Apple Aluminum keyboard

[xsphat]

I get to work and the first thing I noticed was I had a new keyboard sitting there. It's one of the new Apple Aluminum wired keyboards. I know the IT guy knows I'm into keyboards so I really wasn't too surprised. I checked the thing out pretty good because I've only seen them at stores. About two minutes later, I noticed the keyboard was connected to brand new computer — an iMac, 2.4 GHz C2D, 2 GB RAM, 120 GB HD. Not bad, Close to my MacBook's specs, but the crappy thing is it's on 10.4.1.1., and doesn't have Spaces. Sucks butt.

Anyway, since I have owned two MacBooks, I'm pretty used to this 'board already, since their layouts are close to identical. It is a little different, but my first impression was I wanted to prop it up higher. It's really low to the desk and I think that'll take some getting used to.  I don't know, just thought I'd mention it. What do you guys think of this keyboard? Anyoen put any time in on it?

[lam47]

I read that Doctors are apparently saying that your keyboard should be flat. Its supposed to be why the Microsoft Sidewinder x6 has no height adjustment at all.

[wellington1869]

I've read Doctors saying the opposite thing, which is confusing. I've seen scientific reports which led to the ergonomics of the curved, rising keyboard (Model M, Happy Hacking). Let's say this is how the keyboard makers feel about it. The last years, people into ergonomics say the keyboard must be low, with a negative tilt if possible (by using a keyboard tray). They aren't keyboard makers or experts, and will go on to advise you about your chair. Now I consider a negative tilt the opposite of that rising design. So what's truth? For me, I do like my keyboard low, for the simple reason it takes effort to lift your arms, wrists and hands. However, the negative tilt seems ill-conceived. It's an ergonomic idea, IMO, by someone who has no great knowledge as a keyboard user. The idea is your wrists aren't bend upwards and that sounds nice in theory. However, when I tried it, it became clear the reach of the top rows increases in length, which is uncomfortable, and bad ergonomics. Which is to be expected, that's why the others are sloped upwards after all. So why didn't they think of that or mention it? It's rather suspect. When I returned to a normal slope and checked how my wrists were bended, it's not the slope that bends them, but the height  of the home row from the floor. If your finger moves from the home row to touch the top row, the wrist does not bend upwards. It's just a shorter distance than a flat or negative tilted affair. Now I'm no expert and I might be spectacularly wrong, but at least I admit that. I'm just not very impressed by the current state of the field of ergonomics.. it all seems quite unscientific to me. Maybe they're just trying to sell crap.

I think there may be some general rules of ergonomics (for instance, straight wrists seems to be a universal idea, both in "curved" as well low profile designs), but there is so much room for "whatever works for you". We're all built a little differently after all.  For me, the keyboards where the two halves were moveable, never worked. Never got comfortable on those (I mean in terms of arm pain). I had a kinesis ergo model (it might have been the expensive one with the brown cherries) a while back and I wound up returning it. And I actually like my wrists curved upwards a little (I cant keep them absolutley straight, its not comfy).  The super low profile keyboards (like kensington ci73) worked surprsingly well for me given that they look nothing like the curved models. I really liked my kensington (I just sold it on amazon actually, hoping to get back to mechanical switches). The kensington is super-duper low profile. Literallly 1/4 inch off the table if that. A marvel of engineering actually.

[iMav]

About two minutes later, I noticed the keyboard was connected to brand new computer — an iMac, 2.4 GHz C2D, 2 GB RAM, 120 GB HD. Not bad, Close to my MacBook's specs, but the crappy thing is it's on 10.4.1.1., and doesn't have Spaces. Sucks butt.

Why on earth would a new iMac have Tiger in it?  I didn't think you could even load tiger on the new aluminum iMac's.

