DIY Topre?

[Icte]

Good evening.

Over the past few days I've seen plenty of threads where people have been making Cherry MX keyboards from scratch or by using components from older keyboards and it got me thinking - why does nobody build a topre keyboard?

I mean, I understand it's patented by that the company who makes 'em but would it really be against regulations to make a Topre keyboard with no intention of selling it?

What I have in mind is to salvage the switches from any topre keyboard and put them on a custom-made PCB that could be made from the topre keyboards PCB, or even go as far as building a capacitive PCB yourself.

What do you guys think?

[JPG]

I know pretty much nothing about topre, but I am quite sure that the main reason people don't do that is simply because it's hard to source the switches compared to mx and it's also hard to work with the capacitive aspect of the switch, so I assume that most people prefer doing customs with mx since there is already enough challenge in general that these 2 factors discourage people.

Also, some people make custom boards for themselves, but many create a project to be shared with the community and produced in some quantity. If the only way to get switches is to salvage some from rare boards, it makes it near impossible to then organize a GB for this custom.

But if you want to do it for yourself, go ahead, it's 100% sure you can do it. Probably a lot of work as always, but it's doable I am sure.

[Icte]

I know pretty much nothing about topre, but I am quite sure that the main reason people don't do that is simply because it's hard to source the switches compared to mx and it's also hard to work with the capacitive aspect of the switch, so I assume that most people prefer doing customs with mx since there is already enough challenge in general that these 2 factors discourage people.

Also, some people make custom boards for themselves, but many create a project to be shared with the community and produced in some quantity. If the only way to get switches is to salvage some from rare boards, it makes it near impossible to then organize a GB for this custom.

But if you want to do it for yourself, go ahead, it's 100% sure you can do it. Probably a lot of work as always, but it's doable I am sure.

Woah, I tbh expected lots of "No it won't work go cry in the corner" posts or something

But seriously, it has crossed my mind several times and would seem like a fun project. I've never built nor owned a mechanical keyboard (yes shame on me!) but I believe I have the necessary skills (almost a graduated electrical engineer!) to make something likes this happen..

And if I screw up I always have this community to come to the rescue!

[JPG]

There's a thread from Soarer and another guy that managed to make something with beamspring switches. Can't be much harder with Topre, but it was quite some trouble to do and not sure it's 100% working still, but you could check that out as a reference!

BTW, in GH when you want to do something nice, people will encourage you most of the time, but will give you advise when they know it will be difficult as hell. As I said, I am too n00b to tell you how hard it will be, but it's not the first time I hear about this idea. But I am sure it will be a LOT of work 

[mauri]

I know pretty much nothing about topre, but I am quite sure that the main reason people don't do that is simply because it's hard to source the switches compared to mx and it's also hard to work with the capacitive aspect of the switch, so I assume that most people prefer doing customs with mx since there is already enough challenge in general that these 2 factors discourage people.

Also, some people make custom boards for themselves, but many create a project to be shared with the community and produced in some quantity. If the only way to get switches is to salvage some from rare boards, it makes it near impossible to then organize a GB for this custom.

But if you want to do it for yourself, go ahead, it's 100% sure you can do it. Probably a lot of work as always, but it's doable I am sure.

Woah, I tbh expected lots of "No it won't work go cry in the corner" posts or something

But seriously, it has crossed my mind several times and would seem like a fun project. I've never built nor owned a mechanical keyboard (yes shame on me!) but I believe I have the necessary skills (almost a graduated electrical engineer!) to make something likes this happen..

And if I screw up I always have this community to come to the rescue!

You sir, are mistaken. Replicating a topre is heresy

Here at geekhack, topre is sacred.

[esoomenona]

Filling MX Browns with grease is the true Topre replication.

[mauri]

Filling MX Browns with grease is the true Topre replication.

Those who shall stray from the flock will be struck down

[Danule]

Filling MX Browns with grease is the true Topre replication.

i thought that was clear switches

[nubbinator]

Filling MX Browns with grease is the true Topre replication.

i thought that was clear switches

No, for that produces a superior switch to Topre.  Only a grease filled Brown can replicate the squishiness that the Topre rubber dome creates.

[JPG]

Don't turn this thread into a mx vs topre war, give op a chance!

[tjcaustin]

To be honest, I think it's just more common for topre mods to be things like making hhkbs 55g instead of a full custom pcb and whatnot.

[Icte]

Hey hey hey! No MX vs Topre flame war here! Only DIY Topre discussion!!

@JPG - You are correct, it is a hard task but it shouldn't be impossible. I have the tools necessary to make a capacitive PCB as the ones found in Topre keyboards using my university's instruments (for a fee of course). Then I'll just have to add the Topre switches, put in a controller of some sort (a Teesny will work, no?), make a case (laser-cut steel or aluminum @ university) and find/custom order the appropriate keycaps (which I believe is the hardest part?).

