Mouse settings question.

[Emospence]

Should one use their mouse's native settings and adjust sensitivity in Windows, or set Windows sensitivity to 6/11 and adjust DPI?

[The_Ed]

Always leave Windows at 6/11 (which is 1:1), then adjust your DPI within your mouse. That way there will be no rounding errors or acceleration from Windows's formulas.

[Emospence]

What if the mouse's DPI steps are large?

I'm talking about normal usage and not in game, btw.

[vun]

With normal mouse use it doesn't matter, you can set it any way you like. Keeping windows settings at 6/11 is only important if you want total accuracy in precision games.
For normal use just use whatever settings that feel right.

[Bullveyr]

Yea, for normal usage a setting below 6/11 isn't a problem.

[The_Ed]

What if the mouse's DPI steps are large?

I'm talking about normal usage and not in game, btw.

How about you change the DPI steps to something more comfortable then? Just open up the software and set them to what you like.

With normal mouse use it doesn't matter, you can set it any way you like. Keeping windows settings at 6/11 is only important if you want total accuracy in precision games.
For normal use just use whatever settings that feel right.

Yea, for normal usage a setting below 6/11 isn't a problem.

It IS a problem for normal usage if Windows isn't set to 6/11... Mouse tracking is horrible and you can accidentally click an adjacent link or close a window you were trying to maximize and etc. ALWAYS leave Windows at 6/11 (which is 1:1), then adjust your DPI within your mouse. That way there will be no rounding errors or acceleration from Windows's formulas.

[vun]

It IS a problem for normal usage if Windows isn't set to 6/11... Mouse tracking is horrible and you can accidentally click an adjacent link or close a window you were trying to maximize and etc. ALWAYS leave Windows at 6/11 (which is 1:1), then adjust your DPI within your mouse. That way there will be no rounding errors or acceleration from Windows's formulas.

No it's not. It might be a problem for you, but most people won't notice it at all if it's not at 6/11, and you can't set the dpi steps yourself on most optical mice. The Abyssus for instance goes straight from 450 to 1800, if you want something inbetween you're gonna have to mess with the windows settings.

[The_Ed]

It IS a problem for normal usage if Windows isn't set to 6/11... Mouse tracking is horrible and you can accidentally click an adjacent link or close a window you were trying to maximize and etc. ALWAYS leave Windows at 6/11 (which is 1:1), then adjust your DPI within your mouse. That way there will be no rounding errors or acceleration from Windows's formulas.

No it's not. It might be a problem for you, but most people won't notice it at all if it's not at 6/11, and you can't set the dpi steps yourself on most optical mice. The Abyssus for instance goes straight from 450 to 1800, if you want something inbetween you're gonna have to mess with the windows settings.

On every mouse I have bought for the past however many years I could change the DPI steps to whatever I wanted. And who the **** would buy a $50 3-button mouse that doesn't allow you to program DPI levels like the razer abyssus? That's your own damn fault if you did.

EDIT: Oh and since the abyssus is ambidextrous it wouldn't be comfortable as well.

[vun]

It IS a problem for normal usage if Windows isn't set to 6/11... Mouse tracking is horrible and you can accidentally click an adjacent link or close a window you were trying to maximize and etc. ALWAYS leave Windows at 6/11 (which is 1:1), then adjust your DPI within your mouse. That way there will be no rounding errors or acceleration from Windows's formulas.

No it's not. It might be a problem for you, but most people won't notice it at all if it's not at 6/11, and you can't set the dpi steps yourself on most optical mice. The Abyssus for instance goes straight from 450 to 1800, if you want something inbetween you're gonna have to mess with the windows settings.

On every mouse I have bought for the past however many years I could change the DPI steps to whatever I wanted. And who the **** would buy a $50 3-button mouse that doesn't allow you to program DPI levels like the razer abyssus? That's your own damn fault if you did.

Then you've probably only owned laser mice, optical sensors generally just have a few pre-determined dpi steps. If software allows you to set it to whatever you want, like Synapse with the DA, then it's most likely just setting it to the closest dpi and messing with the sensitivity to simulate the desired dpi.

