Author Topic: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.  (Read 2077 times)

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Offline ScarletPumpernickel

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Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 00:02:07 »
Hello guys, I was told it's the best place for mechanical keyboards questions. So here I am.

 

I'm typing this on Zowie Celestia keyboard and the only things I like about it are it's colour and the Cherry MX Brown switches, the things I'm not so stoked about are: characters are not lasered so they became dirty and hardly visible in just two days, it has no retractable feet but has a short right shift and "slash" key next to it (drives me nuts).

 
The thing I should start with is: I live in the bumf_ck Russia and it factors in in two ways. First, there's some probability that anything marginally valuable I order from the  abroad will either end up at home of some customs or postal worker or it will be plain lost. In best case it will come to me in 2-3 months (I hope, I was kidding here). Second, I'll have to custom engrave the characters and it's another hassle, what if they screw it up...
That's why I'm listing the models that are available to me right now(in order of price from highest down):

 

1) Filco Majestouch-2 - where I live, it is almost twice as expensive as the number two ($260) but seems to be good in other regards. But the price' just killing me.

 

2) Razer BlackWidow Stealth 2013 (not the Ultimate - I don't care about those lights). Some time ago in the store I was able to place my hands on its predecessor and it felt quiet nice but I wouldn't be able to cope with the MX Blues. I liked the feet angle (although I was standing at the time) and it felt as if the keycaps were slightly bigger than standard ones and maybe not as tall - that would be a plus for me since my previous keyboard was Logitech Wave and I came to appreciate the big keycaps. Maybe it's the font that makes them look bigger. If somebody has a Blackwidow please tell me if the keycaps are actually the standard size and while you at it, does Blackwidow have a metal backplate? The things I don't like about it are: glowing logo (thank dog it's small and it's green), macro keys - I'm not going to use them and if anything else, the way they are placed, I'm afraid they're gonna mess with my typing. Also I have no need for any USB pass-through and audio shenanigans, those just make the cable harder to thread to where I need to. Almost forgot, those fonts look peculiar, to put it mildly. And I will really try to avoid using the drivers.

 

3) Leopold FC500R - cheapest of the three (where I live). The looks are kinda meh to me (mostly the sticker) and the blue LED lights are the worst to my eyes. Also with the slim bezel it looks like the smallest of the three and as a former Logitech Wave user I prefer my keyboards on the wide side. Is it indeed smaller than a Filco Majestouch-2? I have no personal experience with different key stabilizer but I read on this forum that the ones Filco's using are preferable to Leopold's (don't know which ones Zowie uses but it doesn't feel that sturdy to me). I like its detachable cable (and that you can thread it to the side) although miniUSB worries me slightly; did anybody have it (the port) fail? Guess my main question about it: Is Filco that much better, cause it costs twice as much here?

 

 

Non contenders:
 

a) Logithec g710+ - regrettably, it has short "shift" key on the model they sell here, and those gray WASD keys are UGLY.

b) Das Keyboard Professional Silent - costs almost as much as Filco (where I live). I really like the general design, but the things I've read about a recent QC issues, plus the glossy finish with that price make it a no go for me.
 

The things I look for in the keyboard are:
 

- it should be black and fullsize,

- it must have CherryMX Brown switches,

- it should have retractable feet (the taller and sturdier - the better),

- the bigger the keycaps - the better,

- the cable has to be absolutely not shorter then 6ft,

- lasered characters (I'm not a blind typer by any margin),

- proper long "shift" and "backspace" keys,

- driverless operation (macro keys don't count).

- Oh and also that rollover thing.

 

Thank you, guys.

I'm sorry you had to wade through all this.

 

Alex.
« Last Edit: Fri, 09 August 2013, 00:05:48 by ScarletPumpernickel »

Offline ScarletPumpernickel

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Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 00:12:55 »
If anybody of you has two or all three of those keyboards, could you PLEASE post a photo of them next to each other.

Much obliged.

Offline jonathanyu

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Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 00:24:14 »
In these keyboard, the filco may be is the best one. If you don't mind to have a second hand one, you can look at the classifieds section. There often have filco that's for selling in a good price.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 00:35:17 »
Welcome to Geekhack!

Avoid the BlackWidow - there are far more reports of problems with these than most other brands.

Filco is one of the best you can get, hence the price.

Leopold are good, but have a non-standard space bar (which is not as much of a problem now as it used to be).