What do you guys say?

[esoomenona]

The truth is, and this is just something I've read before, that the capacitance and complexity of the PCB and switches has made it a bit difficult to do. I can't recall where I read it before (ripster's guide?).

@JPG - You are correct, it is a hard task but it shouldn't be impossible. I have the tools necessary to make a capacitive PCB as the ones found in Topre keyboards using my university's instruments (for a fee of course). Then I'll just have to add the Topre switches, put in a controller of some sort (a Teesny will work, no?), make a case (laser-cut steel or aluminum @ university) and find/custom order the appropriate keycaps (which I believe is the hardest part?).

By the time you're done, it would've been cheaper to just buy one, don't you think? Also, getting the switches might prove harder than you think.

[nubbinator]

Don't turn this thread into a mx vs topre war, give op a chance!

I thought the sarcasm was strong enough in our posts...

[Icte]

The truth is, and this is just something I've read before, that the capacitance and complexity of the PCB and switches has made it a bit difficult to do. I can't recall where I read it before (ripster's guide?).

@JPG - You are correct, it is a hard task but it shouldn't be impossible. I have the tools necessary to make a capacitive PCB as the ones found in Topre keyboards using my university's instruments (for a fee of course). Then I'll just have to add the Topre switches, put in a controller of some sort (a Teesny will work, no?), make a case (laser-cut steel or aluminum @ university) and find/custom order the appropriate keycaps (which I believe is the hardest part?).

By the time you're done, it would've been cheaper to just buy one, don't you think? Also, getting the switches might prove harder than you think.

I should add that I plan to make a 60% or 65% ISO layout keyboard and the only Topre keyboard that's close to the layout I want is the HHKB Pro JP. But I hate its layout

So yes, maybe it'll be expensive but at least it'll be worth it in the end! Having a fully programmable, ISO layed-out, Topre-switched, 60% or 65% keyboard on my desk with the exact things I want on it.. That's the dream.

[esoomenona]

Would it be possible to buy a Pro 2 and try to rework the layout?

[Icte]

Would it be possible to buy a Pro 2 and try to rework the layout?

Doubt it, it doesn't have an ISO Enter (which I crave for!!!) and I'd still have to change out the PCB to be compatible to the layout I want -> I'll need a new case too. But I will need the switches from a Topre keyboard that's for sure!

[tricheboars]

the bragging rights on this site would be huge if someone built a custom topre board. it would cost way more than ordering a stock topre board for sure. but oh the legendary status on this site would be worth it.

make yourself a topre ergo dox and you will become the greatest geekhacker of all time.

[Icte]

the bragging rights on this site would be huge if someone built a custom topre board. it would cost way more than ordering a stock topre board for sure. but oh the legendary status on this site would be worth it.

make yourself a topre ergo dox and you will become the greatest geekhacker of all time.

I shall be hailed as the Topre King!!

Lol but yeah hopefully it'll work! Time to plan!

[sth]

the thing with topre is that the mechanical component that we would refer to as the 'switch' is actually JUST a mechanical component while the switch actuation is a capacitive connection. you would need to create a custom PCB (or maybe set up a free floating capacitive matrix) and a plate capable of holding the plungers for this to work. it's not like cherry where you have discrete switches that include the mechanical part and the electrical part per se.
that's not to say it can't be done; just that it is a different process.

[Mamajam]

Here is a blog about a guy who took the controller out of a HHKB pro 2 and put a Teensy and then coded it to add like 6 or 7 function layers. It was pretty cool and seems actually pretty easy.

http://grumpylemming.com/blog/2012/12/24/hacking-a-happy-hacking-keyboard/

[eth0s]

I know pretty much nothing about topre, but I am quite sure that the main reason people don't do that is simply because it's hard to source the switches compared to mx and it's also hard to work with the capacitive aspect of the switch, so I assume that most people prefer doing customs with mx since there is already enough challenge in general that these 2 factors discourage people.

Also, some people make custom boards for themselves, but many create a project to be shared with the community and produced in some quantity. If the only way to get switches is to salvage some from rare boards, it makes it near impossible to then organize a GB for this custom.

But if you want to do it for yourself, go ahead, it's 100% sure you can do it. Probably a lot of work as always, but it's doable I am sure.

Woah, I tbh expected lots of "No it won't work go cry in the corner" posts or something

But seriously, it has crossed my mind several times and would seem like a fun project. I've never built nor owned a mechanical keyboard (yes shame on me!) but I believe I have the necessary skills (almost a graduated electrical engineer!) to make something likes this happen..

And if I screw up I always have this community to come to the rescue!

You sir, are mistaken. Replicating a topre is heresy

Here at geekhack, topre is sacred.