[whiteduck]

It IS a problem for normal usage if Windows isn't set to 6/11... Mouse tracking is horrible and you can accidentally click an adjacent link or close a window you were trying to maximize and etc. ALWAYS leave Windows at 6/11 (which is 1:1), then adjust your DPI within your mouse. That way there will be no rounding errors or acceleration from Windows's formulas.

No it's not. It might be a problem for you, but most people won't notice it at all if it's not at 6/11, and you can't set the dpi steps yourself on most optical mice. The Abyssus for instance goes straight from 450 to 1800, if you want something inbetween you're gonna have to mess with the windows settings.

On every mouse I have bought for the past however many years I could change the DPI steps to whatever I wanted. And who the **** would buy a $50 3-button mouse that doesn't allow you to program DPI levels like the razer abyssus? That's your own damn fault if you did.

EDIT: Oh and since the abyssus is ambidextrous it wouldn't be comfortable as well.

Lol!!!

[The_Ed]

It IS a problem for normal usage if Windows isn't set to 6/11... Mouse tracking is horrible and you can accidentally click an adjacent link or close a window you were trying to maximize and etc. ALWAYS leave Windows at 6/11 (which is 1:1), then adjust your DPI within your mouse. That way there will be no rounding errors or acceleration from Windows's formulas.

No it's not. It might be a problem for you, but most people won't notice it at all if it's not at 6/11, and you can't set the dpi steps yourself on most optical mice. The Abyssus for instance goes straight from 450 to 1800, if you want something inbetween you're gonna have to mess with the windows settings.

On every mouse I have bought for the past however many years I could change the DPI steps to whatever I wanted. And who the **** would buy a $50 3-button mouse that doesn't allow you to program DPI levels like the razer abyssus? That's your own damn fault if you did.

Then you've probably only owned laser mice, optical sensors generally just have a few pre-determined dpi steps. If software allows you to set it to whatever you want, like Synapse with the DA, then it's most likely just setting it to the closest dpi and messing with the sensitivity to simulate the desired dpi.

Nope, opticals as well from multiple brands with adjustable DPI steps. I have preferred laser in the last few years though. And even if you're right on that simulation thing, it is still much better than changing the sensitivity in windows.

[Grim Fandango]

Using 6/11 windows sensitivity is best in precision games. The last thing you want is that you can not make a shot because your mouse simply skipped too many pixels, which is what can happen if you have it set too high. If you have it too low on the other hand, other annoying things can happen. Google it.

You can just use a decent base sensitivity that is somewhere close to the sensitivity that you like in games. It does not have to be perfect. Settling for 400, 500, or 800 DPi is fine since you can simply change the sensitivity in-game to fine-tune it to your exact preference. For example , in Counter Strike GO I use 500 DPI, Windows mouse setting 6/11, ingame sensitivity 1.75. Among pro players, settings of 400-600 DPI with in-game sensitivities ranging from 1.5 to 3 are very common, giving them a fairly low sensitivity compared to most players. Both current (f0rest) and old (Spawn) top competitors had settings like these. They practically all use windows settings 6/11 as well though with some exceptions. As always , it remains more about skill than hardware or settings.

In response to the comment that ambidextrous mice can not be comfortable. Ambidextrous mice can be quite comfortable, and there are tons of people who prefer this classic no frills shape over any other, myself included. Even among the top in competitive gaming in both RTS and FPS it is still the most popular shape. With mice with shapes like the Xai, Kana, intellimouse, wheelmouse optical, AM and FK still being the most common.

[domoaligato]

6/11 with enhance pointer precision off. adjust mouse dpi with the mouse software. if only larger steps then adjust the ingame settings slightly to make the smaller fine tuning required.
do not use acceleration or any enhancement features like mouse smoothing.
download mouse fix from here to fully disable acceleration
http://donewmouseaccel.blogspot.com/2010/04/markc-mouse-acceleration-fix-builder.html

for a further explantion on why you should use 6/11 in the control panel....

copyed from the link below... read the entire page. you will get a much better understanding of how to tune your mouse for fps gaming.
http://www.overclock.net/t/173255/cs-s-mouse-optimization-guide

When I see people list their mouse settings, many players are putting themselves at a big disadvantage. Windows has a slider for setting pointer speed, but that doesn't mean gamers should use it. The reason is that changing a setting here can in no way make up for the dpi (resolution in counts per inch) a mouse has or doesn't have. Increasing the pointer speed even one notch, will make your cursor skip pixels. Losing pixel accuracy is not worth it when sensitivity is adjustable in-game. Lowering the setting here, throws away dpi from the mouse forcing you to use a use a higher, less precise sensitivity in-game.

