Introducing a 60% layout, 100% standard keycaps, with arrows always accessible

[spiceBar]

In this thread I introduce a 60% layout that fulfills the following constraints:


- Must be 60% (it's the "typewriter" cluster of a PC keyboard)
- Must have a standard PC layout: all the keycaps must have standard sizes
- Has an arrow cluster always directly accessible (no Poker-like mode switching)
- Doesn't mess with the Shift keys so touch-typing is still possible
- Has all the other missing keys (F1…F12, PrtScr, ScrlLck, Pause/Break…) accessible through a Fn layer


Here is the layout:



(it's not a chicklet keyboard, imagine Cherry keycaps here)

One key had to be moved, that's the compromise. It turns out that this key is one that is not too frequently used. This key is [/] and is now above the Enter key. The question mark is available by shifting it. [\] and [|] are available on the same key in combination with the Fn key. From the statistics I have collected, "?"+"\"+"|" account for 0.31% of the keystrokes in the context of programming, which is the worst case (if you type English text, it's around 0.1%).


For reference, here is a standard PC layout (the "typewriter" cluster on a full board or TKL):



IMPORTANT: Notice that in the layout I'm suggesting, all the keys have the same size as on the standard keyboard.


Here is the complete layout including the Fn layer. Between parenthesis you have the functions accessible with the Fn key (which can be relocated):



Why this layout?

- To build a 60% keyboard that has always accessible arrows and yet uses standard keycaps, because no commercially available keyboard does this.

- To modify existing standard 60% boards (Poker maybe?) so your arrow keys are always accessible (they are not at this time on the Poker, you need to switch to a different mode to get the arrows, and you lose the right Shift in the process).


I'm aware I may have missed something that would somehow break the usability of this layout. So now I turn to the community for a reality check.

So... What do you think about this layout?

[dante]

I'd like to see a 60% that doesn't require movement off the homerow for all your needs.  Instead of using a "FN" key - how about a pedal that can be connected to the board that will activate additional layers?

[spiceBar]

I'd like to see a 60% that doesn't require movement off the homerow for all your needs.  Instead of using a "FN" key - how about a pedal that can be connected to the board that will activate additional layers?

I'm just suggesting a layout, something you can use on a keyboard, I'm not suggesting a new device...

[___q]

I mean, this certainly wouldn't work for me -- I use arrow keys rarely enough that putting them under a fn layer is fine, and I program a lot so /\?| are kind of important keys. I also use right-alt and win at times.

But that doesn't really matter -- this is all software, so if it would work for you, then program it into whatever programmable 60% you want and go to town

[Hypersphere]

Interesting layout. Has the UpArrow replaced the front slash/question mark key? If so, how do you access these? The spacebar has also been reduced in size -- not a problem for me with respect to typing, but it could be a problem when it comes to replacing keycaps.

[spiceBar]

Interesting layout. Has the UpArrow replaced the front slash/question mark key? If so, how do you access these? The spacebar has also been reduced in size -- not a problem for me with respect to typing, but it could be a problem when it comes to replacing keycaps.

The up arrow has indeed replaced slash. The slash and question mark are above the Enter key, where the backslash used to be. Backslash is done using Fn and this key.

From the statistic I have been able to collect, the total usage frequency of / ? \ and | cumulated is between 0.5 and 2% depending on what kind of text you type. The highest is 2% when typing C-like code (C, Java, C#, Objective-C, ...).

The spacebar has NOT been reduced. There is NO change in the size of any key. Maybe you should read my post again... 

[CPTBadAss]

I'm a little confused as to what you're proposing. This is just the Pure function layer. On my Pure, you can toggle those arrow keys in that manner.

[spiceBar]

I'm a little confused as to what you're proposing. This is just the Pure function layer. On my Pure, you can toggle those arrow keys in that manner.

No it's not the Pure layer at all.

1. On the pure, when you have access to the arrows, you cannot access the right Shift+Win+Menu+Ctrl anymore. Losing the right Shift is especially annoying. With my layout you never lose the right Shift.
2. There is no need to toggle access to the arrows in my layout. They are always accessible.

I guess my OP is too long. Looks like nobody reads it. 

[TheSoulhunter]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37570.msg955198#msg955198

[CPTBadAss]

Your OP is horribly confusing. It's not that it's long, it's that it seems to have no clear statement or purpose. Plus the picture downloads don't help. I've read it three times and it makes no sense to me. And the title makes no sense since the Poker X and Poker 2 uses standard keycaps.

