maybe, it's a PS/2 keyboard though. I've been searching some more and I found several posts about how modern keyboards often don't supply enough power to the PS/2 port and the Model M uses more power than most keyboards. I found a tip that enablling wake on keyboard might help since it should keep the keyboard powered up at all times, and I found out about some SDL to USB cables that someone makes for Model M keyboards. I'll try the wake on keyboard thing first and if that doesn't work maybe I'll order one of the USB converter cables.

Thanks

Offline rowdy

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Re: Model M Problem
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 02 August 2013, 01:18:44 »
Ah, sorry, missed that bit.

SDL to USB cables - I have been recommended this one: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/270955553909?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com.au%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D270955553909%26_rdc%3D1

I have one on order at the moment.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline HendyZone

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Re: Model M Problem
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 02 August 2013, 02:05:30 »
try to use the SDL to USB cables directly it's better  :thumb:

Offline rootwyrm

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Re: Model M Problem
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 02 August 2013, 02:29:09 »
Biostar absolutely and utterly fails at BIOS and insists on ****ing around WAY too much with the reference builds. End result? They break ****. Like this. And they go "oh well everyone uses X so why bother fixing it?" and ship it anyways. If it wasn't supplying enough power, it wouldn't work period. The end. Biostar's crapfest simply doesn't init the LPC SIO correctly until the protected mode transition - this is an unequivocally broken BIOS. This is NOT the first time I've seen it either.

TL;DR: If you want a working system, you need a new motherboard. From a different manufacturer.
"I remain convinced I am the only person alive who has successfully worn out an IBM Model M mechanically."
Daily Drivers: Adesso 625 (NPKC PBT / Kailh Blue), Rosewill RK9000V2 (KC PBT / MX Brown), 1994 Model M13, Sun Type4, and the rare IBM 1394540.

Offline nappi11

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Re: Model M Problem
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 02 August 2013, 02:53:16 »
How about a bios update?
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Offline The_Ed

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Re: Model M Problem
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 02 August 2013, 03:01:17 »
I'm typing this post with a 1390120 using an orihalcon SDL to USB cable. I highly recommend his cables for anyone using a Model M. That *may* clear up your problems.
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Offline Catweazle

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Re: Model M Problem
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 02 August 2013, 03:52:11 »
Biostar absolutely and utterly fails at BIOS and insists on ****ing around WAY too much with the reference builds. End result? They break ****. Like this. And they go "oh well everyone uses X so why bother fixing it?" and ship it anyways. If it wasn't supplying enough power, it wouldn't work period. The end. Biostar's crapfest simply doesn't init the LPC SIO correctly until the protected mode transition - this is an unequivocally broken BIOS. This is NOT the first time I've seen it either.

TL;DR: If you want a working system, you need a new motherboard. From a different manufacturer.

That makes sense, I was wondering why it worked so well once it finally gets past the initial startup. It was a really cheap motherboard and I've already found that the onboard NIC is pretty terrible too, I guess I'll try to upgrade it to something better when I get a chance. In the meantime I'm going to get one of those cables, thanks for the recommendations everyone. Since PS/2 is going to be phased out eventually I'll need it someday anyway because I can't imagine typing on anything but buckling springs now. :)

Offline bazemk1979

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Re: Model M Problem
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 02 August 2013, 07:18:40 »
I recently upgraded to a newer motherboard, a Biostar H61MLv2, and now when I turn on the computer my Model M won't work at all. I have to plug in a USB keyboard and enter BIOS setup, then go to save and exit, and now it will be detected and once I get into Windows my Model M works perfectly. It seems like the BIOS isn't detecting it properly. If I just restart the computer there is no problem either, it is only from a cold start that the Model M won't work without the help of another keyboard and some coaxing. Does my motherboard have a bad PS/2 port or could it be a BIOS issue?

Catweazle problem is with some motherboards not having enough feeding power in their PS/2, and Model M is a hungry beast when it comes to drawing power. Your best bet would be blue cube adapter and also buy yourself 4-5 feet male to female usb cable, u'll need that cable because the blue cube is little clunky and may block up to 2 ports on your mobo.

BTW if I remember correct, are you the same Catweazle that was playing on Barroom server?
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Offline rootwyrm

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Re: Model M Problem
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 02 August 2013, 18:09:06 »
Biostar absolutely and utterly fails at BIOS and insists on ****ing around WAY too much with the reference builds. End result? They break ****. Like this. And they go "oh well everyone uses X so why bother fixing it?" and ship it anyways. If it wasn't supplying enough power, it wouldn't work period. The end. Biostar's crapfest simply doesn't init the LPC SIO correctly until the protected mode transition - this is an unequivocally broken BIOS. This is NOT the first time I've seen it either.

TL;DR: If you want a working system, you need a new motherboard. From a different manufacturer.

That makes sense, I was wondering why it worked so well once it finally gets past the initial startup. It was a really cheap motherboard and I've already found that the onboard NIC is pretty terrible too, I guess I'll try to upgrade it to something better when I get a chance. In the meantime I'm going to get one of those cables, thanks for the recommendations everyone. Since PS/2 is going to be phased out eventually I'll need it someday anyway because I can't imagine typing on anything but buckling springs now. :)

Yup. And Biostar ain't gonna fix it. Ever. So yeah. Chuck their garbage. They're one of the few vendors to make my blacklist for BIOS stupidity.
The most hilarious part is that 8 out of 10 of their BIOS defects that would automatically FAIL any sort of certification process? ARE SELF-INFLICTED. Baseline is JUST fine, and then their idiots get their hands on it, break it horribly, and ship anyway. And you can outright forget ever seeing a fix. Hell, they don't even do their microcode updates on time, much less correctly. Upstream basically GIVES them exactly what they need to do, and they manage to screw it up anyway.

Ten bucks says the morons pushed the SIO's IPL to protected mode ROM segment again because they put the bloated and permanently buggy Atheros POS (seriously, I wouldn't use the 8152 to torture people) in real-mode for PXE and WoL that doesn't even #$@&*ing work.
"I remain convinced I am the only person alive who has successfully worn out an IBM Model M mechanically."
Daily Drivers: Adesso 625 (NPKC PBT / Kailh Blue), Rosewill RK9000V2 (KC PBT / MX Brown), 1994 Model M13, Sun Type4, and the rare IBM 1394540.

Offline compgeke

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Re: Model M Problem
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 03 August 2013, 11:56:17 »
I also would like the point out now that Biostar motherboards don't have SATA Devices, they have SATA Devcies, as my Biostar AM2 board is proud to display.

It also has problems with Model Ms on the PS/2 port.