ALPS MCL-101

[abdulmuhsee]

So I'm new to mechanical keyboards, having always had $10 basic ones for all of my adult life.  My latest "spill proof" one was ruined while cleaning it with a wet paper towel, and since I didn't particularly want another random usb keyboard, I decided to bust out an ALPS MCL-101.

I've read a bit about the switch types, Cherry MX, Complicated ALPS, Simple ALPS, how Black ALPS are apparently terrible, so I'd just like to know what kind of keyboard I have here.  Is this a cheap keyboard, or is it an older, original ALPS with good switches and whatnot?

For typing, I'm enjoying the unique sensation, but for games, I'm struggling a bit with how hard I have to push down the keys; makes it feel unresponsive somehow.  The spacebar also seems a touch squeaky and needs to be pressed close to the center to get a clean input and can't be satisfactorily pressed near the edge like I'm used to.  I had mechanical keyboards growing up with Windows 3.1, 95, and ME, but I don't ever remember the keys being quite this stiff.

So yeah, just wondering if I could get some info on this keyboard from someone who is knowledgeable in these affairs.  Also, as a somewhat unrelated side question, I was curious as to why my computer will sometimes beep at me if I happen to hit multiple keys at once with this keyboard.

[rowdy]

Seems to be discussed, briefly, here: http://www.reddit.com/r/keyboards/comments/xpric/found_an_alps_mcl101_in_my_neighbors_attic_anyone/

Black Complicated Tactile NonClicky ALPS, according to our old friend.

[abdulmuhsee]

So is Black Complicated Tactile NonClicky ALPS a good thing or a bad thing?  What's the difference between Complicated and Simple and Blacks with the other colors?

[Techno Trousers]

I always thought it would be cool to have an Alps branded keyboard with Alps switches. Surprisingly, this is the first one I've ever heard of!

The Deskthority wiki has good information about the different types of Alps switches. As to whether one is "good" or "bad", that's all down to personal preference. I prefer clicky, tactile switches myself, so I like the white alps over the other kinds, but everyone's different.

[CPTBadAss]

Documented some of my thoughts on Alps here. I'm a huge fan of Monterey Blues (In my Siig Minitouch), Clicky White Alps (in my Tofu101/Ducky1087XM), and the Matias switches (Clicky and Quiet).

[abdulmuhsee]

It's strange that you mentioned Black ALPS switches as being quiet, when this is undoubtedly the loudest keyboard I've ever heard in my entire life; it's almost up there with a typewriter.

It's also more like an unpleasant "clackety-clack" kind of noise instead of a smooth clicking, and I suspect that the switch under the spacebar is the same size as under the keys instead of a special, long switch (not sure if that's normal or not).

I'm still curious as to why it (or the PC) sometimes beeps if I'm hitting multiple keys at once, with a sound that is not coming from the speaker as far as I can tell.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Depends what you mean by "speaker" — there's the motherboard speaker (the one that beeps on older PCs when POST completes), chassis speaker (like what Macs always had), and external speakers. Keyboard buffer alerts are more likely to come from the motherboard speaker. How are you connecting the keyboard to the computer — directly, or via a PS/2 to USB converter?

Black Alps have a nice, fairly crisp sound, but they feel lousy. See the first graph on this page:

http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~silencium/keyboard/html/alpssw.html

Complicated black Alps (the black curve on the graph) has a second peak almost as high as the actuation peak, which matches its confusing, rough linear feel. It's a horrible switch. The predecessor, salmon Alps (not shown), is a fair amount smoother but still too stiff. I've never used orange Alps, but from the graph it looks like the tactile point is way too high; on the plus side, the force curve is much cleaner, and it's 10 cN lighter than black.

Blue is the best non-linear switch Alps ever made, which is reflected in its graph. Fantastic click feel, gentle spring, butter smooth travel, but it's considerably louder. In terms of noise, black Alps sits in the middle between Cherry MX brown, and clicky switches (assuming all plate mount). If you think black Alps is loud, you're going to love a genuinely loud keyboard like blue Alps or buckling spring =)

[abdulmuhsee]

Keyboard buffer alerts are more likely to come from the motherboard speaker. How are you connecting the keyboard to the computer — directly, or via a PS/2 to USB converter?

The keyboard uses an old DIN5 connector, but came with a DIN5 - PS/2 converter, which is how it's hooked up.  If I press, for example, z, x, and c at the same time, the letters appear, but if I press v, b, and n at the same time, I hear a beep coming from my PC (not my speaker).