 At the highest setting, the cursor goes two pixels for each count. If you open up MS Paint, use the pencil tool, swing the mouse around to make circle patterns and notice how terribly notchy the edges are. This is not normal aliasing if you have the wrong settings in mouse properties it will make easily visible notches, not jaggies, it will look like teeth from a saw blade or something else bad. This is not the same as the normal stair steps on the edges of non antialiased graphics.

 On the other hand, if you reduce the pointer speed setting, even by one notch, you get two different mouse sensitivities and your cursor will move, slowly to the right, and faster to the left. This is probably even worse than raising it, so KEEP THIS ON DEFAULT!! The default setting is the 6th notch in the middle and it wont interpolate or filter your mouse inputs, so you get the dpi your mouse is advertised. This may take some getting used to but it's worth it, you need to live with it if you do not want your per pixel targeting or sane mouse response compromised.

[vun]

OP has stated that this is for general computer use and not for gaming.

Also I would like to point out that acceleration is only negative when it is inherent in the sensor or software, some prefer a bit of acceleration in order to do 180s quicker while still keeping low sens for aiming.

[The_Ed]

A lachesis is the only ambidextrous mouse I ever bought, I promptly gave that to my Dad.

In-game sensitivity is also an issue. I always set it to 0 or 1 (depending on the game) to get 1:1 movement, and crank up the DPI in the mouse.

"enhance pointer precision" should be turned off as well or your pointer will drift to the upper left corner of your screen if you make circles (try it).

[domoaligato]

OP has stated that this is for general computer use and not for gaming.

Also I would like to point out that acceleration is only negative when it is inherent in the sensor or software, some prefer a bit of acceleration in order to do 180s quicker while still keeping low sens for aiming.

This doesn't apply to only games.
The ocn example uses ms paint to show pixel skipping. Even for general use 6/11 is best. Mouse acceleration in photoshop, cad, or any other application that you need precision is bad. As well as pixel skipping.


OP what mouse do you own?

[vun]

OP has stated that this is for general computer use and not for gaming.

Also I would like to point out that acceleration is only negative when it is inherent in the sensor or software, some prefer a bit of acceleration in order to do 180s quicker while still keeping low sens for aiming.

This doesn't apply to only games.
The ocn example uses ms paint to show pixel skipping. Even for general use 6/11 is best. Mouse acceleration in photoshop, cad, or any other application that you need precision is bad. As well as pixel skipping.


OP what mouse do you own?

True, but in something like photoshop you have all the time you need to get things right, in games you need to get a precise action off faster than your opponent often. Obviously more precision is always better, but in many applications it might not be worth the compromise needed to retain that precision.

edit;
And I've done quite a bit of work in photoshop and various 3D applications, although I switched to a tablet for that some time ago and if you're really doing work that's important enough to warrant that precision then I would highly recommend a tablet.

[domoaligato]

if the op posts he has a crap mouse(example: the mouse that came with my dell desktop ) ) I would suggest to just go buy a good mouse. /thread

[vun]

if the op posts he has a crap mouse(example: the mouse that came with my dell desktop ) ) I would suggest to just go buy a good mouse. /thread

He recently purchased a Zowie, FK I think, I'd imagine that's the one relevant to this and not his work mouse.

[domoaligato]

Red:- 450 DPI
Purple:- 1150 DPI
Blue:- 2300 DPI

Red: FPS
Purple: RTS
Blue: General Usage

polling interval:
Hold front-left side button:- 1000 Hz
Hold back-left side button:- 500 Hz
Hold back-left & front-left side button:- 125 Hz

Out of the box the mouse is set up for for the maximum 1000Hz polling rate. try lowering it to 500hz or 125hz for desktop usage.

[Grim Fandango]

A lachesis is the only ambidextrous mouse I ever bought, I promptly gave that to my Dad.

In-game sensitivity is also an issue. I always set it to 0 or 1 (depending on the game) to get 1:1 movement, and crank up the DPI in the mouse.

"enhance pointer precision" should be turned off as well or your pointer will drift to the upper left corner of your screen if you make circles (try it).