[spiceBar]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37570.msg955198#msg955198

Almost...

We have been following the same idea: the right Shift key must not be changed.

But in your layout the arrows must be accessed by a kind of Fn key, which I wanted to avoid.

In the layout I'm suggesting, the arrow keys are always accessible, like on a TKL.

So with the arrows and the Fn key you get Home/End/PgUp/PgDn.

[spiceBar]

Your OP is horribly confusing. It's not that it's long, it's that it seems to have no clear statement or purpose. Plus the picture downloads don't help. I've read it three times and it makes no sense to me. And the title makes no sense since the Poker X and Poker 2 uses standard keycaps.

OK I'm going to edit it and make the images thumbnails. It's just that I wanted to know how many people were actually looking at them.

[spiceBar]

Your OP is horribly confusing. It's not that it's long, it's that it seems to have no clear statement or purpose. Plus the picture downloads don't help. I've read it three times and it makes no sense to me. And the title makes no sense since the Poker X and Poker 2 uses standard keycaps.

OP edited. I hope it's better now.

[daerid]

Alters the behavior of "\|" key and no "/?" key, no dice.

[Obakemono]

Alters the behavior of "\|" key and no "/?" key, no dice.

^This

Sorry but / is like tons TONS more important than any arrow key.

Really, directories in unix like operating systems, you can't just change that key.

Seriously "/" > than any arrow, any day of the week.

[spiceBar]

I'm not sure if I read correctly but you guys think that there is no / ? in this layout?

/ is accessible directly, it has just been moved. ? is accessible by shifting it, as usual.

From the statistics I have been able to collect, the frequency of / ? \ and | cumulated is between 0.5 and 2%. The worst case is 2% for source code.

So in the worst case, 2% of your keystrokes are affected.

Please note that / accounts for almost all of these 2% and that it is still accessible directly.

I'm a Linux user and I don't have to type absolute paths so often that moving the slash key has been disturbing...

But no problem. Thank you guys for giving your opinion.

I would still like to hear from other people...


Edit: I think I'm going to mention in my OP that [/] has not been removed... Just in case...

[tbc]

personally, I'm not especially fond of layouts that affect the alphasnum (except for the tilde key - i like never use that).  As a laptop user for many years, I've learned not to use the bottom right modifiers (i like consistency between my desktop keyboard and my laptop) and would like to use THOSE as the arrow keys.

please don't take this as harsh criticism; I just want to help by contributing feedback.

[spiceBar]

personally, I'm not especially fond of layouts that affect the alphasnum (except for the tilde key - i like never use that).  As a laptop user for many years, I've learned not to use the bottom right modifiers (i like consistency between my desktop keyboard and my laptop) and would like to use THOSE as the arrow keys.

please don't take this as harsh criticism; I just want to help by contributing feedback.

Thank you for contributing in a thoughtful way.

I actually feel the same about the right modifiers, and my first attempts at this layout (I designed 6 layouts and I tried them before posting this one) started by attacking this cluster.

The Poker keyboards indeed use Shift+Win+Menu+Ctrl as an inverted T arrow cluster.

However the right Shift is important for touch-typing and is used a lot in this case. So I tried to find a way to allow touch-typing and it occurred to me that you can do so even with a dedicated inverted T arrow cluster in the area.

This comes only at the price of relocating the / key. I say "only" because after looking at the statistics I realized that this key is used much less than I thought. But apparently this is where I'm getting in trouble because people think, as I did, that they use this key often. Or that using another one (a bigger one BTW) is going to be difficult.

[ohgodpleaseno]

I seriously love the concept of this keyboard. I have a muscle memory limitation of right shift only and when doing programming work I heavily rely on the arrow keys. I actually bought a Leopold FC660 to satisfy this requirement as best I could, but it actually has large number of very non-standard caps (like the spacebar with unique stem locations and size). I would totally buy this 60%.

[spiceBar]

I seriously love the concept of this keyboard. I have a muscle memory limitation of right shift only and when doing programming work I heavily rely on the arrow keys. I actually bought a Leopold FC660 to satisfy this requirement as best I could, but it actually has large number of very non-standard caps (like the spacebar with unique stem locations and size). I would totally buy this 60%.

It's funny because I have got my FC660C just two days ago and I'm replying on it right now.

The FC660C/M was part of my thoughts when I designed this layout. I was considering purchasing a hand-made 22Mini-EX, which is a standard PC layout plus one column of keys on the right side, because I thought that the way the Leopold FC660C/M does it is the only way to have dedicated arrows: you shorten the Shift, put Left/Up/Dowm in the bottom corner and you need one more column for the right arrow.