Also consider Ducky (with or without backlighting).

Can you order from, say, qtan (China) and have it shipped to you?  Or would that be too expensive?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline ScarletPumpernickel

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Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 00:41:03 »
Thank you, jonathanyu and rowdy. But as I wrote in my first post, there's some adversities I have to face when buying keyboards from abroad. It's not just the price, it's the "whole package": postal service is unreliable and extremely slow plus the engraving affair.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 00:42:06 »
If you are really limited to those 3 options, go for the Filco if you can afford it, and the Leopold if not.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline ScarletPumpernickel

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Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 00:46:01 »
I know it's not the best question, but what would I lose, stepping down from Filco to Leopold? I could afford o-rings if I go with Leo. And also does Filco's cable have 6ft in length, as I uderstand it's not detachable.

Offline PadawanGeek

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Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 05:45:46 »
The one on my MJ2 are non-detachable and only 1.5m in length. There's always the option of getting a USB extension cable, basically a USB female port at one end and a male port on the other. These are readily available in my neck of the woods, not sure about availability in your part of the world though. As for losing anything when going from a Filco to Leopold, I can't say, but I would imagine the difference is negligible at worst. Leopold make pretty good KB from what I've read about them, I've not had the chance to try one though....

Offline ScarletPumpernickel

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Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 06:07:27 »
Thank you, PadawanGeek the cable length is very important to me; sure I could get the extension, it's just that spending $260 on the Filco and than having to buy an extension cord...

As of now Razer BW2013S is out of the race because I read about characters starting to wear off in two weeks of use (hope nothing of the sort will happen with Filco or Leo) and also because I won't be able to look at BW before I buy it.

The other place, that sells Leo's, Filcos and Das' agreed to bring me all three of them so I would pick one or nothing at all (pretty cool of them). So Das is back in the game despite the glossy finish. I think in the end it will all come down to ergonomics.

I just hope that none of the three uses same keycaps as Zowie does - they just feel so uncomfortable to me and I keep missing the keys.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 06:18:19 »
If you get a DAS, make sure it is one of the older ones, without media keys I think, as the quality of the older ones was much higher.

You can't really go wrong with Filco, which partly explains the high price.

Leopold is also good.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline ScarletPumpernickel

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Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 06:37:35 »
They just got the Das keyboards and the photo shows those blue mediakeys, so I guess, I'm out of luck on that front, but it's good to know in advance that the quality is so much worse.

Offline Photekq

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Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 06:39:48 »
Go for the Leopold. Leopold make good, quality keyboards. A Filco may be better but it isn't worth the price, especially since it's far more expensive where you live.
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Offline PadawanGeek

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Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 09:11:17 »
Sounds like the Leopold would be your best option, solid board....yes, Filco's better, but for the price difference (if it's as much as you'd indicated, then the Leopold would be the better buy. If it were me, I'm no MKB expert like many here, I'd take the Leopold if it's priced THAT much better than the Filco. One thing's for sure, I'd never consider the Razer BW 2013........build quality is not up to Filco and Leopold (IMO) and I dislike mechanical KB with the 'Gaming' moniker, I dislike the looks/design of such boards. I prefer the regular rectangular shaped ones like Ducky, Filco, certain CM KB's.....heck, even the Keycool 84 LED which I'd just gotten looks better than any flashy 'Gaming' KBs.....to me anyway.

Offline kwago

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Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 09:46:35 »
kind of tacky but amazon has this one for $145 USD

http://www.amazon.com/Filco-Majestouch-2-Keyboard-FKBN104M-EMU2/dp/B005J938VK/ref=sr_1_1?m=A2L77EE7U53NWQ&s=merchant&ie=UTF8&qid=1376059279&sr=1-1&keywords=filco


WASD just put out their v2. Only the TKL model is out so far though.

Also, Coolermaster was supposed to release the Quickfire XT… http://www.amazon.com/computers-accessories/dp/B00DKXXABK

Amazon only seems to have it in mx red and blue :/

Offline czarek

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Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 11:05:11 »
How about G80? They're not so bad really, although PCB mounted switches feel very much different than plate mounted.
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Offline ScarletPumpernickel

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Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 16:02:39 »
@kwago Thanks for the suggestions, it's just that the list of mech keyboards available to me here is limited because of the reasons I explained in my first post.
Coolermaster aren't going to sell their MX Brown keyboards here anytime soon - I called their office just the other day.