This is completely wrong.  Every Topre enthusiast has at one time or another dreamed of making his own Topre-like capacitive switch.  Every time I meet Topre loving GH'er's in person, this topic invariably comes up.  "Why can't we just make our own Topre board?"  So the more you love Topre, it seems the more you want to unlock it's secrets.  I include myself in this.

the thing with topre is that the mechanical component that we would refer to as the 'switch' is actually JUST a mechanical component while the switch actuation is a capacitive connection. you would need to create a custom PCB (or maybe set up a free floating capacitive matrix) and a plate capable of holding the plungers for this to work. it's not like cherry where you have discrete switches that include the mechanical part and the electrical part per se.
that's not to say it can't be done; just that it is a different process.

Show Image

@sth:  Thanks for the diagram and explanation!  I really liked it, and I found your post elucidating.

[REVENGE]

You only need to solve one problem: find a source to purchase Topre domes, springs, and sliders.

[damorgue]

I think the PCB is going to be your toughest issue. You will have far more demands on those traces and how to lay them out since it isn't a simple case of breaking circuits. MrInterface over at DT sold some small assemblies in his switch try bags, so getting the actual switch to work isn't that hard. Sensing it, especially when it relies on so many more factors than conductance will probably be the hard part. Good luck, I will follow your progress even though I happen to not like those switches very much.

[sth]

what would really make this work is for somebody to design an enclosed capacitive switch with pins that match a cherry MX switch. maybe even with MX style key mounts to avoid patent issues with topre?

i'm sure this idea has been discussed before... i just don't remember when. i wonder if we really could replicate a capacitive switch inside a small MX sized body? it could even be a bit bigger than an MX housing because of the gap between keys.

[Wildcard]

I was actually thinking about this the other day. It would be easier to source the cup rubber pads from a salvaged board. Making the PCB would be somewhat difficult, but what would be really difficult would be getting the capacitive components to all function correctly.

Making the plate would probably be somewhat easy with access to 3d modeling software and a high resolution 3d printer.

Imagine if someone were able to make a split ergo version with Topre!

[rowdy]

I was actually thinking about this the other day. It would be easier to source the cup rubber pads from a salvaged board. Making the PCB would be somewhat difficult, but what would be really difficult would be getting the capacitive components to all function correctly.

Making the plate would probably be somewhat easy with access to 3d modeling software and a high resolution 3d printer.

Imagine if someone were able to make a split ergo version with Topre!

tp4 would die!

[Icte]

the thing with topre is that the mechanical component that we would refer to as the 'switch' is actually JUST a mechanical component while the switch actuation is a capacitive connection. you would need to create a custom PCB (or maybe set up a free floating capacitive matrix) and a plate capable of holding the plungers for this to work. it's not like cherry where you have discrete switches that include the mechanical part and the electrical part per se.
that's not to say it can't be done; just that it is a different process.

Show Image

I think the PCB is going to be your toughest issue. You will have far more demands on those traces and how to lay them out since it isn't a simple case of breaking circuits. MrInterface over at DT sold some small assemblies in his switch try bags, so getting the actual switch to work isn't that hard. Sensing it, especially when it relies on so many more factors than conductance will probably be the hard part. Good luck, I will follow your progress even though I happen to not like those switches very much.

I agree - the PCB will be a tough nut to crack. But I doubt anyone has actually analyzed the PCB of a Topre keyboard? Which is why I'll need one first to salvage both the PCB from and the switches. That'll save me work from actually making the rubber cups with the springs and whatnot! ;)

I know pretty much nothing about topre, but I am quite sure that the main reason people don't do that is simply because it's hard to source the switches compared to mx and it's also hard to work with the capacitive aspect of the switch, so I assume that most people prefer doing customs with mx since there is already enough challenge in general that these 2 factors discourage people.

Also, some people make custom boards for themselves, but many create a project to be shared with the community and produced in some quantity. If the only way to get switches is to salvage some from rare boards, it makes it near impossible to then organize a GB for this custom.

But if you want to do it for yourself, go ahead, it's 100% sure you can do it. Probably a lot of work as always, but it's doable I am sure.

Woah, I tbh expected lots of "No it won't work go cry in the corner" posts or something :P

But seriously, it has crossed my mind several times and would seem like a fun project. I've never built nor owned a mechanical keyboard (yes shame on me!) but I believe I have the necessary skills (almost a graduated electrical engineer!) to make something likes this happen..

And if I screw up I always have this community to come to the rescue!

You sir, are mistaken. Replicating a topre is heresy

Here at geekhack, topre is sacred.

This is completely wrong.  Every Topre enthusiast has at one time or another dreamed of making his own Topre-like capacitive switch.  Every time I meet Topre loving GH'er's in person, this topic invariably comes up.  "Why can't we just make our own Topre board?"  So the more you love Topre, it seems the more you want to unlock it's secrets.  I include myself in this.

the thing with topre is that the mechanical component that we would refer to as the 'switch' is actually JUST a mechanical component while the switch actuation is a capacitive connection. you would need to create a custom PCB (or maybe set up a free floating capacitive matrix) and a plate capable of holding the plungers for this to work. it's not like cherry where you have discrete switches that include the mechanical part and the electrical part per se.
that's not to say it can't be done; just that it is a different process.