But it's not a 60% anymore, and this column is there only because of the right arrow. You then populate it with more keys, but you still know why this column is there. And indeed, many people are turned off by the FC660C/M because of the area at the right of the keyboard, which says: "I'm sorry I'm there only because of the arrow, so I give you two more useless keys. I'm the space-waster of this space-saver, forgive me."

I love my FC660C, but I think the layout I'm suggesting may be an alternate suitable way to solve the problem the FC660C/M has been designed to solve.

[daerid]

I know that the / key is used fairly infrequently. But it's important enough to me that moving it would be a problem in a 60% layout.

Honestly, as far as the smaller layouts are concerned, the FC660 layout is the best ice come across. The space wasted by the right hand side is minimal, and I actually enjoy having insert and delete isolated.

But that's the beauty of designing your own: you get to pick what works for you.

[jameslr]

I really like your layout - the only things I would change are this:

For me, I would get rid of right shift (I don't ever use both shifts), slide over arrow keys, put Fn next to spacebar and caps lock to the right of where "up" arrow would then be. That way you could include a / key since unix / linux users use it a lot. Are the function layer mappings for the cursor keys the movement bank keys (Pg Dwn, Pg Up, Home, End)? If so I think that's a great idea. If not then I would definitely program mine to do that.

[spiceBar]

I really like your layout - the only things I would change are this:

For me, I would get rid of right shift (I don't ever use both shifts), slide over arrow keys, put Fn next to spacebar and caps lock to the right of where "up" arrow would then be. That way you could include a / key since unix / linux users use it a lot. Are the function layer mappings for the cursor keys the movement bank keys (Pg Dwn, Pg Up, Home, End)? If so I think that's a great idea. If not then I would definitely program mine to do that.

One of the constraints was to keep both Shifts untouched, in order to allow touch-typing. Another constraint was to keep the same key sizes. So messing with the right Shift is not part of the plan. 

The third picture I have posted answers your question about Home/End/PgUp/PgDn. The answer is: yes, you do them with Fn-arrow.

[daerid]

Yeah, I couldn't do without the right shift. Use that thing all the time.

[Moosecraft]

You could do this to a GH60 no?

[PepperPanda]

Yeah I'm pretty sure you can do this on the GH60 maybe the TMK firmware. Set it up so that whenever you press shift it changes to another layer. On the separate layer keep the original keymap except change the up arrow to / and on shift release go back to the original layer.

Only problem I see with this layout is what if I want to use shift + arrow up to highlight some line.

[spiceBar]

Yeah I'm pretty sure you can do this on the GH60 maybe the TMK firmware. Set it up so that whenever you press shift it changes to another layer. On the separate layer keep the original keymap except change the up arrow to / and on shift release go back to the original layer.

Only problem I see with this layout is what if I want to use shift + arrow up to highlight some line.

...Which is why the slash has been moved so the arrows are real arrows allowing also to select text. With Fn they do Home/End/PgUp/PgDn, and you can even shift those to select to the start of line, end of line, page by page...

I guess it can be done easily on a GH60. I know it can be done on a 2TU which has a similar way to define Fn layouts.

[quadibloc]

Although that keyboard might not work for me, I think that it's a very ingenious design, and a good compromise.

My personal preference, though, would be to leave ?/ alone, and have the four cursor keys in a row - put the AltGr key up in place of |\. That would overcome some of the most common objections to your design.

[PepperPanda]

Woops my bad misread what you said earlier. Also where would the \| key be on different layer?

[spiceBar]

Although that keyboard might not work for me, I think that it's a very ingenious design, and a good compromise.

My personal preference, though, would be to leave ?/ alone, and have the four cursor keys in a row - put the AltGr key up in place of |\. That would overcome some of the most common objections to your design.

I have tried 6 designs including this one. Two of them had the arrows in line, and it was a nightmare to use. Also, it consumed an additional modifier in the bottom row and it meant no AltGr (right Alt) which is a problem for many languages.

[spiceBar]

Woops my bad misread what you said earlier. Also where would the \| key be on different layer?

Yes. It's on the third picture I have posted in my OP. Fn + the key above Enter to get backslash. Shift that to get |

[ohgodpleaseno]

How likely is it that this keyboard will become a real thing? I'm not really familiar with custom keyboard creation but I'm very curious what kind of support would be needed to start some kind of development?