Black Alps have a nice, fairly crisp sound, but they feel lousy. See the first graph on this page:

http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~silencium/keyboard/html/alpssw.html

Thanks for that graph; I have to agree that they feel pretty lousy, and it's good to know better ALPS switches exist.

Blue is the best non-linear switch Alps ever made, which is reflected in its graph. Fantastic click feel, gentle spring, butter smooth travel, but it's considerably louder. In terms of noise, black Alps sits in the middle between Cherry MX brown, and clicky switches (assuming all plate mount). If you think black Alps is loud, you're going to love a genuinely loud keyboard like blue Alps or buckling spring =)

So is there a way for me to take the Black ALPS off of certain keys and replace them with Blue?  If I could replace the arrow keys, spacebar, and certain other keys with a gentler switch, that might make the keyboard bearable, since I don't mind it as it is for typing.

Is there a place I could get, say, 15 Blue ALPS switches, and then would it just be a matter of prying the keys off and swapping them out?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

The sound is probably coming from the motherboard speaker — the one that gave you sound effects like these:

(the audio is AdLib, and Overkill targets computers with the original AdLib board with no wave audio whatsoever — various old DOS games were like this). I miss the satisfying POST completion beep on older PCs. (There was a driver for Windows that let you use the speaker for actual wave audio, which was funny.)

When you're relying on the BIOS for keyboard input (?), PCs emit a horrible scrapy noise when you press a key when the keyboard buffer is full — holding F8 at boot still triggers this, for example. Seems odd that you'd be able to trigger that so easily, though, as it shouldn't happen once the OS is running.

You can swap switch uppers, although it's such a headache that, if you can solder, you may as well just unsolder the whole switch and swap it outright — much easier, apparently. You'd most likely get blue Alps switches from a donor board.

[abdulmuhsee]

I see, so in other words, if I can't solder, then no replacing of switches for me. :-/

[Daniel Beardsmore]

You can open up the switch and swap out the uppers (upper shell, slider, click or tactile leaf, return spring) without soldering — just requires two extremely thin screwdrivers and a lot of patience. I've started doing that with my Dell AT102W (black Alps) using blue switches from a donor Tulip ATK 030244 (Monterey K101). The end result seems to be a switch that feels more like white Alps (stiffer, probably due a stronger switchplate leaf), but I've not got enough switches back together to be able to type on it. It takes hours, and I got fed up with it — from what I read, the desolder/solder approach is a bit faster and far less fiddly.

I've also damaged a couple of blue switch shells in the process, as you're flexing old, fragile plastic. It's also the seemingly stiffer feel that's putting me off — if I could solder, I'd get the actual blue Alps feel by just moving switches

[Burz]

I've also damaged a couple of blue switch shells in the process, as you're flexing old, fragile plastic. It's also the seemingly stiffer feel that's putting me off — if I could solder, I'd get the actual blue Alps feel by just moving switches

Ah, you like those AT101/102 boards. They are nice. I wish they had put better switches in them.

FWIW, on more humid days I'd swear the blacks in my Dell feel quite crisp. I'd like to try lubing them someday.


abdulmuhsee,
There are quieter ALPS switches if you don't like the noise, such as dampened cream/white ALPS and the new Matias version.

They bring the noise level down to a regular rubber dome keyboard and feel good, too.

I'll also second the recommendation for Monterrey blues. For me, they are about as satisfying to type on as ALPS complicated blue, but not as loud.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

AT101/102 are ugly but solid; the only interest they hold for me is being Alps platform with Windows keys, which I use a lot. Alps keyboards with Model M layout are rare in general — Focus FK2002 is one, but it's ISO. I was getting one, but instead I'm getting a Datacomp that's also true ISO layout. Both are white complicated Alps.

Matias quiet switches are OK, but not great. I'd be wary of any tactile Alps switch. SMK second generation tactile (e.g. the tactile version of the SMK "Monterey", but they're available with at least two mounts) is a much smoother switch, but they're relatively rare. NMB Hi-Tek switches also have a good reputation.

[abdulmuhsee]

Unfortunately, trying out any of the other ALPS (or any other switch) would involve getting an entirely different keyboard which costs many times more than a rubber dome.

Since this one is essentially brand new, I guess I'll just be sticking with it until I find another rubber dome keyboard that I like.  I can't say I hate this one, since I do enjoy it for typing, but my game-playing is really suffering.