Show Image

@sth:  Thanks for the diagram and explanation!  I really liked it, and I found your post elucidating.

Just remember - nothing's impossible! If a company was successful in making the topre keyboards, then so can anyone who really wants to and has the right equipment for it!

You only need to solve one problem: find a source to purchase Topre domes, springs, and sliders.

That's why an already-assembled topre keyboard will be handy for! You know, to salvage

what would really make this work is for somebody to design an enclosed capacitive switch with pins that match a cherry MX switch. maybe even with MX style key mounts to avoid patent issues with topre?

i'm sure this idea has been discussed before... i just don't remember when. i wonder if we really could replicate a capacitive switch inside a small MX sized body? it could even be a bit bigger than an MX housing because of the gap between keys.

Not a bad idea! Maybe it is possible? But for this to work I first need a topre keyboard hands-on to see if it actually is possible!

I was actually thinking about this the other day. It would be easier to source the cup rubber pads from a salvaged board. Making the PCB would be somewhat difficult, but what would be really difficult would be getting the capacitive components to all function correctly.

Making the plate would probably be somewhat easy with access to 3d modeling software and a high resolution 3d printer.

Imagine if someone were able to make a split ergo version with Topre!

The 3D modelling is a very nice idea, I believe my school has access to one of those..

[sth]

where are you located icte?

[Icte]

where are you located icte?

Sweden!

[daerid]

what would really make this work is for somebody to design an enclosed capacitive switch with pins that match a cherry MX switch. maybe even with MX style key mounts to avoid patent issues with topre?

i'm sure this idea has been discussed before... i just don't remember when. i wonder if we really could replicate a capacitive switch inside a small MX sized body? it could even be a bit bigger than an MX housing because of the gap between keys.

If this were to happen, I'd swap out every switch in my ErgoDox in a heartbeat.

[Moosecraft]

where are you located icte?

Sweden!

What city?

[daerid]

what would really make this work is for somebody to design an enclosed capacitive switch with pins that match a cherry MX switch. maybe even with MX style key mounts to avoid patent issues with topre?

i'm sure this idea has been discussed before... i just don't remember when. i wonder if we really could replicate a capacitive switch inside a small MX sized body? it could even be a bit bigger than an MX housing because of the gap between keys.

If this were to happen, I'd swap out every switch in my ErgoDox in a heartbeat.

Although... it wouldn't be quite as simple. Since the actual switching mechanism isn't as simple as "open/closed" there'd have to be some major rework to the code in the controller

[___q]

what would really make this work is for somebody to design an enclosed capacitive switch with pins that match a cherry MX switch. maybe even with MX style key mounts to avoid patent issues with topre?

i'm sure this idea has been discussed before... i just don't remember when. i wonder if we really could replicate a capacitive switch inside a small MX sized body? it could even be a bit bigger than an MX housing because of the gap between keys.

If this were to happen, I'd swap out every switch in my ErgoDox in a heartbeat.

Although... it wouldn't be quite as simple. Since the actual switching mechanism isn't as simple as "open/closed" there'd have to be some major rework to the code in the controller

The software side of things would be trivial compared to the hardware design for such a switch, I imagine that it would be far easier (though by no means easy) and cheaper to design a custom topre-compatible PCB and plate, and get the domes/springs from stock topre boards.

Adding a casing around a Topre switch (with adequate air flow for the dome etc) while keeping the same pin layout as cherry and without running into major space issues, and then being able to manufacture these, feels like a hugely difficult task.

[Icte]

where are you located icte?

Sweden!

What city?

Stockholm!

[Icte]

what would really make this work is for somebody to design an enclosed capacitive switch with pins that match a cherry MX switch. maybe even with MX style key mounts to avoid patent issues with topre?

i'm sure this idea has been discussed before... i just don't remember when. i wonder if we really could replicate a capacitive switch inside a small MX sized body? it could even be a bit bigger than an MX housing because of the gap between keys.

If this were to happen, I'd swap out every switch in my ErgoDox in a heartbeat.

Although... it wouldn't be quite as simple. Since the actual switching mechanism isn't as simple as "open/closed" there'd have to be some major rework to the code in the controller

The software side of things would be trivial compared to the hardware design for such a switch, I imagine that it would be far easier (though by no means easy) and cheaper to design a custom topre-compatible PCB and plate, and get the domes/springs from stock topre boards.

Adding a casing around a Topre switch (with adequate air flow for the dome etc) while keeping the same pin layout as cherry and without running into major space issues, and then being able to manufacture these, feels like a hugely difficult task.