[spiceBar]

How likely is it that this keyboard will become a real thing? I'm not really familiar with custom keyboard creation but I'm very curious what kind of support would be needed to start some kind of development?

The idea is not to create a new keyboard. There are already keyboards that could use this layout directly, and some that could use it after modding (Poker and Poker 2 for example).

I wanted to share this layout because I think it solves several problems all at once with minimal inconvenience.

The fact that it uses a standard key layout means that many people could start using it if they wish, and that some keyboard companies could produce it with minimal design costs. For example Vortex can re-use almost all of the Poker hardware to create a keyboard with this layout. They just need to provide slightly different keycaps printings and a different firmware.

Also, because it's "just" a layout, it can be simulated with a driver and you can test the layout on a standard PC keyboard, or on a TKL. Then you can really tell if the only design compromise of the layout is a problem or not. It is not possible to do that with a non-standard key layout: you cannot simulate a Minila, a Tex Beetle or a Pure Pro on a standard keyboard. But with the layout I am suggesting, you can.

[gargintua]

i love designing layouts
and i think this is a genious layout 


i never use the right modifiers and
on some 60% boards the arrow layout on the wasd would kinda suck

all i need now is a poker?
and some sort of chip? or?

maybe ill just wait for gh60

[divito]

I prefer:



...based on your idea, though eliminating /? is just too severe. Didn't alter any keys other than making R-Shift's additional functionality through a function layer.

Only created it based on the thread, as I was playing around with creating something slightly larger than 60%...I think it works fairly well, and you can add the function layer for specific needs.

This:



...is what I'd like made and produced for myself (which where my finger happens to R-Shift, this wouldn't affect the new size; imagine some people are the same way). My biggest reason against 60% is the elimination or strange alterations affecting the arrow keys, and 6-keys, which I use often (or in the case of this thread, eliminating the /? key and having no 6-key outside of layers. This would allow a smaller profile, while still maintaining TKL functionality. When I become rich enough, I'd like to make this custom for myself, and any others who want it.

[spiceBar]

i love designing layouts
and i think this is a genious layout 


i never use the right modifiers and
on some 60% boards the arrow layout on the wasd would kinda suck

all i need now is a poker?
and some sort of chip? or?

maybe ill just wait for gh60

As a proof of concept, I am going to mod a Poker to use this layout. I have ordered it, I'm waiting for it now.

I am going to try on a Poker because it's the cheapest 60% keyboard that has a standard layout (like the alpha block on a regular keyboard).

The mod will be part hardware (I need to move the Fn key somewhere else because it interferes with the inverted-T arrows block) and part software (to remap some keys). By software I mean a Mac and Linux driver, because the Poker cannot be reprogrammed.

It is just a way to test the concept. I want to be able to use it for a while so I can find out if there is some unexpected problem. Actually I have postedd this layout also to get some input. Maybe I have overlooked something? Who knows?

Also, people who have a programmable keyboard can try it as well.

Finally, my plan is to order a custom-made keyboard with this layout. This time, no driver will be needed, the layout will be programmed in the keyboard itself.

[spiceBar]

I prefer: this. Didn't alter any keys other than shift size (which where my finger happens to hit it, is unaffected; I imagine some people are the same way), and simply adds arrow keys for those so inclined.

Only created based on the thread, as I was playing around with creating something slightly larger than 60%...I think it works fairly well, and you can add the function layer for specific needs.

EDIT: you have edited your post. What I write below is for your second layout. Your first layout is the Poker layout, which is not touch-typing friendly, as it changes the function of the right Shift key.

Your second layout is not a 60%, and is not what I call a "standard" layout. Where are you going to find a keycap for your right Shift? Imagine you want to put a nice rainbow keycaps set on your keyboard, your right Shift will not be part of the set. So no rainbow keycaps for you, or rainbow keycaps but an ugly right Shift. Maybe you don't care, but many people want to be able change their keycaps. A standard layout allows you to use any standard set of keycaps on your keyboard.

Look, it's quite easy to come up with nice layouts like yours if you give up on the "standard keycaps" idea.

But with your layout you cannot use these keycaps sets (just a few examples):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KBC-White-Blank-Thick-PBT-104-Keyset-Cherry-MX-Keycaps-/230957623025?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c625a6f1
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KBC-Grey-Blank-Thick-PBT-104-Keyset-Cherry-MX-Keycaps-/330950287238?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0e2c9f86
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KBC-Blue-Blank-Thick-PBT-104-Keyset-Cherry-MX-Keycaps-/330950281295?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0e2c884f


The constraint I have set for myself is to be able to use standard keycaps sets.