[lowpoly]

The Apple aluminum is a milestone not only designwise but also because it made scissor keys acceptable for the desktop. Scissor keys are not ergonomic though because you bottom out all the time, I believe. But for the users who type little it is perfectly fine. I'll definitely get one when they get cheaper. For storage. There's also a small wireless version, I'm sure you all have seen it already.

As for tilt, current ergonomic thinking suggests the negative tilt mentioned above, together with a higher seating position (or a lower desk). This interferes with mouse ergonomics though as you'd have to bend your wrist more there. So, negative tilt needs an integrated pointing device.

[iMav]

Bottoming out isn't too bad as long as the keys have a short throw, low resistance, and consistant key actuation.  Good examples are the new Apple keyboard, the Cherry black ML's, and the IBM M4-1's (the "buckling rubber sleeves" that I like very much).

[D-EJ915]

It's just got the same terrible chiclet keys as their laptops have, it's really sad but Sony has re-adopted them onto their ultraportable line...ugh.  I hate the feel of those keys, not the action necessarily but the keys themselves, can't stand it.

[xsphat]

Actually, it's a membrane keyboard. I took off a key and there is no scissors mechanism. There is the key, guides which snap into the corners and a metal "U" shaped pin that keeps the motion of the key in check. Then in the middle is a little rubber tit which actuates the switch. Just a prettied up membrane, which is why it feels different than the MacBook which has real scissors mechanisms.

And don't hate Apple for being pretty — that's such a high schooler's move.

[xsphat]

So considering the evidence I'd like to turn it around. Don't hate people who criticize Apple just because of that fact - it's such a high schooler's move. Now I think of it, arguing about it, even playfully (don't take it too serious), is too So I'll shamefully retreat now.

From high school to college — and on a Saturday.

The two complaints people have about Mac are always:

"The computers cost so much," when there are a lot of Windows computers out there in the same price range with comparable specs. I'm talking Sony, Lenovo and the like.

And "I don't like 'em 'cause they're purty." This one is just as stupid. Do you think of Falcon Northwest or Alienware as pretty? They are. What about HP's new netbook? That one seems to have been designed to be attractive and it is. I just think these people would be better off saying they don't like the look, because every company strives to have a look all their own, unless said company is into making knock-offs.

It's a pet peeve, that's all.

[xsphat]

And Webwit, for the record, I think I was correct the first time with, "that's such a high schooler's move." High schooler implies a high school student, the "'s" adds ownership. I didn't say high school children hate Apple, I implied it's common for high school children to hate something for being pretty. That is an everyday experience during school in this country.

[Ulysses31]

I might be crazy, but since fingertips move from row to row along an arc, as do just about all the limbs a human being has, it would make sense for a keyboard to be arranged with the buttons following a curve.  The flat apple keyboard (or any other flat keyboard for that matter) would only make sense if you had go-go-Gadget fingers.

[iMav]

I might be crazy, but since fingertips move from row to row along an arc, as do just about all the limbs a human being has, it would make sense for a keyboard to be arranged with the buttons following a curve.  The flat apple keyboard (or any other flat keyboard for that matter) would only make sense if you had go-go-Gadget fingers.

If you were to have your fingers fully extended when using the home row, that would make perfect sense.  But since (at least MY) fingers are significantly bent at two knuckles when positioned at the home row, go-go-gadget-like functionality exists to the extent that you can straighten/extend those fingers to easily reach the surrounding keys...even without a curved layout.

I slight curve is nice.  But a flat keyboard is not unusable (nor, necessarily, undesirable).

[lowpoly]

There is the key, guides which snap into the corners and a metal "U" shaped pin that keeps the motion of the key in check.

So it's more like half-scissors? That's the standard mechanism for the bigger keys on long travel keyboards, it works quite well.

[Ulysses31]

I didn't say it was unusable, rather I think it isn't the ideal design.  Sure, you can extend your fingers to reach all rows on a laptop style keyboard, but just looking at your fingers and the way they move, getting the fingertips to create circles and arcs is completely effortless.  Trying to make them trace a linear path (in mid-air at least) takes some concentration.  I'm not really very impressed with the much vaunted Apple design philosophy, I guess.