Would it really be a software problem and not a hardware? Think about it - you put the topre switch on a tiny capactivie circuitry that has pins like the ones found in Cherry MX. Hardest part would be to create the tiny PCB stand for each switch WITH pins - programming the layout should be the easy part, if you maintain the same readings and code MX boards use?

[Moosecraft]

where are you located icte?

Sweden!

What city?

Stockholm!

I'm from stockholm aswell If you need anything don't be afraid to ask

[Topre]

what would really make this work is for somebody to design an enclosed capacitive switch with pins that match a cherry MX switch. maybe even with MX style key mounts to avoid patent issues with topre?

i'm sure this idea has been discussed before... i just don't remember when. i wonder if we really could replicate a capacitive switch inside a small MX sized body? it could even be a bit bigger than an MX housing because of the gap between keys.

If this were to happen, I'd swap out every switch in my ErgoDox in a heartbeat.

Although... it wouldn't be quite as simple. Since the actual switching mechanism isn't as simple as "open/closed" there'd have to be some major rework to the code in the controller

The software side of things would be trivial compared to the hardware design for such a switch, I imagine that it would be far easier (though by no means easy) and cheaper to design a custom topre-compatible PCB and plate, and get the domes/springs from stock topre boards.

Adding a casing around a Topre switch (with adequate air flow for the dome etc) while keeping the same pin layout as cherry and without running into major space issues, and then being able to manufacture these, feels like a hugely difficult task.

Would it really be a software problem and not a hardware? Think about it - you put the topre switch on a tiny capactivie circuitry that has pins like the ones found in Cherry MX. Hardest part would be to create the tiny PCB stand for each switch WITH pins - programming the layout should be the easy part, if you maintain the same readings and code MX boards use?

It is both a software and hardware problem. Designing it may not be so hard, but who is even going to bother making these for you guys? I'm sure someone out there will be willing to, but not cheaply. Software pretty much because it's not going to plug and play with a capacitive switch going into a on/off circuit.

Your best bet to get something done would be to design your own PCB and harvest springs, domes, and switch housings from a Type Heaven. Not really sure if the Type Heaven is plate mounted, but I am pretty sure it is.

[Icte]

where are you located icte?

Sweden!

What city?

Stockholm!

I'm from stockholm aswell If you need anything don't be afraid to ask

Nice! One Topre keyboard please!

[Icte]

what would really make this work is for somebody to design an enclosed capacitive switch with pins that match a cherry MX switch. maybe even with MX style key mounts to avoid patent issues with topre?

i'm sure this idea has been discussed before... i just don't remember when. i wonder if we really could replicate a capacitive switch inside a small MX sized body? it could even be a bit bigger than an MX housing because of the gap between keys.

If this were to happen, I'd swap out every switch in my ErgoDox in a heartbeat.

Although... it wouldn't be quite as simple. Since the actual switching mechanism isn't as simple as "open/closed" there'd have to be some major rework to the code in the controller

The software side of things would be trivial compared to the hardware design for such a switch, I imagine that it would be far easier (though by no means easy) and cheaper to design a custom topre-compatible PCB and plate, and get the domes/springs from stock topre boards.

Adding a casing around a Topre switch (with adequate air flow for the dome etc) while keeping the same pin layout as cherry and without running into major space issues, and then being able to manufacture these, feels like a hugely difficult task.

Would it really be a software problem and not a hardware? Think about it - you put the topre switch on a tiny capactivie circuitry that has pins like the ones found in Cherry MX. Hardest part would be to create the tiny PCB stand for each switch WITH pins - programming the layout should be the easy part, if you maintain the same readings and code MX boards use?

It is both a software and hardware problem. Designing it may not be so hard, but who is even going to bother making these for you guys? I'm sure someone out there will be willing to, but not cheaply. Software pretty much because it's not going to plug and play with a capacitive switch going into a on/off circuit.

Your best bet to get something done would be to design your own PCB and harvest springs, domes, and switch housings from a Type Heaven. Not really sure if the Type Heaven is plate mounted, but I am pretty sure it is.

Lmao this is exactly what I'm planning to do silly! The switches will be harvested, the PCB self-made (tools at school for that), plate and case too. Software will probably be programmed onto a Teensy or an ATmega controller, have to check that up too. And voila - Topre keyboard reborn!

[Topre]

what would really make this work is for somebody to design an enclosed capacitive switch with pins that match a cherry MX switch. maybe even with MX style key mounts to avoid patent issues with topre?

i'm sure this idea has been discussed before... i just don't remember when. i wonder if we really could replicate a capacitive switch inside a small MX sized body? it could even be a bit bigger than an MX housing because of the gap between keys.

If this were to happen, I'd swap out every switch in my ErgoDox in a heartbeat.