[divito]

I apologize for you seeing my initial post before my modification.

I'm not sure what you mean by "not touch-typing friendly." As usage I'm used to, the act of hitting Win+shortcut would be no different than utilizing Fn+R-Shift for up arrow. Be a simple index finger+ring finger all while maintaining a standard layout.

Edit - and I didn't mean you "eliminated" the /? key, but you did move it...my touch-typing would be affected given it's changed location.

[spiceBar]

I apologize for you seeing my initial post before my modification.

And please note that I did NOT eliminate / ?

It's on the backslash key now.

If you can do it without moving / ?, and without killing the right Shift, I'm very interested.

[spiceBar]

I apologize for you seeing my initial post before my modification.

I'm not sure what you mean by "not touch-typing friendly." As usage I'm used to, the act of hitting Win+shortcut would be no different than utilizing Fn+R-Shift for up arrow. Be a simple index finger+ring finger all while maintaining a standard layout.

Edit - and I didn't mean "eliminate" the /? key...but my touch-typing would be affected given it's changed location.

Touch typing-friendly = you don't kill the right Shift.

[spiceBar]

As usage I'm used to, the act of hitting Win+shortcut would be no different than utilizing Fn+R-Shift for up arrow. Be a simple index finger+ring finger all while maintaining a standard layout.

And now you need another modifier to do PgUp...

It's in the title: "arrows always accessible".

If you are willing to have the arrows in the Fn layer, there are a gazillion ways to do it. I don't want to press any additional key to get the arrows. We are already chording a lot in combination with the arrows (Shift, Ctrl, Ctrl+Shift, maybe Alt also) and I think that having the arrows always accessible is very nice.

[divito]

I apologize for you seeing my initial post before my modification.

I'm not sure what you mean by "not touch-typing friendly." As usage I'm used to, the act of hitting Win+shortcut would be no different than utilizing Fn+R-Shift for up arrow. Be a simple index finger+ring finger all while maintaining a standard layout.

Edit - and I didn't mean "eliminate" the /? key...but my touch-typing would be affected given it's changed location.

Touch typing-friendly = you don't kill the right Shift.

I find moving a standard key (/?) based on years of computer use a lot less touch-typing friendly than adding a secondary function to R-Shift while using a function key. :s But I see your point, and the fact that I overlooked your original statement in the OP.

The only other option I can think of that may please us both, is having traditional Caps-Lock as Fn, and the bottom four R-modifiers as < ^ v > . Of course, not being inverted T layout can be problematic, but it's the closest to maintaining Poker-style layout, keeping arrows always accessible, and not altering much else.

[spiceBar]

I apologize for you seeing my initial post before my modification.

I'm not sure what you mean by "not touch-typing friendly." As usage I'm used to, the act of hitting Win+shortcut would be no different than utilizing Fn+R-Shift for up arrow. Be a simple index finger+ring finger all while maintaining a standard layout.

Edit - and I didn't mean "eliminate" the /? key...but my touch-typing would be affected given it's changed location.

Touch typing-friendly = you don't kill the right Shift.

I find moving a standard key (/?) based on years of computer use a lot less touch-typing friendly than adding a secondary function to R-Shift while using a function key. :s But I see your point, and the fact that I overlooked your original statement in the OP.

The only other option I can think of that may please us both, is having traditional Caps-Lock as Fn, and the bottom four R-modifiers as < ^ v > . Of course, not being inverted T layout can be problematic, but it's the closest to maintaining Poker-style layout, keeping arrows always accessible, and not altering much else.

Yes you are right, and I have tried this layout.

There are two problems with it:
- it's hard to do without the inverted-T arrows block. I have really tried to get used to it, but I couldn't. I think many people would have the same problem, because on most keyboards you have this inverted-T block. If you only ever use your keyboard with your layout, you are fine. As soon as you need to use another computer, you feel the pain. That's what happened to me when I tried this layout with the arrows in a line (I have actually tried 2 layouts like that).
- Half of the world need a right Alt (AltGr), which is used to type symbols that are not accessible directly. The Euro symbol for example, or all the accentuated characters in the european languages. I know I need AltGr...

[divito]

Yes you are right, and I have tried this layout.