@czarek Unfortunately it seems that Cherry keyboards disappeared from the retail here, it's a shame really because from ergonomics standpoint G80 appeals to me, I especially like "caps lock" key on this board, I had a similar one on my Logithec Wave and I miss it very much.


Alas the only place here that sells high quality mech keyboards, doesn't have MX Brown Duckies, well they don't have any ATM. Maybe Duckies are worth the wait for me if I knew that the keycaps would fit me better. If somebody have both, can you tell me how Ducky's keycaps shape compare to Filco's?

Offline knotra

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Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 09 August 2013, 16:44:00 »
I have a Filco Majestouch and a Leopold FC200R. In my opinion, the Filco is a better keyboard but if you have to pay double the price then I don't know if it's worth it. The Leopold FC200R is a great board. Sturdy and Durable. Fc500r is just the full size version i believe.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 10 August 2013, 03:35:17 »
I have a Filco Majestouch and a Leopold FC200R. In my opinion, the Filco is a better keyboard but if you have to pay double the price then I don't know if it's worth it. The Leopold FC200R is a great board. Sturdy and Durable. Fc500r is just the full size version i believe.

This pretty much says it - the Filco is generally the better board, but the Leopold is a strong second place.

I don't think you'll have many regrets if you do go for Leopold.

And the more recent FC660C/M - I don't think I have heard a bad word about them - so Leopold is only getting better.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline ScarletPumpernickel

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Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 10 September 2013, 19:51:42 »
Hello. I'm back to tell you what I ended up with. In case anybody's interested. As many of you suggested, my best option and the only sane choice was a Leopold, considering the price difference I was facing (as I wrote before prices are different here).

Well, I went with Filco. The reason being: it just wasn't happening for me with the Leopold. As I told you, I have had an opportunity to test them (Leo, Das and Filco) before purchase.

1) I'll start with the last one I tried – the Das keyboard. It felt to me as good as Filco, that is until I hit the spacebar. I don't know, maybe the board was defective or they're using the different switch there (black?), but it felt really “spongy” to me. Also, after using it for no longer than a minute, I noticed a tiny but very distinctive scratch on the glossy finish, so I packed the keyboard back up in a hurry.

2) The Leopold was the first one I tried. It felt solid enough. Those rounded corners looked kinda meh to me. All in all it felt OK and I really wanted to like it; but as soon as I laid my hands on the Filco, I knew that even if I bought the Leopold this time it wouldn't be long before I would buy Filco. So I went with Filco rigtht away and saved myself some money (kinda). If I had to describe, why it felt better to me, I'd guess it's because Filco is a little bit taller and the keycaps' shape is different enough so it made my hands feel more confident. The Costar stabilizers should have made the difference also.

After buying Filco, I found a shop to custom engrave the keycaps. It didn't turn up perfect (after 2.5 attempts mind you) but good enough for me. I went about placing the characters this way because, as you can see, there are lots of similar looking characters in Cyrillic and Latin alphabets and on my previous keyboards I have been confusing them from time to time; not anymore. Also I bought a stepped “Caps Lock” keycap (that I came to appreciate so much on my previous Logitech Wave), actually, I bought two because the first one had a wrong font and the second one is almost right.

Thank you again for your advice.

P.S. Filco is definitely “pingy”, at least mine is.


Offline Emospence

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Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 10 September 2013, 21:44:30 »
I'd go with WASD v2 if it's cheaper than the Filco after taking into account shipping, because that price for the Filco seems insane.
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Offline ScarletPumpernickel

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Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 11 September 2013, 08:21:24 »
I would too, probably, but there's a couple factors involved in this. First is my postal service, although I'm ok with ordering a few keycaps - it's about ten bucks, no big deal, I feel weary ordering the full keyboard to where I live. The second thing is, the people that I bought the Filco from granted me the opportunity to test a few models before purchase and I liked the Filco model, so I would feel bad buying a keyboard from somebody else afterwards. I'll probably buy my next keyboard from some online store.

Offline Dubsgalore

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    • Dubs - Sneakers, Keyboards, and Life
Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 11 September 2013, 08:34:13 »
My first keyboard ever was a fullsized DAS with browns..if i were you, i would roll with the filco or the leopold

Offline ScarletPumpernickel

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Re: Please, help me pick a fullsize CherryMX Brown keyboard.
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 11 September 2013, 08:41:31 »
Well, I did.