Although... it wouldn't be quite as simple. Since the actual switching mechanism isn't as simple as "open/closed" there'd have to be some major rework to the code in the controller

The software side of things would be trivial compared to the hardware design for such a switch, I imagine that it would be far easier (though by no means easy) and cheaper to design a custom topre-compatible PCB and plate, and get the domes/springs from stock topre boards.

Adding a casing around a Topre switch (with adequate air flow for the dome etc) while keeping the same pin layout as cherry and without running into major space issues, and then being able to manufacture these, feels like a hugely difficult task.

Would it really be a software problem and not a hardware? Think about it - you put the topre switch on a tiny capactivie circuitry that has pins like the ones found in Cherry MX. Hardest part would be to create the tiny PCB stand for each switch WITH pins - programming the layout should be the easy part, if you maintain the same readings and code MX boards use?

It is both a software and hardware problem. Designing it may not be so hard, but who is even going to bother making these for you guys? I'm sure someone out there will be willing to, but not cheaply. Software pretty much because it's not going to plug and play with a capacitive switch going into a on/off circuit.

Your best bet to get something done would be to design your own PCB and harvest springs, domes, and switch housings from a Type Heaven. Not really sure if the Type Heaven is plate mounted, but I am pretty sure it is.

Lmao this is exactly what I'm planning to do silly! The switches will be harvested, the PCB self-made (tools at school for that), plate and case too. Software will probably be programmed onto a Teensy or an ATmega controller, have to check that up too. And voila - Topre keyboard reborn!

I forgot you didn't live in the United States. A Realforce keyboard will most likely be cheaper for you, and it's going to be plate mounted with PBT keycaps for sure. You can also just use the controller of the Realforce, if you don't need the keyboard to be reprogrammable. Pretty much all that will need to be done is a bit of PCB tracing, making a new PCB, plate, case for it. Of course that's up to you though.

[Moosecraft]

I wish I had a topre board to experiment with

[Icte]

what would really make this work is for somebody to design an enclosed capacitive switch with pins that match a cherry MX switch. maybe even with MX style key mounts to avoid patent issues with topre?

i'm sure this idea has been discussed before... i just don't remember when. i wonder if we really could replicate a capacitive switch inside a small MX sized body? it could even be a bit bigger than an MX housing because of the gap between keys.

If this were to happen, I'd swap out every switch in my ErgoDox in a heartbeat.

Although... it wouldn't be quite as simple. Since the actual switching mechanism isn't as simple as "open/closed" there'd have to be some major rework to the code in the controller

The software side of things would be trivial compared to the hardware design for such a switch, I imagine that it would be far easier (though by no means easy) and cheaper to design a custom topre-compatible PCB and plate, and get the domes/springs from stock topre boards.

Adding a casing around a Topre switch (with adequate air flow for the dome etc) while keeping the same pin layout as cherry and without running into major space issues, and then being able to manufacture these, feels like a hugely difficult task.

Would it really be a software problem and not a hardware? Think about it - you put the topre switch on a tiny capactivie circuitry that has pins like the ones found in Cherry MX. Hardest part would be to create the tiny PCB stand for each switch WITH pins - programming the layout should be the easy part, if you maintain the same readings and code MX boards use?

It is both a software and hardware problem. Designing it may not be so hard, but who is even going to bother making these for you guys? I'm sure someone out there will be willing to, but not cheaply. Software pretty much because it's not going to plug and play with a capacitive switch going into a on/off circuit.

Your best bet to get something done would be to design your own PCB and harvest springs, domes, and switch housings from a Type Heaven. Not really sure if the Type Heaven is plate mounted, but I am pretty sure it is.

Lmao this is exactly what I'm planning to do silly! The switches will be harvested, the PCB self-made (tools at school for that), plate and case too. Software will probably be programmed onto a Teensy or an ATmega controller, have to check that up too. And voila - Topre keyboard reborn!

I forgot you didn't live in the United States. A Realforce keyboard will most likely be cheaper for you, and it's going to be plate mounted with PBT keycaps for sure. You can also just use the controller of the Realforce, if you don't need the keyboard to be reprogrammable. Pretty much all that will need to be done is a bit of PCB tracing, making a new PCB, plate, case for it. Of course that's up to you though.

Not a bad idea actually! I was mostly thinking of HHKB but you're right - Realforce would be cheaper AND it does have more switches, in case I accidently break some
But is there any difference between the HHKB and Realforce switches? Like in feel etc because I keep hearing the HHKB feels better, but is it because it has case-mounted switches?

[damorgue]

what would really make this work is for somebody to design an enclosed capacitive switch with pins that match a cherry MX switch. maybe even with MX style key mounts to avoid patent issues with topre?

i'm sure this idea has been discussed before... i just don't remember when. i wonder if we really could replicate a capacitive switch inside a small MX sized body? it could even be a bit bigger than an MX housing because of the gap between keys.