There are two problems with it:
- it's hard to do without the inverted-T arrows block. I have really tried to get used to it, but I couldn't. I think many people would have the same problem, because on most keyboards you have this inverted-T block. If you only ever use your keyboard with your layout, you are fine. As soon as you need to use another computer, you feel the pain. That's what happened to me when I tried this layout with the arrows in a line (I have actually tried 2 layouts like that).
- Half of the world need a right Alt (AltGr), which is used to type symbols that are not accessible directly. The Euro symbol for example, or all the accentuated characters in the european languages. I know I need AltGr...

Ah, I see. I have never had a use for AltGr, so I'm not sure I could imagine such a thing.

The closest manufactured keyboard that I've seen to my own desires in a keyboard is the KBT Race. (6-keys, arrow keys, in a small profile)


This still sets up too many problems with non-standard key sizes, but it keeps enough core functionality inside a small profile that it's worth considering in my personal position.

That being said, I wish you luck in your endeavours and I'm sorry for our miscommunication. Hopefully one day you'll have your keyboard working and I hope you're able to keep us up to date on your project. And hopefully, eventually, I'll be able to make mine.

[davkol]

This layout is horrible. I have experience with typing on Tt Meka, which has the same location of arrow keys, and it's the single most frustrating thing about the keyboard (which is awful anyway... oh wait, that makes it even worse). Why? If I miss the right Shift and hit the arrow by mistake, I'm in the middle of one of the previous lines (not necessarily the previous one, because Shift is usually held, not just pressed), thus I'm writing rubbish that isn't really easy to correct (unlike just some extra slashes). Moreover, AltGr is in a terrible spot—I'd have to strain my pinkie instead of just bending the thumb, moving whole hand would make it necessary to move the other hand to do something like AltGr+K as well, and due to the asymetry, it'd be impossible to press it with ones palm (like left Ctrl).

[CPTBadAss]

If I miss the right Shift and hit the arrow by mistake, I'm in the middle of one of the previous lines (not necessarily the previous one, because Shift is usually held, not just pressed), thus I'm writing rubbish that isn't really easy to correct (unlike just some extra slashes).

Interesting. I wonder if I'd have the same issue as davkol. I'm not sure how this layout would feel but I do know that I really like how the arrow function layer works on the Pure. You can just toggle FN + Space and the right shift, menu, right control, and right windows key become the arrows.

[aggiejy]

SpiceBar, nice job!  This is an interesting layout.  I ordered a few GH60s, one with a plate like this.  I might have to try this layout for a bit.  Like any custom layout, it will require some muscle memory training, but the new / location isn't bad.

[spiceBar]

SpiceBar, nice job!  This is an interesting layout.  I ordered a few GH60s, one with a plate like this.  I might have to try this layout for a bit.  Like any custom layout, it will require some muscle memory training, but the new / location isn't bad.

Thank you!

If you try the layout, you will find that it needs almost no adaptation time. And it will not break the muscle memory you have developed for other keyboards.

But you don't even need a GH60 to try it.

It's just the alpha block of a standard keyboard, with a few keys remapped.

Simulating the Fn layer is a little bit complicated, but if we are trying the layout on a standard keyboard we can just skip this. The controversial part of the layout is the location of the arrows, the location of the slash, and the location of the right Alt (aka AltGr on international keyboards).

It is quite easy to remap just these keys in software, using AutoHotKey on Windows, KeyRemap4MacBook on Mac OS X or console-setup on Linux.

I appreciate that people take the time to read about my suggested layout, but the criticism is most of the time harsh, and, I believe, would not stand against real use. For example if you screwed up by missing the Shift key and you have left your finger on something else, you have a wonderful shortcut called Ctrl-Z to undo the mess... What I read from this is: "if I screw up on the standard layout, it's my fault. If I screw up on your layout, it's your fault". Cute.

It's a little bit like the various flavors of Cherry MX switches: if you have only read about them, don't expect to know how they feel in reality.

I'm wondering how many of you are interested in trying this layout on their standard keyboards.

[czarek]

Why are you guys so desperate about arrows? I use them so rarely that having them on separate layer like in HHKB doesn't make any difference.
Just get used to Vim and Vimium (plugin for chrome) and forget about arrows

[Niomosy]

While an interesting layout, not very useful to Unix/Linux users.

/? is missing.  `~ is missing.  I use these daily.  Arrows aren't a huge consideration for me whereas others might find them important.

It's probably why there are several 60% keyboards.  You can't have everything in such a layout so you're going to have to make design decisions on what to sacrifice to a secondary layer.