[xsphat]

...

[bhtooefr]

Can I just say that I bought an EnduraPro because my iBook's keyboard sucks that hard? Not exactly relevant, but...

[iMav]

Can I just say that I bought an EnduraPro because my iBook's keyboard sucks that hard? Not exactly relevant, but...

I find the Macbook keyboard to be one of the best laptop keyboards I've ever used.  That being said, I RARELY have hands on it...I almost always use an external keyboard.  

I owned a last-gen iBook and that keyboard really sucked.

[xsphat]

I find the Macbook keyboard to be one of the best laptop keyboards I've ever used.  That being said, I RARELY have hands on it...I almost always use an external keyboard.

I like the the MacBook keyboard enough, but not enough to use all the time or even often. Never used an iBook keyboard, but given the peripherals Apple released in that era, I have no problem believing you.

[bhtooefr]

From what I've heard, the iBook G3 keyboard is passable. If this iBook were otherwise good, I'd retrofit the G3 board. But, it's not. So, it just sits in a corner, unused except for messing with iPhoto and iTunes.

[lam47]

I used to be an apple defender based solely on OS9/x. I still think its a great OS.
However after having two laptops die. An Ibook And a g4 powerbook. Take them to the repair centre, get them back with something else broken. Be told it was my fault.
Be told that cracks in an ibook case from overheating is not covered by warranty! And then have them spill some crap on my Leather case!!!
I could go on and on about this.

I wont be buying apple ever again. Pretty or not.

[bhtooefr]

Let me ask where the laptops went... did they go to Solectron, in Memphis, TN? If so, the only answer is to get accidental damage protection, almost every brand uses that center for their laptop repair, and they're horrible. If you have accidental damage protection, it means that they won't break something or make up some rule, because they have to fix it regardless.

[lam47]

They were not sent, I was told to take them myself to Hove (not too far but a train journy I wont miss)
Where an old man took them to a back room.
The desks they used were made from ruff cut 2x4 timber!
The imac was put directly onto it scratching it up a lot!

This was the official service centre in my area.
Robert Harding computers.

[bhtooefr]

Ah, I didn't check your location. Disregard all that I said about Solectron, then.

[xsphat]

I have not had to send in any of my Apple computers for repair, and I've only used Apple. Maybe all you guys are doing it wrong or something

[iMav]

I have not had to send in any of my Apple computers for repair, and I've only used Apple. Maybe all you guys are doing it wrong or something

I've had two G5 iMac's (pre-iSight) repaired under the Repair Extension Program.  They replaced the logic board and power supplies.  I also had a Mac mini that was DOA from Amazon fixed (logic board replacement).  Everything else has been in perfect shape.  (and my repairs have all been pleasant experiences)

[D-EJ915]

I can't say anything pleasant about Apple's support, one of my teachers actually has one of their fancy warranties and their only apparent OS support is to 'reload  the system' when he went in with a problem.  Also they refuse to repair my friend's fan in his G5's power supply so he has one wired up on the outside as a solution and they also deny the watercooled ones as having any problems...I find Apple mainly delusional but meh none of this really needs to be in this thread anyway.

[xsphat]

One of my friends bought a iPod from a friend and just as he got all his music loaded on it, he bricked it by spilling something on it. He took it into the Apple Store and asked how much it would for a repair and they said it still had AppleCare on it, so they gave him a new one off the shelf and said have a nice day.

[wellington1869]

One of my friends bought a iPod from a friend and just as he got all his music loaded on it, he bricked it by spilling something on it. He took it into the Apple Store and asked how much it would for a repair and they said it still had AppleCare on it, so they gave him a new one off the shelf and said have a nice day.

This makes me want to buy used ipods on ebay, pour coke over them,  and get new ones

[xsphat]

Not wise, my friend.