If this were to happen, I'd swap out every switch in my ErgoDox in a heartbeat.

Although... it wouldn't be quite as simple. Since the actual switching mechanism isn't as simple as "open/closed" there'd have to be some major rework to the code in the controller

The software side of things would be trivial compared to the hardware design for such a switch, I imagine that it would be far easier (though by no means easy) and cheaper to design a custom topre-compatible PCB and plate, and get the domes/springs from stock topre boards.

Adding a casing around a Topre switch (with adequate air flow for the dome etc) while keeping the same pin layout as cherry and without running into major space issues, and then being able to manufacture these, feels like a hugely difficult task.

Would it really be a software problem and not a hardware? Think about it - you put the topre switch on a tiny capactivie circuitry that has pins like the ones found in Cherry MX. Hardest part would be to create the tiny PCB stand for each switch WITH pins - programming the layout should be the easy part, if you maintain the same readings and code MX boards use?

It is both a software and hardware problem. Designing it may not be so hard, but who is even going to bother making these for you guys? I'm sure someone out there will be willing to, but not cheaply. Software pretty much because it's not going to plug and play with a capacitive switch going into a on/off circuit.

Your best bet to get something done would be to design your own PCB and harvest springs, domes, and switch housings from a Type Heaven. Not really sure if the Type Heaven is plate mounted, but I am pretty sure it is.

Lmao this is exactly what I'm planning to do silly! The switches will be harvested, the PCB self-made (tools at school for that), plate and case too. Software will probably be programmed onto a Teensy or an ATmega controller, have to check that up too. And voila - Topre keyboard reborn!

I forgot you didn't live in the United States. A Realforce keyboard will most likely be cheaper for you, and it's going to be plate mounted with PBT keycaps for sure. You can also just use the controller of the Realforce, if you don't need the keyboard to be reprogrammable. Pretty much all that will need to be done is a bit of PCB tracing, making a new PCB, plate, case for it. Of course that's up to you though.

Not a bad idea actually! I was mostly thinking of HHKB but you're right - Realforce would be cheaper AND it does have more switches, in case I accidently break some
But is there any difference between the HHKB and Realforce switches? Like in feel etc because I keep hearing the HHKB feels better, but is it because it has case-mounted switches?

...and the award for longest quote chain goes to....drumroll...

Check out the switch try bag from MrInterface as cutting apart a Realforce ha been done several times in the past. Perhaps there is something to learn from them. There was yet another project which aimed to create Topre keychains from cut up Realforces.

[Icte]

what would really make this work is for somebody to design an enclosed capacitive switch with pins that match a cherry MX switch. maybe even with MX style key mounts to avoid patent issues with topre?

i'm sure this idea has been discussed before... i just don't remember when. i wonder if we really could replicate a capacitive switch inside a small MX sized body? it could even be a bit bigger than an MX housing because of the gap between keys.

If this were to happen, I'd swap out every switch in my ErgoDox in a heartbeat.

Although... it wouldn't be quite as simple. Since the actual switching mechanism isn't as simple as "open/closed" there'd have to be some major rework to the code in the controller

The software side of things would be trivial compared to the hardware design for such a switch, I imagine that it would be far easier (though by no means easy) and cheaper to design a custom topre-compatible PCB and plate, and get the domes/springs from stock topre boards.

Adding a casing around a Topre switch (with adequate air flow for the dome etc) while keeping the same pin layout as cherry and without running into major space issues, and then being able to manufacture these, feels like a hugely difficult task.

Would it really be a software problem and not a hardware? Think about it - you put the topre switch on a tiny capactivie circuitry that has pins like the ones found in Cherry MX. Hardest part would be to create the tiny PCB stand for each switch WITH pins - programming the layout should be the easy part, if you maintain the same readings and code MX boards use?

It is both a software and hardware problem. Designing it may not be so hard, but who is even going to bother making these for you guys? I'm sure someone out there will be willing to, but not cheaply. Software pretty much because it's not going to plug and play with a capacitive switch going into a on/off circuit.

Your best bet to get something done would be to design your own PCB and harvest springs, domes, and switch housings from a Type Heaven. Not really sure if the Type Heaven is plate mounted, but I am pretty sure it is.

Lmao this is exactly what I'm planning to do silly! The switches will be harvested, the PCB self-made (tools at school for that), plate and case too. Software will probably be programmed onto a Teensy or an ATmega controller, have to check that up too. And voila - Topre keyboard reborn!

I forgot you didn't live in the United States. A Realforce keyboard will most likely be cheaper for you, and it's going to be plate mounted with PBT keycaps for sure. You can also just use the controller of the Realforce, if you don't need the keyboard to be reprogrammable. Pretty much all that will need to be done is a bit of PCB tracing, making a new PCB, plate, case for it. Of course that's up to you though.