So the shape did not work for you. Seems a little odd to me to then just assume that it can not be comfortable for anyone. We all have our own anatomy, playstyles and habits, and just going by how many people use these mice, I think it is safe to say that there are plenty of people who do like this shape.

In game sensitivity is not an issue. Not in the sense that even at the highest level of competition in-game sensitivity typically differs from one player to the next (for all popular competitive FPS as far as I know). If it is viable among the world's best, then it is viable for everyone. But it depends on the game, since in theory at least, every individual game could introduce issues in using its sensitivity settings. In CS:GO you can check everything with mousemovement-recorder and similar analysis tools and you will find that it does not matter.   Among modern FPS , I can not really think of one game where ingame sensitivity posed a real problem. And setting it to 0 or 1 is not a possibility in many games. At 0 you might not have a high enough DPI to adjust properly. At 1 the sensitivity will be too high even when using your lowest DPI option. In competitive gaming there is no one who goes by this rule, so I am not sure where this comes from. Would like to know more about it if you have any info. Even if it is commonly ignored, there might be something to it I do not know about, so any link or reference would be helpful.

[The_Ed]

Ambidextrous mice are not ergonomically shaped, but I'm not gonna argue on that subject.

Games usually come with a 0-10 or 1-10 sensitivity slider. Thus 0 or 1 gets me 1:1 movement in-game.

[domoaligato]

Exactly... I use 1 in csgo with 6/11 = 1
I use the default on my sensei which is 1157 dpi

[vun]

Ambidextrous mice are not ergonomically shaped, but I'm not gonna argue on that subject.

Games usually come with a 0-10 or 1-10 sensitivity slider. Thus 0 or 1 gets me 1:1 movement in-game.

Actually for some games that point is at or around the midway mark, for SC2 it's 51% or 52%.

Also, there is no "ergonomic" shape, there are some shapes that feel more natural and put less strain on some parts, but using the same shape for too long is still bad no matter how "ergonomic" you consider it. You're probably better off switching between different shapes every now and then.

[The_Ed]

Ambidextrous mice are not ergonomically shaped, but I'm not gonna argue on that subject.

Games usually come with a 0-10 or 1-10 sensitivity slider. Thus 0 or 1 gets me 1:1 movement in-game.

Actually for some games that point is at or around the midway mark, for SC2 it's 51% or 52%.

Also, there is no "ergonomic" shape, there are some shapes that feel more natural and put less strain on some parts, but using the same shape for too long is still bad no matter how "ergonomic" you consider it. You're probably better off switching between different shapes every now and then.

I don't play ****ing starcraft... In the games I play 0 or 1 is 1:1, so that's what I set it to. And I'll use whatever feels comfortable, and in NO WAY is that bad for me.

[Emospence]

OP has stated that this is for general computer use and not for gaming.

Also I would like to point out that acceleration is only negative when it is inherent in the sensor or software, some prefer a bit of acceleration in order to do 180s quicker while still keeping low sens for aiming.

This doesn't apply to only games.
The ocn example uses ms paint to show pixel skipping. Even for general use 6/11 is best. Mouse acceleration in photoshop, cad, or any other application that you need precision is bad. As well as pixel skipping.


OP what mouse do you own?

An FK for home and G400 for work.

[Bullveyr]

With normal mouse use it doesn't matter, you can set it any way you like. Keeping windows settings at 6/11 is only important if you want total accuracy in precision games.
For normal use just use whatever settings that feel right.

Yea, for normal usage a setting below 6/11 isn't a problem.

It IS a problem for normal usage if Windows isn't set to 6/11... Mouse tracking is horrible and you can accidentally click an adjacent link or close a window you were trying to maximize and etc. ALWAYS leave Windows at 6/11 (which is 1:1), then adjust your DPI within your mouse. That way there will be no rounding errors or acceleration from Windows's formulas.

For normal desktop usage where you don't need that much accuracy or precise fast movements it doesn't cause a problem and is imho certainly preferable over being forced to use a sensitivity you don't like (below 6/11 ofc, above indeed sucks).
Off course you should first try if your mouse has a CPI setting that works well for you with 6/11 but often you don't have that and sensitivity sliders in mouse drivers don't really work differently that Windows.