Not a bad idea actually! I was mostly thinking of HHKB but you're right - Realforce would be cheaper AND it does have more switches, in case I accidently break some
But is there any difference between the HHKB and Realforce switches? Like in feel etc because I keep hearing the HHKB feels better, but is it because it has case-mounted switches?

...and the award for longest quote chain goes to....drumroll...

Check out the switch try bag from MrInterface as cutting apart a Realforce ha been done several times in the past. Perhaps there is something to learn from them. There was yet another project which aimed to create Topre keychains from cut up Realforces.

Shh!! Topre-lovers can hear you! All this cutting up keyboards will make 'em go bananas!

But interesting, if it's cheap enough I might buy a keychain! Any link to Topre keychain sellers??

Quote chain continuation! Gonna break Guiness World Record in quoting wooot!!

[damorgue]

Co-co-combo breaker

Anyways, here is one thread with attempts at cutting up Realforces.

Here is MrInterface's try out switches

[___q]

what would really make this work is for somebody to design an enclosed capacitive switch with pins that match a cherry MX switch. maybe even with MX style key mounts to avoid patent issues with topre?

i'm sure this idea has been discussed before... i just don't remember when. i wonder if we really could replicate a capacitive switch inside a small MX sized body? it could even be a bit bigger than an MX housing because of the gap between keys.

If this were to happen, I'd swap out every switch in my ErgoDox in a heartbeat.

Although... it wouldn't be quite as simple. Since the actual switching mechanism isn't as simple as "open/closed" there'd have to be some major rework to the code in the controller

The software side of things would be trivial compared to the hardware design for such a switch, I imagine that it would be far easier (though by no means easy) and cheaper to design a custom topre-compatible PCB and plate, and get the domes/springs from stock topre boards.

Adding a casing around a Topre switch (with adequate air flow for the dome etc) while keeping the same pin layout as cherry and without running into major space issues, and then being able to manufacture these, feels like a hugely difficult task.

Would it really be a software problem and not a hardware? Think about it - you put the topre switch on a tiny capactivie circuitry that has pins like the ones found in Cherry MX. Hardest part would be to create the tiny PCB stand for each switch WITH pins - programming the layout should be the easy part, if you maintain the same readings and code MX boards use?

Yes, that's exactly what I was trying to say (that hardware would be much more difficult than software).

[Icte]

Co-co-combo breaker

Anyways, here is one thread with attempts at cutting up Realforces.

Here is MrInterface's try out switches

NOOOO!! But thanks, pricey but very interesting..!

what would really make this work is for somebody to design an enclosed capacitive switch with pins that match a cherry MX switch. maybe even with MX style key mounts to avoid patent issues with topre?

i'm sure this idea has been discussed before... i just don't remember when. i wonder if we really could replicate a capacitive switch inside a small MX sized body? it could even be a bit bigger than an MX housing because of the gap between keys.

If this were to happen, I'd swap out every switch in my ErgoDox in a heartbeat.

Although... it wouldn't be quite as simple. Since the actual switching mechanism isn't as simple as "open/closed" there'd have to be some major rework to the code in the controller

The software side of things would be trivial compared to the hardware design for such a switch, I imagine that it would be far easier (though by no means easy) and cheaper to design a custom topre-compatible PCB and plate, and get the domes/springs from stock topre boards.

Adding a casing around a Topre switch (with adequate air flow for the dome etc) while keeping the same pin layout as cherry and without running into major space issues, and then being able to manufacture these, feels like a hugely difficult task.

Would it really be a software problem and not a hardware? Think about it - you put the topre switch on a tiny capactivie circuitry that has pins like the ones found in Cherry MX. Hardest part would be to create the tiny PCB stand for each switch WITH pins - programming the layout should be the easy part, if you maintain the same readings and code MX boards use?

Yes, that's exactly what I was trying to say (that hardware would be much more difficult than software).

Hm there is no guide on the interwebz that explains how the PCB actually works? Classified maybe?

[___q]

Hm there is no guide on the interwebz that explains how the PCB actually works? Classified maybe?

Making PCBs to detect capacitance in this way is very easy -- you just put some copper on the board and measure the capacitance of it, physics takes care of the rest.  See the "Basic Capacitive Touch Review" part of this document: http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/AppNotes/00001334B.pdf

The actual mechanical design and fabrication of a switch (the housing/dome/plunger/pcb/pins/what-have-you) under the space constraints while keeping the feel of topre switches would be exceedingly hard, though.

[REVENGE]

You only need to solve one problem: find a source to purchase Topre domes, springs, and sliders.

That's why an already-assembled topre keyboard will be handy for! You know, to salvage

Nice! I didn't realize there were so many folks ready to burn money salvage parts from Topre boards!
(I am aware of Crick-Cracks, KRAYMACKs, etc etc)