Games usually come with a 0-10 or 1-10 sensitivity slider. Thus 0 or 1 gets me 1:1 movement in-game.

May I ask what you consider 1:1 movement ingame?
Do you mean that 1 count from the mouse translates to the smallest movement the game knows or that it never results in "rounding errors"?

Neither is necessarily the case.

In most games those calculation errors are so small that they don't matter in the real world anyway.
In the Q3 Engine for example (afaik it's the same for CS1.6 or Source Engine) the minimal movement (rotation) is 360/65536 = 0.00549°.

Exactly... I use 1 in csgo with 6/11 = 1
I use the default on my sensei which is 1157 dpi

The Sensei defaults to 1157 CPI?
That is not a native sensor CPI level.

[vun]

With normal mouse use it doesn't matter, you can set it any way you like. Keeping windows settings at 6/11 is only important if you want total accuracy in precision games.
For normal use just use whatever settings that feel right.

Yea, for normal usage a setting below 6/11 isn't a problem.

It IS a problem for normal usage if Windows isn't set to 6/11... Mouse tracking is horrible and you can accidentally click an adjacent link or close a window you were trying to maximize and etc. ALWAYS leave Windows at 6/11 (which is 1:1), then adjust your DPI within your mouse. That way there will be no rounding errors or acceleration from Windows's formulas.

For normal desktop usage where you don't need that much accuracy or precise fast movements it doesn't cause a problem and is imho certainly preferable over being forced to use a sensitivity you don't like (below 6/11 ofc, above indeed sucks).
Off course you should first try if your mouse has a CPI setting that works well for you with 6/11 but often you don't have that and sensitivity sliders in mouse drivers don't really work differently that Windows.

Games usually come with a 0-10 or 1-10 sensitivity slider. Thus 0 or 1 gets me 1:1 movement in-game.

May I ask what you consider 1:1 movement ingame?
Do you mean that 1 count from the mouse translates to the smallest movement the game knows or that it never results in "rounding errors"?

Neither is necessarily the case.

In most games those calculation errors are so small that they don't matter in the real world anyway.
In the Q3 Engine for example (afaik it's the same for CS1.6 or Source Engine) the minimal movement (rotation) is 360/65536 = 0.00549°.

Exactly... I use 1 in csgo with 6/11 = 1
I use the default on my sensei which is 1157 dpi

The Sensei defaults to 1157 CPI?
That is not a native sensor CPI level.

But the sensei is weird, it's got a 9500 but it's got a processor or something that supposedly gets it up to 11k+ dpi

Can't remember the details, but short story is the Sensei is a weird one and who the **** needs 11k dpi

[Grim Fandango]

Seems that some people in this thread mention things that are nowhere near common practice, but refuse to explain why or refer to any source that does.

Also, the idea that an ambidextrous mouse shape can not be comfortable is ridiculous.

I am done with this thread. This is not the kind of discussion you can learn anything from, with people parroting something they heard somewhere rather than providing reasons or at the very least looking at what is common practice among serious players.

[Bullveyr]

@vun

Yes, Sensei can do that via MCU but it's BS, upscaling the sensor CPI doesn't result in more information. It's also pretty useless because upping the ingame sensitivity does a better job anyway.
It's a similar story with the non-native CPI steps below the sensors max. CPI but at least there is some usefulness: Fine tuning sensitivity in an environment which doesn't have other options or if you use 2 CPI levels ingame (also for fine tuning).

@Grim Fandango

To what are you referring exactly?

[vun]

@vun

Yes, Sensei can do that via MCU but it's BS, upscaling the sensor CPI doesn't result in more information. It's also pretty useless because upping the ingame sensitivity does a better job anyway.
It's a similar story with the non-native CPI steps below the sensors max. CPI but at least there is some usefulness: Fine tuning sensitivity in an environment which doesn't have other options or if you use 2 CPI levels ingame (also for fine tuning).

@Grim Fandango

To what are you referring exactly?

Yeah that's why I don't know too much about it, I pretty much took one glance at the marketing fluff and dismissed the whole dpi thing as BS.
Although I do think he's right about the default dpi on it, I can't remember exactly but I think mine was set to that, too.

[domoaligato]

edit: it is not worth it. I know how to configure my mouse. unsubscribing to this thread.